[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Lex Eisenhardt]

Very good!
Lex

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens 
mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 november 2018 11:35
Aan: VihuelaList 
Onderwerp: [VIHUELA] Corbetta

Just for the record - I am revising my web pages devoted to Corbetta. I have 
just uploaded a revised and enlarged version of Section I which covers his 
biography.  

You can find this at http://monicahall.co.uk/corbetta  

Regards

Monica



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[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta 1639

[mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu]

Thanks for this.  I think it must be a 3. 5 doesn't really make much 
sense. The basic chord N has a 4 because it is an A flat major chord.  
I just like to consider every possible permutation before deciding on 
the obvious!

Monica 


Original Message
From: dshos...@mac.com
Date: 04/08/2018 14:41 
To: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk"
Cc: "VihuelaList"
Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Corbetta 1639

The pdf I have is not bad and there is nothing visible above the bottom 
line (top course) for the N chord. 3 or 5 possible although 5 1 1 1 1 
would be a nasty stretch (at least for me!)

> On Aug 3, 2018, at 5:36 AM, mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:
> 
> Has anyone got a decent digital copy of Corbetta's 1639 book?
> 
> His "alfabeto falso" includes a version of Chord N* with the fifth 
> course clearly left unfretted but the note on the first course is 
> unclear. Most people including Pinnell and Gary Boye have 
interpreted 
> this as being G played at the third fret but the shape of what is 
> actually visible resembles the figure 5 rather than 3 when compared 
> with Chords N3 and N5.
> 
> One version would be - top down
> 
> 3
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 
> The other
> 
> 5
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 
> Any thoughts welcome.
> 
> Monica
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta 1639

[DANIEL SHOSKES]

The pdf I have is not bad and there is nothing visible above the bottom line 
(top course) for the N chord. 3 or 5 possible although 5 1 1 1 1 would be a 
nasty stretch (at least for me!)

> On Aug 3, 2018, at 5:36 AM, mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:
> 
> Has anyone got a decent digital copy of Corbetta's 1639 book?
> 
> His "alfabeto falso" includes a version of Chord N* with the fifth 
> course clearly left unfretted but the note on the first course is 
> unclear. Most people including Pinnell and Gary Boye have interpreted 
> this as being G played at the third fret but the shape of what is 
> actually visible resembles the figure 5 rather than 3 when compared 
> with Chords N3 and N5.
> 
> One version would be - top down
> 
> 3
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 
> The other
> 
> 5
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 1
> 
> Any thoughts welcome.
> 
> Monica
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta 1643

[mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu]

Thanks Arthur. I have the SPES edition. It was this edition published 
in Pavia that I am trying to get hold of.  I expect it is out of print. 
I wonder if anyone happens to know Giangiacomo Pinardi.

Best
Monica

Original Message
From: arthurjn...@verizon.net
Date: 29/04/2018 11:46 
To: 
Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Corbetta 1643


Hi Monica, 

The SPES edition is for sale at abebooks.com for $US106. 

Or did you only want the edition publ. in Pavia?

Are you familiar with B-Bc MS Littera XY no. 24135   It has some 
unusual titles in common with the Cavacanti Lute Book in he same 
library.  I wonder if they might form a pair. The Cavalcanti came from 
Coussemacher's collection.  Titles like Cicilano  (with C, not S), 
Franchina, Matacinata etc.



Arthur Ness
arthurjn...@verizon.net




-Original Message-
From: mjlhall 
To: VihuelaList 
Sent: Sat, Apr 28, 2018 12:15 pm
Subject: [VIHUELA] Corbetta 1643


It appears that an edition of Corbetta's Varii Capricii per la 
Guitarra 
Spagnuola (1643) edited by Giangiacomo Pinardi, was published by the 
publishers Guardamagna Editore, in Pavia in 1996.

I have been trying to get hold of this without success. I e-mailed the 
publishers but they haven't replied. 

Does anyone on the list have a copy of it or know where I might get 
hold of one?

Best wishes
Monica



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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu]

Thank you!
Monica

Original Message
From: rockype...@comcast.net
Date: 03/04/2018 16:18 
To: "Monica Hall"
Cc: "Rob MacKillop", "VihuelaList", "Nelson, Jocelyn"
Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Corbetta

I’ll add my voice to the thanks, too!

