[Vo]:Amazing stuff in Mars Mircographs
There is all kinds of stuff in motion in the Sol 112 Phoenix micrographs. Registering and toggling the following three photos, all in red light, slightly differing focus points, shows progressive and unmistakable motion of many objects, some flat or leaf-like. http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=32742cID=298 http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=32764cID=298 http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=32772cID=298 Some of the Sol 112 photos show what may be Perithecia, little ball like fruiting bodies with now opening ostiole. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
[Vo]:Clever air motor
I'm really impressed with this design. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8aZVLpf-c http://webmail.usfamily.net/web/services/go.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDq8aZVLpf-c --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
[Vo]:Re: Amazing stuff in Mars Mircographs
There is all kinds of stuff in motion in the Sol 112 Phoenix micrographs. Registering and toggling the following three photos, all in red light, slightly differing focus points, shows progressive and unmistakable motion of many objects, some flat or leaf-like. http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=32742cID=298 http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=32764cID=298 http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=32772cID=298 Some of the Sol 112 photos show what may be perithecia, little ball- like fruiting bodies with now opening ostioles from which spores are issued. An area to the mid left in the above photos, with a possible perithecium with open ostiole, is attached. inline: perithecium.png The stuff in motion in these photos look to me to be living lichen- like material. It certainly doesn't look like just ice and dirt. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
[Vo]:International talk like a pirate day
Ah ha! avarst! pieces of eight! walk the plank! http://www.yarr.org.uk/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX61PUZ3xkI
Re: [Vo]:International talk like a pirate day
Hey Remi, LIke a cheap Carnival booth, these play acting pirates are amateur compared to the pirate booths down the boardwalk a way .. ya gotta see the bunch called the Fed , and the one directly across called the FDIC. and don't miss the AIG.. Ah heck .. ya can't miss 'em if you just going that direction. Head toward the sound of the music. Richard - Original Message - From: Remi Cornwall To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 5:28 AM Subject: [Vo]:International talk like a pirate day Ah ha! avarst! pieces of eight! walk the plank! http://www.yarr.org.uk/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX61PUZ3xkI -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1679 - Release Date: 9/18/2008 5:03 PM
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars, undercap engines, more charging points
When an automobile engine is place in a boat, it is grossly *de-rated*. That's the whole point, **people aren't angels**. Their driving habits and general nature require them to have over 100bhp in reserve to get them out of trouble etc. The CEO on the Tesla motor site put it best - nobody wants to be driving some goofy golf car. Until a bettery comes along the problem is one of engineering. Use supercharged, variable boost, small engine capacity hybrids. Install charging points in cities at parking bays or **even inductive charging** at lights or known traffic jam sites. That way a highly optimised engine (a power plant) ultimately burns the fuel more efficiently. Now if they were really serious, left or right, more nuclear power would have been brought on stream (takes about 5 years) and US would be using its own oil reserves and probably exporting oil and technology. As john Steck put it, evolution is cruel so what if we kill a few butterflies? Nature *always* bounces back. Change is the only constant - regardless of what we do. I can't see what a massive state sector has done in the UK since 1997 when someone advising the civil service tells them the lights in the UK will be going out in 2014. Mind you the same thing happened in California due to deregulation. Schmucks to the left, schmucks to the right.
RE: [Vo]:International talk like a pirate day
Tex, when is anyone going to walk the plank? I'll be out for a few hours doing the mixed funding route so I'll be offline for a bit. Private investment lined up need half from gov. which is just really a tax break for high tech start ups. I'd like to make a bettery with the TEC. I'm sure phase changing materials even a CaO/Ca(OH)2 heat reservoir and a thermal electric converter would do the job. _ From: R C Macaulay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 September 2008 11:55 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:International talk like a pirate day Hey Remi, LIke a cheap Carnival booth, these play acting pirates are amateur compared to the pirate booths down the boardwalk a way .. ya gotta see the bunch called the Fed , and the one directly across called the FDIC. and don't miss the AIG.. Ah heck .. ya can't miss 'em if you just going that direction. Head toward the sound of the music. Richard - Original Message - From: Remi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cornwall To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 5:28 AM Subject: [Vo]:International talk like a pirate day Ah ha! avarst! pieces of eight! walk the plank! http://www.yarr.org.uk/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX61PUZ3xkI _ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1679 - Release Date: 9/18/2008 5:03 PM
[VO]: Guess who's coming to dinner?
