[USMA:48240] Re: Question about US carpet sales.

[ezra . steinberg]

So, how does the UK practice of selling carpeting by the square meter square 
(if you'll pardon the pardon) with advertising residential room sizes in square 
yards? (or is it feet)? Don't consumers have to convert the square yards to 
square meters if they want to completely carpet a particular room (or set of 
rooms)? That seems rather awkward. 

And, yes, carpet is both advertised and sold exclusively using Imperial units 
(square foot, actually) here in the USA. Just as all real estate is described 
and leased or sold using those same units. 

Dark Ages over here still, I'm afraid ... 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Stephen Davis stevo.da...@btinternet.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:23:24 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48238] Question about US carpet sales. 


Are carpet lengths in the US sold by the sq yard? Of course, gasoline sales are 
still in gallons over there. 

If carpet sales are indeed still in sq yards in the US, (I suspect they are) it 
may well be worth the US government trying to metricate these two things, that 
is, sq metres for carpet sales and litres for gasoline sales, because, if the 
UK is any sort of measure, these two things may well be politically acceptable. 

Why? Well, UK traders accepted these changes virtually overnight because, to be 
quite frank, they could make more money out of them. Carpet stores and 
warehouses in the UK could legitimately charge more because a sq metre was more 
than a sq yard. In the case of gas sales (pr petrol) a litre was obviously far 
less than a gallon, allowing gas stations to exploit initial customer confusion 
and get away with charging more than what a litre was actually worth.. 

Noit certainly isn't the most moral way of introducing more metrication, 
but it sure worked over here and may well work over there too. 

It's sometimes amazing how the lure of more bucks can change attitudes. :-) 

[USMA:48252] Re: Question about US carpet sales.

[ezra . steinberg]

And now the question is ... who (by age, education, class, geography, political 
party, etc.) pays attention to which units in such an ad? 

Wish we had the data. 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:44:04 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48249] Re: Question about US carpet sales. 




I had house plans drawn up this week of my late mother’s house as part of 
putting it on the market (she passed away three months ago). A typical 
description was: 



BEDROOM 

13’5 x 1-‘ 

4.1m x 3.1m 



The total floor area was given in both square metres and square feet. 




From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Stephen Davis 
Sent: 15 July 2010 15:56 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:48246] Re: Question about US carpet sales. 




Carpet lengths in square metres but many room sizes in square feet? 





Well, yes Ezra.. welcome to a country that is mostly metric but, due to 
political pressure (mostly from the right) we won't finish the job. 





You know the story, motorways measured in kilometres but signposts in miles; 
wine and spirits in metric measures but draught beer sold in pints. 





Incidentally, I am not 100 per cent certain on this, but a lot of residential 
room sizes over here actually ARE in square metres I believe. 





As tradesmen use metric rules to measure the floorspace for a carpet anyhow, 
its not really a problem that residential room sizes are in square feet. 




- Original Message - 


From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 


To: U.S. Metric Association 


Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:50 PM 


Subject: [USMA:48240] Re: Question about US carpet sales. 





So, how does the UK practice of selling carpeting by the square meter square 
(if you'll pardon the pardon) with advertising residential room sizes in square 
yards? (or is it feet)? Don't consumers have to convert the square yards to 
square meters if they want to completely carpet a particular room (or set of 
rooms)? That seems rather awkward. 

And, yes, carpet is both advertised and sold exclusively using Imperial units 
(square foot, actually) here in the USA. Just as all real estate is described 
and leased or sold using those same units. 

Dark Ages over here still, I'm afraid ... 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Stephen Davis stevo.da...@btinternet.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:23:24 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48238] Question about US carpet sales. 


Are carpet lengths in the US sold by the sq yard? Of course, gasoline sales are 
still in gallons over there. 





If carpet sales are indeed still in sq yards in the US, (I suspect they are) it 
may well be worth the US government trying to metricate these two things, that 
is, sq metres for carpet sales and litres for gasoline sales, because, if the 
UK is any sort of measure, these two things may well be politically acceptable. 





Why? Well, UK traders accepted these changes virtually overnight because, to be 
quite frank, they could make more money out of them. Carpet stores and 
warehouses in the UK could legitimately charge more because a sq metre was more 
than a sq yard. In the case of gas sales (pr petrol) a litre was obviously far 
less than a gallon, allowing gas stations to exploit initial customer confusion 
and get away with charging more than what a litre was actually worth.. 





Noit certainly isn't the most moral way of introducing more metrication, 
but it sure worked over here and may well work over there too. 





It's sometimes amazing how the lure of more bucks can change attitudes. :-) 

[USMA:48254] Re: UK imperial road signs

[ezra . steinberg]

John: 

I wonder what exactly is meant by highway authority. 

The scope of the answer should dictate the scope of the restriction against 
using metric on signs. 
Specifically, information signs for tourists, distances to exits in tunnels, 
etc. would not seem to fall under the jurisdiction of a highway authority or, 
if by some organizational quirk it did, it should not fall under the 
restriction as spelled out in the TSRGD. 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: John Frewen-Lord j...@frewston.plus.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 7:49:59 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48253] UK imperial road signs 


Many of you will have read my somewhat sarcastic (or satiric, depending on your 
point of view!) letter to Philip Hammond (see Pat Naughtin's Metrication 
Matters 86 for the full text), regarding his proposal to phase out use of 
metric measures in the UK DoT. I have received a reply from Judith Tracey (not 
sure who she is), the text of which is as follows: 

Thank you for your letter of 9 June, addressed to Phillip Hammond, which has 
been passed to me to reply. 
I have noted the comments that you have made and with regard to the Secretary 
of State proposing to ban all metric movements [sic] from our road 
transportation, I would like to reassure you that this is not the case. 
As you are aware from previous correspondence on this subject, the use of 
metric units for traffic signs is controlled by the Traffic Signs Regulations 
and General Directions 2002 (TSRGD) (SI 2002 No. 3113); it would be unlawful 
for any highway authority to use metric units in defiance of the Regulations. 
However, with regard to dimensional traffic signs, we recently consulted on a 
package of amendment regulations to the TSRGD. That consultation closed on 24 
December 2009. These included proposals to phase out, by April 2016, all 
imperial only height and width limit traffic signs. These proposals are in 
direct response to a known problem of bridge strikes. We have considered all 
responses received and will be publishing our response to that consultation in 
the coming months. 


So - not really sure what changes, if anything. Certainly, it contributes to 
this Very British Mess - i.e. to acknowledge that metric measures are needed on 
road signs, yet to make them unlawful! 

Only in Britain 

John F-L 

[USMA:48366] Re: Metric in Malta and Sicily

[ezra . steinberg]

Thanks for the observations, Bill. 

Both French (which I know from having I lived there many years ago) and Italian 
follow the same word order when specifying a mass (for instance, 50 kg) and in 
fact the same word order as English (fifty kilograms). 

So, it's hard to see why the order would be reversed in some of the signs in 
Italy. 

Sounds like you had a fun trip! :-) 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Bill Hooper billhoope...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 2:38:11 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48365] Metric in Malta and Sicily 

Just returned from a trip to Malta and Sicily and have some observations on 
metric usage in those places. 


(Malta is an independent nation consisting of 2 or 3 main islands and a few 
others. Sicily is an island which is part of Italy, although Sicilians consider 
themselves a breed apart.) 


Most of my observations are from street and highway signs. I'm not much of a 
shopper and did not do much in stores and shops. Most things were in metric and 
quite correct. None of my observations are profound but I found them 
interesting anyhow. 




IN MALTA 


Incorrect symbol Km/h used for speed limits but correct km used for 
distances on official signs. 


Distances in metres sometimes expressed using incorrect M as the symbol and 
other times using the correct m on official signs, sometimes on two signs in 
he same location. 


Sign used 5'6 for the width of a narrow street on an official sign (with 
adjacent signs all in metric). 




IN SICILY 


Incorrect Km occasionally seen but mostly the correct km for long 
distances. 


Correct cm consistently seen for short lengths. 


Triply incorrect Kg. on a sign stating Kg. 500 for the maximum load in an 
elevator. The capital K is wrong, the period is wrong and the placing of the 
unit before the number is wrong (maybe). 


I think I understand why they use the symbol before the number; Italian, I 
learned, is one of the languages that puts the adjective after the noun in 
sentences. A mass of 500 kg can be likened to an adjective (500) and a noun 
(kilogram), resulting in kg 500. French uses the order noun-adjective, too, 
but I don't recall having seen French use of things like kg 500 instead of 
500 kg. 


Also, I don't know whether SI specifies the order or not, so maybe it's not 
wrong. 


Volume of contents of wine barrels labelled in HL for hectolitres. It should 
be hl or hL. Again, the order of number and unit were reversed from what I 
am accustomed to. One barrel was labelled HL 65 which I asked and had 
clarified represented 65 hectolitres. (That would be 6.5 kL which would also be 
6.5 cubic metres, but no sign of kL or m^2 were to be seen on any of the 
barrels.) 




IN THE AIR 


An interesting set of readings of the speed of the plane flying home showed a 
CORRECT symbol (km/h) when displayed in ENGLISH but and INCORRECT symbol 
(Km/ora) when displayed in ITALIAN. (Ora is the Italian word for hour.) 







Bill Hooper 
1810 mm tall 
Fernandina Beach, Florida, USA 


== 
SImplification Begins With SI. 
== 

[USMA:48375] Re: Electrical Standards article

[ezra . steinberg]

While almost certainly too much to hope for, redefining the kilogram in the way 
described below would also present the prefect opportunity to give 1 N.s^2/m a 
new name (and thus remove any prefix for the base definition of mass). 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Anthony O#39;conner barkatf...@ymail.com 
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 4:37:16 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48373] Electrical Standards article 



Bill, 

Check out USMA 47922 for some details on definition of the units to be proposed 
to the CGPM in 2011. 

I copied it below: 

Anthony 



- Forwarded Message  
From: Anthony O#39;conner barkatf...@ymail.com 
To: usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Wed, July 7, 2010 4:15:13 PM 
Subject: [USMA:47992] Nice BBC article that is all metric (and my show the path 
to redefining the kilogram?) 




I wonder how many USMA members are aware of what is going on with the kilogram 
and why it is important to find a new definition quickly. Presently there are 
15 units that are defined using the kilogram (8 aren't) : 
The newton, joule, pascal, watt, volt, ampere, coulomb, farad, tesla, henry, 
weber, ohm, siemens, katal and mole are defined from the kilogram either 
directly or indirectly. Only the metre, second, kelvin, candela, radian, 
steradian, lumen and lux aren't. Did I miss any? Any change to the kilogram 
changes all 15 of these units. That is not good. 

Presently, there is some work being done to fix this. I expect some major 
rearrangement of the units. For example I don't see the kilogram or the ampere 
remaining as base units. Instead, expect them to be replaced by the coulomb and 
the volt. 

Here is why: 

The coulomb is actually precisely defined. A coulomb is then equal to exactly 
6.241 509 629 152 65 × 10 18 positive elementary charges. It is expected that 
at the next CGPM a proposal will be made to define the coulomb this way and the 
coulomb can replace the ampere as a base unit. Since an ampere is defined as 
one coulomb per second and both the coulomb and second are precisely defined, 
the ampere will be precisely defined. 

The Watt-Balance Experiment 

Since the watt is equal to both the ampere volt and the newton metre per 
second, and the ampere, metre and second are precisely defines, all that needs 
be done is to precisely define either the volt or the newton. 

Experiments are being done to precisely define the volt using the Josephson 
Junction definition. Since 1990 the volt has been maintained internationally 
for practical measurement using the Josephson effect , where a conventional 
value is used for the Josephson constant , fixed by the 18th General Conference 
on Weights and Measures as: K {J-90} = 2 e / h = 0.4835979 GHz/µV. 
International Committee for Weights and Measures, or CIPM , recommended that 
this be considered the exact conventional value of the constant, denoted K 
J-90 . The CODATA 2006 value, on the other hand, is K J = (483 597.891±0.012) × 
10 9 Hz/V [ 2 ] 

This in effect defines the volt relative to the second, a precisely defined SI 
unit. 

Once the value of K is precisely resolved to the satisfaction of the 
researchers, it can be used define the volt and make the volt a base unit. Once 
this is done it will be easy to define the newton as being one volt coulomb per 
metre. With the three units precisely defined, the newton will become a 
precisely defined unit. 

Then the kilogram can be defined from the newton. 1 kg will then be defined as 
1 N.s^2/m. 

Thus the problem with using a changeable artifact to define the kilogram, the 
kilogram and all SI units will be defined from precise natural phenomenon. 

Does anyone who reads this have any heads-up on what is happening on this 
subject? 


[USMA:47992] Nice BBC article that is all metric (and my show the path to 
redefining the kilogram?) 


ezra . steinberg 
Mon, 28 Jun 2010 21:07:51 -0700 This science article from the BBC uses metric 
only (which is nice to see): 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8767763.stm 

It also makes me wonder if being able to measure gravity this finely could be 
part of a redefinition of the kilogram to replace the current physical 
artifact. 
Or am I totally off base? 

-- Ezra 

[USMA:48404] Re: Trip to Canada

[ezra . steinberg]

This is precisely where I think amending the FPLA to permit metric-only 
labeling will have a disproportionately larger impact in Canada than it will in 
the country (USA) that actually amends the law. 

Once the bandwagon effect takes hold among US manufacturers to switch to 
rational metric sizes with metric-only units, Canadians will likely see a 
wholesale change-over to metric only units and rational sizes in packaged 
goods. That has got to provide (in my view at least) a strong positive impulse 
towards greater acceptance and use of metric units on their side of the border. 

Wishful thinking or prescience? We'll find out soon enough (if the bleeping 
FPLA ever gets amended and signed into law)! 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Harry Wyeth hbwy...@earthlink.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:23:16 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48402] Trip to Canada 

Many readers already know this, but here is what I found after a week in the 
Vancouver area: 

road signs in km, but at least a few still in miles, same with bridge height 
signs; lots of signs with Km or Kg 
some kms private signs 
all exercise machines at a gym, and weights, still in lbs. and miles 
grocery stores a total mess: fruits and veges in pounds, with kg sometimes 
added; milk in nice 2 and 4 L containers; stuff in cans and bottles mostly in 
US style 
containers with oddball metric contents which are undoubtedly US sizes; cans of 
beer in 355 and even 34-something mL sizes 
a weird poster on a taxicab window advised riders that the cab rate was a 
certain rate (such as $1.50) per 1.5 km, and helpfully added that this amounted 
to xxx cents per something like 52.031 metres or some crazy figure! 
I think fish and meat servings at restaurants often were offered in 8 and 12 
ounce options 

Canada obviously has a long way to go, but this is not news. 

HARRY WYETH 

[USMA:48406] Re: Trip to Canada

[ezra . steinberg]

Unless they're educated to display price per 100 grams! ;-) 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:34:57 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48405] Re: Trip to Canada 




One big reason they want to show prices in pounds is because the price per unit 
is lower. Marketeering, after all. 



cm 





From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 17:14 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:48404] Re: Trip to Canada 




This is precisely where I think amending the FPLA to permit metric-only 
labeling will have a disproportionately larger impact in Canada than it will in 
the country (USA) that actually amends the law. 

Once the bandwagon effect takes hold among US manufacturers to switch to 
rational metric sizes with metric-only units, Canadians will likely see a 
wholesale change-over to metric only units and rational sizes in packaged 
goods. That has got to provide (in my view at least) a strong positive impulse 
towards greater acceptance and use of metric units on their side of the border. 

Wishful thinking or prescience? We'll find out soon enough (if the bleeping 
FPLA ever gets amended and signed into law)! 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Harry Wyeth hbwy...@earthlink.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:23:16 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48402] Trip to Canada 

Many readers already know this, but here is what I found after a week in the 
Vancouver area: 

road signs in km, but at least a few still in miles, same with bridge height 
signs; lots of signs with Km or Kg 
some kms private signs 
all exercise machines at a gym, and weights, still in lbs. and miles 
grocery stores a total mess: fruits and veges in pounds, with kg sometimes 
added; milk in nice 2 and 4 L containers; stuff in cans and bottles mostly in 
US style 
containers with oddball metric contents which are undoubtedly US sizes; cans of 
beer in 355 and even 34-something mL sizes 
a weird poster on a taxicab window advised riders that the cab rate was a 
certain rate (such as $1.50) per 1.5 km, and helpfully added that this amounted 
to xxx cents per something like 52.031 metres or some crazy figure! 
I think fish and meat servings at restaurants often were offered in 8 and 12 
ounce options 

Canada obviously has a long way to go, but this is not news. 

HARRY WYETH 

[USMA:48413] Re: Trip to Canada

[ezra . steinberg]

Here's where things get a little ugly, of course, because the FPLA requires US 
fluid ounces, which are not the ounce used in Canada. 

All the more reason for us to get the FPLA amended. I have this obsessive 
conviction (no secret there ;-) that rational metric sizes will abound once 
that happens, which will have at least a partial positive impact on the 
Canadian sense of living metric. 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 4:23:42 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48409] Re: Trip to Canada 



I have a 1.18 L bottle of shampoo, which would look a little funny without its 
companion 40 oz. I believe it is not strictly FPLA-compliant as I believe 1QT 
8OZ is mandatory, but 40 OZ may be specified in addition. What is odder is that 
it came in a bundle that included a smaller bottle, which is an even metric 
size, 200 mL (6.8 FL OZ). A more useful small size would be a 100 mL bottle 
that I could take on an airplane. 




From: John Frewen-Lord j...@frewston.plus.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sat, August 21, 2010 2:20:48 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48407] Re: Trip to Canada 

 
I've often wondered why McDonalds doesn't rename its 'Quarter Pounder' to 
something on the lines of 'Big One Hundred' or something similar ( ...a full 
100 grams of fresh beef). Most customers would not notice the approx. 12% 
reduction in meat content, and McDonalds would save that amount in meat costs 
while likely getting away with charging the same price. 

Blame not only the FPLA for non-rational sizing of products in Canada, but also 
NAFTA, where the US managed to outlaw Canada's original laws regarding product 
sizing. 

In regards to BC, it is probably the least 'progressive' in terms of achieving 
full metric conversion. Surprisingly, I've found Alberta - cowboy country - to 
be more metric than anywhere else, while in Ontario and Nova Scotia - two 
provinces I have spent much time in this year - you will have to look very hard 
indeed to see any official signs on the roads with miles on them (and ft-in on 
bridge signs - though more of these in NS than Ont), while in the stores, 
anything pre-packaged (including say cold meats) is invariably (and as required 
by law) to be labelled in metric units. Admittedly (and as I've mentioned 
before and as Harry Wyeth pointed out) some of those sizes are oddball indeed, 
and I couldn't relate them to ANY rational size, metric, imperial or USC 
(shampoo in 1.08 L ?). 

John F-L 


- Original Message - 
From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association 
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 4:31 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48406] Re: Trip to Canada 


Unless they're educated to display price per 100 grams! ;-) 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Carleton MacDonald  carlet...@comcast.net  
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:34:57 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48405] Re: Trip to Canada 




One big reason they want to show prices in pounds is because the price per unit 
is lower. Marketeering, after all. 



cm 





From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 17:14 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:48404] Re: Trip to Canada 




This is precisely where I think amending the FPLA to permit metric-only 
labeling will have a disproportionately larger impact in Canada than it will in 
the country (USA) that actually amends the law. 

Once the bandwagon effect takes hold among US manufacturers to switch to 
rational metric sizes with metric-only units, Canadians will likely see a 
wholesale change-over to metric only units and rational sizes in packaged 
goods. That has got to provide (in my view at least) a strong positive impulse 
towards greater acceptance and use of metric units on their side of the border. 

Wishful thinking or prescience? We'll find out soon enough (if the bleeping 
FPLA ever gets amended and signed into law)! 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Harry Wyeth hbwy...@earthlink.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 1:23:16 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48402] Trip to Canada 

Many readers already know this, but here is what I found after a week in the 
Vancouver area: 

road signs in km, but at least a few still in miles, same with bridge height 
signs; lots of signs with Km or Kg 
some kms private signs 
all exercise machines at a gym, and weights, still in lbs. and miles 
grocery stores a total mess: fruits and veges in pounds, with kg sometimes 
added; milk in nice 2 and 4 L containers; stuff in cans and bottles mostly in 
US style 
containers with oddball metric contents which are undoubtedly US sizes; 

[USMA:48415] Re: Trip to Canada

[ezra . steinberg]

This article in Wikipedia gives the background and the attendant crazy flavor 
of what's behind the Imperial vs US Customary madness: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_ounce 

I agree with John  maybe holding the feet to the fire of those members of 
the FMI who are opposed to amending the FPLA might jar them enough to want to 
liberate themselves from the US Customary quagmire with the option of 
metric-only labeling! 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net, U.S. Metric Association 
usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:58:21 AM 
Subject: Re: [USMA:48413] Re: Trip to Canada 



The US fluid ounce is larger than the Imperial, but the quart is smaller. While 
not allowed (alone) by FPLA, the 40 oz delaration is true in Canada in the I 
gave you more than sense. Had they said 1 QT 8 OZ, that would have been untrue 
(and unlawful) in Canada. 

Has NAFTA somehow exempted the US FPLA requirement for largest units? I can't 
find anything in the FDA rules that says it. I agree with you completely on 
permissive metric only. However, with FMI opposition and lackadaisical support 
from food processors, I'm not optimistic, and one strategy is to hold the 
manufacturers to every letter of the rules regarding Customary. If they love 
Customary so much and think the present rules are so good, they should obey 
them scrupulously. (If Customary is enough of a PITA, they'll change their 
position.) 




From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sat, August 21, 2010 1:08:52 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48413] Re: Trip to Canada 


Here's where things get a little ugly, of course, because the FPLA requires US 
fluid ounces, which are not the ounce used in Canada. 

All the more reason for us to get the FPLA amended. I have this obsessive 
conviction (no secret there ;-) that rational metric sizes will abound once 
that happens, which will have at least a partial positive impact on the 
Canadian sense of living metric. 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 4:23:42 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48409] Re: Trip to Canada 



I have a 1.18 L bottle of shampoo, which would look a little funny without its 
companion 40 oz. I believe it is not strictly FPLA-compliant as I believe 1QT 
8OZ is mandatory, but 40 OZ may be specified in addition. What is odder is that 
it came in a bundle that included a smaller bottle, which is an even metric 
size, 200 mL (6.8 FL OZ). A more useful small size would be a 100 mL bottle 
that I could take on an airplane. 




From: John Frewen-Lord j...@frewston.plus.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sat, August 21, 2010 2:20:48 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48407] Re: Trip to Canada 

 
I've often wondered why McDonalds doesn't rename its 'Quarter Pounder' to 
something on the lines of 'Big One Hundred' or something similar ( ...a full 
100 grams of fresh beef). Most customers would not notice the approx. 12% 
reduction in meat content, and McDonalds would save that amount in meat costs 
while likely getting away with charging the same price. 