— Rocky Mjos


On Apr 3, 2018, at 8:20 AM, Nelson, Jocelyn  wrote:

> I agree with Rob, Monica, thank you for your work. Here in North 
Carolina it was a wonderful thing to see first thing in the morning. I 
enjoyed exploring a bit of it before getting into the daily grind.
> Regards,
> Jocelyn
> 
> -- 
> Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
> Teaching Assistant Professor
> Early Guitar, Music History
> ECU School of Music Writing Liaison
> Chancellor’s Leadership Academy Alum 
> 310 Fletcher Music Center
> School of Music
> East Carolina University
> 252.328.1255 office
> 252.328.6258 fax
> nels...@ecu.edu 
> On 4/3/18, 8:38 AM, "lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of 
mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu"  wrote:
> 
>Thank you for your kind words.
>Hope you are having a pleasant Easter break.
>Monica
> 
>Original Message
>From: robmackil...@gmail.com
>Date: 03/04/2018 12:26 
>To: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk"
>Cc: "VihuelaList"
>Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Corbetta
> 
>Wow. Well done, Monica, and thanks for sharing. The amount of work 
you 
>give
>to the baroque-guitar community - and for no money - is 
incredible, and 
>you
>should be loudly thanked for it!
> 
>Rob MacKillop
> 
>On 3 April 2018 at 12:19, mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu dartmouth.edu
>> wrote:
> 
>> If anyone is interested I have now added to my web pages a rather 
>basic
>> tablature edition of the pieces attributed to Corbetta in the Gallot
>> ms. GB-Ob Ms.Mus.Sch.C94.
>> 
>> www.monicahall.co.uk/corbetta . It is second from the bottom of the
>> list of contents.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Monica
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu]

Thank you. It is good to hear from you. Hope all is well and the daily 
grind not too grinding.
Regards.
Monica

Original Message
From: nels...@ecu.edu
Date: 03/04/2018 13:20 
To: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk"<mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>, "robmackillop@gmail.
com"<robmackil...@gmail.com>
Cc: "VihuelaList"<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

I agree with Rob, Monica, thank you for your work. Here in North 
Carolina it was a wonderful thing to see first thing in the morning. I 
enjoyed exploring a bit of it before getting into the daily grind.
Regards,
Jocelyn

-- 
Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
ECU School of Music Writing Liaison
Chancellor’s Leadership Academy Alum 
310 Fletcher Music Center
School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu <mailto:nel...@ecu.edu>
On 4/3/18, 8:38 AM, "lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of mjlhall@cs.
dartmouth.edu" <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of mjlhall@cs.
dartmouth.edu> wrote:

Thank you for your kind words.
Hope you are having a pleasant Easter break.
Monica

Original Message
From: robmackil...@gmail.com
Date: 03/04/2018 12:26 
To: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk"<mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc: "VihuelaList"<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Corbetta

Wow. Well done, Monica, and thanks for sharing. The amount of work 
you 
give
to the baroque-guitar community - and for no money - is incredible, 
and 
you
should be loudly thanked for it!

Rob MacKillop

On 3 April 2018 at 12:19, mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu <mjlhall@cs.
dartmouth.edu
> wrote:

> If anyone is interested I have now added to my web pages a 
rather 
basic
> tablature edition of the pieces attributed to Corbetta in the 
Gallot
> ms. GB-Ob Ms.Mus.Sch.C94.
>
> www.monicahall.co.uk/corbetta . It is second from the bottom of 
the
> list of contents.
>
> Regards
> Monica
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Mjos & Larson]

I’ll add my voice to the thanks, too!

— Rocky Mjos


On Apr 3, 2018, at 8:20 AM, Nelson, Jocelyn  wrote:

> I agree with Rob, Monica, thank you for your work. Here in North Carolina it 
> was a wonderful thing to see first thing in the morning. I enjoyed exploring 
> a bit of it before getting into the daily grind.
> Regards,
> Jocelyn
> 
> -- 
> Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
> Teaching Assistant Professor
> Early Guitar, Music History
> ECU School of Music Writing Liaison
> Chancellor’s Leadership Academy Alum 
> 310 Fletcher Music Center
> School of Music
> East Carolina University
> 252.328.1255 office
> 252.328.6258 fax
> nels...@ecu.edu 
> On 4/3/18, 8:38 AM, "lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of 
> mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu"  mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> 
>Thank you for your kind words.
>Hope you are having a pleasant Easter break.
>Monica
> 
>Original Message
>From: robmackil...@gmail.com
>Date: 03/04/2018 12:26 
>To: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk"
>Cc: "VihuelaList"
>Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Corbetta
> 
>Wow. Well done, Monica, and thanks for sharing. The amount of work you 
>give
>to the baroque-guitar community - and for no money - is incredible, and 
>you
>should be loudly thanked for it!
> 
>Rob MacKillop
> 
>On 3 April 2018 at 12:19, mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu dartmouth.edu
>> wrote:
> 
>> If anyone is interested I have now added to my web pages a rather 
>basic
>> tablature edition of the pieces attributed to Corbetta in the Gallot
>> ms. GB-Ob Ms.Mus.Sch.C94.
>> 
>> www.monicahall.co.uk/corbetta . It is second from the bottom of the
>> list of contents.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Monica
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

