[USMA:26453] Irrational v. rational metric sizing (implementation)
The HARD fact is promoting 'hard metric usage' while converting ffu's into metric sizes or vice versa. The right approach shall be the *soft BUT rationalised conversion* with HARD implementation tools i.e. teaching metric at ground realities (the school/college going children house wives) if intention is to make METRIC programe a success story! I am sure US can do it. Brij Bhushan Vij [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aa Nau Bhadra Kritvo Yantu Vishwatah -Rg Veda. *The New Calendar Rhyme* Thirty days in July, September: April, June, November, December; All the rest have thirty-one; accepting February alone: Which hath but twenty-nine, to be (in) fine; Till leap year gives the whole week READY: Is it not time to MODIFY or change to make it perennial, Oh Daddy! And make the calendar work with Leap Week Rule! * * * * From: Han Maenen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [USMA:26452] Irrationa v. rational metric sizing. Was: Re: Re: Kraft plans to cut snack sizes Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 20:05:51 +0200 I fully agree with Marcus. Irrational metric sizes will fire opposition to metric. And in metric countries such sizes would make it only too easy to confuse customers. NO to soft metric, irrational metric packaging only for a limited time until machinery has been written of; then while replacing it, change to hard metric sizes. Under ifp in the past all sizes were rational; in metric countries all sizes are rational, except on some US imports. I surely do not want to see our shops flooded with hard ifp sizes expressed in soft metric. 0.946 L of milk, 3.79 L of paint, 341 g of meat, 454 g of cookies etc.etc. The mere thought makes me shudder. These sizes are all hard metric here.Soft metric is a Troyan horse! However, the Danish cookie producer Ripensa has changed to hard metric sizes recently. They used to size like 1 LB (454 g); now that has become 500 g, no ifp attached anymore. There is no advantage in the long run in having soft metric sizes. These sizes are also used as arguments by the BWMA, F2M and the likes. Just see what the BWMA stated on July 30 about 473 mL sizes as opposed to US pint ones.(see my message USMA 26431. Han - Original Message - From: Ma Be [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 2003-07-13 7:38 Subject: [USMA:26308] Re: Kraft plans to cut snack sizes In addition, actually, the real danger of totally deregulating rational sizes is for US powerful industries to market stupid sizes of the ilch of 591 mL, 341 mL, 454 g and other idiocies. If these become *THE norm* among competitors what we will witness is a hidden win from ifp companies to impose its mediocrity of *rational* ifp sizes onto the metric public. This would evidently be a complete disaster as, guess what(?), their next strategy to counteract the whiners would be: Oh, you don't like 454 g? Wonderful, please let me make it simple then for you, how about you allow me to market it to you as a nice, round, easy 1 lb??? A resounding NO! I would NEVER fall for that or allow that to happen. Never, never, N-E-V-E-R!!! And there is NO rational argument in the world that would EVER convince me that there is wisdom (SIC) in using such ridiculous package sizes! Alas... Marcus _ Attention NRIs. Send money home. http://server1.msn.co.in/msnleads/citibankrca/citibankrca2.asp?type=txt Do it in a jiffy!
[USMA:26455] Re: A trip to the vet: a study in WOMBAT nihilism
As I gassed up my car last night, I thought: if WOMBAT is supposed to be so great, why are the gallons divided decimally? Why doesn't the pump read out in gallons, quarts, pints, fluid ounces, and minims? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/07/28 Mon PM 09:09:34 EDT To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [USMA:26449] A trip to the vet: a study in WOMBAT nihilism Tonight we took our 16 month old cat, Tiger, to the vet for her yearly shots. Aside from the fact that she nearly took the doctor out in the process of getting them (this cat does NOT like going to the vet), I noted with dismay how she was weighed. The scale is electronic, reads in decimal, and has a switch that changes between lb and kg. Despite the fact that medicines are dosed by kg, the vet's office always weighs in pounds for the benefit of the unwashed. I asked to have her weight in kg first. 4.16. Then the girl moved the switch to lb. 9.04. Nine pounds, four ounces, she said. $%^%$%^%#@@*!?#**$ I asked the vet about it. Oh, that's nine pounds, four ounces, he said. Wonder what he does when the weight shows 9.27 lb. Nine pounds, 27 ounces? I doubt it. The Dumbing Down of America proceeds apace. They don't even know the system they claim is familiar to them. Maybe we need a scale that weighs in vulgar fractions, like the old stock market figures. Carleton MacDonald A HREF=www.buzzflash.comwww.buzzflash.com/A Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA 432-694-6208 [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two cardinal sins, from which all the others spring: impatience and laziness. ---Franz Kafka Tonight we took our 16 month old cat, Tiger, to the vet for her yearly shots. Aside from the fact that she nearly took the doctor out in the process of getting them (this cat does NOT like going to the vet), I noted with dismay how she was weighed. The scale is electronic, reads in decimal, and has a switch that changes between lb and kg. Despite the fact that medicines are dosed by kg, the vet's office always weighs in pounds for the benefit of the unwashed. I asked to have her weight in kg first. 4.16. Then the girl moved the switch to lb. 9.04. "Nine pounds, four ounces," she said. $%^%$%^%#@@*!?#**$ I asked the vet about it. "Oh, that's nine pounds, four ounces," he said. Wonder what he does when the weight shows 9.27 lb. "Nine pounds, 27 ounces?" I doubt it. The Dumbing Down of America proceeds apace. They don't even know the system they claim is familiar to them. Maybe we need a scale that weighs in vulgar fractions, like the old stock market figures. Carleton MacDonald www.buzzflash.com