Blame not only the FPLA for non-rational sizing of products in Canada, but also 
NAFTA, where the US managed to outlaw Canada's original laws regarding product 
sizing. 

In regards to BC, it is probably the least 'progressive' in terms of achieving 
full metric conversion. Surprisingly, I've found Alberta - cowboy country - to 
be more metric than anywhere else, while in Ontario and Nova Scotia - two 
provinces I have spent much time in this year - you will have to look very hard 
indeed to see any official signs on the roads with miles on them (and ft-in on 
bridge signs - though more of these in NS than Ont), while in the stores, 
anything pre-packaged (including say cold meats) is invariably (and as required 
by law) to be labelled in metric units. Admittedly (and as I've mentioned 
before and as Harry Wyeth pointed out) some of those sizes are oddball indeed, 
and I couldn't relate them to ANY rational size, metric, imperial or USC 
(shampoo in 1.08 L ?). 

John F-L 


- Original Message - 
From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association 
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 4:31 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48406] Re: Trip to Canada 


Unless they're educated to display price per 100 grams! ;-) 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Carleton MacDonald  carlet...@comcast.net  
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2010 7:34:57 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48405] Re: Trip to Canada 




One big reason they want to show prices in pounds is because the price per unit

[USMA:48433] Breaking the Imperial mindset

[ezra . steinberg]

I know I've mentioned this once or twice before, but in thinking on this issue 
of the Imperial mindset and how it can impede metrication, I'm more convinced 
than ever that one of keys to successful conversion is breaking that mindset in 
all possible ways. 

In particular, it seems like the way to break the Imperial mindset of compound 
units (6 ft 3 in) and vulgar fractions (3 1/2 in) is to sweep both away in one 
fell swoop by replacing them with whole numbers. The other is use a unit (or 
submultiple) that is different enough from the old Imperial units to help 
prevent cognitive conflating of the two (the new and the old). 

How you say? Well, when it comes to measuring lengths, millimeters are the 
little miracle workers to get this job done. I have a strong hunch that is why 
industries that converted to millimeters in Australia did so well and so 
quickly: no fractions of any kind to mess with and a unit and actual numbers 
that were being used for familiar distances that were very different from the 
old feet and inches. 

Those industries using centimeters had no such advantages, which could explain 
why they're still in a muddle. 

So, while it's true that a society very comfortable with decimal fractions and 
submultiple prefixes in metric can do just fine using centimeters for certain 
ranges of length measurement that are arguably more natural or sensible, it 
seems like it's more important to break the Imperial mindset in a country 
seeking to convert than any other consideration. 

Anyhow, a few bits of observation after a relaxing Sunday morning shower ... 
hope that's not TMI. ;-) 

Cheers, y'all! 

Ezra 

[USMA:48599] Re: metre or meter

[ezra . steinberg]

Homophones? What's metric got to do with gay people??? 

- Original Message - 
From: James R. Frysinger j...@metricmethods.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu, si...@listserv.ieee.org 
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2010 5:55:31 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48598] Re: metre or meter 

I wood tend to agree with ewe their on the subject of meeters if it 
weren't for homophones, Robert. We spell homophones differently in order 
to make a distinction in meaning. 

Jim 

On 2010-10-01 1623, Robert H. Bushnell wrote: 
 2010 Oct 1 
 Metricationmatters.com 
 
 Pat, 
 The long discussion of spelling metre or meter has left 
 out two matters. 
 
 One, language is spoken and trying to use spelling to 
 separate two ideas pronounced as the same word will not work. 
 A meter is a device which shows a measurement. I think we need 
 to keep it for that meaning. So, for length, meter is as bad 
 as metre. 
 
 Two, metric and SI need one syllable words. Inch-pound 
 units are full of one syllable words: inch, foot, yard, rod, mile, 
 pound, ounce, cord, cup, knot, peck, pint, quart, therm. 
 It will be hard to overcome the ease of these one 
 syllable words. 
 
 Some one syllable metric words are already used up so we 
 can't use them: erg, gram, Gal, gauss, stere, torr. Or can we? 
 
 Having a three syllable word, kilogram, as a base unit 
 is a big mistake. Even meter may be two syllables. Candela is 
 too big. 
 
 So, everybody. Give us one syllable words for SI to use. 
 
 Robert Bushnell 
 
 
 
 

-- 
James R. Frysinger 
632 Stony Point Mountain Road 
Doyle, TN 38559-3030 

(C) 931.212.0267 
(H) 931.657.3107 
(F) 931.657.3108 

[USMA:48608] Some positive signs

[ezra . steinberg]

At my local PCC Natural Food Market I saw a display of glass containers from an 
outfit called GetStorganized. Here is an example: 

http://getstorganized.com/gr1b-p-79.html?cPath=3 

What I found interesting was that the capacity of the containers is given in 
metric (liters) in larger font (embossed on the bottom of the container) 
followed by the floozies in some weird amount just underneath the metric and in 
much smaller font. 

What I also liked is that the store made the sale tags give only the metric 
(rational) sizes ... not a single mention of the floozies anywhere! 

They did this probably because they're a progressive-thinking local small chain 
of stores rather than a big national chain. Someone like Safeway would probably 
have listed the strangle floozies on the shelf labels with no mention of metric 
... if they would ever bother to stock this line of products at all! 

-- Ezra 

[USMA:48610] Re: Some positive signs

[ezra . steinberg]

Yeah, too bad about those Imperial dimensions. 

I do remember seeing on the containers that they are made in Korea (South). 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, October 3, 2010 12:03:58 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48609] Re: Some positive signs 



On the GetStorganized website, they give the capacity in liters or milliliters 
(depending on size), but the physical dimensions of the containers are in 
inches. I suspect they just buy the containers from a manufacturer who uses 
metric-primary. I'd be more excited if those dimensions were also metric. 




From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 1:48:33 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48608] Some positive signs 


At my local PCC Natural Food Market I saw a display of glass containers from an 
outfit called GetStorganized. Here is an example: 

http://getstorganized.com/gr1b-p-79.html?cPath=3 

What I found interesting was that the capacity of the containers is given in 
metric (liters) in larger font (embossed on the bottom of the container) 
followed by the floozies in some weird amount just underneath the metric and in 
much smaller font. 

What I also liked is that the store made the sale tags give only the metric 
(rational) sizes ... not a single mention of the floozies anywhere! 

They did this probably because they're a progressive-thinking local small chain 
of stores rather than a big national chain. Someone like Safeway would probably 
have listed the strangle floozies on the shelf labels with no mention of metric 
... if they would ever bother to stock this line of products at all! 

-- Ezra 

[USMA:48634] National Geographic turning over a new leaf?

[ezra . steinberg]

I happened to stumble upon the National Geographic web site with a preview of 
their program on exploring caves. The short preview mentioned that the 
backpacks used by the explorers were heavy, weighing 20 kg. 

No USC/Imperial at all in the narration ... just the metric! 

Is this a change of heart on the part of National Geographic? Or just a one-off 
because of the particular producer involved with the film project? 

I sure hope it's the former ... 

Ezra 

[USMA:48715] Re: TV Cooking Shows

[ezra . steinberg]

Looks like this gal is American all the way  but obviously sophisticated 
(that is, not likely to say Freedome fries instead of French fries ;-) 

http://www.barefootcontessa.com/about.shtml 


Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Howard Ressel (DOT) hres...@dot.state.ny.us 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 5:16:20 AM 
Subject: [USMA:48712] TV Cooking Shows 





I don’t normal watch these shows although my wife does but I caught an episode 
of Barefoot Contessa the other night and she was making yummy chocolate 
truffles. The measurements she gave were mostly in metric. She measured the 
chocolate on a scale in grams and fluids in ml. She sounded American but 
perhaps the shows from Canada? At one point she mentioned a measure of butter 
in grams then said that’s about one tablespoon.

[USMA:48733] Sign of hope north of the border?

[ezra . steinberg]

I was listening to the Vinyl Cafe from CBC Radio today and heard one of the 
listener's stories submitted for reading on the air. 

The submitter grew up in Cape Breton and now lives in Ottawa. I was struck by 
the fact that he gave the distance in kilometres from his home to the site of 
the summer experience he recounted back in 1982. I was also struck by the fact 
that the host of the show (Stuart McClane ... sp?) pronounced it as 
KILL-oh-mee-ters and neither he nor the story's author added miles or used 
time (hours) to indicate the distance. 

Could it be just an individual quirk? Or is it related to the fact that both 
Cape Breton and Ottawa are more removed from the US border and thus more 
insulated from our bad (read inch pound) influence. Or does his living in the 
Canadian capital, which is not only officially bilingual but more likely to be 
more careful about using the official system of weights and measures because of 
all of the government functionaries and bureaucrats also have something to do 
with it? 

Anyway, it was a nice sign from north of the border. Let's hope we encourage 
both them and the UK to move forward by sending a signal (and more metric-only 
products) after we amend the FPLA to allow metric-only packaging. (Which, alas, 
is likely to be dead in the water for the next two years if the Republicans 
take over the House. :-( 

Cheers, 
Ezra 

[USMA:48971] Re: metric-only measurement of oral liquid medication doses

[ezra . steinberg]

And then there is this post on the UKMA web site as it pertains to the NHS in 
the UK: 

http://metricviews.org.uk/2009/12/nhs-risking-patients-lives-with-imperial-scales/
 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Paul Trusten trus...@grandecom.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 10:09:47 PM 
Subject: [USMA:48970] metric-only measurement of oral liquid medication doses 


Dear Dr. Kochanowski and Officers of the Consumer Health Products Association, 

As both a practicing pharmacist and an officer in the U.S. Metric Association 
(USMA), Inc., I urge you to adopt the recommendation of Dr. H. Shonna Kim of 
NYU School of Medicine, and make the milliliter the sole measurement unit for 
all over-the-counter (OTC) oral liquid medication dosing on the U.S. market. 
Consistency of measuring cups is not enough. The one way to ensure medication 
safety in the use of oral liquids is to move all Americans to exclusively 
metric measurement of OTC liquid medication doses. 

The sole use of the metric system of measurement in consumer products is 
supported by two national recommendations: 

1) The Congress in 1988 declared the metric system to be the preferred system 
of measurement for U.S. trade and commerce (Title 15 U.S.C., Chapter 6, 
Subchapter II, Sec. 205b). 

2) The Institute for Safe Medication Practices (ISMP) in 2009 recommended that 
non-metric units be eliminated entirely from all dealings with prescription 
medicines, from prescribing to pharmacy processing to patient education (please 
see ISMP attachment). 

I believe we can no longer tolerate the tradition of using old units of 
measurement along with metric units in healthcare. Indeed, we should never have 
tolerated it. Since new guidelines are being considered to improve the safe use 
of these products, I think we should follow these suggestions of law and health 
science, and go entirely metric now. 

Thank you very much for your kind attention. 

SIncerely, 

Paul Trusten, R.Ph. , Vice President and Public Relations Director 
U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
www.metric.org 
trus...@grandecom.net 
+1(432)528-8824 

[USMA:49007] Re: NPR story on ml dosing

[ezra . steinberg]

Not officially, of course there is no problem with ml instead of mL. 

However, there is the practical consideration of how Americans read these 
symbols. Using mL is more user-friendly and readable, especially for those not 
accustomed to metric symbols. After all, think of all the places where you see 
mcg instead of the correct symbol with the Greek letter mu ... it's a similar 
issue (even though I myself wish mcg would be replaced with the proper 
symbol). 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: mech...@illinois.edu 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, December 5, 2010 11:49:45 AM 
Subject: [USMA:49004] Re: NPR story on ml dosing 

There is *no problem* with either ml or mL, only with l rather than L for 
liter. 

 Original message  
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 06:29:48 +1100 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
Subject: [USMA:49003] Re: NPR story on ml dosing 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
 
 Dear John, Martin, and All, 
 Wow! Here we go again -- off and running down the 
 metric conversion approach to the metric system. 
 It's hard to know who's leading in this race. Is 
 it the Consumer Healthcare Products Association 
 (CHPA)? Is it the Food and Drug Administration 
 (FDA)? Is it the American Medical Association (AMA)? 
 Who is leading the metric conversion contest? Let 
 me quote from the NPR article 
 at at 
 http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/11/30/131701589/why-it-s-so-easy-to-give-kids-the-wrong-medicine-dose
  
 But a study just published online by JAMA finds 98 
 percent of the top-selling 200 over-the-counter 
 children's medications sold in 2009 came with 
 confusing inconsistencies in dosing instructions. 
 A common mix-up: The instructions on the bottle give 
 teaspoon measurements, but the dosing cup marks 
 milliliters, or ml. And who remembers this 
 conversion? 
 The doctor asks, who remembers this conversion? 
 but this should be a totally irrelevant question. A 
 better response is to ask, Why is anyone seeking to 
 find a metric conversion solution to this problem 
 at all? 
 It seems to me that these good folk at CHPA, FDA, 
 and the AMA are seeking to find some sort of metric 
 conversion to solve the problem of the 98 % of 
 medications that are currently suffering from 
 metric conversion problems. These people seem to 
 be innocently ignorant of the observation that the 
 metric conversion approach to a metrication 
 upgrade does not work -- and it never has! 
 Seeking a metric conversion solution to a metric 
 conversion problem screams for a sign that reads: 
 Here lies insanity! 
 For those unfamiliar with the four approaches to a 
 metrication upgrade, go 
 to http://www.metricationmatters.com/docs/ApproachesToMetrication.pdf 
 Direct metrication 
 Let me suggest that direct metrication should be 
 considered as the best way to proceed with medical 
 dosing. I think that this is what the medical 
 scientist and lead researcher is seeking. Consider 
 this quote from the NPR article: 
 Many experts — including the lead author of the 
 new research — say adopting one unit of 
 measurement would be the best way to go. If we 
 could have milliliters be the only unit of 
 measurement used, then I think this may be the best 
 system, says researcher H. Shonna Yin of New York 
 University School of Medicine. 
 So what would direct metrication look like for 
 dosing medicines. 
 * Each medicine should be supplied with an 
 appropriate measurer marked with its size clearly 
 stated in millilitres using the correct 
 international symbol mL 
 * Generally, there should be two sizes for these 
 measures -- 5 mL and 20 mL to minimise comparisons 
 with spoons from the cutlery drawer (the use of 15 
 mL almost demands comparison with tablespoons in the 
 USA). 
 * Each measurer should have only one volume marked 
 on it; these would usually be either 5 mL or 20 mL 
 but not both. Multiple markings should be strictly 
 avoided. 
 * There should be no reference to any other 
 measuring words either on the measurer or in the 
 accompanying literature, Specifically, this means no 
 mention of the pseudo measuring words: spoons, 
 teaspoons, tablespoons or cups. (Note: I know that 
 the little plastic measurers are often referred to 
 as 'cups' but when I read this I immediately picture 
 a 250 mL cup and this is definitely not recommended 
 as in give the child one 'cup' each evening before 
 bed). Note: I don't much like the word measurer but 
 its the best I can do at the moment. 
 * All references to metric conversion, or 
 conversions or comparisons of any kind, should be 
 identified, explicitly denigrated, then expunged, 
 deleted, and removed from all literature associated 
 with any and every medicine. (Do I make myself 
 clear?) 
 P.S. I am appalled at the use of ml rather than mL 
 in the heading of this email. 
 Cheers, 
 Pat Naughtin 
 Geelong, Australia 

[USMA:49009] Re: NPR story on ml dosing

[ezra . steinberg]

Huh??? The Liter is already named after Johannes Liter (Austrian scientist, 
1775 - 1837). I thought everybody knew that. 
-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, December 5, 2010 2:15:50 PM 
Subject: [USMA:49008] Re: NPR story on ml dosing 



But for consistency, if we insist on L for liter, then people should retain 
the form when used with any prefix. 
I'm of the opinion we should invent a man named Liter, and name the liter after 
him. Then it is settled. 




From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sun, December 5, 2010 5:00:57 PM 
Subject: [USMA:49007] Re: NPR story on ml dosing 


Not officially, of course there is no problem with ml instead of mL. 

However, there is the practical consideration of how Americans read these 
symbols. Using mL is more user-friendly and readable, especially for those not 
accustomed to metric symbols. After all, think of all the places where you see 
mcg instead of the correct symbol with the Greek letter mu ... it's a similar 
issue (even though I myself wish mcg would be replaced with the proper 
symbol). 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: mech...@illinois.edu 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, December 5, 2010 11:49:45 AM 
Subject: [USMA:49004] Re: NPR story on ml dosing 

There is *no problem* with either ml or mL, only with l rather than L for 
liter. 

 Original message  
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 06:29:48 +1100 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
Subject: [USMA:49003] Re: NPR story on ml dosing 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
 
 Dear John, Martin, and All, 
 Wow! Here we go again -- off and running down the 
 metric conversion approach to the metric system. 
 It's hard to know who's leading in this race. Is 
 it the Consumer Healthcare Products Association 
 (CHPA)? Is it the Food and Drug Administration 
 (FDA)? Is it the American Medical Association (AMA)? 
 Who is leading the metric conversion contest? Let 
 me quote from the NPR article 
 at at 
 http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/11/30/131701589/why-it-s-so-easy-to-give-kids-the-wrong-medicine-dose
  
 But a study just published online by JAMA finds 98 
 percent of the top-selling 200 over-the-counter 
 children's medications sold in 2009 came with 
 confusing inconsistencies in dosing instructions. 
 A common mix-up: The instructions on the bottle give 
 teaspoon measurements, but the dosing cup marks 
 milliliters, or ml. And who remembers this 
 conversion? 
 The doctor asks, who remembers this conversion? 
 but this should be a totally irrelevant question. A 
 better response is to ask, Why is anyone seeking to 
 find a metric conversion solution to this problem 
 at all? 
 It seems to me that these good folk at CHPA, FDA, 
 and the AMA are seeking to find some sort of metric 
 conversion to solve the problem of the 98 % of 
 medications that are currently suffering from 
 metric conversion problems. These people seem to 
 be innocently ignorant of the observation that the 
 metric conversion approach to a metrication 
 upgrade does not work -- and it never has! 
 Seeking a metric conversion solution to a metric 
 conversion problem screams for a sign that reads: 
 Here lies insanity! 
 For those unfamiliar with the four approaches to a 
 metrication upgrade, go 
 to http://www.metricationmatters.com/docs/ApproachesToMetrication.pdf 
 Direct metrication 
 Let me suggest that direct metrication should be 
 considered as the best way to proceed with medical 
 dosing. I think that this is what the medical 
 scientist and lead researcher is seeking. Consider 
 this quote from the NPR article: 
 Many experts — including the lead author of the 
 new research — say adopting one unit of 
 measurement would be the best way to go. If we 
 could have milliliters be the only unit of 
 measurement used, then I think this may be the best 
 system, says researcher H. Shonna Yin of New York 
 University School of Medicine. 
 So what would direct metrication look like for 
 dosing medicines. 
 * Each medicine should be supplied with an 
 appropriate measurer marked with its size clearly 
 stated in millilitres using the correct 
 international symbol mL 
 * Generally, there should be two sizes for these 
 measures -- 5 mL and 20 mL to minimise comparisons 
 with spoons from the cutlery drawer (the use of 15 
 mL almost demands comparison with tablespoons in the 
 USA). 
 * Each measurer should have only one volume marked 
 on it; these would usually be either 5 mL or 20 mL 
 but not both. Multiple markings should be strictly 
 avoided. 
 * There should be no reference to any other 
 measuring words either on the measurer or in the 
 accompanying literature, 

[USMA:49168] RE: Construction SI

[ezra . steinberg]

Yes, indeed. It really seems that avoiding fractions (which inevitably includes 
not just decimal fractions but also the vulgar fractions like halves, quarters, 
etc.) is key for real acceptance of the metric system. 

Only when a population is already thoroughly versed and comfortable with metric 
both conceptually and operationally could they conceivably add something like 
centimeters and use them properly. When it comes to a population that is used 
to Imperial and needs to switch, whole numbers (and thus millimeters) does seem 
to be the way to go. 

Regards, 
Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Bill Hooper billhoope...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 7:04:28 PM 
Subject: [USMA:49166] RE: Construction SI 




On Dec 11 , at 6:07 AM, a-bruie...@lycos.com wrote: QUESTION 


OK then why are all tape measures and meter sticks in cm and not mm? And my mac 
computer calculator only converts to cm and not mm? 

ANSWER 
Because the manufacturers of those items have not yet heard of, less adopted, 
Pat Naughtin's recommendation. When Pat's recommendation, he has the FACTS that 
show it works. 







Bill Hooper 
1810 mm tall 
Fernandina Beach, Florida, USA 


== 
SImplification Begins With SI. 
== 

[USMA:49194] Re: Driving in the Caribbean

[ezra . steinberg]

I can add this from a personal correspondent visiting Barbados: 


Barbados has road signs in metric. Most cars (Japanese imports) have km/h only 
on their speedometers but - ironically - the European imports have mph main 
markings (km/h small markings) because they import UK cars that have the 
steering wheel on the right-hand side. 

People tend to 'speak' in imperial (miles, yards, feet, that sort of thing). 
Shop stuff is mixed but loose stuff is per kg. Weather is in Celsius on their 
TV station and in their newspapers. 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 6:02:50 PM 
Subject: [USMA:49192] Re: Driving in the Caribbean 

I can add the following, 

St Martin/St Maarten Joint French/Dutch group in the north eastern Caribbean. 

Fuel sold in liters, speed limits in km/h and vehicle speedometers in km/h 
only. 

Anguilla 

Fuel sold in Imperial Gallons, speed limits in mph, car speedometers in km/h 
only. 

Noted this only last month (November 2010). 

Michael Payne 

On 14/12/2010, at 01:27 , Jon Saxton wrote: 

 Puerto Rico: 
 
 Predominantly metric. Fuel sold in liters Distances in kilometers. Rental car 
 odometer in miles. Speed limits in mph. 
 
 
 St Croix: 
 
 All USC. 
 
 
 
 St Kitts: 
 
 Odometer in km. Distances in miles. Speed limits not posted. Fuel sold in 
 imperial gallons. 
 
 
 Dominica: 
 
 Not known. Did not drive there. 
 
 
 Grenada: 
 
 Odometer in km. Distances sometimes in miles, sometimes in km. Speed limits 
 not posted. Fuel sold in imperial gallons. 
 
 
 Tobago: 
 
 Odometer in km. Distances in km. Fuel in liters. 
 
 
 
 Puerto Rico was the most interesting. It is an oasis of metric in an 
 otherwise USC nation and offers a counter-argument to anyone who says that 
 metering fuel in liters is not practical. 
 