I agree with Rob, Monica, thank you for your work. Here in North Carolina it 
was a wonderful thing to see first thing in the morning. I enjoyed exploring a 
bit of it before getting into the daily grind.
Regards,
Jocelyn

-- 
Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
ECU School of Music Writing Liaison
Chancellor’s Leadership Academy Alum 
310 Fletcher Music Center
School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu 
On 4/3/18, 8:38 AM, "lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of 
mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu"  wrote:

Thank you for your kind words.
Hope you are having a pleasant Easter break.
Monica

Original Message
From: robmackil...@gmail.com
Date: 03/04/2018 12:26 
To: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk"
Cc: "VihuelaList"
Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Corbetta

Wow. Well done, Monica, and thanks for sharing. The amount of work you 
give
to the baroque-guitar community - and for no money - is incredible, and 
you
should be loudly thanked for it!

Rob MacKillop

On 3 April 2018 at 12:19, mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu  wrote:

> If anyone is interested I have now added to my web pages a rather 
basic
> tablature edition of the pieces attributed to Corbetta in the Gallot
> ms. GB-Ob Ms.Mus.Sch.C94.
>
> www.monicahall.co.uk/corbetta . It is second from the bottom of the
> list of contents.
>
> Regards
> Monica
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu]

Thank you for your kind words.
Hope you are having a pleasant Easter break.
Monica

Original Message
From: robmackil...@gmail.com
Date: 03/04/2018 12:26 
To: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk"
Cc: "VihuelaList"
Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Corbetta

Wow. Well done, Monica, and thanks for sharing. The amount of work you 
give
to the baroque-guitar community - and for no money - is incredible, and 
you
should be loudly thanked for it!

Rob MacKillop

On 3 April 2018 at 12:19, mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu  wrote:

> If anyone is interested I have now added to my web pages a rather 
basic
> tablature edition of the pieces attributed to Corbetta in the Gallot
> ms. GB-Ob Ms.Mus.Sch.C94.
>
> www.monicahall.co.uk/corbetta . It is second from the bottom of the
> list of contents.
>
> Regards
> Monica
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta manuscripts

[mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk]

I don't think it is.  All I have is an ancient photocopy of it. Maybe 
Eloy Cruz would know. 

Cheers
Monica

Original Message
From: andywh...@optusnet.com.au
Date: 26/10/2017 10:33 
To: <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta manuscripts

Monica,

Is the Mexican manuscript available online anywhere?

Cheers,
Andrew


> On 26 Oct 2017, at 9:19 PM, mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
> 
> Thanks for that. The thing that most astonished me was finding the 
> Allemande francisque from Gallot f.82r  copied into the Mexican ms. 
> almost - apart from the last section - note for note - fifty years 
> later. It is a super piece with lovely doubles. I wish I could play 
it 
> really well
> 
> As ever
> Monica
> 
> Original Message
> From: lex.eisenha...@gmail.com
> Date: 26/10/2017 8:47 
> To: <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>, "'VihuelaList'"<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.
edu>
> Subj: [VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta manuscripts
> 
> Thanks, Monica. This is very interesting!
> Best wishes, Lex
> 
> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] 
> Namens mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
> Verzonden: donderdag 26 oktober 2017 09:49
> Aan: VihuelaList
> Onderwerp: [VIHUELA] Corbetta manuscripts
> 
> 
> Just for the record  - I have added another section, Section VI 
> (Manuscript Sources) Part 5 to my Corbetta web pages. It is about 
> miscellaneous manuscripts which include pieces attributed to him.  
> Comments and corrections welcome, preferably off the list.
> 
> You will find them at www.monicahall.co.uk/corbetta if you are 
lucky.
> 
> Have a nice weekend.
> 
> Monica
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at 
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta manuscripts

[Lex Eisenhardt]

Thanks, Monica. This is very interesting!
Best wishes, Lex

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Namens 
mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
Verzonden: donderdag 26 oktober 2017 09:49
Aan: VihuelaList
Onderwerp: [VIHUELA] Corbetta manuscripts


Just for the record  - I have added another section, Section VI (Manuscript 
Sources) Part 5 to my Corbetta web pages. It is about miscellaneous manuscripts 
which include pieces attributed to him.  
Comments and corrections welcome, preferably off the list.