Howdy Vorts, Let's see if I have this right,.. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer asked the SEC to prevent nekkid short selling of financial stocks to prevent further meltdown? So who's the guys doing it ? Not me ..said Wall Street.. look in your own back yard, Nancy girl. The guys managing the Cal pension funds are the bad guys, wez' just kids playin' wid matches. The California Public Employees' Retirement System, the nation's largest pension fund, said that starting Thursday it is no longer lending out shares of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley, joining a growing number of public pension funds that are attempting to curb short-selling of two investment banks' stocks. ( MSNBC News Sept 19) And I thought there may be sum'tin sneaky going on in the back room at the Dime Box Saloon.. man !, these people are incorrigible. Richard
Re: [Vo]:meltdown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 11:54 PM, thomas malloy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard Macaulay posted Talk about conspiracy theories. We are watching the largest bank robbery in history and nobody believes it is contrived. Michael Savage of the Savage Nation was going on about how the Powers That Be fired Eliot Spitzer because of his agressive attacks on preditory lending. I have learned never to assume conspiracy when greed and stupidity can explain the phenomena. IMHO, they thought that the value of American residential real estate would continue to hold it's value. Too bad it's value is based on the occupant's cashflow, while some people have the requisite cashflow, an increasing number don't. IMHO, the phenomena can be explained by a short sighted focus on keeping the economy growing, cashflow, cashflow, and cashflow. The Savage posted this link, The author's other writings reveal him to be a leftist, so I'm wondering how much truth it contains. http://www.gregpalast.com/elliot-spitzer-gets-nailed/ --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:Clever air motor
From Thomas: I'm really impressed with this design. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8aZVLpf-c http://webmail.usfamily.net/web/services/go.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDq8aZVLpf-c Pretty neat. As an alternative approach to compressed air I wonder if one could use a catalyst as fuel, meaning the controlled mixture of two chemicals to produce sufficient quantities of gas under pressure on demand instead of storing the stored energy in a large high pressure tank. I suspect some people might feel queasy about driving a vehicle with so much air pressure stored on-board. For example mixing baking soda and vinegar produces CO2. I wonder if an equivalent and economical chemistry could be exploited. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:International talk like a pirate day
On this side of the pond: http://www.talklikeapirate.com/ Terry On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Remi Cornwall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tex, when is anyone going to walk the plank? I'll be out for a few hours doing the mixed funding route so I'll be offline for a bit. Private investment lined up need half from gov. which is just really a tax break for high tech start ups. I'd like to make a bettery with the TEC. I'm sure phase changing materials even a CaO/Ca(OH)2 heat reservoir and a thermal electric converter would do the job. From: R C Macaulay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 September 2008 11:55 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:International talk like a pirate day Hey Remi, LIke a cheap Carnival booth, these play acting pirates are amateur compared to the pirate booths down the boardwalk a way .. ya gotta see the bunch called the Fed , and the one directly across called the FDIC. and don't miss the AIG.. Ah heck .. ya can't miss 'em if you just going that direction. Head toward the sound of the music. Richard - Original Message - From: Remi Cornwall To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 5:28 AM Subject: [Vo]:International talk like a pirate day Ah ha! avarst! pieces of eight! walk the plank! http://www.yarr.org.uk/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX61PUZ3xkI No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1679 - Release Date: 9/18/2008 5:03 PM
Re: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
John Steck wrote: The grand irony is I believe the enviro-fascists are the biggest culprits who keep us locked into this dependency mode. They have successfully prevented developing any/all domestic production capacity of any kind for over 30 years. I have news for you John: environmentalists have no influence over oil companies. None. Zilch. Bupkis. And they have no influence over V.P. Cheney, who has set energy policy for the last 8 years. If you have any doubt about that, read what he himself said, and look at his energy policy advisors. - Jed
[Vo]:Lichen movie
I posted a repeating 3 frame movie of lichen on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O68Xop-WpM Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
[Vo]:Quote
I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the industrious, and the stupid. Each officer possesses at least two of these qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations. But whoever is stupid and industrious is a menace and must be removed immediately! - General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord 1933
Re: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Today's headline - from the Volt page: Chevy Volt and the Electric Grid: Drive 15,000 Miles for $73 ... if this were true (which it isn't) the average buyer could save about $2,200 per year - if she never used the onboard engine (which is possible, but not likely). If the lease on the volt happened to be $340 month (guess) then the average cost per day of ownership would be about $5. This makes it affordable for almost anyone, no? I suppose that this is precisely how the Lutzs of the auto world mentally justify the high initial cost- since most customers will only look at the monthly tab. Indeed there are so many of us who do not want to seen GM fail finacnically, that we will probably buy every single one that they can push out the door, even at 40k a pop. Too bad for Pontiac and Olds - that they don't have a clone with in the works with an alternative mechanical configuration. Of course, covering that angle by GM would be asking for some real foresignt, so the other Marques will have to settle for slapping a different emblem on a slightly restyled version of the Volt. Not that anyone at Pontiac will read this, but here is a suggestion from an old admirer, one who 'remembers the day' (circa 1968): use the Chevy Volts mechanics, add some styling which is reminiscent of the old GTO, go for the lesser range (20 miles) and used advanced SLA batteries, price it accordingly, and voila - another winner (i.e. muscle car finally gets a degree).