[USMA:49205] Re: centimetre or millimetre

[ezra . steinberg]

Maybe the answer when it comes to metricating the garment industry is for all 
the workers and industry to use mm and then put labels on the final product 
that specify certain dimensions (like waist size) in cm for the end consumer. 

Obviously, such an end stage conversion is trivial for the manufacturer while 
still allowing workers to avoid any fractions or hanging on to an Imperial mind 
set when using metric. 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:13:11 PM 
Subject: [USMA:49204] Re: centimetre or millimetre 




For body measurements, makes sense, given that those normally can’t be made to 
millimeter precision (we tend to get a bit longer after a long sleep, we tend 
to get a bit bigger after dinner, how you breathe can affect the measurement of 
your chest size, etc). 



The big difference is using cm for clothing sizes rather than numbers for 
sizes. Liz Claiborne’s Size 8 may be very different from Amalfi’s size 8, for 
example, but if the sizes are indicated by cm, neither of them nor any other 
clothing manufacturer can play games with the sizes in an attempt to mollify 
their customer base which is getting older and bigger but wants to think it is 
remaining a Size 8 forever. 



Carleton 




From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Phil Chernack 
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 11:46 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:49202] Re: centimetre or millimetre 




I'm just getting a little confused on what all the fuss is about. 





Here is the way I see it: 





Metric conversion: the process of converting non-metric measures to metric 
ones. 





Metrication: the process of changing the primary measuring methodology within a 
nation or society to SI. This can otherwise be noted as metric transition. 





I think we have to realize that any metrication plan is not monolithic. As for 
the argument of mm vs. cm, in terms of metrication, it makes sense for each 
industry or segment of society to choose the units that are approriate for it. 
Construction, transportation, manufacturing, etc all make sense to use 
millimeters, meters and kilometers only. 





For general use by everyday people who measure things like body height, 
clothing sizes and such, the centimeter is perfectly fine. 





Phil 








On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:58 AM, James R. Frysinger  j...@metricmethods.com  
wrote: 

Dear Pat, 

Believe me, I share your frustration! 

In two sessions of less than an hour apiece I've taught kindergartners to 
measure things in centimeters, determine the area of rectangles in square 
centimeters (by counting squares on gridded paper), weigh eggs in grams, use a 
meter stick marked in centimeters to add 2-digit numbers, properly write those 
quantity values, and recite the temperature poem. Now, if that can be done with 
kindergartners in two hours, one should not be surprised at what I've taught 
adults in two hours. By the way, centimeters are preferable to millimeters as 
the scale at which kindergartners should first work; their fat pencils have a 
diameter of 1 cm! 

It's not that the metric system is difficult to learn. It's that people 
pre-determine that they don't want to use it. And that's merely due to inertia 
and lack of motivation. The lack of motivation is due to the lack of an obvious 
and fast-paced public metrication program in this country. 

Your preference for millimeters is well founded and quite logical. I'm just not 
as dogmatic as you are about it, having successfully metricated people using 
centimeters as well. My approach takes just a tiny bit more work. 

Jim 





On 2010-12-14 0019, Pat Naughtin wrote: 

Dear Jim, 

I suppose that I am a bit sensitive to people who say that I am against 
centimetres under all circumstances. 

It is true that I am totally opposed to the use of centimetres for a 
smooth, economical, and rapid metrication upgrade -- that is all -- and 
I think that I have sufficient observational evidence to support the 
view that centimetres are slow and that millimetres are fast. 

I just find it frustrating knowing that enough of the metric system to 
build the world's tallest buildings can be taught in under a minute, 
learned practically within an hour, consolidated within a day, and then 
form the basis of lifelong learning n the building industry. See 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 

The truly frustrating part is to watch helplessly as other people choose 
approaches to metrication that have been demonstrated either not to work 
at all (metric conversion) or that take extraordinary long times to 
complete (hidden metric, hidden pre-metric measuring words, and the use 
of centimetres). 

Cheers, 

Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Geelong, Australia 

On 2010/12/14, at 09:33 , James R. Frysinger wrote: 

Read me literally, Pat. You COULD 

[USMA:49228] Re: Drug Label information

[ezra . steinberg]

I've actually seen data sheets packaged with the drugs I've taken that use the 
right symbol for micrograms. But that's the technical data in the data sheet, 
not the separate dosing instructions. 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 10:57:30 AM 
Subject: [USMA:49227] Drug Label information 


I finally seem to be getting somewhere with correcting the information printed 
out by various Pharmacy's around the US. Most of the bottles and the 
information sheets list the drug as MG instead of the correct mg (milligram). I 
researched which company and wrote to them about a month ago. It may finally 
have reached the person responsible for writing the program that puts the 
incorrect information on the prescription drug labels and information sheets. 


If any of you have prescription medicine, see who wrote the software, it's 
somewhere on the sheet. I found Wolters Kluwer was the company listed. 


Michael Payne 









Mr. Payne, 



Thank you for your comments regarding Medi-Span’s use of mg, MG and other SI 
symbols. We will research this issue  review all products to determine how to 
proceed. We strive to minimize confusion and maximize patient safety with every 
listing and we appreciate your concerns. 



Best Regards, 



Polly Laux, RPh 

Senior Clinical Manager, Medi-Span Drug File 

Wolters Kluwer Health - Clinical Solutions 

8425 Woodfield Crossing Blvd., Ste. 490 

Indianapolis , IN 46240-2495 

Phone: (317) 735-5317 

Fax: (317) 735-5320 

polly.l...@wolterskluwer.com 

[USMA:49233] Re: imperial

[ezra . steinberg]

I like Tom's suggestion and agree with his assessment. 

In this Yuletide season I'll even take it one step further and suggest Ye Olde 
Colonial Measurement Units. 

Ho! Ho! Ho! y'all ... 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Tom Wade tom.w...@tomwade.eu 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 10:54:35 AM 
Subject: [USMA:49232] Re: imperial 


 Imperial is a specific system adopted by the UK in 1824. 

And of course, the US had gained independence by that time, and therefore 
didn't adopt these 
changes, hence the difference between the US pint and the Imperial pint 
(leading to the different 
gallons). 

It is therefore incorrect to say the US uses imperial measure. The term US 
Customary should be 
avoided, as it gives the impression that it is an American derived system 
(playing to nationalist 
tendencies) whereas it is in fact a remnant of the colonial heritage, hence my 
preferred use of 
'Colonial Measure'. This term is less emotional and more factually correct than 
phrases like FFU 
(Fred Flintstone Units) or WOMBAT, and yet manages to convey a suitably mild 
negative connotation to 
deflect those who wrap their resistance to change in the flag. 


Tom Wade 

[USMA:49373] EU request for metric-only labeling a chance to amend the FPLA?

[ezra . steinberg]

I have learned that on November 11 the European Parliament adopted a resolution 
on the EU-US Summit and Transatlantic Economic Council (TEC) meeting scheduled 
for December 16–17calling for the mutual recognition of legal units of 
measurement, in particular acceptance of metric-only labeling of EU products in 
the U.S. 

Does anyone have any updated information on what came out of this meeting? Is 
this the hook that is needed to get Congress to pass the amendment to the 
FPLA? 

Happy New Year! 
Ezra 

[USMA:49415] BBC World Service

[ezra . steinberg]

Dear Pat: 

I listen to the BBC World Service via NPR (National Public Radio) which 
transmits the World Service live at various points in its programming, 
including all night long (daytime in the UK). Most of the time I hear them 
using metric and only occasionally do I hear Imperial (and in most cases it is 
a British or American interviewee who is doing this in the voice clip that they 
play). 

Not sure why our listening experience in this regard seems to be so different. 

Cheers, 
Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Monday, January 3, 2011 2:22:49 AM 
Subject: [USMA:49413] Re: USA 2x4 






On 2011/01/03, at 20:36 , John Frewen-Lord wrote: 




On the BBC news (radio) yesterday, they played an interview with a resident of 
Rockhampton, who stated that the water depth was already eight point six 
metres and still rising - much more and we'll have to evacuate. 

John F-L 

Dear John, 


It surprises me that the BBC did not change the metres into feet. 


The BBC is one of the great holdouts to metrication in the world. I am aware of 
the BBC resistance to metrication because I am a radio listener and I often 
listen to the BBC World Service where anti-metric conversion is routine. (Note: 
anti-metric conversion is taking a metric system unit and changing it to one of 
the many millions of old pre-metric words.) Of course the BBC might use more 
metric terms inside the UK whereas they might be dumbing down the BBC World 
Service for listeners in the USA and here in Australia we're simply copping 
their anti-metric flak. 


Cheers, 


Pat Naughtin 
Geelong, Australia 








- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association 
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2011 6:50 AM 
Subject: [USMA:49410] USA 2x4 



On 2011/01/03, at 07:50 , John M. Steele wrote: 



In my view, it is a name, not a dimension, just like a 2x4. 

Dear John, 


As a numerical coincidence, the whole of the contiguous states of the USA is a 
2x4. 


Roughly wo megametres North to South and four megametres East to West, that is 
2 Mm x 4 Mm 


As 2 Mm x 4 Mm = 8 Mm^2 this makes the contiguous states of the USA roughly the 
same size as Australia. 


Land area of the USA contiguous states = 7 663 942 km² 


Land area of the whole of Australia =7 617 464 km² 


To put this into perspective roughly 800 000 km² in the North-East of Australia 
is currently under flood waters. However, this is not a time for panic as all 
the other states have dedicated and moved all emergency services to the flooded 
areas that are predicted to peak at 9.4 metres by Wednesday next week. 


Cheers, 















Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 
Hear Pat speak at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, 
Geelong, Australia 
Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 


Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped 
thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric 
system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each 
year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides 
services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for 
commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and 
in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, 
NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. S ee 
http://www.metricationmatters.com for more metrication information, contact Pat 
at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get the free ' Metrication matters 
' newsletter go to: http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to subscribe. 














Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 
Hear Pat speak at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, 
Geelong, Australia 
Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 


Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped 
thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric 
system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each 
year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides 
services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for 
commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and 
in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, 
NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. S ee 
http://www.metricationmatters.com for more metrication information, contact Pat 
at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get the free ' Metrication matters 
' newsletter go to: 

[USMA:49435] Apple advertises in metric

[ezra . steinberg]

Well, sort of ... 

http://www.apple.com/macbookair/features.html 

Ezra 

[USMA:49449] And a Canadian shall show them ...

[ezra . steinberg]

I was listening to a call-in program on NPR (National Public Radio). While most 
of the callers are residents of the USA, this particular caller was from 
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. The host was a bit surprised to be hearing from a 
Canadian and remarked that Halifax is reputed to have relatively mild winters 
compared to rest of Canada (Note from Ezra: aside from the Vancouver, British 
Columbia area), and then asked her what the current temperature was. When she 
told him it was -5 and the host responded “That’s not mild at all!”, she 
explained that she was using degrees Celsius. The host told her that that was 
about 25 degrees Fahrenheit, to which she replied “Well, that doesn’t mean 
anything to me.” 



I have talked to other Canadians who are actually working down here in the 
States and who confess that they still have trouble understanding Fahrenheit 
even though they have been living down here for some time. If Canada, with its 
own continuing muddle due to a previous Conservative government putting the 
brakes on metrication mid-stream and with its proximity to the USA, can raise a 
generation that understands only degrees Celsius (because the media never uses 
Fahrenheit) and kilometers (since all the road signs use km and km/h), then 
surely the USA could metricate in short order if it followed Australia's 
example of how to do this. 


Sadly, our government shows little or no inclination to make this happen at 
this time. 

Ezra 

[USMA:49452] Re: And a Canadian shall show them ...

[ezra . steinberg]

Pat, 

It is easy for those familiar with conversion to get Fahrenheit from Celsius. 

What I was trying to illustrate is that for most people whatever system they 
are used to is what they understand and the other ways of measuring becomes 
opaque. It is a hopeful sign, but only if we actually switch and stick with it 
(unlike the UK muddle). 

Cheers, 
Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, January 9, 2011 12:20:20 AM 
Subject: [USMA:49450] Re: And a Canadian shall show them ... 



On 2011/01/09, at 18:03 , ezra.steinb...@comcast.net wrote: 


I have talked to other Canadians who are actually working down here in the 
States and who confess that they still have trouble understanding Fahrenheit 

Dear Ezra, 


Fahrenheit is easy to understand. Just remember that all you have to do to get 
0 degrees Fahrenheit has something to do with a salt called ammonium chloride 
mixed with ice and water (sorry, but I don't know the proportions). The other 
part is a little more difficult as to get 96 degrees Fahrenheit you need to 
have Mrs, Fahrenheit's armpit available as this was the standard upper 
temperature set by Mr. Fahrenheit. See 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit#History where they say:  The second 
point, 100 degrees, was the level of the liquid in the thermometer when held in 
the mouth or under the armpit of his wife — subsequent refinements.  


Good luck with your experiments. 


Cheers, 















Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 
Hear Pat speak at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, 
Geelong, Australia 
Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 


Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped 
thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric 
system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each 
year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides 
services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for 
commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and 
in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, 
NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. S ee 
http://www.metricationmatters.com for more metrication information, contact Pat 
at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get the free ' Metrication matters 
' newsletter go to: http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to subscribe. 

[USMA:49456] Re: And a Canadian shall show them ...

[ezra . steinberg]

Pat: 

I completely agree. And your idea of two thermometers is an excellent one! 

I also like the little ditty for remembering the feel of the different 
multiples-of-ten temperatures in Celsius. :-) 

Cheers, 
Ezra 

P. S. Will the bloody rain and flooding ever stop 

- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, January 9, 2011 3:58:28 PM 
Subject: [USMA:49455] Re: And a Canadian shall show them ... 

Dear Ezra, 


Direct metrication would have degree Celsius thermometers ONLY in the house -- 
and especially in schools or Colleges -- so no metric conversion would ever be 
necessary. Years ago, I used to paste a poem like this next to the degrees 
Celsius ONLY thermometer: 


Zero is freezing, 
10 is not. 


20 is pleasing, 
30 is hot. 


40 frying, 
50 dying. 


I also once had two degree Celsius thermometers with suction circles that I 
could seal onto glass. I placed one inside a glass door and the other outside. 
That way you could check the inside temperature, the outside temperature, and 
calculate the difference without opening the door. 


Cheers, 


pat Naughtin 
Geelong, Australia 



On 2011/01/10, at 03:38 , ezra.steinb...@comcast.net wrote: 




Pat, 

It is easy for those familiar with conversion to get Fahrenheit from Celsius. 

What I was trying to illustrate is that for most people whatever system they 
are used to is what they understand and the other ways of measuring becomes 
opaque. It is a hopeful sign, but only if we actually switch and stick with it 
(unlike the UK muddle). 

Cheers, 
Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin  pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com  
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  
Sent: Sunday, January 9, 2011 12:20:20 AM 
Subject: [USMA:49450] Re: And a Canadian shall show them ... 



On 2011/01/09, at 18:03 , ezra.steinb...@comcast.net wrote: 


I have talked to other Canadians who are actually working down here in the 
States and who confess that they still have trouble understanding Fahrenheit 

Dear Ezra, 


Fahrenheit is easy to understand. Just remember that all you have to do to get 
0 degrees Fahrenheit has something to do with a salt called ammonium chloride 
mixed with ice and water (sorry, but I don't know the proportions). The other 
part is a little more difficult as to get 96 degrees Fahrenheit you need to 
have Mrs, Fahrenheit's armpit available as this was the standard upper 
temperature set by Mr. Fahrenheit. See 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit#History where they say:  The second 
point, 100 degrees, was the level of the liquid in the thermometer when held in 
the mouth or under the armpit of his wife — subsequent refinements.  


Good luck with your experiments. 


Cheers, 















Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 
Hear Pat speak at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, 
Geelong, Australia 
Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 


Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped 
thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric 
system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each 
year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides 
services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for 
commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and 
in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, 
NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. S ee 
http://www.metricationmatters.com for more metrication information, contact Pat 
at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get the free ' Metrication matters 
' newsletter go to: http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to subscribe. 














Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 
Hear Pat speak at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, 
Geelong, Australia 
Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 


Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped 
thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric 
system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each 
year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides 
services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for 
commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and 
in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, 
NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. S ee 
http://www.metricationmatters.com for more metrication information, contact Pat 
at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to 

[USMA:49573] More dumbing down via NPR

[ezra . steinberg]

I am listening to NPR and Atlanta Public Media. An Australian woman is 
describing her journey from Sydney to the protected reserve where aborigines 
live up north (closest large city is Darwin). 

The aborigine could be heard telling the woman that they had 10 liters of water 
just in case they break down, which was nice. But when the woman was describing 
the height of some things she could see while trraveling in the reserve, she 
used feet rather than meters (not even saying the height n meters first). 

I'm quite sure the American producer asked her to convert to feet or else the 
Aussie woman just assumed she needed to convert since she knew the program was 
for an American audience. 

Too bad another chance to give Americans a clue that Australia is fully 
metric was lost. 

Ezra 

[USMA:49577] Re: More dumbing down via NPR

[ezra . steinberg]

Excellent point about giving folks choices when they shouldn't and winding up 
with decision paralysis, Pat! 
-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:33:39 PM 
Subject: [USMA:49576] Re: More dumbing down via NPR 

Dear Ezra, 


During the recent floods in Australia almost all -- and I estimate about 5000 
media reports were given in metres -- I saw only three that used feet. One was 
a short (say 1.5 metres) very elderly woman who said six feet as she waved 
her hand at about her shoulder height (say 1.3 metres). Another was an employee 
at a truck loading depot who possibly spent his days buying footlong(r) from 
the Subway Company from the USA for his lunch and then went home to watch Fox 
news, Hollywood movies, or other television productions from the USA (note 
Subway uses the registered trademarks sixinch(r) and footlong(r) for their 
products as it is illegal here to trade here using inches and feet but not 
illegal to use registerd trademarks that contain these words. I suppose that 
the Subway company is planning to try to revert Australia to the uncoordinated 
measurement mess that the USA has to offer! 


On the subject of the Aussie woman dumbing down her words for an audience in 
the USA you are probably right. Australians know full well how far behind the 
USA is with respect to the other 95 % of people in the world. However, that 
said, women in Australia were not well supported in the metrication upgrade in 
Australia. As you know I have pointed out here previously that if you don't 
have a metrication policy then people will make up their own often providing 
two possible metric system units. This leads directly, in my opinion, to what 
the Heath brothers call  decision paralysis  where people do not have enough 
knowledge of the metric system to know what to do; so they revert to old 
pre-metric measuring words because they seem to be familiar (and not 
necessarily because they understand these either). Important examples are: 


* Human height where centimetres and metres are on offer as possible choices. 
This choice is promoted by schools who promote centimetres and the medical 
professions who promote metres for Body Mass Index (BMI). Given a choice many 
Australians say,  What's that in feet and inches?  


* Baby masses where women are given a choice between grams and kilograms. Not 
knowing what to do with these, and not knowing that the use of kilograms is 
inherently unsafe for the health of the baby, their next question is What's 
that in pounds and ounces?; again putting the baby's health at even more 
serious risk. 


* The textile industries chose to use metres and centimetres as their preferred 
metric system units. These have then been divided into fractions such as half 
metres and quarter metres and (like the Apple Computer Company) into half 
centimetres and quarter centimetres. Given these choices a lot of women 
continue to use their old patterns in feet, inches, and yards and to train 
their daughters to do likewise. A few, such as fine artwork quilters, work in 
millimetres and the quality of their work shows the other quilters up 
remarkably. 


Insofar as the metrication of Australia is concerned, we were totally 
successful in areas that involved construction and engineering in all its forms 
(roads, electrical, construction, civil, environmental and so on) where the 
policy decision was made to use millimetres, ONLY. The metrication upgrade was 
quick easy and extremely economical (saving about 10 % of turnover for most 
companies). My estimate is that we are 90 % metric or more but we still have to 
work on the remainder. See 
http://www.metricationmatters.com/docs/CostOfNonMetrication.pdf 


It would be wise for the USA to look at Australian successes -- and failures -- 
as a guide to changing from hidden metrication to an honest an open direct 
metrication. Done well the USA could again lead the world in honest and open 
measurement policies as they have done since the early 1780s. See 
http://www.metricationmatters.com/docs/MetricationTimeline.pdf and search for 
USA. 


Cheers, 


Pat Naughtin 
Geelong, Australia 



On 2011/01/23, at 08:21 , ezra.steinb...@comcast.net wrote: 




I am listening to NPR and Atlanta Public Media. An Australian woman is 
describing her journey from Sydney to the protected reserve where aborigines 
live up north (closest large city is Darwin). 

The aborigine could be heard telling the woman that they had 10 liters of water 
just in case they break down, which was nice. But when the woman was describing 
the height of some things she could see while trraveling in the reserve, she 
used feet rather than meters (not even saying the height n meters first). 

I'm quite sure the American producer asked her to convert to feet or else the 
Aussie woman just assumed she needed to convert since she 

[USMA:49704] Re: Australia metric

[ezra . steinberg]

 unless they've lived in the UK or the US ... or Canada. 

- Original Message - 
From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:13:07 PM 
Subject: [USMA:49702] Re: Australia metric 

I have a nephew and a niece in Australia, late teens early 20's, My sister told 
me one time how tall daughter was in feet and inches and I heard her daughter 
in the background ask how many centimeters that was, she apparently only knew 
the metric height. So the coming generation of adults seem to know only metric 
unless they've lived in the UK or the US. 


Mike Payne 


On 30/01/2011, at 10:13 , Kilopascal wrote: 




I would be curios to know if the persistent use of the foot and acre are dying 
out among the new generation or are they also continuing to use these remnant 
terms? If a person were asked to state their height in metres, would they know 
it? 

The hospitals should refuse to convert stating that it is a danger to health 
and life to do so. I'm sure there is a way to educate the new parents to know 
what is a normal and safe mass in kilograms so the mothers don't have to ask. 






From: kilop...@fastmail.fm 
Sent: Saturday, 2011-01-29 20:10 
To: Kilopascal 
Subject: Re: Australia metric 



Hi, nobody asks for pounds, mandated metrication guaranteed that. If it 
happened at the beginning of metrication the shop assistants would have known 
how many grams a pound was and would have explained it to the customer. Almost 
all people today talk of personal weight in kg. Slimming parlours, gyms, the 
media use kg exclusively 
Apart from some grandmothers insisting that hospitals convert their daughters 
babies birth weight into pounds everything is fully metric and so are all the 
recordings of baby's progress in weight and length. Young women eventually get 
sick of continuously converting grams and mm/cm into odd old units. That 
practice will disappear quicker than the persistent foot and acre. 


On Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:59 -0500, Kilopascal  kilopas...@cox.net  wrote: 





I'd be curious to know what happens when a person asks for pounds and the deli 
counter, sees only grams on the scale and isn't sure if they got what they 
thought they asked for? How does one intelligently shop if they don't know the 
units? 