You will find them at www.monicahall.co.uk/corbetta if you are lucky.

Have a nice weekend.

Monica





To get on or off this list see list information at 
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta manuscripts

[mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk]

Thank you. It's very kind of you to say so. Makes it all worth while.
Monica

Original Message
From: robmackil...@gmail.com
Date: 13/05/2017 17:16 
To: 
Cc: "VihuelaList"
Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Corbetta manuscripts

What an astonishing amount of work you've done there, Monica. I don't 
know how many people will appreciate your efforts, but your work will 
stand for a very long time, I'm sure. Your website is the primary 
resource for anyone interested in baroque guitar research. 
Congratulations, it's really impressive. 

Rob MacKillop


> On 13 May 2017, at 15:42, "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk"  wrote:
> 
> In case anyone is interested - I have added another section, Section 
VI 
> (Manuscript Sources) Part 4 to my Corbetta 
> web pages (if it has worked properly). It is about the two 
manuscripts 
> in the Biblioteca Estense in Modena. Although they only include 
music 
> from Corbetta's printed books they are actually quite interesting. I 
> have updated the list of contents too. Comments and corrections 
> welcome, preferably off the list.
> 
> You will find them at www.monicahall.co.uk/corbetta if you are 
lucky.
> 
> Have a nice weekend.
> 
> Monica
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta x ornament starting note

[Ed Durbrow]

Thanks Monica, 
I put my comments in line.

On Jan 22, 2013, at 1:20 AM, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:

 By chance I have a recording of Antonio Ligios playing this piece and as far 
 as I can tell he is doing exactly what the ornaments seem to imply…

Does he have any web presence? I couldn't find his performance on YouTube.

 Has anyone any thoughts about the starting note of the x ornament signs in
 Corbetta's La Guitar Royal of 1671, particularly the Folia starting on
 page 79? On p.9 he gives an example of a prepared appoggiatura on the
 fifth line. but there are numerous places that could be confusing.
 
 The x indicates that the auxiliary note or starting note is from above.
 
 Examples:
 P.79, line 4, measure 1: It is kind of jarring to start the trill ( I play
 a couple of iterations rather than an appoggiatura when the x is on a
 dotted quarter) on the upper note (B) right after a Bb in the top voice.
 
 I think the point is that it is an A major chord and you can't play a B flat 
 auxiliary note.  It must be B  natural.

Yes, B natural is a given. It just doesn't feel very natural to me to jump to 
that A chord and land with my third finger on a B, whereas starting with the A 
chord feels very natural.

  The cross relations (if that is the correct terminology) are quite  typical 
 of Corbetta's style.

I guess he was pretty 'out there' with no preparation and all. It sounds 
jarring to me, but like you say maybe that was his style.

 The top line second measure of p.80 he indicates a slur f  e followed by
 x. The f  e is already an appoggiatura. The only thing I can think of is
 to reiterate the upper neighbor f from the e note, an upper mordant.
 
 I think that is what is intended here..and what Ligios seems to playthe 
 notes are a  f  f-e d

We may or may not be talking about the same place. I was saying f  e f e 
concerning the notes on the first string, with the e f e being like a mordant 
on beat two (2 32 notes and 1 16th note) and the initial e being pulled off 
from the f on the second half of beat one. Then, the same type of thing on beat 
three, a mordant with the initial note C# being pulled off from the D on the 
second half of beat 2. I'm wondering if other people do this as this case isn't 
illustrated on his ornaments page. Perhaps he gives an example like this in 
another book? I don't see anything in Varii Capricii 1643.

 P.80 third line from bottom, 2nd measure: What's this about? X on a 16th
 note but preceded by an appoggiatura from above or below?
 
 From above I think -the notes are g   g-f  e.

Well, there is an A at the end of the previous measure so that would make a 
nice prepared appoggiatura. The problem though is, then you have another 
appoggiatura on the F which means switching out of the third position (3rd 
fret) and all four notes happen in half a beat. Someone with very long fingers 
could perhaps sustain the D with the second finger and pull off pinky-ring and 
then reiterate the G and pull off ring to index. I interpret the line below as 
an appoggiatura from below as indicated on the ornaments page and then do a 
quick mordant on the F which comes out as a 32 note triplet in order to land on 
the E on the second half of the beat. This sounds pretty nifty with no ugly cut 
off like I would get trying to do an upper neighbor appoggiatura. I'm just not 
sure if this wasn't some kind of mistake, two ornaments on two 16th notes seems 
pushing it.