[USMA:26456] Fuel in the US was Re: Re: A trip to the vet: a study in WOMBAT nihilism
Speaking of that...does anyone know what the whole 9/10ths thing is about with fuel prices in the US? -- Original Message --- From: Paul Trusten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:07:33 -0400 Subject: [USMA:26455] Re: A trip to the vet: a study in WOMBAT nihilism As I gassed up my car last night, I thought: if WOMBAT is supposed to be so great, why are the gallons divided decimally? Why doesn't the pump read out in gallons, quarts, pints, fluid ounces, and minims? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/07/28 Mon PM 09:09:34 EDT To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [USMA:26449] A trip to the vet: a study in WOMBAT nihilism Tonight we took our 16 month old cat, Tiger, to the vet for her yearly shots. Aside from the fact that she nearly took the doctor out in the process of getting them (this cat does NOT like going to the vet), I noted with dismay how she was weighed. The scale is electronic, reads in decimal, and has a switch that changes between lb and kg. Despite the fact that medicines are dosed by kg, the vet's office always weighs in pounds for the benefit of the unwashed. I asked to have her weight in kg first. 4.16. Then the girl moved the switch to lb. 9.04. Nine pounds, four ounces, she said. $%^%$%^%#@@*!?#**$ I asked the vet about it. Oh, that's nine pounds, four ounces, he said. Wonder what he does when the weight shows 9.27 lb. Nine pounds, 27 ounces? I doubt it. The Dumbing Down of America proceeds apace. They don't even know the system they claim is familiar to them. Maybe we need a scale that weighs in vulgar fractions, like the old stock market figures. Carleton MacDonald A HREF=www.buzzflash.comwww.buzzflash.com/A Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA 432-694-6208 [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two cardinal sins, from which all the others spring: impatience and laziness. ---Franz Kafka --- End of Original Message ---
[USMA:26457] RE: Fuel in the US
Brian White wrote: Speaking of that...does anyone know what the whole 9/10ths thing is about with fuel prices in the US? It's what I've always called the department store pricing syndrome. A department store will price something at $99.98 or $99.99, leading many people (including my wife) to think of the price as being not much more than $90. If a competitor priced the same item at $100.00, and it was something I needed, I would buy from the competitor in appreciation of their honesty -- and I would let them know that. (Although if another competitor offered the same item for, say, $85.00 [or even $84.99], I'd do the rational thing and buy from them.) Gas stations are, of course, selling to the same people as the department stores. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator]
[USMA:26458] RE: Fuel in the US
Thanks Bill, but if I remember right there were specific reasons for it related to taxes or something of the sort. It's definately a legacy thing completely unrelated to the (very annoying) habit of labelling everything in retail X.99. There's supposedly a real reason for it, which is what I'm curious about. Anyone know? -- Original Message --- From: Bill Potts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:34:49 -0700 Subject: [USMA:26457] RE: Fuel in the US Brian White wrote: Speaking of that...does anyone know what the whole 9/10ths thing is about with fuel prices in the US? It's what I've always called the department store pricing syndrome. A department store will price something at $99.98 or $99.99, leading many people (including my wife) to think of the price as being not much more than $90. If a competitor priced the same item at $100.00, and it was something I needed, I would buy from the competitor in appreciation of their honesty -- and I would let them know that. (Although if another competitor offered the same item for, say, $85.00 [or even $84.99], I'd do the rational thing and buy from them.) Gas stations are, of course, selling to the same people as the department stores. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] --- End of Original Message ---
[USMA:26459] RE: Fuel in the US