If a person asks for a pound are they sold 500 g or does the clerk ask them to 
repeat their request using grams? 




From: kilop...@fastmail.fm 
Sent: Tuesday, 2011-01-25 00:07 
To: Kilopascal 
Subject: Re: Australia metric 






On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:30 -0500, Kilopascal  kilopas...@cox.net  wrote: 



[USMA:49576] Re: More dumbing down via NPR 
Pat Naughtin 
Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:36:50 -0800 


I'm sure she never asks for gram at the deli counter and more often then not 
will be given more than she asked for. 


Yes she will, nobody sells anything in pounds, or ounces in shops nor anywhere 
else, except on that obscure site. The staff would not know what ounce is in 
gram. 

-- 

kilop...@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service 
should be 


No virus found in this message. 
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3400 - Release Date: 01/24/11 
-- 

kilop...@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email 
service. 


No virus found in this message. 
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3410 - Release Date: 01/29/11 

[USMA:49705] Ezra Steinberg wants to stay in touch on LinkedIn

[Ezra Steinberg]

LinkedIn


   
I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

- Ezra Steinberg

Ezra Steinberg
Technical Writer at Google, Inc. 
Greater Seattle Area

Confirm that you know Ezra Steinberg
https://www.linkedin.com/e/w9o81o-gjkuko5c-4g/isd/2239441585/bChoKyRc/


 
-- 
(c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation

[USMA:49887] Re: New BIPM web page on the New SI

[ezra . steinberg]

Jim, 

Well, if there were ever an opportunity to anoint the new unit of mass with a 
prefix-less name, this would be it. 

What are the chances? And is there any activity along those lines at all? 

thanks, 
Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: James R. Frysinger j...@metricmethods.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 3:36:37 PM 
Subject: [USMA:49886] New BIPM web page on the New SI 

Dear Colleagues, 

I would like to call your attention to a new web page concerning the 
New SI at http://www.bipm.org that consolidates several papers on this 
topic. This is meant to be an educational body of work to prepare the 
public for what is intended to be a redefinition of SI base units. The 
actual page, which indexes and links to those documents is at 
http://www.bipm.org/en/si/new_si/ 

Implementation of that redefinition awaits refinement of some 
experimental determinations, but the structure of the proposed new base 
unit definitions are now well settled. Since this will be a rather major 
change, the International Committee for Weights and Measures (CIPM) and 
its Consultative Committee on Units (CCU) recommend that education of 
the public should start now, even while the refinement of the 
fundamental values is taking place. It is thus intended that educators, 
authors, and others should be prepared to incorporate the new 
definitions in their materials and will not be caught unaware when the 
actual change takes place. This new BIPM page serves the purpose of 
meeting that intent by providing illustrative articles. 

Regards, 

James R. Frysinger (Jim) 
Chair, IEEE SCC 14 
Vice Chair, IEEE/ASTM Joint Committee for Maintaining SI 10 
Deputy Technical Advisor, U.S. TAGs to ISO/TC 12 and IEC/TC 25 

-- 
James R. Frysinger 
632 Stony Point Mountain Road 
Doyle, TN 38559-3030 

(C) 931.212.0267 
(H) 931.657.3107 
(F) 931.657.3108 

[USMA:50133] Re: Energy bills

[ezra . steinberg]

Excellent letter, Pat! :-) 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 8:50:37 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50132] Energy bills 

Dear All, 


I have just responded to an article at 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/household-bills/8395460/Energy-bills-what-the-jargon-means.html
 as follows: 


## 

You write Kilowatt hours – the standard measurement on an energy bill. This 
is not so. Since 1889 the standard measuring unit for energy has been the joule 
with the symbol J. 


The joule was named by the British Association for the Advancement of Science 
(BAAS) to recognise the research work on energy done by James Maxwell Joule, a 
brewer from Salford in Lancashire. 


The joule is the only measuring unit needed for all the different kinds of 
energy in the world (kilojoules for food energy, megajoules for household 
electricity, gigajoules and terajoules for nuclear reactors, and so on). 


Since 1889, the alternatives are to use joules to measure energy or to use one 
of the old pre-1889 loosely defined words associated with energy. I know about 
199 of these old words but my favourite is the 'barrel of oil equivalent' that 
refers to an oil barrel that never actually existed! 


Cheers, 


Pat Naughtin 
Geelong, Australia 
## 














Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 
Hear Pat speak at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, 
Geelong, Australia 
Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 


Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped 
thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric 
system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each 
year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides 
services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for 
commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and 
in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, 
NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. S ee 
http://www.metricationmatters.com for more metrication information, contact Pat 
at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get the free ' Metrication matters 
' newsletter go to: http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to subscribe. 

[USMA:50277] NY Times using metric only reporting on Japan's nuclear accident

[ezra . steinberg]

While the news from Japan is not good, the reporting in the NY Times is 
noteworthy for its absence of Imperial / USC units: 

Experts estimate that about 7 tons an hour of radioactive water is escaping the 
pit. Safety officials have said that the water, which appears to be coming from 
the damaged No. 2 reactor at Fukushima Daiichi, contains one million Becquerels 
per liter of iodine 131, or about 10,000 times levels normally found in water 
at a nuclear facility. 

Ezra 

[USMA:50286] The FPLA amendment will likely make a difference

[ezra . steinberg]

I am working in one of the data centers run by the company I work for and I 
noticed the bottle of Purell hand sanitizer placed in all of the break rooms is 
marked thus: 

67.6 FL OZ (2 L) 

The product is distributed by GOJO Industries in Akron, Ohio and is bottled for 
commercial use only. 

If the FPLA were amended to allow metric-only labeling, I'm sure the next batch 
of labels printed by GOJO would drop the floozies. And I'm sure lots of 
companies would do the same for their retail packaging as well. 

Too bad we have an uninterested Congress now, especially in the House of 
Representatives. 

Ezra 

[USMA:50308] Re: The FPLA amendment will likely make a difference

[ezra . steinberg]

Does USMA have (at least indirectly) a supportive or at least neutral and 
open-minded contact inside the FMI? If so, that might be the place to start. 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: mech...@illinois.edu 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, April 6, 2011 5:11:22 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50307] Re: The FPLA amendment will likely make a difference 

I just learned today, indirectly, that one of the principal opponents of 
metric-only labeling of consumer products has retired from the Food Marketing 
Institute (FMI). 

Does this mean that approval of an amendment of the FPLA to permit metric-only 
labeling can begin to move forward? EAM 

 Original message  
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 20:38:33 + (GMT) 
From: a-bruie...@lycos.com  a-bruie...@lycos.com 
Subject: [USMA:50306] Re: The FPLA amendment will likely make a difference 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
 
 What a great topic and responses and follow-ups, do 
 we have a mindful level headed reporter in our mist? 
 I think this should be an article in the news letter 
 and hopefully picked up on outside media. It would 
 be great if other articles about other 
 'oppositionist' institutions be written, too. 
 Bruce E. Arkwright, Jr 
 Erie PA 
 Linux and Metric User and Enforcer 
 
 I will only invest in nukes that are 150 gigameters 
 away. How much solar energy have you collected 
 today? 
 Id put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a 
 source of power! I hope we dont have to wait til oil 
 and coal run out before we tackle that. I wish I had 
 a few more years left. -- Thomas Edison♽☯♑ 

[USMA:50382] Re: new director of government relations at Food Marketing Institute

[ezra . steinberg]

As King Henry said to his English troops: 

Once more unto the breach! 
From the ' Cry God for Harry, England, and Saint George!' speech in 
Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III , 1598. 

- Original Message - 
From: mech...@illinois.edu 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: Lorelle Young lorelle...@aol.com, Don Hillger 
hill...@cira.colostate.edu, Valerie Antoine valerie.anto...@verizon.net, 
Gary Brown gsbr...@aol.com, Chris Stone cst...@clarknexsen.com, Don 
Jordan dmjor...@mailbox.sc.edu, Mary Gerke marylge...@yahoo.com, Sandra 
Hanson sandyjun...@hotmail.com, Mark Henschel mhensch...@ccc.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:59:31 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50380] Re: new director of government relations at Food 
Marketing Institute 

Paul, 

Given all of Rosodo's experience in the USDA with international trade of 
agriculture products, this is a great opportunity to persuade the FMI to 
support rather than oppose metric-only labeling of food products! Let's do it! 

Gene. 
 Original message  
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 18:55:40 -0500 
From: Paul Trusten trus...@grandecom.net 
Subject: [USMA:50379] new director of government relations at Food Marketing 
Institute 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu... 

[USMA:50459] New Calculations on Blackbody Energy Set the Stage for Clocks with Unprecedented Accuracy

[ezra . steinberg]

Since we've had some email traffic on improving on the definition of the 
second, I'll share this with y'all ... 

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div684/bbr-050611.cfm 

-- Ezra 

[USMA:50460] Re: Wild Australia

[ezra . steinberg]

Paul, 

The problem is that, even if a program is shot in a metric country like 
Australia, if the show is produced by Americans or distributed in the USA, the 
interviewees or narrators often use US Customary in place of metric (or add it 
to the metric measurements) either because they think they are translating for 
an American audience or because the producer or distributor has asked them to 
do so (and they're paying the bills, after all!) 

So, the good news is that nobody in the chain kvetched (complained) that 
metric was being used. That's my reading of it, anyway. 

Cheers, 
Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Paul Trusten trus...@grandecom.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:46:43 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50454] Re: Wild Australia 

It makes sense that any discourse on Australia would end up being all 
metric, since Australia is all metric. 


- Original Message - 
From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: 2011-05-11 19:51 
Subject: [USMA:50453] Wild Australia 


 Saw a program on PBS last night (Tuesday) called Wild Australia, appears 
 to be a regular series, what was great was that it was 100% metric, no 
 colonial units at all. I need to write to PBS congratulating them. 
 
 Mike Payne 
 
 
 

[USMA:50545] Re: ASDA pound campaign

[ezra . steinberg]

Pat, 

Good on you, mate! :-) 

I fear the fact that Wal-Mart owns ASDA may well have something to do with this 
scurrilous and nefarious reversion to Imperial units. 

Cheers, 
Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 5:38:39 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50543] ASDA pound campaign 

Dear All, 


It would appear that the AIDA company has decided to grovel to the supporters 
of dishonest measures in the UK. 


See: http://your.asda.com/2011/5/27/pounds-or-kilos/comments/35834#comment-form 


I have responded as follows: 



Dear ASDA Chief Executive Officer, 


I don't suppose you consider yourself a liar, a cheat, a saboteur, and a 
traitor. 


In my opinion you are behaving as if you are all of these. 


You are a liar when you don't specify which pound you are using on every label, 
on every product, and on every shelf. I assume that you are using the pound as 
agreed among English speaking countries in 1959. As this pound is defined in 
terms of the metric system all of your 'pound' products should be labelled with 
the words metric pound and not with the single word 'pound' to give the 
illusion that you have reverted to one or other of the many old pre-metric 
pounds. To say pound on its own is simply a lie and a delusion. 


You are a cheat when you use many measures to describe your products. This 
method of cheating through obfuscation has been known for a long time; see 
Deuteronomy 25:14 and 25:15 where they say: 


 Thou shalt not have in thine house divers measures, … But thou shalt have a 
perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have.  


When Bishop John Wilkins invented the metric system in London in 1668, I am 
sure that he had quotations like this in the forefront of his mind. Unlike you 
appear to be doing, he was, after all, seeking honesty for all measurement when 
he devised the universal measure that became the decimal metric system. See 
http://www.metricationmatters.com/who-invented-the-metric-system.html 


You are a saboteur when you choose (through your pounds and ounces campaign) to 
provide an alternative measurement education for all children who attend your 
stores with their parents. Trying to promote dual measurement has been 
academically demonstrated in the USA to impose an extra cost of about 10 % to 
all mathematics education in that country. You seem determined to follow and to 
actively encourage this waste. 


You are a traitor when you promote your arch-conservative approach to 
measurement to create a community for the UK that has multiple measures. The 
Confederation of British Industry (CBI) surveyed large companies in 1980 and 
noted that using metric system units (only) - as opposed the the multiple 
measures that you favour - cost the UK's largest companies 9 % of their gross 
turnover and reduced their net profits by 14 %. Your support for the the word 
'pound' parallels the damage done to the UK culture by Margaret Thatcher when 
she said We have saved the pint and the pound for Britain which led to the 
metric muddle that the UK has still to suffer. 


Yours faithfully, 


Pat Naughtin 
Geelong, Australia 











Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 
Hear Pat speak at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, 
Geelong, Australia 
Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 


Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped 
thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric 
system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each 
year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides 
services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for 
commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and 
in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, 
NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. S ee 
http://www.metricationmatters.com for more metrication information, contact Pat 
at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get the free ' Metrication matters 
' newsletter go to: http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to subscribe. 

[USMA:50567] Re: Unfortunately......

[ezra . steinberg]

The point I take from this is that many stores and small traders continue to 
contribute to the metric muddle in the UK by promoting and keeping visible 
Imperial units in their advertising, store signs (other than shelf labels), and 
Imperial scales (even if only for show). This makes it all the harder for the 
populace to complete the mental shift to 100% metric. 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Stephen Davis stevo.da...@btinternet.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2011 9:46:09 AM 
Subject: [USMA:50566] Unfortunately.. 


.although Mr Humphrey's has moved the goalposts on this debate, (yet again) 
I'm afraid it is correct that there is metric AND imperial signs in certain 
supermarkets in the UK. 

However, I hasten to add, this is for loose fruit and veg ONLY! I don't know 
how widespread it is and I have no reason to believe that the experience of 
certain USMA members shopping in the UK wasn't totally correct - that is 
supposing that they weren't confused by Mr Humphreys mentioning only IMPERIAL 
on shelf edging. Of course, this would be totally illegal, as he well knows. 

Signs for the selling of loose fruit  veg in certain stores in the UK have 
both metric and imperial. There are often scales as well to weigh in either 
metric or imperial but, as I keep saying, these scales are mainly for show 
anyway, The loose goods are weighed electronically in metric at the store 
checkout. 

To recap, I am unaware exactly how many supermarkets in the UK actually do 
this, but it is certainly true that a number of them do this.. 

[USMA:50605] RE: cm vs. mm

[ezra . steinberg]

As I've mentioned before, I have speculated that the advantage of using mm for 
those who are familiar with Imperial is that it helps break the Imperial 
mindset by avoiding any use of fractions (even decimal) and it provides a set 
of numbers for measuring that is clearly distinct from inches (not even close). 

The problem with centimeters is likely a cognitive one for most people used to 
inches. They end up using fractions with centimeters (and often vulgar 
fractions to boot!!!) and the size of the cm is close enough to an inch to 
muddle things up for these folks. 

That's what I suspect is the issue. So, it's not metric that's the problem ... 
it's the mental place where people who are going to convert to metric are 
starting from and the cognitive pitfalls that most people encounter in trying 
to make the transition. Using mm gives them an unmistakenly and completely 
clean break from Imperial, which is why I bet it works so much better for most 
folks. 

-- Ezra 


- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:33:09 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50603] RE: cm vs. mm 

Dear Brian and Harry, 


My discussions about centimetres are based on direct observations that prove to 
me that centimetres have never been used for a smooth, economical, and FAST 
metrication upgrade - anywhere in the world or at any time. 


I have no hatred of centimetres. I only have observations that the use of 
centimetres impedes and dramatically delays any effort you put into your 
metrication efforts. However, that said, if you choose to use the slowest 
possible path to your metrication for yourself, your work group, your company, 
your industry, and your nation then I respect your decision to do so using 
centimetres as part of your approach. I also challenge you to let me know of 
any examples where centimetres have successfully produced a metrication 
transition in an economical, smooth, and FAST way. 


For me, I know that metrication for a company can be done in a single day using 
millimetres and, as I have said before the metrication process can take 200 
years or more using centimetres - it's your choice. See 
http://metricationmatters.com/docs/MetricationInADay.pdf 


By the way, could you please let me know about examples that you have found 
where the reverse is true i.e. that centimetres can be used for a rapid 
metrication transition. I have not been able to find an example of this 
happening. 



Cheers, 


Pat Naughtin 
Geelong, Australia 




On 2011/06/13, at 14:06 ,  br...@bjwhite.net   br...@bjwhite.net  wrote: 




I've always thought the same thing. This whole cm vs mm thing is nonsense. It 
really doesn't matter. 
My skis are 168 cmI know that's 1680 mm. I know 2.4 km is 2400 meters. 
Okwe all get it. That's what makes the metric system so easy. 


So--grab a 250 mL (or 25 cL) glass of wine, take a sip and relax. 


This has to go down as one of the dumbest threads on this list yet-- centimeter 
hatred. Now that's rich. 


 Original Message  
Subject: [USMA:50601] cm vs. mm 
From: Harry Wyeth  hbwy...@earthlink.net  
Date: Sun, June 12, 2011 9:01 pm 
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  
Cc: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  

May I suggest that the issue of mm vs. cm is pretty low on the agenda for 
moving forward with adoption of the metric system in the US? I know that 
Aussies usually refer to short measurements in mm, which is fine. But if an 
American wants to order a piece of plywood cut at the lumber yard as, say, 155 
x 80 cm, I would be really pleased (I once overheard a Kiwi--NZ citizen--asking 
just such a thing). Telling someone that an easy way to know what a cm is by 
referring to his finger can be useful. Same with the distance of 10 cm or 100 
mm with reference to a palm width. I personally find it easier to visualize the 
size of a cat, for example, as perhaps 40 cm long than 400 mm. 

The key to adopting the metric system in the US is just to use it. It doesn't 
matter if people use it incorrectly at first, or use cm instead of mm, or even 
use kms instead of km, or KM, or even kph. What we need is leadership from 
government--this has always been my belief--which could start with, for 
example, weighing mail in grams and measuring postal packages in mm or cm and 
on and on. My favorite easy one would be selling milk in liter dairy cartons, 
as they do in Canada and Australia and probably everywhere else. 

The cm vs. mm debates may be technically interesting, but they do not do much 
toward actually advancing metrication. 

HARRY WYETH 













Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 
Hear Pat speak at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, 
Geelong, 

[USMA:50606] RE: cm vs. mm

[ezra . steinberg]

Actually, this kinda reminds me of total immersion vs translation when 
learning a new language. The only way I ever finally learned French is when I 
spent a year over there surrounded only by French people. In six month I was 
practically fluent (and converting to metric is much easier than learning a 
foreign language). 

Compare this to the years I spent trying to learn French while still in the 
States. It took forever (like Pat's 200 years of conversion when using cm?) and 
I never really did master it as long as I was stuck here. ;-) 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 12:08:37 AM 
Subject: [USMA:50605] RE: cm vs. mm 


As I've mentioned before, I have speculated that the advantage of using mm for 
those who are familiar with Imperial is that it helps break the Imperial 
mindset by avoiding any use of fractions (even decimal) and it provides a set 
of numbers for measuring that is clearly distinct from inches (not even close). 

The problem with centimeters is likely a cognitive one for most people used to 
inches. They end up using fractions with centimeters (and often vulgar 
fractions to boot!!!) and the size of the cm is close enough to an inch to 
muddle things up for these folks. 

That's what I suspect is the issue. So, it's not metric that's the problem ... 
it's the mental place where people who are going to convert to metric are 
starting from and the cognitive pitfalls that most people encounter in trying 
to make the transition. Using mm gives them an unmistakenly and completely 
clean break from Imperial, which is why I bet it works so much better for most 
folks. 

-- Ezra 


- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 10:33:09 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50603] RE: cm vs. mm 

Dear Brian and Harry, 


My discussions about centimetres are based on direct observations that prove to 
me that centimetres have never been used for a smooth, economical, and FAST 
metrication upgrade - anywhere in the world or at any time. 


I have no hatred of centimetres. I only have observations that the use of 
centimetres impedes and dramatically delays any effort you put into your 
metrication efforts. However, that said, if you choose to use the slowest 
possible path to your metrication for yourself, your work group, your company, 
your industry, and your nation then I respect your decision to do so using 
centimetres as part of your approach. I also challenge you to let me know of 
any examples where centimetres have successfully produced a metrication 
transition in an economical, smooth, and FAST way. 


For me, I know that metrication for a company can be done in a single day using 
millimetres and, as I have said before the metrication process can take 200 
years or more using centimetres - it's your choice. See 
http://metricationmatters.com/docs/MetricationInADay.pdf 


By the way, could you please let me know about examples that you have found 
where the reverse is true i.e. that centimetres can be used for a rapid 
metrication transition. I have not been able to find an example of this 
happening. 



Cheers, 


Pat Naughtin 
Geelong, Australia 




On 2011/06/13, at 14:06 ,  br...@bjwhite.net   br...@bjwhite.net  wrote: 




I've always thought the same thing. This whole cm vs mm thing is nonsense. It 
really doesn't matter. 
My skis are 168 cmI know that's 1680 mm. I know 2.4 km is 2400 meters. 
Okwe all get it. That's what makes the metric system so easy. 


So--grab a 250 mL (or 25 cL) glass of wine, take a sip and relax. 


This has to go down as one of the dumbest threads on this list yet-- centimeter 
hatred. Now that's rich. 


 Original Message  
Subject: [USMA:50601] cm vs. mm 
From: Harry Wyeth  hbwy...@earthlink.net  
Date: Sun, June 12, 2011 9:01 pm 
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  
Cc: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  

May I suggest that the issue of mm vs. cm is pretty low on the agenda for 
moving forward with adoption of the metric system in the US? I know that 
Aussies usually refer to short measurements in mm, which is fine. But if an 
American wants to order a piece of plywood cut at the lumber yard as, say, 155 
x 80 cm, I would be really pleased (I once overheard a Kiwi--NZ citizen--asking 
just such a thing). Telling someone that an easy way to know what a cm is by 
referring to his finger can be useful. Same with the distance of 10 cm or 100 
mm with reference to a palm width. I personally find it easier to visualize the 
size of a cat, for example, as perhaps 40 cm long than 400 mm. 

The key to adopting the metric system in the US is just to use it. It doesn't 
matter if people use

[USMA:50629] Re: Fwd: Birmingham Mail article

[ezra . steinberg]

The whole article in the Birmingham Mail is pure rubbish. Bring back Imperial 
and British tradition, indeed! Why aren't these folks clamoring for the return 
to the old pound-shilling-pence currency? 

And the day the USA ever announces a plan (even a 10-year one) to metricate, 
all that Imperial nonsense in the UK will go flying out the window and the 
captains of British industry and finance push the government to get ahead of 
the American conversion. 

Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: John Frewen-Lord j...@frewston.plus.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 2:28:27 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50623] Re: Fwd: Birmingham Mail article 


 As you know the French name stuck to give us a French name for an English 
invention. 

