[USMA:53351] Re: Amber Prescription Safety Cap Vials 30 Dram, 240/case: Amazon.com: Industrial Scientific
The size refers to fluid drams (8 fluid drams to 1 fluid ounce) , not solid drams---it refers to the volume of the vial. In my day, we'd simply estimate the size of the vial vs. the size of the tablet, but I suspect today's technology would suggest a vial size based on the tablet size, sothe pharmacist or pharmacy technician can merely reach for the size suggested on the label printout. Coo-ool. Next time you get an oral solution (such as cough syrup) dispensed to you by prescription, look at the back or side of the brown bottle. You will see the ancient apothecary symbol for fluid ounce, ℥, followed by a Roman numeral. So, an eight fluid ounce bottle reads ℥ viii. Why are these currently used pharmacy products still using apothecary units, which were deprecated by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) in 1995? Refer to Fiddler On The Roof: TRADITION! Also because the container manufacturers have never been required to eliminate them. It might be expensive to change the machinery that impresses the ℥ viii instead of 240 mL, but I think times change. This is an important point, not only about metrication, which would require these containers to be denominated in milliliters only, but for consistency in medication safety. How are we going to get the U.S. public to think milliliter with regard to measuring oral liquids if we continue to show medication container sizes in legacy units of measurement? Part of the answer is that there are milliliter and fluid ounce scales on the brown bottles, and it is high time that the apothecary sizes, and fluid ounce scale be eliminated and milliliters only shown. The USP metric-only standard for drugs should apply across the board. I am sending a copy of this message to the Institute for Safe Medication Practices (ISMP) to see what is being pondered by that organization. ISMP has recommended the elimination of household measurement from healthcare at all levels, and these containers, which are designed exclusively for use in pharmacy, ought to be considered as well. If the teaspoonful and the tablespoonful are to be deprecated, then other non-metric measurement units should be thrown out as well. As far as extending metrication of healthcare in the U.S. is concerned, revamping these old-style containers are where part of the rubber meets the road. Paul Paul Trusten, Registered Pharmacist Vice President and Public Relations Director U.S. Metric Association, Inc. Midland, Texas, USA +1(432)528-7724 www.metric.org trus...@grandecom.net On Oct 27, 2013, at 7:18, Kilopascal kilopas...@cox.net wrote: http://www.amazon.com/Amber-Prescription-Safety-Vials-Dram/dp/B0026K7GG8 Paul, Why are these pill vials specified in drams and not grams? Do you refer to them by their gram capacity so you know how many 200 mg tablets of a drug will require which vial size?
[USMA:53352] the prescription container mess
This page I found from the Abundant Health company makes the muddle over oral/topical liquid prescription container sizes Abundantly clear: http://www.abundanthealth4u.com/Bottle_Sizes_s/51.htm Paul Trusten, Registered Pharmacist Vice President and Public Relations Director U.S. Metric Association, Inc. Midland, Texas, USA +1(432)528-7724 www.metric.org trus...@grandecom.net
[USMA:53353] Re: Amber Prescription Safety Cap Vials 30 Dram, 240/case: Amazon.com: Industrial Scientific
Rest assured that ℥ viii will not make me think Customary. It will make me think Huh??? It is obviously code for insiders to keep the rest of us confused. From: Paul Trusten trus...@mygrande.net To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:51 AM Subject: [USMA:53351] Re: Amber Prescription Safety Cap Vials 30 Dram, 240/case: Amazon.com: Industrial Scientific The size refers to fluid drams (8 fluid drams to 1 fluid ounce) , not solid drams---it refers to the volume of the vial. In my day, we'd simply estimate the size of the vial vs. the size of the tablet, but I suspect today's technology would suggest a vial size based on the tablet size, sothe pharmacist or pharmacy technician can merely reach for the size suggested on the label printout. Coo-ool. Next time you get an oral solution (such as cough syrup) dispensed to you by prescription, look at the back or side of the brown bottle. You will see the ancient apothecary symbol for fluid ounce, ℥, followed by a Roman numeral. So, an eight fluid ounce bottle reads ℥ viii. Why are these currently used pharmacy products still using apothecary units, which were deprecated by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) in 1995? Refer to Fiddler On The Roof: TRADITION! Also because the container manufacturers have never been required to eliminate them. It might be expensive to change the machinery that impresses the ℥ viii instead of 240 mL, but I think times change. This is an important point, not only about metrication, which would require these containers to be denominated in milliliters only, but for consistency in medication safety. How are we going to get the U.S. public to think milliliter with regard to measuring oral liquids if we continue to show medication container sizes in legacy units