The basic problem I'm having, well two really, is 1. you can't do an 
appoggiatura from above if a slur from the same neighbor precedes it. 2. Many 
places call for reiterations to my ear, especially cadences where there is a 
dotted quarter note followed by an eighth (quaver). An appoggiatura sounds 
wimpy there IMO.

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/






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[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta x ornament starting note

[Monica Hall]

I'm not sure if I am the best person to advise you but.

The Antonio Ligios' recording is an old one (1998).  It's still available
on Amazon at $25 but not otherwise.  IMHO it is the best of Corbetta
recordings.

Your comments in square brackets...

[Yes, B natural is a given. It just doesn't feel very natural to me to jump
to that A chord and land with my third finger on a B, whereas starting with
the A chord feels very natural]

The first few bars of line 5 of the Folia  are straightforward.
dmin - g min  Amaj  dmin.= i  iv  V  i in D minor.  The Harvard Dictionary
defines cross relations as 'the succession of a pitch in one voice by a
chromatic alteration of that pitch in another voice'. which is what happens
here - the b is flat in a G minor chord but natural when attached to an A
major one.it doesn't need to be prepared,  HD gives several examples 
from

Bach.

[The top line second measure of p.80 he indicates a slur f  e followed by
x. The f  e is already an appoggiatura.]

It isn't...harmonically speaking the g on the last quaver in the previous
bar is suspended and resolves on the f - a 7-6 suspension.   Although he has
put a slur under the b-a = f-e I think you should ignore that and play it as 
I suggest i.e. f  f-e d.   The same with the next group of quavers.  They 
are not mordents...


[P.80 third line from bottom, 2nd measure: ]

Well he hasn't indicated an appoggiatura on the first chord of the bar! You 
would switch out of 3rd postion before the G major chord, not after it.


[Finally ...
1. you can't do an
appoggiatura from above if a slur from the same neighbor precedes it. ]

No but I think you just have to ignore the slur.

[2. Many places call for reiterations to my ear, especially cadences where

there is a dotted quarter note followed by an eighth (quaver). An
appoggiatura sounds wimpy there IMO.]


Well - it is never really made clear that the appgggiatura is to be 
followed by a trill.   It is the same with Bartolotti.   The only thing I 
can suggest is that you exercise your own discretion according to the value 
of the note to which the appoggiatura is attached.   A long note might call 
for something more elaborate.


I'm afraid that is the best I can do.  Maybe someone else would interpret 
the notation differently.


Monica




Thanks Monica,
I put my comments in line.

On Jan 22, 2013, at 1:20 AM, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:


By chance I have a recording of Antonio Ligios playing this piece and as
far as I can tell he is doing exactly what the ornaments seem to imply…


Does he have any web presence? I couldn't find his performance on YouTube.


Has anyone any thoughts about the starting note of the x ornament signs
in
Corbetta's La Guitar Royal of 1671, particularly the Folia starting on
page 79? On p.9 he gives an example of a prepared appoggiatura on the
fifth line. but there are numerous places that could be confusing.


The x indicates that the auxiliary note or starting note is from above.


Examples:
P.79, line 4, measure 1: It is kind of jarring to start the trill ( I
play
a couple of iterations rather than an appoggiatura when the x is on a
dotted quarter) on the upper note (B) right after a Bb in the top voice.


I think the point is that it is an A major chord and you can't play a B
flat auxiliary note.  It must be B  natural.


Yes, B natural is a given. It just doesn't feel very natural to me to jump
to that A chord and land with my third finger on a B, whereas starting
with the A chord feels very natural.


 The cross relations (if that is the correct terminology) are quite
typical of Corbetta's style.


I guess he was pretty 'out there' with no preparation and all. It sounds
jarring to me, but like you say maybe that was his style.


The top line second measure of p.80 he indicates a slur f  e followed
by
x. The f  e is already an appoggiatura. The only thing I can think of
is
to reiterate the upper neighbor f from the e note, an upper mordant.


I think that is what is intended here..and what Ligios seems to
playthe notes are a  f  f-e d


We may or may not be talking about the same place. I was saying f  e f e
concerning the notes on the first string, with the e f e being like a
mordant on beat two (2 32 notes and 1 16th note) and the initial e being
pulled off from the f on the second half of beat one. Then, the same type
of thing on beat three, a mordant with the initial note C# being pulled
off from the D on the second half of beat 2. I'm wondering if other people
do this as this case isn't illustrated on his ornaments page. Perhaps he
gives an example like this in another book? I don't see anything in Varii
Capricii 1643.