That is a wonderful expression. If only we could get the mass media to pick up 
on this. They won't of course - Don't confuse the issue with the facts and 
all that. 

John F-L 


- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 10:19 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50622] Fwd: Birmingham Mail article 

Dear All, 


I sent this email to the UKIP MEP MIke Nattrass 


## 

Dear UKIP MEP MIke Nattrass, 


I have just read your comments about Imperial measurements for the UK in the 
Birmingham Mail. 

You seem to be unaware that the metric system is an English invention. It was 
invented in England by Bishop John Wilkins in 1668. Wilkins was the first 
chairman of the Royal Society and his invention was published 120 years or so 
before the French government adopted Wilkins invention for their legal 
measuring methods. See 
http://www.metricationmatters.com/who-invented-the-metric-system.html 


Bishop Wilkins called his invention a  universal measure  and this became the 
 metric system  following the translation of the English word, measure, into 
(firstly) the Italian word, metro, and then into the French word, metre. As you 
know the French name stuck to give us a French name for an English invention. 


By the way, I really was really pleased to be able to visit Bishop John Wilkins 
grave when I was last in London. He is buried in the Church of St Lawrence 
Jewry, the official church of the City of London Corporation, where he had been 
vicar from 1662 to 1668. 


Bishop Wilkins, in my opinion, deserves much more recognition of his 
contribution to honesty in all measurement both for the UK and for the world. 
Perhaps you could help with this. 


Cheers, 
## 




Begin forwarded message: 



From: Pat Naughtin  pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com  

Date: 2011 June14 6:36:30 AM AEST 

To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: [USMA:50617] Birmingham Mail article 

Reply-To: pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 


Dear All, 


Dear All, 


The promoters of old pre-metric measuring words at ASDA seem to be spreading 
their dishonest poison that can only do harm to the UK nation, and especially 
to school children. 


See 
http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2011/06/13/walsall-market-traders-back-ukip-campaign-to-resist-metric-measures-97319-28868686/
 where you will see lines like this: 




“I welcome Asda’s decision to use imperial measurements and I hope they 
roll-out the use of British weights to other products. No-one in the UK goes to 
the bar and asks for a litre of beer and people often nip out to buy a pint of 
milk. It was the EU that attempted to destroy our imperial measures. Give the 
EU an inch and it tries to take a kilometre, or should that be 0.621371192 of a 
mile?” 
UKIP MEP MIke Nattrass is obviously unaware that the metric system was invented 
by an Englishman. See 
http://www.metricationmatters.com/who-invented-the-metric-system.html 


Cheers, 


Pat Naughtin LCAMS 












Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 
Hear Pat speak at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, 
Geelong, Australia 
Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 


Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped 
thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric 
system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each 
year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides 
services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for 
commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and 
in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, 
NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. S ee 
http://www.metricationmatters.com for more metrication information, contact Pat 
at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get the free ' Metrication matters 
' newsletter go to: http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to subscribe. 













Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, 

[USMA:50683] Re: Wrong interpretation

[ezra . steinberg]

Pat, 

I'm afraid the answer is more along the lines of Jimmy Carter and his failure 
to help shape a good economy in the USA during his administration. That and the 
Iran hostage crisis sank his presidency  along with his plans to metricate 
the USA. 

Once Ronnie Reagan (aka Mr. Morning in America) came into office, it was Adios! 
to solar panels, metrication, or much of anything else that would prepare us 
for the 21st century. 

Now, instead of Morning in America, the Visigoths have reached Porta Salaria. 
Thus endeth the Empire  

-- Ezra 

- Original Message - 
From: Pat Naughtin pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 5:13:12 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50681] Wrong interpretation 

Dear All, 


I wonder if the failure of the adoption of the metric system in the 1970s is 
widely misinterpreted by citizens of the USA. 


It seems to me that many people in the USA wrongly believe things like: T he 
metric system did not work here. ;  The metric system is not right for the 
USA. ; and  The old measures are good enough for us because metric conversion 
was a failure here.  


I think that these are all wrong interpretations. 


My view is that the wrong metrication processes were chosen for the metrication 
transition in the USA. It was the metrication processes that should be blamed 
for the lack of success for the USA in the 1970s. Chief among these wrong 
choices was twofold. In my opinion, the use of centimetres and the focus on 
metric conversion as part of the metrication processes remarkably slowed 
metrication and pointed the public perception to the wrong ideas about the 
metric system itself listed above. 


The metric system worked fine - and really quickly - wherever better 
metrication processes were chosen. Examples include: choice of whole numbers of 
millimetres in the automotive industry; choice of nanometres, micrometres, and 
millimetres and for internal measurements of television and computer designs; 
and so on. 


Any thoughts? 


Cheers, 













Pat Naughtin LCAMS 
Author of the ebook, Metrication Leaders Guide, see 
http://metricationmatters.com/MetricationLeadersGuideInfo.html 
Hear Pat speak at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lshRAPvPZY 
PO Box 305 Belmont 3216, 
Geelong, Australia 
Phone: 61 3 5241 2008 


Metric system consultant, writer, and speaker, Pat Naughtin, has helped 
thousands of people and hundreds of companies upgrade to the modern metric 
system smoothly, quickly, and so economically that they now save thousands each 
year when buying, processing, or selling for their businesses. Pat provides 
services and resources for many different trades, crafts, and professions for 
commercial, industrial and government metrication leaders in Asia, Europe, and 
in the USA. Pat's clients include the Australian Government, Google, NASA, 
NIST, and the metric associations of Canada, the UK, and the USA. S ee 
http://www.metricationmatters.com for more metrication information, contact Pat 
at pat.naugh...@metricationmatters.com or to get the free ' Metrication matters 
' newsletter go to: http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter to subscribe. 

[USMA:50808] Re: Fwd: Micron vs Micrometer

[ezra . steinberg]

Say, Bill  

While a written article doesn't reveal pronunciation, do you think it is 
worthwhile to remind the folks you wrote to that the word is pronounced 
MIKE-roh-mee-ter to distinguish it from the precision measuring instrument, 
my-KRAH-meh-ter? 

Thanks for following up with these guys. As Jim Frysinger has notably pointed 
out, each drop added to the ocean is an important one. :-) 

Cheers, 
Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Bill Hooper billhoope...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 5:10:58 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50807] Fwd: Micron vs Micrometer 

I'm forwarding a couple correspondences that I sent and received. I was 
pleasantly surprised at the friendly and positive attitude of the recipients. I 
thought some of you might find it interesting. 


(Read second one first to get things in chronological order.) 



Begin forwarded message: 





On Jul 1 , at 2:15 PM, Andy wrote: 





Hi Bill, 

Tom Hausherr agrees with you...micron is really outdated, and he's getting away 
from using that term. Apparently the CAD tools still accept it, but they're all 
switching to micrometer. 

We're going to edit that in his column, and we'd both like to run your comment. 
Is it OK to use your name? If you don't want to use your company name, we could 
just say Certified Advanced Metrication Specialist Bill Hooper. 

What sort of projects do you typically work on? It sounds interesting. 

Glad to know someone's reading our columns. Thanks for the feedback! 

Andy 




Begin forwarded message: 



From: Feedback  feedb...@iconnect007.com  

Date: June 30, 2011 8:33:11 AM PDT 

To: r...@iconnect007.com 
Reply-To: Feedback  feedb...@iconnect007.com  



In Tom Hausherr's excellent two-part article on the metric system, he uses an 
outdated unit name. In the SI metric sysem, the next distance unit smaller than 
the millimetre is named the micrometer, NOT the micron. The name micron is 
outdates by about 50 or 60 years. Hausherr's excellent grasp of the need for 
uniformity in measurement suggests that he would be want to use the most modern 
name for that unit. 
PS I am admittedly not in the PCB industry, but I am a Certified Advanced 
Metrication Specialist interested in the use of SI in all industries. 


























Bill Hooper 

[USMA:50819] Re: Naked juice drinks

[ezra . steinberg]

I know I've seen those kinds of labels; I just can't say if they are strictly 
legal. Though I hardly imagine any company would be prosecuted if they aren't 
for some reason. 

Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Harry Wyeth hbwy...@earthlink.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 9:29:59 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50818] Re: Naked juice drinks 

A slightly different topic: I am wondering if the federal labeling law 
requires that SI be listed last, and in parenthesis. Would it be 
possible for a label to be, say, 250 mL (xyz fl. oz.) or 250 mL (abc 
pints, def fluid oz.). It would help a lot if the metric measurement 
could come first, and not in parenthesis. 

HARRY WYETH 

[USMA:50829] Interesting article from the UK on killing off the calorie

[ezra . steinberg]

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/Education-resources/Teaching-and-education/Big-Picture/All-issues/Food-and-diet/WTDV031524.htm
 

[USMA:50830] Re: Interesting article from the UK on killing off the calorie

[ezra . steinberg]

Gee, thanks for setting me straight, kilo ... 

- Original Message -
From: Kilopascal kilopas...@cox.net 
To: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2011 6:25:57 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50829] Interesting article from the UK on killing off the 
calorie 


Old news. I already sent this to everybody. 




[USMA:50829] Interesting article from the UK on killing off the calorie 


ezra . steinberg 
Thu, 07 Jul 2011 15:06:31 -0700 
http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/Education-resources/Teaching-and-education/Big-Picture/All-issues/Food-and-diet/WTDV031524.htm
 

[USMA:50874] Re: for the USMA: Pat Naughtin--definition of gentleman and a scholar

[ezra . steinberg]

Paul, 

I quite agree with your sentiments. He was an amazing fellow and a fierce 
advocate for metrication. 

Can the USMA consider creation some sort of award or other form of in memoriam 
recognition for him that would bear his name? 

Regards, 
Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Paul Trusten trus...@grandecom.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 4:52:41 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50872] for the USMA: Pat Naughtin--definition of gentleman and 
a scholar 


Dear Wendy, 

Speaking initially on behalf of the U.S. Metric Association, we are in a state 
of shocked sadness. We have lost, first, a most excellent friend, and second, 
one of the entire world's best educators and advocates for U.S. metrication. 
Right now I am thinking of the expression, a gentleman and a scholar, and it 
seems to me that the phrase was coined just for Pat. The work he has done to 
advance the goal of a metric America is so huge. I am sure that all of us who 
knew Pat, whether we have met him or read of him, will have the both of you in 
our fond thoughts now. 

We cherish having known him, and the best memorial to him we could build is our 
redoubled efforts to achieve the goal we share. 


SI ncerely, 

Paul R. Trusten 
Registered Pharmacist 
Vice President and Public Relations Director 
U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
www.metric.org 
trus...@grandecom.net 
+1(432)528-7724 

[USMA:50911] RE: Ditch the viss, govt urges traders

[ezra . steinberg]

Even dictatorship has its limits. 


It would be interesting to see if there is a way to help promote Burma's 
conversion to metric with technical assistance and education (perhaps funneled 
through the UN Industrial Development Organization) as well as providing funds 
to help provide metric scales to farmers and shopkeepers. 


-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 1:38:10 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50909] RE: Ditch the viss, govt urges traders 




I thought Burma was a dictatorship, and assumed that the military junta could 
just dictate what they wanted. 



Carleton 





From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 12:51 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: Ditch the viss, govt urges traders 




Burma moves to adopt the kilogram as the basic unit for commodities trade. 





http://www.mmtimes.com/2011/business/584/biz58401.html 




Ditch the viss, govt urges traders 



By Ko Ko Gyi 
July 18 - 24, 2011 

THE basket, viss, tin and tical would largely disappear from Myanmar if the 
Ministry of Commerce gets its way. 

At a meeting on the development of wholesale centres held in Magwe last month, 
participants agreed in principle to the government’s proposal to adopt the 
kilogram as the basic unit for commodities trade in all townships. 

If implemented, the kilogram would replace traditional, non-metric measurements 
that are used widely in domestic trade. The government is pushing the change to 
make foreign trade, which is conducted exclusively in metric measurements, 
simpler and bring the country into line with its trade partners. 

U Kyaw Htoo from the Ministry of Commerce told traders at the June 24 meeting 
they should discuss the proposal with “all implementing partners” in their 
townships and then present their views at the next meeting, to be held in Muse, 
Shan State, in late August or early September. 

Despite agreeing to consider the proposal, traders who participated in the 
meeting told The Myanmar Times afterwards they thought there was little chance 
of it being implemented in the near future. 

One 30-year-old commodities trader from Magwe said there would be “many 
obstacles” and anticipated strong resistance from farmers. 

“It needs to be negotiated with farmers and will definitely take some time to 
implement. If there are many objections, how can it be introduced quickly? If 
many are willing to support it though, it could be possible,” he said. 

A beans and pulses trader from Magwe with more than 40 years experience in the 
industry agreed producers were unlikely to accept the shift to the metric 
system. 

“In the past we couldn’t even shift from using the basket to the viss. Even 
today sesame is purchased [from farmers] in Magwe using the basket. When 
selling sesame we do so using the viss. Rural people only know the basket and 
don’t really accept any other measure. If we try to use a measure they are not 
familiar with they think they are being cheated,” he said. 

“If this shift is put into practice right now we would have to use two 
different measures: [basket] when and [kilogram] when selling. That’s the only 
way we could do it without disrupting trade.” 

However, traders could also prove an obstacle to the changeover. Most use a 
scale called a kattar to weigh commodities and would be loathe to replace all 
their equipment, said U Kyaw Myint from business information provider E-Trade 
Myanmar. 

“A large amount of money would have to be poured into manufacturing new 
weighing machines. For the country as a whole, the cost would be very high,” U 
Kyaw Myint said. 

“Exporters already use the metric system. But those who do business locally 
just use the prevailing means of measure because it is more convenient.” 

Dr Khin Mar Zaw from the Department of Vocational Training, under the Ministry 
of Industry 2, said the shift to metric system had been completed in more than 
100 countries after the imposition of a law. She noted that, in some cases, 
original measuring units continued to be used for some time – even indefinitely 
– after the metric system had been introduced. 

She said the United Nations Industrial Development Organisation had assisted 
Cambodia and Laos with metrication under a Mekong Region project but was not 
sure if Myanmar would be eligible for assistance. 

Experts from New Zealand had assisted Myanmar in “adapting” the metrication 
laws used in these two countries to Myanmar’s “conditions” and a draft 
measuring technology law had been submitted to the Ministry of Science and 
Technology’s standardisation department during the State Peace and Development 
Council government, she said. 

Dr Khin Mar Zaw said she could not reveal the exact contents of the draft law. 

Myanmar is apparently one of just three countries – along with Liberia and the 
United States – that have not yet adopted the 

[USMA:50912] RE: Ditch the viss, govt urges traders

[ezra . steinberg]

Corrected version ... please reply to this one instead. 


Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 8:46:05 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50911] RE: Ditch the viss, govt urges traders 


Even dictatorship has its limits. 


It would be interesting to see if there is a way to help promote Burma's 
conversion to metric with technical assistance and education (perhaps funneled 
through the UN Industrial Development Organization) as well as providing funds 
to help provide metric scales to farmers and shopkeepers. 


-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 1:38:10 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50909] RE: Ditch the viss, govt urges traders 




I thought Burma was a dictatorship, and assumed that the military junta could 
just dictate what they wanted. 



Carleton 







http://www.mmtimes.com/2011/business/584/biz58401.html 




Ditch the viss, govt urges traders 



By Ko Ko Gyi 
July 18 - 24, 2011 

THE basket, viss, tin and tical would largely disappear from Myanmar if the 
Ministry of Commerce gets its way. 

At a meeting on the development of wholesale centres held in Magwe last month, 
participants agreed in principle to the government’s proposal to adopt the 
kilogram as the basic unit for commodities trade in all townships. 

If implemented, the kilogram would replace traditional, non-metric measurements 
that are used widely in domestic trade. The government is pushing the change to 
make foreign trade, which is conducted exclusively in metric measurements, 
simpler and bring the country into line with its trade partners. 

U Kyaw Htoo from the Ministry of Commerce told traders at the June 24 meeting 
they should discuss the proposal with “all implementing partners” in their 
townships and then present their views at the next meeting, to be held in Muse, 
Shan State, in late August or early September. 

Despite agreeing to consider the proposal, traders who participated in the 
meeting told The Myanmar Times afterwards they thought there was little chance 
of it being implemented in the near future. 

One 30-year-old commodities trader from Magwe said there would be “many 
obstacles” and anticipated strong resistance from farmers. 

“It needs to be negotiated with farmers and will definitely take some time to 
implement. If there are many objections, how can it be introduced quickly? If 
many are willing to support it though, it could be possible,” he said. 

A beans and pulses trader from Magwe with more than 40 years experience in the 
industry agreed producers were unlikely to accept the shift to the metric 
system. 

“In the past we couldn’t even shift from using the basket to the viss. Even 
today sesame is purchased [from farmers] in Magwe using the basket. When 
selling sesame we do so using the viss. Rural people only know the basket and 
don’t really accept any other measure. If we try to use a measure they are not 
familiar with they think they are being cheated,” he said. 

“If this shift is put into practice right now we would have to use two 
different measures: [basket] when and [kilogram] when selling. That’s the only 
way we could do it without disrupting trade.” 

However, traders could also prove an obstacle to the changeover. Most use a 
scale called a kattar to weigh commodities and would be loathe to replace all 
their equipment, said U Kyaw Myint from business information provider E-Trade 
Myanmar. 

“A large amount of money would have to be poured into manufacturing new 
weighing machines. For the country as a whole, the cost would be very high,” U 
Kyaw Myint said. 

“Exporters already use the metric system. But those who do business locally 
just use the prevailing means of measure because it is more convenient.” 

Dr Khin Mar Zaw from the Department of Vocational Training, under the Ministry 
of Industry 2, said the shift to metric system had been completed in more than 
100 countries after the imposition of a law. She noted that, in some cases, 
original measuring units continued to be used for some time – even indefinitely 
– after the metric system had been introduced. 

She said the United Nations Industrial Development Organisation had assisted 
Cambodia and Laos with metrication under a Mekong Region project but was not 
sure if Myanmar would be eligible for assistance. 

Experts from New Zealand had assisted Myanmar in “adapting” the metrication 
laws used in these two countries to Myanmar’s “conditions” and a draft 
measuring technology law had been submitted to the Ministry of Science and 
Technology’s standardisation department during the State Peace and Development 
Council government, she said. 

Dr Khin Mar Zaw said she could not reveal the exact contents of the draft law. 

Myanmar is apparently

[USMA:50913] Re: Apollo 11 - 20 July 1969

[ezra . steinberg]

I agree with John that helping the future space programs at NASA adopt metric 
is a most laudable goal. This could be the silver lining in the current 
retrenchment of NASA's space programs. 


Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: John Frewen-Lord j...@frewston.plus.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 2:19:15 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50910] Re: Apollo 11 - 20 July 1969 


Going back to the original title of this thread, I have just watched a BBC 
program on the last shuttle mission, presented by Kevin Wong, who, although 
British, worked for very many years in Nasa as part of the shuttle team, and 
was granted unprecedented access to areas and people denied to the media in 
general in putting together this program. 

It was a very good program, and it was indeed a sad event for all those who 
were part of the shuttle prigram, some from its very outset, to see it ending. 
Yet, whenever someone who was interviewed used ONLY imperial/USC units in 
describing their involvement, I couldn't help thinking that it was indeed a 
program that was out of touch with the world - not only in terms of its 
measurement units, but also in terms of its incredible complexity and expense. 

The immediate future lies in the hands of the Russians with their Soyuz 
spacecraft - all metric of course. But no doubt a new US space program will 
emerge, likely privately funded, and hopefully this will use only SI. 

Surely this is something that the USMA can promote, and be involved in, as an 
active program - a program that, at present, doesn't actually exist, but as it 
emerges and gathers form and function, the USMA can give solid direction in 
terms of what measurement units should be used. An opportunity that must not be 
missed. 

John F-L 


- Original Message - 
From: Remek Kocz 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 9:20 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50908] Re: Apollo 11 - 20 July 1969 

I always wondered if aircraft mechanics across the world had a dual set of 
tools to accommodate the US-made planes. I guess just as much as the feet and 
miles were forced on the world, so were the USC fasteners. Too bad. 

[USMA:50920] RE: Ditch the viss, govt urges traders

[ezra . steinberg]

I wonder how USMA could assist Burma in their metrication efforts? 


-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 11:10:57 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50914] RE: Ditch the viss, govt urges traders 




Even dictatorships have problems and as long as they give the ordinary people 
“bread and circuses”, they remain in power. 



When South Africa adopted a decimal currency in 1961, they went to great 
lengths to ensure that there was no profiteering. As a result, decimalisation 
was accepted by the population as a “non-political” reform, likewise with 
metrication a decade later. 



The rationale behind the adoption of metrication in Burma is an opening up of 
trade – I am sure that the junta has realized that all their neighbours have 
prospered and that if they wish to prosper, then they too need to open their 
borders. Like South Africa, the junta need some sort of PR to promote changes 
which means clamping down on profiteers. 






From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Carleton MacDonald 
Sent: 24 July 2011 21:38 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:50909] RE: Ditch the viss, govt urges traders 



I thought Burma was a dictatorship, and assumed that the military junta could 
just dictate what they wanted. 



Carleton 

[USMA:50940] Re: FMI mailing list content

[ezra . steinberg]

Hmmm, I wonder if there is a way to talk to that particular author about their 
opposition to amending the FPLA. 

Changing the mind of one or two of the right people in an org can sometimes 
bring about surprising changes. 

Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Paul Trusten trus...@grandecom.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@ColoState.EDU 
Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2011 8:22:27 AM 
Subject: [USMA:50939] FMI mailing list content 


The Food Marketing Institute (FMI) is a trade association of retail grocery 
chains that has made it known it is a major stakeholder in U.S. metrication. 
Since learning of FMI, I have been a subscriber to its e-mail list. The more I 
read it, the more I am impressed with its forward-thinking content. Take, for 
example, the from this morning entitled, 7 Things You Don't have to Do, an 
essay on productivity. The seventh point it made was: 



7. Creativity is never having to grow up 

Instead, it’s about growing younger. It’s about “escaping adulthood,” according 
to artists Kim and Jason Kotecki. Reengage your playful spirit. It’s 
attractive, it’s relaxing and it’s more enjoyable to be around. Besides, 
there’s nothing that can’t be taken lighter. Even the serious issues. Second, 
build a reservoir of positivity. Say yes as often as possible. Especially 
when it would be easier, cheaper and more convenient to say no. That’s where 
creativity lives. And lastly, build enthusiasm into small moments. Your energy 
is your greatest asset. Speak with passion or risk being unheard. Just make 
sure your energy is supported with truthfulness. Otherwise you're just 
passionately incompetent. How creative do people remember you as? 

The above may not apply literally to changing over to the metric system of 
measurement in America, but the spirit of this piece, similar to many pieces on 
the list, seems to me to conflict with FMI's reluctant approach to metrication. 