of measurement? Part of the answer is that there are milliliter and fluid ounce scales on the brown bottles, and it is high time that the apothecary sizes, and fluid ounce scale be eliminated and milliliters only shown. The USP metric-only standard for drugs should apply across the board. I am sending a copy of this message to the Institute for Safe Medication Practices (ISMP) to see what is being pondered by that organization. ISMP has recommended the elimination of household measurement from healthcare at all levels, and these containers, which are designed exclusively for use in pharmacy, ought to be considered as well. If the teaspoonful and the tablespoonful are to be deprecated, then other non-metric measurement units should be thrown out as well. As far as extending metrication of healthcare in the U.S. is concerned, revamping these old-style containers are where part of the rubber meets the road. Paul Paul Trusten, Registered Pharmacist Vice President and Public Relations Director U.S. Metric Association, Inc. Midland, Texas, USA +1(432)528-7724 http://www.metric.org/ trus...@grandecom.net On Oct 27, 2013, at 7:18, Kilopascal kilopas...@cox.net wrote: http://www.amazon.com/Amber-Prescription-Safety-Vials-Dram/dp/B0026K7GG8 Paul, Why are these pill vials specified in drams and not grams? Do you refer to them by their gram capacity so you know how many 200 mg tablets of a drug will require which vial size?
[USMA:53354] Re: Amber Prescription Safety Cap Vials 30 Dram, 240/case: Amazon.com: Industrial Scientific
Go spill the beans far and wide, John (grin). I am one of those insiders, and I am only too happy to shed the mystery. The symbol is no secret, and it should be laughed off the stage. My job with USMA is to help get rid of the Huh? Paul Paul Trusten, Registered Pharmacist Vice President and Public Relations Director U.S. Metric Association, Inc. Midland, Texas, USA +1(432)528-7724 www.metric.org trus...@grandecom.net On Oct 27, 2013, at 8:15, John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Rest assured that ℥ viii will not make me think Customary. It will make me think Huh??? It is obviously code for insiders to keep the rest of us confused. From: Paul Trusten trus...@mygrande.net To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:51 AM Subject: [USMA:53351] Re: Amber Prescription Safety Cap Vials 30 Dram, 240/case: Amazon.com: Industrial Scientific The size refers to fluid drams (8 fluid drams to 1 fluid ounce) , not solid drams---it refers to the volume of the vial. In my day, we'd simply estimate the size of the vial vs. the size of the tablet, but I suspect today's technology would suggest a vial size based on the tablet size, sothe pharmacist or pharmacy technician can merely reach for the size suggested on the label printout. Coo-ool. Next time you get an oral solution (such as cough syrup) dispensed to you by prescription, look at the back or side of the brown bottle. You will see the ancient apothecary symbol for fluid ounce, ℥, followed by a Roman numeral. So, an eight fluid ounce bottle reads ℥ viii. Why are these currently used pharmacy products still using apothecary units, which were deprecated by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) in 1995? Refer to Fiddler On The Roof: TRADITION! Also because the container manufacturers have never been required to eliminate them. It might be expensive to change the machinery that impresses the ℥ viii instead of 240 mL, but I think times change. This is an important point, not only about metrication, which would require these containers to be denominated in milliliters only, but for consistency in medication safety. How are we going to get the U.S. public to think milliliter with regard to measuring oral liquids if we continue to show medication container sizes in legacy units of measurement? Part of the answer is that there are milliliter and fluid ounce scales on the brown bottles, and it is high time that the apothecary sizes, and fluid ounce scale be eliminated and milliliters only shown. The USP metric-only standard for drugs should apply across the board. I am sending a copy of this message to the Institute for Safe Medication Practices (ISMP) to see what is being pondered by that organization. ISMP has recommended the elimination of household measurement from healthcare at all levels, and these containers, which are designed exclusively for use in pharmacy, ought to be considered as well. If the teaspoonful and the tablespoonful are to be deprecated, then other non-metric measurement units should be thrown out as well. As far as extending metrication of healthcare in the U.S. is concerned, revamping these old-style containers are where part of the rubber meets the road. Paul Paul Trusten, Registered Pharmacist Vice President and Public Relations Director U.S. Metric Association, Inc. Midland, Texas, USA +1(432)528-7724 http://www.metric.org/ trus...@grandecom.net On Oct 27, 2013, at 7:18, Kilopascal kilopas...@cox.net wrote: http://www.amazon.com/Amber-Prescription-Safety-Vials-Dram/dp/B0026K7GG8 Paul, Why are these pill vials specified in drams and not grams? Do you refer to them by their gram capacity so you know how many 200 mg tablets of a drug will require which vial size?