P.80 third line from bottom, 2nd measure: What's this about? X on a 16th
note but preceded by an appoggiatura from above or below?


From above I think -the notes are g   g-f  e.


Well, there is an A at the end of the previous measure so that would make
a nice prepared appoggiatura. The problem though 

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta x ornament starting note

[Monica Hall]

By chance I have a recording of Antonio Ligios playing this piece and as far 
as I can tell he is doing exactly what the ornaments seem to imply...



Has anyone any thoughts about the starting note of the x ornament signs in
Corbetta's La Guitar Royal of 1671, particularly the Folia starting on
page 79? On p.9 he gives an example of a prepared appoggiatura on the
fifth line. but there are numerous places that could be confusing.


The x indicates that the auxiliary note or starting note is from above.


Examples:
P.79, line 4, measure 1: It is kind of jarring to start the trill ( I play
a couple of iterations rather than an appoggiatura when the x is on a
dotted quarter) on the upper note (B) right after a Bb in the top voice.


I think the point is that it is an A major chord and you can't play a B flat 
auxiliary note.  It must be B  natural.  The cross relations (if that is the 
correct terminology) are quite  typical of Corbetta's style.


The top line second measure of p.80 he indicates a slur f  e followed by
x. The f  e is already an appoggiatura. The only thing I can think of is
to reiterate the upper neighbor f from the e note, an upper mordant.


I think that is what is intended here..and what Ligios seems to playthe 
notes are a  f  f-e d


P.80 third line from bottom, 2nd measure: What's this about? X on a 16th
note but preceded by an appoggiatura from above or below?



From above I think -the notes are g   g-f  e.


That's my 2 pennyworth anyway.   I expect someone will contradict me.


TIA


What does TIA mean?

Regards

Monica


Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/



Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/






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[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[WALSH STUART]

   On 13 June 2010 05:26, Ed Durbrow [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp wrote:

   Where are you folks hearing these samples? Available on the net?
 You
   all bought the CD?



   I bought the mp3 download from amazon UK. I'd rather get a CD  (sleeve
   notes etc) but the CD was three times as expensive from just one dealer
   with an 88% rating.

   7-L-/euros is not expensive and I was intrigued to hear it. According
   to some people, there are issues with Conte's playing but - apart from
   some far too slow renditions - I couln't hear them. I think that I have
   more of an issue with Corbetta - or this part of Corbetta's oeuvre -
   than Conte's playing of it.


   Stuart







   On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:14 AM, Stuart Walsh wrote:
   Monica Hall wrote:
   Don't know whether the rest of you have already noticed this
 but
 Carpe
   Diem have recently released a beautiful recording of music
 from
   Corbetta's 1671 Guitarre royale played by Rosario Conte - the
 best
   recording available now Antonio Ligios recording is no longer
   available.
   For some reason the first suite reminds me of a very old recording
 of
   Schaffer's on Baroque lute of a suite in G minor by Bittner.
   Someone said the recording is 'close' and you can hear fingers on
   strings - other than playing the notes! - and indeed the man
 himself
   breathing. (My wife thinks he looks like the actor, Patrick
 Stewart).
   He surely gets a very nice sound from the guitar and his brushing
 of
   chords is very delicate (some players are rather raspy) and lots
 of
   ornaments. The Prelude of this first suite is quite slow with
 familiar
   little phrases but Rosario gives his all. The Allemande has a
 little
   percussive sound at the beginning which happens at the repeat?
 Seems
   very well played to me. The Courante sounds fine to me too but I
 agree
   with others that the Sarabande is too slow. The Baroque lute can
 be
   played super slow (as it were) but I'm not sure this very slow
 tempo
   suits the guitar, or even this particular sarabande. A fine gigue
   (which is reminiscent of something else) and a swingless
 Passacaille to
   end.
   Stuart
   Monica
   --
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [1][2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   Ed Durbrow
   Saitama, Japan
   [2][3]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   [3][4]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
   --
 References
   1. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   2. mailto:[6]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   3. [7]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/

   --

References

   1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   3. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   4. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   7. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Ed Durbrow]

   Where are you folks hearing these samples? Available on the net? You
   all bought the CD?