Paul R. Trusten 
Registered Pharmacist 
Vice President and Public Relations Director 
U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
www.metric.org 
trus...@grandecom.net 
+1(432)528-7724

[USMA:50949] NASA resolutely sticks to USC only in informational materials in English to the general public

[ezra . steinberg]

Once again NASA show it is stuck in USC only despite the fact that this story 
is posted on the World Wide Web (not the USA Web) and all countries (include 
English-speaking ones) use metric as their primary or sole system of 
measurement: 


http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogallery/index.html?collection_id=13587media_id=105110261
 


The story is interesting, but I would have liked to seem them at least add 
metric values to the USC values they stated. 


Is there a useful contact at NASA to ping or is this a lost cause for the 
moment? 


Ezra 

[USMA:50958] RE: [Fwd: Re: [A_A] Running through DC (was Did Amtrak Buy Bad Trains ...)]

[ezra . steinberg]

I would suggest simply deleting any emails from this person. 


However, if there is from time to time something of interest sent from that 
party, you can copy that bit that is of interest, create a new blank email 
message, paste into that blank message, add your own comment, then manually 
insert just the USMA mailing address into the TO: field and whatever sounds 
like an appropriate subject line into the SUBJECT: field. 


That should take care of and it will allow the ban to function as it was meant 
to. 


-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: Norman Wilson nor...@oclsc.org, Robert Madison 
rmadiso...@yahoo.com, USMA usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:38:39 PM 
Subject: [USMA:50957] RE: [Fwd: Re: [A_A] Running through DC (was Did Amtrak 
Buy Bad Trains ...)] 

There is someone on the US Metric Association listserv who has been banned 
also. He can read, but not post, so he replies to someone on the list and 
puts the usma.colostate.edu list address in there too, figuring that the 
recipient will do a reply to all and thereby post his words to the list. 
Unfortunately it works. He is knowledgeable (unlike John Jacob Weisenheimer 
Warner) but tends to pick fights with people he disagrees with. So I'm 
familiar with this tactic and will watch for it. 

Carleton 

-Original Message- 
From: Gene Poon [mailto:sheeh...@ap.net] 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 20:11 
To: undisclosed-recipients: 
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [A_A] Running through DC (was Did Amtrak Buy Bad Trains 
...)] 

John Jacob JingleJackassHeimer Schmidt, aka Peter Warner, has been drinking 
the Kool-Aid again; tried to rope me in and get me to respond to the list 
with his words attached. 

No way... 

He's reading A_A messages, but I don't know what his account is (easy enough 
to join, anyway, with a throwaway address from Yahoo!). Maybe some day 
he'll slip up and post something. Until then, I can't stop him from 
reading. 

-GP 

[USMA:51077] Re: US should weigh up one vital change

[ezra . steinberg]

But a trade name in metric is just fine since the socket drive size is used 
to distinguish the smaller drives from the larger ones, not for the precise 
dimension of the drive (i.e. use sockets for a 6 mm drive wrench to do delicate 
work and keep the 6 mm drive sockets separate from the 13 mm drive sockets). 
Using metric nominal drive sizes gets people thinking metric as opposed to 
inch-pound. 


This is similar in concept to the idea of calling a piece of lumber a 2 by 4 
when its true dimensions are not; the label is nominal and is used to 
distinguish that size from, say, a 4 by 6. 


-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2011 4:23:13 PM 
Subject: [USMA:51073] Re: US should weigh up one vital change 


Maybe as a trade name. My 1/4-drive sockets would fall off a 6 mm square 
drive and my 1/2 sockets wouldn't fit on a 13 mm square drive (interference 
fit.) 

19 mm is so close to 3/4 (50 µm) that it would probably work. 

On a sample of one drive and a few sockets, my 1/4 drive is about 6.3 mm and 
the socket drive openings 6.4 mm. A spring loaded ball secures the socket to 
the drive. 

--- On Sun, 9/4/11, Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com wrote: 



From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
Subject: [USMA:51068] Re: US should weigh up one vital change 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net, U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Date: Sunday, September 4, 2011, 9:54 AM 


Over in Germany I've seen the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 ratchets referred in store 
dispays to as 6, 13 and 19 mm ratchets. I'm not at home to measure one but a 
tolerance of 0,5 mm is fine for the size of a ratchet. 


Mike Payne 



On 30/08/2011, at 20:41 , Kilopascal wrote: 




I can see where using inch trade names for the ratchet handles can lead to 
confusion. One way to solve the problem is not to use a number designation at 
all. Since there are only three sizes with dimensions of 6.5 mm, 9.5 mm and 
12.5 mm, they can be referred to as small, medium and large. 

If you must call them by a dimensional trade name, use the metric numbers of 
6.5, 9.5 and 12.5. 

One thing I like about the Chinese, they aren't hung up on exact conversions 
from USC. They do a hell of a lot of sensible rounding. This makes everyone 
happy. The Americans still think they are getting a real inch product. The 
Chinese round everything to a round metric size before manufacturing and the 
American consumer is totally unaware. 

Having the Chinese build American products assures the products are properly 
metricated to rounded sizes. 





[USMA:51044] Re: US should weigh up one vital change 

John M. Steele 
Tue, 30 Aug 2011 12:26:36 -0700 
I believe he is referring to the rachet handles (the square drive dimension 
that the sockets connect onto) and not the bolts that the sockets fit.

--- On Tue, 8/30/11, Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com
Subject: [USMA:51043] Re: US should weigh up one vital change
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu 
Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 3:01 PM


A 1/4  and a 3/8 you might need, but the 1/2 is so close to 13 mm it should not 
matter. Turns out the 10 mm and 13 mm are quite common bolt/nut sizes. The 10 
mm will fit a 3/8 bolt but might be a bit loose.

The 1/4 inch used to be a common appliance size bolt, but now they are all made 
in China or Korea the 1/4 will not fit anymore.

Mike Payne

On 29/08/2011, at 15:39 , a-bruie...@lycos.com wrote:

 China is defiantly benefitting from our ignorance, if you have a Harbor 
 Freight store in for area, you would know it is 100% China made products, I 
 am defiantly boycotting this store, they sale mostly 'English' tools, no 
 Metric drills of any sort, and some Metric tool sets. People think they are 
 saving money there, but you are buying two sets of tools. No thanks, no more 
 Imperial tools for me, but still need to buy 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 socket set as I do 
 not know of any Metric versions. 
 
 
 Bruce E. Arkwright, Jr
 Erie PA
 Linux and Metric User and Enforcer
 
 
 I will only invest in nukes that are 150 gigameters away. How much solar 
 energy have you collected today?
 Id put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope 
 we dont have to wait til oil and coal run out before we tackle that. I wish I 
 had a few more years left. -- Thomas Edison♽☯♑
 

[USMA:51104] Re: Question about metric highway requirements

[ezra . steinberg]

Good points, Howard. 


Your last observation gives me hope that, if we can ever get the FPLA amendment 
passed, we'll see lots of packaging pop up that is metric only. That will be a 
start! 


Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Howard Ressel (DOT) hres...@dot.state.ny.us 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2011 5:33:53 AM 
Subject: [USMA:51100] Re: Question about metric highway requirements 




With due respect, I think your plan is flawed, you cannot convert the US purely 
on geographical terms. You have to do it a sector or industry at a time. The 
mistake we made with State highway agencies was that we neglected the rest of 
the construction industry. Contractors had to build in English for private work 
and metric for public work. This lead to confusion especially in the supply 
chain. I think the easily first step is the food and packaging industry. There 
are so many examples how it’s easy and causes no problems (i.e. wine, liquor, 
soda for the most part). Converting the rest of the industry would not be hard 
to do. It’s actually happening voluntarily now in many places. Companies 
produce more and more substituted metric sizes and label products in metric 
first or round metric sizes. 






From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
a-bruie...@lycos.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 4:10 PM 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:51097] Re: Question about metric highway requirements 




Yea, it really gets my goat, this is what I propose... 

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Convert-USA-to-100-Metric-System/ 





Bruce E. Arkwright, Jr 
Erie PA 
Linux and Metric User and Enforcer 


I will only invest in nukes that are 150 gigameters away. How much solar energy 
have you collected today? 
Id put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we 
dont have to wait til oil and coal run out before we tackle that. I wish I had 
a few more years left. -- Thomas Edison♽ ☯♑ 



On Sep 7, 2011, Parker Willey Jr. pawil...@pacbell.net wrote: 






I have a question about metric highway requirements. 

In this memorandum: 
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/programadmin/contracts/1108metr.cfm 

Apparently, all state highway agencies have changed their internal requirements 
to use only colonial units and not use metric at all. 

There seems to be a clarification probably to state highway departments. It 
seems to say there is no requirement to use or to not use metric units. Then, I 
assume that a state highway department can use metric in it's designs if it 
wants to and still qualify for federal funding. 

Is that what I am seeing? 

I believe that when foreigners come to the US and see our peculiar colonial 
highway measures, they then will not buy our products as they will probably be 
not dimensioned in metric units. 

How can we push the highway departments to get on the metric system? Any ideas? 

...Parker

[USMA:51110] Re: decimal submultiple of a liter

[ezra . steinberg]

Well, this does look better than half liter since it avoids the use of vulgar 
fractions (even in word format rather than numeric format). 


But to my mind 500 mL is still the way to go. 


-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Paul Trusten trus...@grandecom.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@ColoState.EDU 
Sent: Friday, September 9, 2011 9:07:44 PM 
Subject: [USMA:51109] decimal submultiple of a liter 

HALF LITER used to be the language on the wrapper. This Ozarka package of 24 
500 mL bottles says it differently. Taken at Albertson's supermarket in 
Midland, Texas, USA. 



[image/jpeg:100198.JPG] 




Paul Trusten, Reg. Pharmacist 
Vice President 
U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
Midland, Texas USA 
www.metric.org 
+1(432)528-7724 
trus...@grandecom.net 

[USMA:51188] Re: Highway sign with dual units

[ezra . steinberg]

Yeah, I grew up in that part of Ohio and remember seeing those signs when I was 
a young man back in the seventies. 


I'm sure we got those signs as part of our expected metrication under Jimmy 
Carter. The signs just haven't needed to be replaced yet and no one is up in 
arms about the metric distance being included for such a small number of signs. 
Sadly, those remnants and vestiges of our aborted metrication project will 
likely soon disappear. :-( 


-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: James Frysinger j...@metricmethods.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2011 4:30:06 PM 
Subject: [USMA:51186] Highway sign with dual units 

Seen today on I-75 southbound in NW Ohio: 

Bowling Green 
10 miles 
16 kilometers 

-- 
James R. Frysinger 
632 Stony Point Mountain Road 
Doyle, TN 38559-3030 

(C) 931.212.0267 
(H) 931.657.3107 
(F) 931.657.3108 

[USMA:51196] Re: Suspect Nutrition data?

[ezra . steinberg]

There are LOTS of ways that label could have been fubared. 
-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 11:48:23 AM 
Subject: [USMA:51194] Suspect Nutrition data? 

Found this on the back of a Wine Spritzer, 6 fl oz and 85 g? A direct 
conversion of fluid ounces would have been 177 ml or the same in grams if it 
were water, so something is wrong with this picture. 

Alcohol has a relative density of 0,8 so the true conversion from 177 ml to 
grams would be around 141,6 grams. 

Mike Payne 

[USMA:51230] Re: Draft Metric Pocket Guide

[ezra . steinberg]

Judy, 


I see you got one comment from a USMA member. Thank you for passing this pocket 
guide along. 


Best wishes, 
Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat metcen...@candw.lc 
To: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net, U.S. Metric Association 
usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: hubert110...@hotmail.com 
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 8:41:05 AM 
Subject: Draft Metric Pocket Guide 




Dear Ezra 

Attached is a draft of our Metric Pocket Guide. This Guide is aimed at the 
ordinary man, hence we have endeavoured to make it as simple as possible. 

We should be grateful for review, comments and suggestions of the USMA. 

Thank you 



Best regards 

Judy H. Rene 

Coordinator 

Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat 

1 Maurice Mason Avenue 

Sans Souci 

Castries 

St. Lucia W.I. 

Tel.: (758) 4521541; Fax: (758) 4581642; Email: metcen...@candw.lc 



METRIC IS HERE! Let’s measure up. 

[USMA:51236] Fwd: Article in St. Lucia's The Voice about metrication

[ezra . steinberg]

I thought y'all might find this interesting. 

-- Ezra 

- Forwarded Message -
From: Metrication Secretariat metcen...@gmail.com 
To: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 8:03:38 AM 
Subject: Article 


Dear Ezra 

Have a look at the article in the national news paper The Voice. 


http://www.thevoiceslu.com/features/2011/october/11_10_11/Saint_Lucia.htm 

Best regards 

Judy 

[USMA:51286] Mostly off topic .... but not quite!

[ezra . steinberg]

Here are two amazing segments from The Daily Show (video at top and bottom of 
the article) that do a good job of deploring the current status of science (and 
therefore interest in the metric system, by implication): 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/27/jon-stewart-climategate-debunkin-media-mcrib_n_1034792.html
 

In fact, at about the middle of the first segment, Jon Stewart does a nice 
little bit that demonstrates the regrettable shallowness of too many Americans' 
understanding of the relationship of the metric system to science ... or the 
entire real world for that matter. 

Cheers, 
Ezra 

[USMA:51297] Re: Creating a Saint Lucia Metric Association (or more)

[ezra . steinberg]

Judy, 

Your ideas are laudable and I personally believe worth pursuing. I am cc'ing 
the USMA mailing list to see what kinds of responses you might get from their 
collective wisdom. 

Best wishes, 
Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat metcen...@candw.lc 
To: vliets...@btinternet.com, U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu, 
ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net, Kilopascal 
kilopas...@cox.net 
Cc: hubert110...@hotmail.com 
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 2:05:37 PM 
Subject: RE: [USMA:51295] Re: Saint Lucia Metric Association 




Hello 

I think I was a little upbeat in contemplating the formation of a metric 
association while the Secretariat is still functioning and government is 
committed to the metrication process. We will have to wait for the findings and 
recommendations of the consultancy which is currently underway. 



In the mean time, I was thinking of an association, either private or quasi 
government, that would operate in the interest of organizations to continue to 
assist with training where necessary; assist with maintaining the metric system 
(the Chairman’s visit to Jamaica revealed that there are still substantial 
issues with the country’s transition to the metric system after the disbanding 
of the Jamaica metrication secretariat); the association would continue to 
champion the metric cause. As kilopascal suggested - involve the entire 
Caribbean community. Maybe CARICOM could be approached in an effort to 
encourage those caribbean islands that have not metricated. 



There is a dire need in our country for scientific research, for emphasis on 
scientific innovation and development. Every year schools on the island engage 
in a science fair where innovative and creative ideas from students are on 
display and at the end of the fair all of their work and effort are put away. 
The association could be a means for channeling these innovative ideas to 
companies, for further research and possibly marketing. 

The precise objectives of the association would need some more thought. How 
would companies, students, consumers, and by extension the country and the 
Caribbean benefit? What would be the need of companies, or the country post 
metrication etc.? 

The idea may be vague at the moment but it is always wise to start somewhere. 
Thank you for your honest responses and advice. 



Regards 

Judy H. Rene 

Coordinator 

Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat 





From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Martin Vlietstra 
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 12:26 PM 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Cc: hubert110...@hotmail.com 
Subject: [USMA:51295] Re: Saint Lucia Metric Association 



Hi Judy, 



Forgive me for following on to Ezra’s e-mail. I think that Ezra’s question was 
whether you were looking to form a body that would ultimately be responsible to 
government (maybe at arms length) and be funded by government or are you 
looking to form a private association that would be self-funding and 
independent of government? 



Regards 



Martin Vlietsta 






From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
Sent: 31 October 2011 22:02 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Cc: hubert110...@hotmail.com; usma@colostate.edu 
Subject: [USMA:51294] Re: Saint Lucia Metric Association 




Hello, Judy! 

Thank you for writing and inquiring about creating the metric association. 

I am interested in finding out a bit more regarding the rationale and goals for 
such an association. Both UKMA and USMA were founded in response to the 
government's lack of a metrication program (in the USA) or the government's 
lack of will to complete metrication (in the UK). 

If I understand the situation in St. Lucia correctly, the government there (at 
least the current one) is committed to metricating the country. In that context 
what would the purpose be for a St. Lucia Metric Association? 

All the best, 
Ezra 



From: Metrication Secretariat metcen...@gmail.com 
To: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
Cc: hubert110...@hotmail.com, usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:08:56 PM 
Subject: Saint Lucia Metric Association 


Dear Ezra 


We have been thinking very seriously about establishing a metric associaton in 
Saint Lucia and would be grateful for some guidance on how to go about it. Any 
assistance would be greatly appreciated. 





Best regards 





Judy H. Rene 


Coordinator 


Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat

[USMA:51322] Saint Lucia Metric Pocket Guide comment deadline is Wed

[ezra . steinberg]

Just got clarification from Judy Rene that Wednesday is the deadline for 
comments on their metric pocket guide. 

-- Ezra 

- Forwarded Message -
From: Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat metcen...@candw.lc 
To: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 12:33:43 PM 
Subject: RE: Saint Lucia Metric Pocket Guide 




Yes Ezra, by yesterday would have been fine (laugh) as soon as possible – we 
can wait for Wednesday this week. 

Thank you. 

Judy 





From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net [mailto:ezra.steinb...@comcast.net] 
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 4:15 PM 
To: Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat 
Subject: Re: Saint Lucia Metric Pocket Guide 




Judy, 

It looks like your regular email address is working now? Great! 

Can you send out the deadline for comments? 

thanks! 
Ezra 
- Forwarded Message -


From: Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat metcen...@candw.lc 
To: Kilopascal kilopas...@cox.net, jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net, U.S. Metric 
Association usma@colostate.edu, j frysinger j.frysin...@ieee.org, 
j...@metricmethods.com, ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net, Valerie 
Antoine valerie.anto...@verizon.net 
Cc: hubert110...@hotmail.com 
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 11:55:00 AM 
Subject: Saint Lucia Metric Pocket Guide 




Dear USMA 

We would be grateful for a quick review of the final document before printing. 
Most of your suggestions are in blue. 

Thank you for your final comments if any. 



Best regards 

Judy H. Rene 

Coordinator 

Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat 

1 Maurice Mason Avenue 

Sans Souci 

Castries 

St. Lucia W.I. 

Tel.: (758) 4521541; Fax: (758) 4581642; Email: metcen...@candw.lc 



METRIC IS HERE! Let’s measure up. 

[USMA:51374] Re: Gasoline prices in Puerto Rico

[ezra . steinberg]

The sole exception to the illegality of metric road signs in the UK is that 
dual-unit height restriction signs are permitted in place of Imperial only. (I 
believe this also applies to length and width restriction signs as well.) 


As it happens, the latest ruling from the Department for Transport is a step 
backwards under the Conservative government. Labour (while still in power) had 
proposed mandating dual-unit height restriction signs to reduce the frequency 
of costly bridge strikes caused by truck drivers from the Continent. The Tories 
seem more interested in making a political point than saving money and 
improving road safety. :-( 



-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 3:40:43 AM 
Subject: [USMA:51372] Re: Gasoline prices in Puerto Rico 


Liters are legal for fuel in the US; they just haven't been used except for a 
brief period when prices first went over $1/gallon. When the pumps were 
modified to handle higher prices, everyone returned to the gallon as the unit. 
I think the 1979 date below is when liters were added, but I'm not going to 
look for prior editions. Note that liters are listed first 
(anti-alphabetically) as the Federal government weakly pushes metric against 
State and consumer resistance, but refuses to man up and mandate it. (The 
opposite of the UK where the national government declares local council's 
metric road signs to be illegal.) 

NIST Handbook 44, Section 3.30 (Liquid Measuring Devices) says in part: 
S.1.2.1. Retail Motor-Fuel Devices. – Deliveries shall be indicated and 
recorded, if the device is equipped to record, in liters or gallons and decimal 
subdivisions or fractional equivalents thereof. 
(Added 1979) 


--- On Sun, 12/25/11, Pierre Abbat p...@phma.optus.nu wrote: 



From: Pierre Abbat p...@phma.optus.nu 
Subject: [USMA:51371] Gasoline prices in Puerto Rico 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Date: Sunday, December 25, 2011, 7:53 PM 


I recently took a trip to Puerto Rico. While there, I noticed that gas prices 
are in dollars per liter, and took this picture. The mill's digit is 7, which 
I haven't seen anywhere else. This station is at the corner of Kings Court 
(which turns into something else there) and Calle Loiza, Condado (or maybe 
Santurce; I walked several blocks the wrong way on Loiza and found myself at 
a pharmacy which, according to a bag in my uncle's bathroom, is in Santurce). 
This may have implications on the legality of displaying prices per liter in 
the States. 

On the way back to the airport, I saw a clearance sign in feet and inches. The 
camera was in the trunk, so I didn't take a picture. 

Pierre 
-- 
sei do'anai mi'a djuno puze'e noroi nalselganse srera 

[USMA:51377] Re: ISMP President Michael Cohen on metric-only liquid medication measurement

[ezra . steinberg]

Excellent, Mike! 


Your picture reminds me to ask what the status is for mcg as a symbol for 
microgram. 

- Original Message -
From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:34:02 AM 
Subject: [USMA:51376] Re: ISMP President Michael Cohen on metric-only liquid 
medication measurement 

Every 6 months I have to have an FAA physical. For the last couple of years 
we've had to access a website to input any data, including any medication we 
might be on. I had to write to the FAA in Oklahoma City stating they had all 
the units wrong and I could not fill in the form with the incorrect units used. 


Here is a copy of the letter I sent, at the bottom is a picture of the drop 
down window on the FAA website. Note, that they still have the wrong symbol for 
gram. I'll have to generate another letter! They did act on my letter and 
corrected all the other symbols which previously were GM for gram, MG for 
milligram, etc. 





FAA Civil Aerospace Medical Institute 

Aerospace Medical Certification 

P. O. Box 26080 

Oklahoma City, OK 73125-9914 

Reference: Medical application online. 

Dear Sir or Madam: 

There are major errors on your web site for filling in form 85008 
https://medxpress.faa.gov/medxpress/MedCert.exe/ade85008 

Specifically when entering information “For each medication prescribed, enter 
medication information and click the Add button”. The dosage unit drop down 
list does not list milligram symbol mg. It does however list Mega Giga, symbol 
MG. This seems to be a common error and I would point you toward the National 
Institute of Standards and Technology web site at 
http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/sec04.html for the correct symbols. 

Specifically SI symbols are not abbreviations, they are defined symbols. 

mg = milligram 1 000th of 1 gram 

Mg = megagram 100 000 grams or 1 000 kg or 1 Ton. 