[USMA:53355] Re: State by state approach and positive response.
Mr Price. As you can see on my http://metricpioneer.com/fact-sheet - A4 is the most commonly used paper size in the world. Your computer printer paper tray has an adjustment to accommodate A4 which is a little taller and a little narrower than what you are used to. By 1975 so many countries were using A4 that it was established as an ISO standard, as well as the official United Nations document format. You say that A4 is not available, but that is not true; one may purchase A4 from Staples. I buy it by the case and sell it on MetricPioneer.com and even though one pays a little more here in the United States, I would think that pro-metric people would be happy to pay a little more just to demonstrate to others how we have become the change that we wish to see in our nation, otherwise, we are not only waiting for others to catch on, but waiting for ourselves too. How embarrassing! Also, have a look at driver licenses around the world and you will see that height is given in centimeters only, for example, you are 170 cm tall. I weight 90 kg and I am 181 cm tall. It is common to avoid unnecessarily using the decimal point when choosing an appropriate international unit. For example, I would not say that I weigh 0.09 Mg (megagrams); neither would I say that I weigh 90 000 g (grams) because it makes good common sense to avoid so many zeros. That is one of the many beautiful things about SI that we lack when using non-SI units. It is reasonably comprehensible when some astronomer says that the observable universe is estimated to be about 880 Ym (yottameters) in diameter, but it boggles the mind when some duffus says that the observable universe is estimated to be so and so many miles in diameter, giving some ridiculously large figure that give us no sense of proportion because a mile is not an appropriate unit to use for such vast distances. On the other end of the spectrum, we have appropriate units like the millimeter for measuring things like length of tardigrades, paper size, rainfall level and camera film size; micrometers for measuring things like bacteria, grains of sand, dust mites, thickness of paper, human eggs, width of human hair, mist droplets, infrared wave lengths, white blood cells, chromosomes and E. coli; nanometers for measuring things like red light wavelength, viruses, DNA and transistor gates; picometers for measuring things like glucose, X-ray wavelengths, carbon atoms, water molecules and hydrogen atoms; femtometers for measuring things like protons, neutrons, quarks and neutrinos. By the way, I show many more examples with pictures in a booklet I have for sale at Metric Pioneer - SI - An Educational Overview for Americans. As far as most US road signs being in miles, while that is unfortunate, it is not true what you say that kilometers are not available, because we do have kilometers per hour (km/h) on our speedometers and kilometers and meters on our global positioning systems when we change the setting to metric, which I did the day I bought my GPS. Your reaction to A4 surprises me; I think you would do well to do a little more research on A4 paper size. Thanks for taking the survey; I hope you share it with others. David Pearl MetricPioneer.com 503-428-4917 - Message from skywatch...@yahoo.com - Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 06:13:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Price skywatch...@yahoo.com Reply-To: Robert Price skywatch...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [USMA:53349] Re: State by state approach and positive response. To: cont...@metricpioneer.com cont...@metricpioneer.com I saw your survey regarding metric usage. I found interesting that you specified either centimeters or other for height. I know my height in meters (1.7 meters). While I would like to see the U.S. transition to the metric system I should point out that most people use feet, inches, pounds, miles, etc. To use metric units most people I know won't know what you are talking about. Road signs are still miles only, kilometers are not available. I use 8X11 letter stock paper because that is what is available. A4 stock paper is not available. If A4 was available at the same cost I would consider using it. I do wonder about that size, though, since it is not in a round metric dimension. On Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:29 AM, cont...@metricpioneer.com cont...@metricpioneer.com wrote: I agree with Edward B. David Pearl MetricPioneer.com 503-428-4917 P.S. Please take this survey (if you have not already) and pass it on to others just to get their feet wet: surveymonkey.com/s/N97FXGP - Message from edws...@gmail.com - Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 17:06:58 -0700 From: Edward Schlesinger edws...@gmail.com Reply-To: edws...@gmail.com Subject: [USMA:53348] State by state approach and positive response. To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu Hi Paul
[USMA:53356] Re: State by state approach and positive response.