   On Jun 6, 2010, at 4:14 AM, Stuart Walsh wrote:

   Monica Hall wrote:

   Don't know whether the rest of you have already noticed this but
 Carpe

   Diem have recently released a beautiful recording of music from

   Corbetta's 1671 Guitarre royale played by Rosario Conte - the best

   recording available now Antonio Ligios recording is no longer

   available.


   For some reason the first suite reminds me of a very old recording of
   Schaffer's on Baroque lute of a suite in G minor by Bittner.
   Someone said the recording is 'close' and you can hear fingers on
   strings - other than playing the notes! - and indeed the man himself
   breathing. (My wife thinks he looks like the actor, Patrick Stewart).
   He surely gets a very nice sound from the guitar and his brushing of
   chords is very delicate (some players are rather raspy) and lots of
   ornaments. The Prelude of this first suite is quite slow with familiar
   little phrases but Rosario gives his all. The Allemande has a little
   percussive sound at the beginning which happens at the repeat? Seems
   very well played to me. The Courante sounds fine to me too but I agree
   with others that the Sarabande is too slow. The Baroque lute can be
   played super slow (as it were) but I'm not sure this very slow tempo
   suits the guitar, or even this particular sarabande. A fine gigue
   (which is reminiscent of something else) and a swingless Passacaille to
   end.
   Stuart

   Monica

   --

 To get on or off this list see list information at

 [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


   Ed Durbrow
   Saitama, Japan
   [2]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   2. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
   3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Stuart Walsh]

Monica Hall wrote:

   Don't know whether the rest of you have already noticed this but Carpe
   Diem have recently released a beautiful recording of music from
   Corbetta's 1671 Guitarre royale played by Rosario Conte - the best
   recording available now Antonio Ligios recording is no longer
   available.


  
For some reason the first suite reminds me of a very old recording of 
Schaffer's on Baroque lute of a suite in G minor by Bittner.
Someone said the recording is 'close' and you can hear fingers on 
strings - other than playing the notes! - and indeed the man himself 
breathing. (My wife thinks he looks like the actor, Patrick Stewart).


He surely gets a very nice sound from the guitar and his brushing of 
chords is very delicate (some players are rather raspy) and lots of 
ornaments. The Prelude of this first suite is quite slow with familiar 
little phrases but Rosario gives his all. The Allemande has a little 
percussive sound at the beginning which happens at the repeat? Seems 
very well played to me. The Courante sounds fine to me too but I agree 
with others that the Sarabande is too slow. The Baroque lute can be 
played super slow (as it were) but I'm not sure this very slow tempo 
suits the guitar, or even this particular sarabande. A fine gigue (which 
is reminiscent of something else) and a swingless Passacaille to end.



Stuart





   Monica

   --


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[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Monica Hall]

Monica Hall wrote:

   Don't know whether the rest of you have already noticed this but Carpe
   Diem have recently released a beautiful recording of music from
   Corbetta's 1671 Guitarre royale played by Rosario Conte - the best
   recording available now Antonio Ligios recording is no longer
   available.



For some reason the first suite reminds me of a very old recording of 
Schaffer's on Baroque lute of a suite in G minor by Bittner.
Someone said the recording is 'close' and you can hear fingers on 
strings - other than playing the notes! - and indeed the man himself 
breathing. (My wife thinks he looks like the actor, Patrick Stewart).


He surely gets a very nice sound from the guitar and his brushing of 
chords is very delicate (some players are rather raspy) and lots of 
ornaments. The Prelude of this first suite is quite slow with familiar 
little phrases but Rosario gives his all. The Allemande has a little 
percussive sound at the beginning which happens at the repeat? Seems very 
well played to me. The Courante sounds fine to me too but I agree with 
others that the Sarabande is too slow. The Baroque lute can be played 
super slow (as it were) but I'm not sure this very slow tempo suits the 
guitar, or even this particular sarabande. A fine gigue (which is 
reminiscent of something else) and a swingless Passacaille to end.



Stuart


I am glad you seem to like it.   Actually I have Claire Antonini's recording 
of French lute music and she plays a sarabande by Dufaut - first half of the 
17th C very slowly.   I think it is more a question of the repertoire than 
the date.


So far no one has commented on the fact that he plays the Corbetta with 
octave stringing on the third course as well as the fourth (but not the 
fifth).   Perhaps none of you had noticed but it is obvious right from the 
start of the G minor prelude if you are familiar with it.   It's something 
which I play myself.   The De Visee is with octave stringing just on the 
fourth course.


I decided to forgive him that lapse of good taste.

He looks a bit like one of my nephews actually.   Having no hair seems 
fashionable these days and if you watch him on Youtube he seems to have 
grown some since then.