Mike Payne 








On 28/12/2011, at 20:23 , Paul Trusten wrote: 



http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/healthcare/132410488.html 


Paul Trusten, Reg. Pharmacist 
Vice President 
U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
Midland, Texas USA 
www.metric.org 
+1(432)528-7724 
trus...@grandecom.net 

[USMA:51380] Re: ISMP President Michael Cohen on metric-only liquid medication measurement

[ezra . steinberg]

Wow! That looks a pretty snafued situation! 
Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net, usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 1:05:11 PM 
Subject: Re: [USMA:51377] Re: ISMP President Michael Cohen on metric-only 
liquid medication measurement 


I think the AMA only accepts mcg 
FPLA, FDA, and UPLR accept both 
NIST does not accept mcg in SP311, SP 811 
BIPM doesn't accept mcg at all 

--- On Thu, 12/29/11, ezra.steinb...@comcast.net ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
wrote: 



From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
Subject: [USMA:51377] Re: ISMP President Michael Cohen on metric-only liquid 
medication measurement 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Date: Thursday, December 29, 2011, 3:43 PM 




Excellent, Mike! 


Your picture reminds me to ask what the status is for mcg as a symbol for 
microgram. 


From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2011 9:34:02 AM 
Subject: [USMA:51376] Re: ISMP President Michael Cohen on metric-only liquid 
medication measurement 

Every 6 months I have to have an FAA physical. For the last couple of years 
we've had to access a website to input any data, including any medication we 
might be on. I had to write to the FAA in Oklahoma City stating they had all 
the units wrong and I could not fill in the form with the incorrect units used. 


Here is a copy of the letter I sent, at the bottom is a picture of the drop 
down window on the FAA website. Note, that they still have the wrong symbol for 
gram. I'll have to generate another letter! They did act on my letter and 
corrected all the other symbols which previously were GM for gram, MG for 
milligram, etc. 





FAA Civil Aerospace Medical Institute 

Aerospace Medical Certification 

P. O. Box 26080 

Oklahoma City, OK 73125-9914 

Reference: Medical application online. 

Dear Sir or Madam: 

There are major errors on your web site for filling in form 85008 
https://medxpress.faa.gov/medxpress/MedCert.exe/ade85008 

Specifically when entering information “For each medication prescribed, enter 
medication information and click the Add button”. The dosage unit drop down 
list does not list milligram symbol mg. It does however list Mega Giga, symbol 
MG. This seems to be a common error and I would point you toward the National 
Institute of Standards and Technology web site at 
http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/sec04.html for the correct symbols. 

Specifically SI symbols are not abbreviations, they are defined symbols. 

mg = milligram 1 000th of 1 gram 

Mg = megagram 100 000 grams or 1 000 kg or 1 Ton. 











Mike Payne 








On 28/12/2011, at 20:23 , Paul Trusten wrote: 

blockquote

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/healthcare/132410488.html 


Paul Trusten, Reg. Pharmacist 
Vice President 
U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
Midland, Texas USA 
www.metric.org 
+1(432)528-7724 
trus...@grandecom.net 





/blockquote

[USMA:51411] Canada far ahead of us in use of metric .... a reminder

[ezra . steinberg]

i didn't realize Huffington Post had a Canadian edition. But I was certainly 
struck by the way they report the big snowstorm heading to BC: 

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/17/vancouver-weather-storm-canada-snow_n_1211182.html?ref=canada
 

Note also how they mention Seattle and translate the info from the National 
Weather Service (from what must have been US Customary) into metric. 

If only we were as far along as they are both with weather reports and with 
road signs  

-- Ezra 

[USMA:51425] Request from St Lucia Metrication Secretariat

[ezra . steinberg]

Dear USMA folks: 

I am passing along this request for information from the St. Lucia Metrication 
Secretariat. Can any folks respond? 

Regards, 
Ezra 

- Forwarded Message -
From: Metrication Secretariat metcen...@gmail.com 
To: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 6:26:42 AM 
Subject: Re: Greetings! 

Dear Ezra 
Thanks for your response. I enjoyed the long break. The new Government is in 
place, see the new Cabinet in the link http:// www.stlucia.gov.lc/ 


The Chairman of the Metrication Board and I have met with the new minister of 
Commerce, Business Development, Investment  Consumer Affairs, Miss Emma 
Hippolyte to brief her on the metrication project. The consultancy report is 
now in her possession. In the interim, I am in the process of preparing a 
'working document' of 'policies' adopted by various countries in their 
metrication process. I have been able to pick up some from the UKMA report A 
very British Metric; Australia and Jamaica. I would welcome some from the USMA 
if that information is readily available. Policies with respect to the 
implementation of 'hard metric conversion' within various sectors would be 
particularly helpful. 


Best regards 



Coordinator 

Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat 

1 Maurice Mason Avenue 

Sans Souci, 

Castries 

Saint Lucia, W.I. 

Tel (758) 4521541 ; Fax: (758) 4581642 ; 

Email: metcen...@candw.lc ; metcen...@gmail.com 

METRIC – A PATHWAY TO SCIENTIFIC INNOVATION  DEVELOPMENT 










On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 2:33 AM,  ezra.steinb...@comcast.net  wrote: 




Dear Judy: 

Welcome back! I'm glad you were able to take such a long break. :-) 

So, is the new government in place? Are they the ones now in charge of the 
Ministry of Commerce? 

Yes, please do keep me posted on developments! 

Warm regards, 
Ezra 


From: Metrication Secretariat  metcen...@gmail.com  
To: ezra steinberg  ezra.steinb...@comcast.net  
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 6:06:10 AM 
Subject: Greetings! 




Dear Ezra 
How are you? I resumed duty yesterday having gained some additional time off 
for which I had worked. The Consultant's final (confidential) report on the 
implementation of the metrication project was submitted to the Ministry of 
Commerce. We are awaiting feedback on recommendations on the way forward from 
the Cabinet of Ministers. I will keep you posted. 


All the best 


Judy H. Rene 


Coordinator 

Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat 

1 Maurice Mason Avenue 

Sans Souci, 

Castries 

Saint Lucia, W.I. 

Tel (758) 4521541 ; Fax: (758) 4581642 ; 

Email: metcen...@candw.lc ; metcen...@gmail.com 

METRIC – A PATHWAY TO SCIENTIFIC INNOVATION  DEVELOPMENT 

[USMA:51624] Re: Virgin London Marathon 2012

[ezra . steinberg]

Canadian metric usage could be a subconscious way they distinguish themselves 
from the USA (which can be a hard thing to do for Anglo-Canadians). Similar 
process in the UK except they want to distinguish themselves from the EU, so 
they cling to Imperial. Good thing this phenomenon did not exist when the UK 
adopted the decimalized currency or they'd STILL be using 
pounds-shilling-pence! ;-) 

Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: j...@frewston.plus.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 1:17:02 AM 
Subject: [USMA:51621] Re: Virgin London Marathon 2012 




Canadian media has always been a strong supporter of metric usage. The only 
time you may see non-metric is when a US article is reprinted verbatim – even 
then, the Canadian publication may add metric equivalents. 

In terms of distances, Canadians have been using kilometres for so long now 
that a whole generation and a half have little or no idea how big a mile is. 
Car mpg figures mean nothing to them. And, while usage of feet and inches for 
height (and pounds for weight) seems to be taking longer to disappear, most 
younger Canadians are equally as happy using cm and kg. 

John F-L 




From: Kilopascal 
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 2:13 AM 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: Virgin London Marathon 2012 


Here are the results for the Virgin London 2010 Marathon winner Wilson Kipsang. 
It is metric only, even with a min/km pace. 

http://results-2012.virginlondonmarathon.com/2012/index.php?content=detailfpid=searchpid=searchid=030F5ECC83050C12lang=ENevent=MASageclass
 = 

I was curious to see if the event had those quirky mile arches and looking 
through various articles and photos I did find any. But, I did come across this 
Canadian article which was fully metric and even quoted participants speaking 
only metric: 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/canadas-olympic-marathon-record-ready-to-tumble-in-london/article2417353/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtomutm_source=Homeutm_content=2417353
 

Even if Canada is stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to 
metric, it is assuring to know the media doesn't run from metric usage and real 
people on the street do speak metric, unlike in the US and to some extent the 
UK, even though I suspect more people in the UK use metric then the media will 
let on. 





No virus found in this message. 
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4966 - Release Date: 04/29/12

[USMA:51643] Re: British TV Show

[ezra . steinberg]

Now that really is encouraging! 


On the other side, I saw a wonderful science show produced by the BBC about how 
the dinosaurs really went extinct (presumably). It is admittedly a few years 
old now but it was a bit jarring to hear the mix of both Imperial and metric 
used throughout the program. Maybe in 2012 things are a little better over 
there? (Let us hope ... ) 


-- Ezra 


- Original Message -
From: Howard Ressel (DOT) hres...@dot.state.ny.us 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:53:23 AM 
Subject: [USMA:51642] British TV Show 

Episode of Dr. Martin on PBS: Dr. to patient your son will be ok if his temp is 
38, call me if it's higher. Patient later in show: Dr. the temp is really high 
its 99. Dr.: That is Fahrenheit you imbecile. 

Note: not an exact transcript but you get the point. 



-Original Message- 
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Pierre Abbat 
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:00 PM 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:51639] solar homes and the abuse of power 

I bought The New Solar Home to get some ideas for the house I'm designing. The 
book is full of square feet and acres and degrees Fahrenheit, but what irks 
me most about the units is sentences like these: 
p. 102: The most obvious green feature is the 33-kilowatt-per-hour rooftop 
photovoltaic array... 
p. 63: The ten-kilowatt-per-hour photovoltaic (PV) system on the garage roof 
provides all of their electricity... 
p. 32: In the kitchen, a super-efficient Conserv refrigerator-freezer 
consumes only 600 watts per day... 
There's another lulu that struck me as even worse, but I can't find it now. 

Pierre 
-- 
lo ponse be lo mruli po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko 

[USMA:51663] Fwd: Metrication - Saint Lucia

[ezra . steinberg]

Metrication in St. Lucia appears to have suffered a bit of a setback. 

Please see Judy Rene's email below. 

-- Ezra 


- Forwarded Message -
From: Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat metcen...@gmail.com 
To: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net, owner-u...@colostate.edu 
Cc: Director direc...@slbs.org, Anselm Gittens a.gitt...@slbs.org 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:17:35 PM 
Subject: Metrication - Saint Lucia 

Dear Ezra 
As I informed you some time ago, the Metrication Project was handed over to the 
Saint Lucia Bureau of Standards at the end of April 2012. Today is actually our 
(staff of the Metrication Secretariat) final day at the SLBS, we have completed 
the handing over process to the SLBS. 


We were informed that limited funds were allocated in the 2012/13 budget for 
the continuation metrication. However, the SLBS will endeavour to continue the 
process. 


It has been a pleasure communicating with you and the other members. On behalf 
of the past Chairman of the Metrication Board, please extent my thanks and 
gratitude to the USMA and UKMA for the advice and technical assistance given to 
the Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat particularly with the editing of the 
National Metric Pocket Guide. 


Best Regards 
Judy H. Rene 
Former Coordinator 
Saint Lucia Metrication Secretariat 

[USMA:52014] Re: Metric System Still Has Loyal Supporters in the U.S. - WSJ.com

[ezra . steinberg]

It's not just chazerei ... 


... it's trayfeneh chazerei! (Even though that 's redundant since all chazer is 
trayf.) 


http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O999-trayf.html 


-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Howard Ressel (DOT) howard.res...@dot.ny.gov 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:12:09 AM 
Subject: [USMA:52006] Re: Metric System Still Has Loyal Supporters in the U.S. 
- WSJ.com 

If Yiddish can make the US mainstream with words like chazerei (or Chazari - 
one of my favorites Yiddish words by the way), then the Metric system can too. 

-Original Message- 
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Paul Trusten 
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 1:27 PM 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:51980] Re: Metric System Still Has Loyal Supporters in the U.S. 
- WSJ.com 

My sentiments exactly. I was very disappointed, and haven't cooled fown yet. I 
expected Scheck to take the high road on metrication, and he wrote the usual 
chazerei. But the article puts metrication in the spotlight. 

Paul Trusten, Reg. Pharmacist 
Vice President 
U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
Midland, Texas USA 
www.metric.org 
+1(432)528-7724 
trus...@grandecom.net 


On Nov 24, 2012, at 11:49, c...@traditio.com wrote: 

 This WSJ article is not the worst I have seen, but it is typical of the 
 generally worthless touchy-feely articles that even the best journals now 
 engage in. Where are the hard data? 
 
 Where are the hard data about metric commerce? Where are the hard data about 
 the cost of maintaining dual inventories? Where are the hard data about how 
 many U.S. industries have already gone metric, like the automotive industry, 
 but without using metric units in advertising (except for the Chevy Volt). 
 What about the conversion of the household lighting industry last January to 
 fully metric data on CFL packaging? 
 
 Yes, the WSJ could have done a much better job if it purports to represent 
 American business. 
 
  
 On Sat, 24 Nov 2012, Metric Rules Info wrote: 
 
 From today's Wall Street Journal on the front page: 
 Metric System Still Has Loyal Supporters in the U.S. - WSJ.com 
 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732371310457813496273189 
 6422.html?KEYWORDS=Metric+oven 
 
 

[USMA:52139] Re: U.S. and UK metrication

[ezra . steinberg]

Agreed, Martin. 


Conservatives in the USA do something similar when they rail against the idea 
of having a European-style socialist single-payer health care system rammed 
down our throats. :-( 


Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:46:16 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52137] Re: U.S. and UK metrication 




All that the MP is concerned with is votes for himself. The Eurosceptic 
movement has convinced the British public (at any rate the stupid part of the 
public) that metrication is something that is being forced on Britain by the 
EU. Common sense does not enter the equation. 





From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
John M. Steele 
Sent: 10 January 2013 11:24 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:52132] Re: U.S. and UK metrication 





I wonder if the MP has ever considered fixing the daft rules on road signs and 
beer, vs the alternative of wasting teaching hours on obsolete units. 





Imperial - only good for drinking and driving. Nope, I don't think that will 
succeed as a tagline. 







From: Paul Trusten  trus...@grandecom.net  
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  
Sent: Wed, January 9, 2013 1:33:21 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52129] U.S. and UK metrication 





Dear Mr. Percy, 





Thank you very much for your quick reply to my letter and especially for 
addressing the concerns of a foreigner. In the U.S., members of the House of 
Representatives and the Senate rightly refuse to receive email from anyone but 
one of their respective constituents, so I am honored by your expenditure of 
valuable time. Yet, I can also see by your second email that I have pressed one 
of your hot buttons. I assure you it is also a hot button of mine, and has been 
for 38 years. 





I also apologize for my bumbling email-ery. I had wanted to finish my letter to 
you, but if you keep reading my original message, you'll see it is incomplete. 





On that last point I surely agree, except to say that there is confusion enough 
on UK measurements without any change in education. On my visit to Edinburgh in 
2009, I had to ask what the speed limit signs meant. They looked just like the 
ones in Germany: red circle around a number. I learned by asking that they 
meant miles per hour. Perhaps it is time for the UK to change fully to the 
metric system, roads included. My proposal is to finish what was started. 
Partial metrication is not metrication. True metrication is what was done in 
Australia: everything metric, right down to the grams of steak in restaurants 
and the frame of reference in warning signs (no smoking within 5 meters). I, 
above all people, do not want to promote confusion in matters of measurement. 
But metrication cannot succeed without teaching only ONE system. I am told that 
metrication was the goal of your government's actions in 1965, and, as is the 
case in the U.S., where an abortive attempt was made to change to metric in the 
1970s, our countries still have work to do, as neither a man nor a country is 
an island any more. 





Why this obsession with keeping the measurement of only beer in imperial 
measurement? Is milk in imperial? I shopped in Edinburgh, and and found 
consumer products generally to be metric. How can a nation exist with the 
public emphasis on metric in some areas and a different emphasis in others? Is 
there a particular romance in being nonstandard? 





I don't know if you have this problem in the UK, but here in the U.S., the 
cultural prevalence of two systems of measurement, contrary to what you wrote 
in your article, surely does us harm. The healthcare system continues to 
condone the use of teaspoonfuls and tablespoonfuls in medication orders. Our 
Institute for Safe Medication Practices (ISMP, www.ismp.org ) informs me that 
there have been, I believe, about 50 reports of unit mixups that have resulted 
in harm. One teaspoonful is approximately 5 milliliters, so if the units are 
confused, the result can be a fivefold overdose. At this very moment, I am 
involved in working with U.S. authorities to eliminate non-metric units in that 
part of healthcare in which I am involved. 





I want to thank you very much for the opportunity for this dialogue, and I know 
it must be a pain to have your Blackberry get you angry, but I have my iPhone 
doing it all the time (grin). I hope to continue this conversation. 





As I failed to identify myself before, I shall now say that I am, 





SIncerely, 





Paul R. Trusten 
Registered Pharmacist 
Vice President and Public Relations Director 
U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
www.metric.org 
trus...@grandecom.net 
+1(432)528-7724 










- Original Message - 


From: brigg.go...@gmail.com 


To: Paul Trusten ; brigg.go...@gmail.com 


Cc: n...@nctm.org 


Sent: 2013-01-09 11:45 


Subject: Re: It is called the INTERNATIONAL 

[USMA:52214] RE: current status of the Hawaii metric bill, H.B. 36

[ezra . steinberg]

So, the states still have the option of putting up metric-only road signs for 
speed limits and distances? Sure hope so! 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Paul Trusten trus...@grandecom.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:35:00 AM 
Subject: [USMA:52213] RE: current status of the Hawaii metric bill, H.B. 36 


This is a metrication bill, signs and gas included(grin). But, yes, a statement 
on the 1988 act should be added to the bill. Thanks, Phil. 


Paul Trusten, Reg. Pharmacist 
Vice President 
U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
Midland, Texas USA 
www.metric.org 
+1(432)528-7724 
trus...@grandecom.net 



On Jan 22, 2013, at 9:15, Phil Chernack  pcchern...@gmail.com  wrote: 





It would be nice if the bill made mention of the fact that Congress has already 
declared SI to be the preferred system of measurement for the U.S. Also, it 
would be nice if there was a mention of highway signs and gasoline sales. 

Phil 


On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 4:31 AM,  derryod...@yahoo.com  wrote: 

blockquote
I'm going to try to gain more support for this bill. It's one that could set 
the country on a faster path to usage of SI 






From: Paul Trusten  trus...@grandecom.net ; 
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu ; 
Subject: [USMA:52207] current status of the Hawaii metric bill, H.B. 36 
Sent: Tue, Jan 22, 2013 9:00:44 AM 



http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HBbillnumber=36year=2013
 



/blockquote

[USMA:52233] RE: current status of the Hawaii metric bill, H.B. 36

[ezra . steinberg]

Since Hawaii has no land borders with another U.S. state, it can certainly put 
up metric road signs if it chooses to (barring some surprise ruling or 
regulation coming from the Feds). 


One advantage that would have (besides attracting more Asian tourists and 
investors) would be to make Hawaii seem even more exotic to American mainland 
tourists than it already is. Another feature to be added to the islands! :-) 


-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 5:32:39 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52223] RE: current status of the Hawaii metric bill, H.B. 36 



It was made legal years (decades??) ago. It was actually done for a while when 
price went over $1/gallon. When they got new pumps, they went back. I don't 
think the law legalizing it was ever changed; just nobody does it. 




From: derryod...@yahoo.com derryod...@yahoo.com 
To: jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net; 
usma@colostate.edu usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tue, January 22, 2013 8:24:12 PM 
Subject: RE: [USMA:52220] RE: current status of the Hawaii metric bill, H.B. 36 


What's the situation with gas pumps? Isn't it legal to sell gas by the 
liter? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't pumps covered under the UPLR? Just 
wondering. 






From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net; 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu; 
Subject: [USMA:52220] RE: current status of the Hawaii metric bill, H.B. 36 
Sent: Wed, Jan 23, 2013 1:14:25 AM 




Maybe. I tend to think so, but the situation is confusing. 

The regulations relative to signs are in the MUTCD (Manual for Unniform Traffic 
Control Devices). The actual detailed specs for the signs (including example 
messages) are in SHSM (Standard Highway Signs and Markings). 

The latest MUTCD (2009) removed all metric message examples and moved all 
metric dimensions to an appendix. Nothing says they are now illegal, the 
rationale was nobody uses them, lets simplify the book. But a companion SHSM 
has never been issued. So far, they have retained 2004 SHSM and issued a 2012 
Supplement only for sample layouts of new signs. The metric message examples 
are still in 2004 SHSM, but are removed from 2009 MUTCD. 

It seems to me if any State wanted to use metric signs, it would want to check 
with the Feds for an opinion, but there are no words that say they have become 
unlawful with the latest edition. Given their presence in 2004 SHSM, there 
seems to be adequate layout guidance. Sadly, no State wants to. IF Hawaii 
passes that bill, 50-0 would become 49-1, but it would be a start.. 




From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tue, January 22, 2013 6:17:50 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52214] RE: current status of the Hawaii metric bill, H.B. 36 


So, the states still have the option of putting up metric-only road signs for 
speed limits and distances? Sure hope so! 

-- Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Paul Trusten trus...@grandecom.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:35:00 AM 
Subject: [USMA:52213] RE: current status of the Hawaii metric bill, H.B. 36 


This is a metrication bill, signs and gas included(grin). But, yes, a statement 
on the 1988 act should be added to the bill. Thanks, Phil. 


Paul Trusten, Reg. Pharmacist 
Vice President 
U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
Midland, Texas USA 
www.metric.org 
+1(432)528-7724 
trus...@grandecom.net 



On Jan 22, 2013, at 9:15, Phil Chernack  pcchern...@gmail.com  wrote: 





It would be nice if the bill made mention of the fact that Congress has already 
declared SI to be the preferred system of measurement for the U.S. Also, it 
would be nice if there was a mention of highway signs and gasoline sales. 

Phil 


On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 4:31 AM,  derryod...@yahoo.com  wrote: 

blockquote

I'm going to try to gain more support for this bill. It's one that 
could set the country on a faster path to usage of SI 






From: Paul Trusten  trus...@grandecom.net ; 
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu ; 
Subject: [USMA:52207] current status of the Hawaii metric bill, H.B. 36 
Sent: Tue, Jan 22, 2013 9:00:44 AM 



http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HBbillnumber=36year=2013
 



/blockquote

[USMA:52282] RE: FW: Fwd: The Metric System, the United States of America, and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed

[ezra . steinberg]

Of course! A meeting in Hawaii while it's the dead of winter on the mainland! 


(Now why didn't I think of that. ;-) 


Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: derryod...@yahoo.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:44:50 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52281] RE: FW: Fwd: The Metric System, the United States of 
America, and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed 

100% open to that idea. We could share ideas and coordinate efforts to promote 
metric usage. A meeting sounds like a great idea. 