Mr. Price's email contained an error. Today, letter size is taken to mean 8.5 in by 11 in, not 8x11 as he put it. Prior to President Reagan's time in office, US Government standard paper size was 8 in by 10.5 in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_%28paper_size%29 I was on active duty in the US Navy when the federal government changed its standard paper size. That was a mildly interesting drill. That was also about the time that memory typewriters appeared on the scene, which added a twist to the drill of retyping every doggone piece of Navy instructions, etc. Jim On 2013-10-27 16:20, cont...@metricpioneer.com wrote: Mr Price. As you can see on my http://metricpioneer.com/fact-sheet - A4 is the most commonly used paper size in the world. Your computer printer paper tray has an adjustment to accommodate A4 which is a little taller and a little narrower than what you are used to. By 1975 so many countries were using A4 that it was established as an ISO standard, as well as the official United Nations document format. You say that A4 is not available, but that is not true; one may purchase A4 from Staples. I buy it by the case and sell it on MetricPioneer.com and even though one pays a little more here in the United States, I would think that pro-metric people would be happy to pay a little more just to demonstrate to others how we have become the change that we wish to see in our nation, otherwise, we are not only waiting for others to catch on, but waiting for ourselves too. How embarrassing! Also, have a look at driver licenses around the world and you will see that height is given in centimeters only, for example, you are 170 cm tall. I weight 90 kg and I am 181 cm tall. It is common to avoid unnecessarily using the decimal point when choosing an appropriate international unit. For example, I would not say that I weigh 0.09 Mg (megagrams); neither would I say that I weigh 90 000 g (grams) because it makes good common sense to avoid so many zeros. That is one of the many beautiful things about SI that we lack when using non-SI units. It is reasonably comprehensible when some astronomer says that the observable universe is estimated to be about 880 Ym (yottameters) in diameter, but it boggles the mind when some duffus says that the observable universe is estimated to be so and so many miles in diameter, giving some ridiculously large figure that give us no sense of proportion because a mile is not an appropriate unit to use for such vast distances. On the other end of the spectrum, we have appropriate units like the millimeter for measuring things like length of tardigrades, paper size, rainfall level and camera film size; micrometers for measuring things like bacteria, grains of sand, dust mites, thickness of paper, human eggs, width of human hair, mist droplets, infrared wave lengths, white blood cells, chromosomes and E. coli; nanometers for measuring things like red light wavelength, viruses, DNA and transistor gates; picometers for measuring things like glucose, X-ray wavelengths, carbon atoms, water molecules and hydrogen atoms; femtometers for measuring things like protons, neutrons, quarks and neutrinos. By the way, I show many more examples with pictures in a booklet I have for sale at Metric Pioneer - SI - An Educational Overview for Americans. As far as most US road signs being in miles, while that is unfortunate, it is not true what you say that kilometers are not available, because we do have kilometers per hour (km/h) on our speedometers and kilometers and meters on our global positioning systems when we change the setting to metric, which I did the day I bought my GPS. Your reaction to A4 surprises me; I think you would do well to do a little more research on A4 paper size. Thanks for taking the survey; I hope you share it with others. David Pearl MetricPioneer.com 503-428-4917 - Message from skywatch...@yahoo.com - Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2013 06:13:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Price skywatch...@yahoo.com Reply-To: Robert Price skywatch...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [USMA:53349] Re: State by state approach and positive response. To: cont...@metricpioneer.com cont...@metricpioneer.com I saw your survey regarding metric usage. I found interesting that you specified either centimeters or other for height. I know my height in meters (1.7 meters). While I would like to see the U.S. transition to the metric system I should point out that most people use feet, inches, pounds, miles, etc. To use metric units most people I know won't know what you are talking about. Road signs are still miles only, kilometers are not available. I use 8X11 letter stock paper because that is what is available. A4 stock paper is not available. If A4 was available at the same cost I would consider using it. I do wonder about that size, though, since it is not in a round metric dimension. On Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:29 AM, cont...@metricpioneer.com
[USMA:53357] Re: Paul Trusten on Dram Vials
Paul-- You're right as always! Next time some anti-metricationist claims that people don't understand metric, only the customary system, say to that person: Tell me: How much is a dram when you measure out your cough syrup? I suspect no one but you, Paul, would have the slightest idea. I know I don't! --Martin M.