I've just had to review it for Lute News.  Pity I didn't ask you all for 
your views first!


MOnica








   Monica

   --


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[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Monica Hall]

   What a shame - I was really looking forward to it. This was going to be
   the year of the baroque guitar with your CD and Gordon's which also
   seems to be behind schedule. You must be feeling really depressd.



   Monica

   - Original Message -

   From: [1]Rob MacKillop

   To: [2]Monica Hall

   Cc: [3]Stuart Walsh ; [4]Vihuelalist

   Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 9:37 PM

   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

   If I may inappropriately gate crash this topic, while we are on the
   subject of baroque guitar CDs, some of you have been waiting patiently
   (far too patiently, for my liking) for my CD recorded in Feb 2009 for
   the French Alpha label. I am sad to report that I've just had an email
   saying it will be another year or so before it comes out. It is of
   Scottish music 1650-1730 for viola da gamba/lyra viol and baroque
   guitar. Alpha have been bought by another company, although they will
   still appear to the world as Alpha. They are 23 discs behind
   schedule...so far...



   Rob MacKillop

   --

References

   1. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   3. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   4. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu


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[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Martyn Hodgson]

   Well, certainly the playing is nice and clean and the guitar sounds
   well - tho' perhaps recorded a little close.  The purling runs are nice
   but, from the samples heard (maybe unrepresentative?),  I was a bit
   dissapointed at the ubiquitous and general(?) use of the rolled
   thumb in the down strokes.

   Regarding musical interepretation, I thought the extracts were all
   rather lugubrious - for example surely in the 1670s the Sarabande had
   not yet slowed to the sort of level commonly found in the 18th
   century.. sorry.

   regards

   Martyn
   --- On Sun, 30/5/10, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:

 From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
 Subject: [VIHUELA] Corbetta
 To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Sunday, 30 May, 2010, 15:40

  Don't know whether the rest of you have already noticed this but
   Carpe
  Diem have recently released a beautiful recording of music from
  Corbetta's 1671 Guitarre royale played by Rosario Conte - the best
  recording available now Antonio Ligios recording is no longer
  available.
  Monica
  --
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   --

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[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Stuart Walsh]

Monica Hall wrote:

   Don't know whether the rest of you have already noticed this but Carpe
   Diem have recently released a beautiful recording of music from
   Corbetta's 1671 Guitarre royale played by Rosario Conte - the best
   recording available now Antonio Ligios recording is no longer
   available.



   Monica

   --

  
I just looked on Amazon UK. Is it called Une larme with a rather 
fierce-looking chap on the CD cover who looks like he's going to bash 
you over the head with his Baroque guitar?



Stuart


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[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   : )  That is a scary looking picture, but I enjoyed the little bit of
   samples that I heard.
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: Stuart Walsh [1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 12:15:44 -0400
   To: Monica Hall [2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   Cc: Vihuelalist [3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta
   Monica Hall wrote:
   Don't know whether the rest of you have already noticed this but
   Carpe
   Diem have recently released a beautiful recording of music from
   Corbetta's 1671 Guitarre royale played by Rosario Conte - the best
   recording available now Antonio Ligios recording is no longer
   available.
   
   
   
   Monica
   
   --
   
   
   I just looked on Amazon UK. Is it called Une larme with a rather
   fierce-looking chap on the CD cover who looks like he's going to bash
   you over the head with his Baroque guitar?
   Stuart
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   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
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   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Monica Hall]

Well - he may look scary but he plays like an angel.

Monica


- Original Message - 
From: Nelson, Jocelyn nels...@ecu.edu
To: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com; Monica Hall 
mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk

Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 6:02 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta



  : )  That is a scary looking picture, but I enjoyed the little bit of
  samples that I heard.
  Jocelyn
___

  From: Stuart Walsh [1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
  Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 12:15:44 -0400
  To: Monica Hall [2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
  Cc: Vihuelalist [3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta
  Monica Hall wrote:
  Don't know whether the rest of you have already noticed this but
  Carpe
  Diem have recently released a beautiful recording of music from
  Corbetta's 1671 Guitarre royale played by Rosario Conte - the best
  recording available now Antonio Ligios recording is no longer
  available.
  
  
  
  Monica
  
  --
  
  
  I just looked on Amazon UK. Is it called Une larme with a rather
  fierce-looking chap on the CD cover who looks like he's going to bash
  you over the head with his Baroque guitar?
  Stuart
   To get on or off this list see list information at
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  2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
  3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html