I just did a Google search with the following argument: 9/10 gasoline pricing.One of the hits, http://www.users.qwest.net/~taaaz/AZgas.html#A%20LITTLE%20HISTORY, is a very interesting discussion of this and many other aspects of gasoline pricing and dispensing. Bill Potts, CMSRoseville, CAhttp://metric1.org [SI Navigator] -Original Message-From: Brian White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 09:40To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; U.S. Metric AssociationSubject: Re: [USMA:26457] RE: Fuel in the USThanks Bill, but if I remember right there were specific reasons for itrelated to taxes or something of the sort. It's definately a legacy thingcompletely unrelated to the (very annoying) habit of labellingeverything inretail X.99.There's supposedly a real reason for it, which is what I'm curious about.Anyone know?-- Original Message ---From: "Bill Potts" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: "U.S. Metric Association" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:34:49 -0700Subject: [USMA:26457] RE: Fuel in the US Brian White wrote: Speaking of that...does anyone know what the whole 9/10thsthing is about with fuel prices in the US? It's what I've always called the department store pricing syndrome. A department store will price something at $99.98 or $99.99, leading many people (including my wife) to think of the price as being "not much more than $90." If a competitor priced the same item at $100.00, and it was something I needed, I would buy from the competitor in appreciation of their honesty -- and I would let them know that. (Although if another competitor offered the same item for, say, $85.00 [or even $84.99], I'd do the rational thing and buy from them.) Gas stations are, of course, selling to the same people as the department stores. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator]--- End of Original Message ---
[USMA:26460] RE: Fuel in the US
I heard once that it had something to do with forcing the sale to be rung up on the register to give change. Something to do with distrust of staff I guess. cheers Baron Carter -Original Message- From: Brian White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 29 July, 2003 11:40 To: U.S. Metric Association Subject: [USMA:26458] RE: Fuel in the US Thanks Bill, but if I remember right there were specific reasons for it related to taxes or something of the sort. It's definately a legacy thing completely unrelated to the (very annoying) habit of labelling everything in retail X.99. There's supposedly a real reason for it, which is what I'm curious about. Anyone know? -- Original Message --- From: Bill Potts [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 09:34:49 -0700 Subject: [USMA:26457] RE: Fuel in the US Brian White wrote: Speaking of that...does anyone know what the whole 9/10ths thing is about with fuel prices in the US? It's what I've always called the department store pricing syndrome. A department store will price something at $99.98 or $99.99, leading many people (including my wife) to think of the price as being not much more than $90. If a competitor priced the same item at $100.00, and it was something I needed, I would buy from the competitor in appreciation of their honesty -- and I would let them know that. (Although if another competitor offered the same item for, say, $85.00 [or even $84.99], I'd do the rational thing and buy from them.) Gas stations are, of course, selling to the same people as the department stores. Bill Potts, CMS Roseville, CA http://metric1.org [SI Navigator] --- End of Original Message ---
[USMA:26461] Re: Fuel in the US was Re: Re: A trip to the vet: a study in WOMBAT nihilism
Psychology. Pricing at the smaller amount per unit looks good to the consumer. From: Brian White [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/07/29 Tue PM 12:16:42 EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Fuel in the US was Re: [USMA:26455] Re: A trip to the vet: a study in WOMBAT nihilism Speaking of that...does anyone know what the whole 9/10ths thing is about with fuel prices in the US? -- Original Message --- From: Paul Trusten [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 12:07:33 -0400 Subject: [USMA:26455] Re: A trip to the vet: a study in WOMBAT nihilism As I gassed up my car last night, I thought: if WOMBAT is supposed to be so great, why are the gallons divided decimally? Why doesn't the pump read out in gallons, quarts, pints, fluid ounces, and minims? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/07/28 Mon PM 09:09:34 EDT To: U.S. Metric Association [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [USMA:26449] A trip to the vet: a study in WOMBAT nihilism Tonight we took our 16 month old cat, Tiger, to the vet for her yearly shots. Aside from the fact that she nearly took the doctor out in the process of getting them (this cat does NOT like going to the vet), I noted with dismay how she was weighed. The scale is electronic, reads in decimal, and has a switch that changes between lb and kg. Despite the fact that medicines are dosed by kg, the vet's office always weighs in pounds for the benefit of the unwashed. I asked to have her weight in kg first. 4.16. Then the girl moved the switch to lb. 9.04. Nine pounds, four ounces, she said. $%^%$%^%#@@*!?#**$ I asked the vet about it. Oh, that's nine pounds, four ounces, he said. Wonder what he does when the weight shows 9.27 lb. Nine pounds, 27 ounces? I doubt it. The Dumbing Down of America proceeds apace. They don't even know the system they claim is familiar to them. Maybe we need a scale that weighs in vulgar fractions, like the old stock market figures. Carleton MacDonald A HREF=www.buzzflash.comwww.buzzflash.com/A Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA 432-694-6208 [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two cardinal sins, from which all the others spring: impatience and laziness. ---Franz Kafka --- End of Original Message --- Paul Trusten, R.Ph. 3609 Caldera Blvd, Apt. 122 Midland TX 79707-2872 USA 432-694-6208 [EMAIL PROTECTED] There are two cardinal sins, from which all the others spring: impatience and laziness. ---Franz Kafka