From: JohnAltounji phy...@msn.com; 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu; 
Subject: [USMA:52279] FW: Fwd: The Metric System, the United States of America, 
and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed 
Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 6:00:43 AM 





The more similar work, the better. I thinks, we should have cross links between 
all the web pages and blogs, etc… 

What about meeting each other (metric people), conference style? 



Special thanks to the pioneers at USMA. 




John Altounji 

One size does not fit all. 
Social promotion ruined Education. 





From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
laander...@comcast.net 
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 8:45 PM 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:52278] Fwd: The Metric System, the United States of America, and 
Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed 




Hi everyone. My name is Linda Anderman and the metric documentary referenced in 
the second to the last paragraph of the blog is the one I'm working on. 

I will have very big news on the project in the next couple of weeks. 

I've been waiting for the right time to introduce myself and this seemed like 
as good a time as any. 

I'll have more news very soon. Promise. 
- Original Message -


From: i...@metricrules.org 
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 6:16:37 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52277] The Metric System, the United States of America, and 
Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed 

Very timely and the writer works at the Smithsonian! Great comics 

http://blogs.plos.org/scied/2013/01/28/the-metric-system-united-states-of-america-and-scientific-literacy/
 


Sent from my iPad

[USMA:52300] RE: FW: Fwd: The Metric System, the United States of America, and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed

[ezra . steinberg]

mid-winter is factual ... dead of winter is evocative. (Can't you just feel 
the chill in that second phrase? ;-0 

- Original Message -
From: Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com 
To: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net, U.S. Metric Association 
usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 2:54:50 AM 
Subject: RE: [USMA:52282] RE: FW: Fwd: The Metric System, the United States of 
America, and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed 




It is also mid-winter in Hawaii, only just not as cold as say New York or 
Chicago! J 





From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
Sent: 29 January 2013 23:57 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:52282] RE: FW: Fwd: The Metric System, the United States of 
America, and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed 




Of course! A meeting in Hawaii while it's the dead of winter on the mainland! 





(Now why didn't I think of that. ;-) 





Ezra 
- Original Message -


From: derryod...@yahoo.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 12:44:50 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52281] RE: FW: Fwd: The Metric System, the United States of 
America, and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed 

100% open to that idea. We could share ideas and coordinate efforts to promote 
metric usage. A meeting sounds like a great idea. 








From: JohnAltounji  phy...@msn.com ; 
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu ; 
Subject: [USMA:52279] FW: Fwd: The Metric System, the United States of America, 
and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed 
Sent: Tue, Jan 29, 2013 6:00:43 AM 


The more similar work, the better. I thinks, we should have cross links between 
all the web pages and blogs, etc… 

What about meeting each other (metric people), conference style? 



Special thanks to the pioneers at USMA. 




John Altounji 

One size does not fit all. 
Social promotion ruined Education. 





From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [ mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu ] On Behalf Of 
laander...@comcast.net 
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 8:45 PM 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:52278] Fwd: The Metric System, the United States of America, and 
Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed 




Hi everyone. My name is Linda Anderman and the metric documentary referenced in 
the second to the last paragraph of the blog is the one I'm working on. 

I will have very big news on the project in the next couple of weeks. 

I've been waiting for the right time to introduce myself and this seemed like 
as good a time as any. 

I'll have more news very soon. Promise. 



From: i...@metricrules.org 
To: U.S. Metric Association  usma@colostate.edu  
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 6:16:37 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52277] The Metric System, the United States of America, and 
Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed 

Very timely and the writer works at the Smithsonian! Great comics 

http://blogs.plos.org/scied/2013/01/28/the-metric-system-united-states-of-america-and-scientific-literacy/
 


Sent from my iPad 

[USMA:52485] Metric-only label meeting in Washington, DC --- help needed

[ezra . steinberg]

Anyone on this list able to help out with this request from the UKMA? (This 
message was sent today to the UKMA mailing list.) 

thanks, 
Ezra 

= 

Dear Colleagues: 

I am writing as a matter of urgency to draw your attention to a meeting in 
Washington DC, where it would be very helpful if the case for metric-only 
labelling could be presented as part of the removal of regulatory barriers 
issue. The details are at the bottom of the web page referenced below. It may 
be too late to get a hearing, but it may still be worth a try. 

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/international/cooperating-governments/usa/jobs-growth/index_en.htm
 

If any of you know anybody within range of DC who could attend, perhaps they 
could be alerted? I would like to think that NIST also have it covered, but it 
may be worth inquiring. 

Looking further ahead, I would suggest that you keep this issue on your radar. 
I hope there will be other opportunities to ensure that the issue is addressed. 

Robin Paice 
Chairman, UK Metric Association 

[USMA:52486] Re: Metric-only label meeting in Washington, DC --- help needed

[ezra . steinberg]

Ah, I forgot to add Robin Paice on the cc line. 

Please respond with Reply All so Robin is included in your response (to the 
email I sent below). 

Thanks again! 
Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: ezra steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: USMA usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2013 9:36:10 PM 
Subject: Metric-only label meeting in Washington, DC --- help needed 


Anyone on this list able to help out with this request from the UKMA? (This 
message was sent today to the UKMA mailing list.) 

thanks, 
Ezra 

= 

Dear Colleagues: 

I am writing as a matter of urgency to draw your attention to a meeting in 
Washington DC, where it would be very helpful if the case for metric-only 
labelling could be presented as part of the removal of regulatory barriers 
issue. The details are at the bottom of the web page referenced below. It may 
be too late to get a hearing, but it may still be worth a try. 

http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/policies/international/cooperating-governments/usa/jobs-growth/index_en.htm
 

If any of you know anybody within range of DC who could attend, perhaps they 
could be alerted? I would like to think that NIST also have it covered, but it 
may be worth inquiring. 

Looking further ahead, I would suggest that you keep this issue on your radar. 
I hope there will be other opportunities to ensure that the issue is addressed. 

Robin Paice 
Chairman, UK Metric Association 

[USMA:52677] Re: BBC gets the future right and wrong at once.

[ezra . steinberg]

Consequence of the UK having abandoned its plans dating back to the sixties of 
converting all road signs to metric (including speed limits). 


sigh 

- Original Message -
From: Remek Kocz rek...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 8:32:56 AM 
Subject: [USMA:52675] BBC gets the future right and wrong at once. 


BBC has an occasional news segment entitled News 2050.  This one caught my eye, 
as the headline was metric: 
  
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130327-news-2050-1m-tower-opens 
  
Indeed, they do a nice job with the 10,000 meter height, no feet equivalents 
and an appropriate comparison to Mt. Everest is made.  Shortly after, though, 
they drop the ball an state that the tower can witstand winds of 180mph 
velocity.  Oh well. 
  
Remek

[USMA:52774] Re: Completely metric movie trailer.

[ezra . steinberg]

I wonder if USMA could form a film industry relations office within USMA. 
This is a fancy term for finding someone who will focus on getting to know 
folks in Hollywood who produce sci-fi films, documentaries, etc. so as to 
encourage them to use SI only. 


Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Remek Kocz rek...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:36:20 AM 
Subject: [USMA:52771] Re: Completely metric movie trailer. 



Yes, saw the Oblivion trailers as well. Very disappointed in the USC in the far 
off future. I'm not sure if the whole movie is like that. Some movies will use 
a puzzling mixture of USC and metric. Iron Man 3, for instance, uses degrees 
Celsius to describe the explosion temperatures which are a key element in plot, 
but alongside that distances are in yards, feet, and miles. 









On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Ressel, Howard (DOT)  
howard.res...@dot.ny.gov  wrote: 






Oblivion was the other side, used miles and English. 




From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto: owner-u...@colostate.edu ] On Behalf Of 
Remek Kocz 
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 10:35 PM 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:52769] Completely metric movie trailer. 





Trailer for After Earth, a sci-fi movie coming out soon: 





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5oyX2bVvEw 


It's a rare thing for a movie to contain metric, even rarer for a preview. This 
one's real. 

[USMA:52780] Re: Presentation to US Department of Commerce on update of FPLA

[ezra . steinberg]

Both of the links send me to Outlook.com. Why? 


And what do you do if you don't have an account there, don't want to sign up 
for one, and still want to see the presentation and the video? 


thanks, 
Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Henschel Mark mw-hensch...@neiu.edu 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu, eugene a mechtly 
mech...@illinois.edu 
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 11:39:26 AM 
Subject: [USMA:52778] Presentation to US Department of Commerce on update of 
FPLA 

Here are the links to the video and power point I created to present to the US 
Chamber of Commerce in support of the EU-US High Commission Forum on 
Transatlantic Trade. 
I spoke for five minutes on April 10 (Hectoday) to the Forum when I was in 
Washington, DC. Later they said I could prepare something for their website, 
and I created a video (After trying four different cameras and numerous 
takes. 

Then that was too long (one gigabyte, about five minutes) so they offered to 
post a power point presentation, link is below. 


I must say I got a lot of applause for my presentation. The only not so bright 
spot was the guy from the center for Science in the Public Interest who somehow 
claimed it would cost too much money to go metric (even though most places have 
done it for free) and that American culture could not accept metric, even 
though British and Australian and South African and Canadian culture has 
accepted metric recently). 

I hope to write a notice in Metric Today about my trip to this forum, but in 
the meantime feel free to view the video and power point. I really think we 
need to get support from the large companies for this, they already have 
lobbyists who could be directed to work on the FPLA metric only update. 


Also, the link for the five minute (one gigabyte) video on the FPLA update can 
be found here: 


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gzphmxqpmxxy0mx/IEqPpyGnE1 




From: Sedler, Jesse [jsed...@uschamber.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 2:49 PM 
To: Mark W Henschel 
Subject: Unable to view Power Point presentation 




Hi Mr. Henschel, 



I just uploaded the version of the PowerPoint that you recently sent to the GRC 
inbox. It should be working now. Please let me know if you need anything else. 

https://www.uschamber.com/grc/presentations-us-eu-high-level-regulatory-cooperation-forum
 



Best, 



Jesse 







Jesse Sedler 

Staff Assistant, International Policy 

U.S. Chamber of Commerce 

1615 H Street NW 

Washington D.C., 20062 

(202) 463-5435 

http://www.uschamber.com 


- Original Message - 
From: j...@frewston.plus.com 
Date: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:06 pm 
Subject: [USMA:52776] Re: Free Trade with the European Union 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu 

 It must be noted that the the EU offered a concession to permit 
 dual 
 labelling on US products sold in the EU, on the basis that such 
 a show of 
 'good faith' would be reciprocated by permitting metric-only 
 labelling in 
 the US. The EU is still waiting for a similar show of 'good 
 faith' from the 
 US 
 
 -Original Message- 
 From: mechtly, eugene a 
 Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 5:55 PM 
 To: U.S. Metric Association 
 Cc: mechtly, eugene a 
 Subject: [USMA:52775] Free Trade with the European Union 
 
 New negotiations are beginning to establish Free Trade with the 
 European 
 Union by removing obstacles. 
 
 President Obama recently nominated Michael Froman to be the next 
 Chief US 
 Trade Representative to lead these negotiations. 
 
 One of the most glaring obstacles to Free Trade is the part of 
 the US Fair 
 Packaging and Labeling Act (FPLA) 
 that *requires* inclusion of non-SI units of measurement on the 
 labels of 
 many products made in the US. 
 
 Here is an opportunity that we *must not miss* to persuade the 
 chief 
 negotiator (and eventually the US Congress) to amend the FPLA to 
 at least 
 *permit* SI-only units on the labeling of all products made in 
 the US. 
 
 Who is willing to try to persuade Michael Froman of the 
 importance of this 
 amending the FPLA? 
 
 Eugene Mechtly 
 
 
 
 - 
 No virus found in this message. 
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
 Version: 2013.0.3336 / Virus Database: 3162/6327 - Release Date: 
 05/15/13 
 

[USMA:52847] Re: FAGE lowfat yogurt new 1000g container.

[ezra . steinberg]

Of course, this makes me wonder why they didn't just put 1 kg. 


Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: cont...@metricpioneer.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, June 2, 2013 10:53:21 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52846] Re: FAGE lowfat yogurt new 1000g container. 

Attached image shows FAGE Greek Yogurt 1000g container. 

David Pearl MetricPioneer.com 503-428-4917 

- Message from edws...@gmail.com - 
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2013 22:04:28 -0700 
From: Edward Schlesinger edws...@gmail.com 
Reply-To: edws...@gmail.com 
Subject: [USMA:52845] FAGE lowfat yogurt new 1000g container. 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 


 Hello everyone. The other day while I went grocery shopping I discovered 
 FAGE (pronouced fayeh) brand yogurt sold in 1000g (35.3 oz) container 
 instead of 32 oz or 680g (24oz) of the other brands of yogurt. This is 
 something because usually dairy products in California are sold in USC 
 amounts by California Weights and Measures guidelines. I do not know if 
 there has been a change in milk shall be sold in pints, quarts, gallon, 
 guidelines. 
 
 -- 
 Sincerely, 
 Edward B. 
 


- End message from edws...@gmail.com - 

[USMA:52918] Re: Guidance from export.gov

[ezra . steinberg]

The language of a date for metric-only labeling to kick in was simply removed 
in the last go-round. :-( 
Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 3:57:29 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52916] Re: Guidance from export.gov 



The 2nd point is out of date. However, I am a little confused on whether the EU 
has permanently abandoned this or kicked the can to 2020. 




From: mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu 
Sent: Tue, June 11, 2013 3:07:22 PM 
Subject: [USMA:52914] Guidance from export.gov 


Guidance on preference for metric units is given at export.gov to exporters: 

... United States' trading partners require at least dual labeling (U.S. units 
and metric units), if not metric-only measurement units on product labels... 

... the European Union (EU) currently allows dual labeling ... but on January 
1, 2010 all products sold in the EU will require metric-only labeling. ( Will 
the new Free Trade Agreement with the EU enforce this requirement?) 

The Trade Information Center at export.gov adds the guidance: 

... many kinds of equipment must be engineered in the metric-system for 
integration with other pieces of equipment or for compliance with the standards 
of a given country ... 

... U.S. firms that compete successfully in the global market realize that 
conversion to metric measurements is an important detail in selling to overseas 
customers ... 

... Even with consumer products, packaging and describing contents in metric 
measurements (e.g. kilograms, liters) can be important ... 

Amending the FPLA to *permit* metric-only labeling *domestically* is important 
to harmonize product labels with labels on exports to the EU, and to other 
countries in the World Trade Organization, when metric-only labeling is 
enforced! 

Eugene Mechtly 

[USMA:52925] Bad sign re: Canada and metrication

[ezra . steinberg]

I was listening to As It Happens from the CBC last night. A French Canadian 
marine biologist was being interviewed about a whale constrained by a crab pot 
that they were trying to free. 

When asked how big the crab pot was, he unreservedly used feet instead of 
meters. :-( 

After all these years of metrication and even with the influence of the metric 
used in French TV shows, magazines, etc. which abound in Quebec, this guys 
still used feet. 

Maybe he was translating from meters since he was on the English language 
radio network, but it still is a sad reminder of the bad influence of the USA 
on Canada when it comes to metric usage. 

Ezra 

[USMA:52966] Looks like we have a ways to go ...

[ezra . steinberg]

... to achieve numeracy. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/work-math-fails_n_3442834.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular
 

Time for adding metric to the mix and beefing up the math? 

Ezra 

[USMA:53064] Possible redefinition of the second?

[ezra . steinberg]

Pretty amazing! 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23231206 

[USMA:53082] Re: Fluke

[ezra . steinberg]

Data center work is always done using Celsius in my experience. 
Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 12:30:59 PM 
Subject: [USMA:53077] Fluke 

Interesting video showing a Fluke infrared thermometer, interestingly it's all 
in Celsius with an American accent doing the talking. It was a click thru add 
on my local Wunderground.com weather. 

Mike 
 
 http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/WheretoBuy/promotions/promo-temp/vt02-experience?gclid=CPnEvPfAr7gCFUqY4AodhkYAcw
  

[USMA:53124] Is Space Launch System being designed in US Customary?

[ezra . steinberg]

I just read an article saying that the Space Launch System just passed its 
design review. 

However, based on this other article, I'm wondering if the SLS is being 
designed in US Customary units instead of SI: 

http://www.space.com/12957-nasa-giant-rocket-space-launch-system-infographic.html
 

Does anyone happen to know? 

Regards, 
Ezra 

[USMA:53222] Has National Geographic switched to metric on TV?

[ezra . steinberg]

I've just looked at a few nature videos from National Geographic that were 
uploaded to YouTube and was surprised to hear all the narration using metric 
only. 


At first I thought there was British (or South African) involvement because the 
first narrator I heard was a Brit (or South African). But the third video had 
an American narrator and everything was still done in metric only. 


Is this a deliberate shift on the part of the National Geographic division that 
does nature videos? (If so, it is most welcome! And let's hope it sticks. :-) 


Ezra 

[USMA:53225] RE: Has National Geographic switched to metric on TV?

[ezra . steinberg]

Here are 3 National Geo videos I watched that used only SI throughout. Amazing! 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCDv-mNJT7s 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N01U435YhfY 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3LevjGEbZw (with Viet-Namese subtitles! :-) 


Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, September 3, 2013 9:52:56 AM 
Subject: [USMA:53224] RE: Has National Geographic switched to metric on TV? 




Unlike the AP, they do have the correct symbol for kilometers per hour. 



Carleton 





From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 09:35 
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:53222] Has National Geographic switched to metric on TV? 




If it is on YouTube, can you post the links so the rest of us can see? 





I can think of a number of reasons why. In the past if anyone wrote to National 
Geographic and asked them to do metric, the response they were always given was 
that National Geographic's primary audience was American and surveys of 
Americans always resulted in a demand for USC only. This may be changing and 
the influence of the world wanting metric is more important than the smaller US 
audience wanting USC. You can't ignore the world anymore. 





It is also possible these programs are increasingly being produced by 
non-Americans who use metric. The programs are then bought by National 
Geographic and they stick their name on it. The American narrator may just be a 
voice over who follows the script of a non-American. 





Here is National Geographic's style guide on unit use: 





http://stylemanual.ngs.org/home/M/metric-international-measurement 






METRIC AND INTERNATIONAL MEASUREMENT 





METRIC AND OTHER INTERNATIONAL UNITS OF MEASUREMENT 

N ATIONAL G EOGRAPHIC uses standard measurements except in natural history and 
science articles where metric, if appropriate, may be substituted. 

Supplement maps generally use standard measurements with metric in parentheses. 

Weight and measures may be abbreviated in credit lines and map notes. Such 
abbreviations do not take periods; plurals do not add s or es : 
vase 12 cm, 16 mm, f/22, 11 sq mi, three hr, 8-in snake, 11 min 30 sec, 49-yr 
span. 


Note their style guide uses incorrect symbols for hours and seconds. 







[USMA:53222] Has National Geographic switched to metric on TV? 


ezra . steinberg Mon, 02 Sep 2013 21:42:30 -0700 
I've just looked at a few nature videos from National Geographic that were 
uploaded to YouTube and was surprised to hear all the narration using metric 
only. At first I thought there was British (or South African) involvement 
because the first narrator I heard was a Brit (or South African). But the third 
video had an American narrator and everything was still done in metric only. Is 
this a deliberate shift on the part of the National Geographic division that 
does nature videos? (If so, it is most welcome! And let's hope it sticks. :-) 
Ezra 




http://www.mail-archive.com/usma@colostate.edu/msg42220.html 

[USMA:53248] Re: metric only labeling vs legacy measures labeling requirements

[ezra . steinberg]

Well summarized, Paul! 


Given the pivotal role New York State now plays in both completing coverage in 
the USA of the UPLR and providing a springboard for passing the permissive 
metric-only amendment to the FPLA, can you tell us where things stand regarding 
New York amending their state law to allow metric-only labeling per the UPLR? 


thanks! 
Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: Paul Trusten trus...@mygrande.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2013 9:23:52 PM 
Subject: [USMA:53247] Re: metric only labeling vs legacy measures labeling 
requirements 


Parker, 


The state-level permissive metric-only labeling regulation is a part of the 
Uniform Packaging and Labeling Regulation (UPLR) as written by the National 
Conference on Weights and Measures. As of now, we are down to only one U.S. 
jurisdiction that has not adopted the UPLR amendment, and that is New York 
State. The UPLR amendment affects only those products whose labeling is not 
regulated by federal law. 


That federal law is the Fair Packaging and Labeling Act (FPLA), which still 
requires that both metric and legacy units be included on the labels it 
regulates. But a unanimous stand on UPLR among the states, DC, and territories 
would make a similar amendment to the FPLA much more arguable if not 
inevitable. 

Paul Trusten, Registered Pharmacist 
Vice President and Public Relations Director 

U.S. Metric Association, Inc. 
Midland, Texas, USA 
+1(432)528-7724 
www.metric.org 
trus...@grandecom.net 




On Sep 13, 2013, at 17:30, Parker Willey Jr.  pawil...@pacbell.net  wrote: 






Hi 



I remember reading about the FPLA and that metric only labeling is permitted in 
all but if I remember correctly, 2 states, Alabama and New York. 


On the shelf of stores there is supposed to be a label (sometimes missing) that 
shows the price of the item. If the shelf label which is printed probably 
weekly by some store computer due to price changes, can show the price and any 
missing legacy measures and / or SI metric measures, and the label on the jar 
or package only shows metric sizes, would the shelf label satisfy the 
requirement for legacy measures in Alabama and New York? 


I am just trying to come up with creative ways to get around the regulations to 
advance metric use. 


Parker Willey Jr. 
San Jose, CA 

[USMA:53259] Re: Adoption of the UPLR

[ezra . steinberg]

Wow! 

Thanks for checking up on this, Gene! 

Ezra 

- Original Message -
From: eugene a mechtly mech...@illinois.edu 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Accociation usma@colostate.edu, eugene a mechtly 
mech...@illinois.edu 
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 10:12:07 AM 
Subject: [USMA:53257] Adoption of the UPLR 

Linda, David, and Lisa (Editors of NIST Handbook 130 (Edition of 2013), 

Today, I reexamined NIST HB 130 (2013) to verify my reading of the list of 
states that have adopted the UPLR. 

The total count of states entered as NO for adoption of the UPLR is 1 (one) 
as of the date of publication, October of 2012. 

I was surprised to see that the *only state* entered as NO in the entire 
Table is North Dakota (on Page 12)! 

All other states (including Alabama (yes) and New York (yes)) are tabulated as 
either yes (Law or regulation in force,...) or YES (Adopted and updated on an 
annual basis.). 

Are *all states and territories* now unanimous in adopting the UPLR by either a 
yes or a YES status? 

Is a new unanimous status to be declared in the 2014 Edition of NIST HB 130? 

Eugene Mechtly