[USMA:26464] Re: A trip to the vet: a study in WOMBAT nihilism
Dear Paul, on 2003-07-30 02.07, Paul Trusten at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I gassed up my car last night, I thought: if WOMBAT is supposed to be so great, why are the gallons divided decimally? Why doesn't the pump read out in gallons, quarts, pints, fluid ounces, and minims? You might not have been reading this list when we discussed this issue a little while ago. You might be interested in a response that I made to Brij. Cheers, Pat Naughtin Geelong, Australia Dear Brij and All, Why is it that the USA is the last nation on Earth to change to the metric system? It can't be because the people of the USA are not capable of making this change, as the people of the USA have demonstrated at least their equality, and often their outright leadership in so many areas of human endeavour. It's hard to believe that they are not capable of catching up with the rest of the metricated world. I was pondering this issue when someone brought some (USA) football statistics to my attention, and at the same time I received a note from you that read, in part: 'No wonder why US has lagged some interested sources gained GROUND 'to slow move for Metrication'. There could be, as it has been TEN-links in the chain to get a 'break down', any where ANYTIME!' I then began to think that, maybe, the success of the USA with decimal measures was the very thing that was holding back their metric progress. This sounds like an odd argument, so let me explain. In the USA, it has long been the tradition to divide measuring units decimally. For example, decimal pounds, decimal inches, decimal feet, decimal yards, decimal chains, and decimal miles are all used regularly in the USA. Here are some examples I am indebted to several members of the USMA mailing list for the thoughts behind some of these stories. 1 After studying old measures for a day or two, a visitor from Europe visited a butcher to buy some meat. He asked for eight ounces, but his request caused great discussions and consultation between the counter staff and eventually the manager suggested that the customer restate his order as 'half a pound'. The manager explained that the scales were calibrated in pounds and decimal fractions of a pound. The European then asked an assistant for 'half a pound' and was told, 'Why didn't you ask for that in the first place?' He had, of course, but the assistant seemed unaware that 'eight ounces' and 'half a pound' were the same amount. The butcher's staff appeared not to know the number of ounces in a pound. 2 I've seen many uses of decimal inches, especially in the engineering trades, and I know that mechanical engineers have great facility in recognising seemingly odd fractions like 0.5625 as 9/16ths of an inch. Mechanical engineers also adopted some of the metric prefixes; for example, the 'thou' (meaning one thousandth of an inch) has often been referred to as a 'mil' (meaning a milli-inch, which also means one thousandth of an inch). 3 When a friend bought a house in Utah, he had a survey done. The drawings made by the surveyor were all in feet with a resolution of 0.01 feet (about 3 mm). My friend guessed that the surveyor was using a 'survey' foot to measure the land. The USA has two different definitions of a foot. There is the common foot used in schools, and the survey foot that is used for measuring and marking land. The common foot is usually divided into 12 inches but the survey foot is more usually divided into decimal feet for measurements smaller than a survey foot. 4 One of the key issues in (USA) football is the idea of how much ground has been gained by each play. This is expressed in yards and the statistics are expressed in decimal yards. The statistics are in yards with a precision to the nearest thousandth of a yard; an example is 7.473 yards. It would only add confusion to describe this as 7 yards 1 foot and 5 7/256ths inches. 5 Surveyors and civil engineers use decimal chains for measuring and marking large areas of land. Their chains are divided into 100 links and so the length of a farm field might be specified as 3.47 chains, which stands for 3 chains and 47 links. With decimal calculations, this can readily be dumbed down to 3 chains 10 yards 1 foot and 1/4 inch for the public. 6 Every car in the USA has an odometer that reads in decimal miles (to 1/10th of a mile). Perhaps because car odometers read tenths of miles, roadside markers are frequently marked in tenths of miles. As an example, they might give the distance to the next exit as something like 0.3 mi. 7 Odometers on bicycles are also calibrated decimally. A friend had a dual odometer that could be switched from miles to kilometres. When he switched to kilometres, he was delighted to find that the decimal numbers now meant something. He could suddenly understand that when the decimal reading showed 0.08 kilometres it meant that he had travelled 80 metres. Before he switched, when it read 0.08 miles he knew it was a small fraction of