Re: [Vo]:Quote
Fantastic ! Except did we not elect into the highest office in the land, the menace? ... matter of fact, W kinda reminds one of Dennis (metaphorically) Ruff, ruff - Original Message From: John Steck [EMAIL PROTECTED] I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the industrious, and the stupid. Each officer possesses at least two of these qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations. But whoever is stupid and industrious is a menace and must be removed immediately! - General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord 1933
Re: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Horse biscuits! 15,000 miles driven at 60 miles per hour takes 250 hours. If it takes 20 kW to push the Volt down the road that is 5000 kWh. At an average of $0.10 per kWh, that's $500. Someone is buying energy for one and half cents per kWh? Where? Terry On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:08 AM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today's headline - from the Volt page: Chevy Volt and the Electric Grid: Drive 15,000 Miles for $73 ... if this were true (which it isn't) the average buyer could save about $2,200 per year - if she never used the onboard engine (which is possible, but not likely). If the lease on the volt happened to be $340 month (guess) then the average cost per day of ownership would be about $5. This makes it affordable for almost anyone, no? I suppose that this is precisely how the Lutzs of the auto world mentally justify the high initial cost- since most customers will only look at the monthly tab. Indeed there are so many of us who do not want to seen GM fail finacnically, that we will probably buy every single one that they can push out the door, even at 40k a pop. Too bad for Pontiac and Olds - that they don't have a clone with in the works with an alternative mechanical configuration. Of course, covering that angle by GM would be asking for some real foresignt, so the other Marques will have to settle for slapping a different emblem on a slightly restyled version of the Volt. Not that anyone at Pontiac will read this, but here is a suggestion from an old admirer, one who 'remembers the day' (circa 1968): use the Chevy Volts mechanics, add some styling which is reminiscent of the old GTO, go for the lesser range (20 miles) and used advanced SLA batteries, price it accordingly, and voila - another winner (i.e. muscle car finally gets a degree).
Re: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
- Original Message From: Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Someone is buying energy for one and half cents per kWh? Where? In Lutz's dreams? Awkshully, the most effective part of any viral marketing campaign... g [Jon-Stewartesque-pause] ... is to troll out an unrealistic number, for its shock appeal and as a set-up (with some hidden, lame justification) ... ... in hopes that two or three pundits will do some napkin-calcs -- followed by a clever comment or two on the bogosity of the claim; which comments are then reads by dozens more, who then post them to their own favorite forum or mail group, ad nauseum. The end result is that walk-away message from all this, is not the fictious numbers, but that the 'Volt will save me tons of cash'. ...word gets around pdq these days about hidden motives ... right Karl? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQK1al91drs
Re: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Jones Beene wrote: Chevy Volt and the Electric Grid: Drive 15,000 Miles for $73 ... if this were true (which it isn't) the average buyer could save about $2,200 per year . . . As Terry pointed out, it is likely to be more like $500. But that is only $427 more; the average buyer saves $1,773. So it hardly affects your conclusion. - if she never used the onboard engine (which is possible, but not likely). Well, a lot of people have short commutes and would hardly ever use the engine, but they would not be likely to drive 15,000 miles per year (41 miles per day). But it would not be cost effective for them. I think the point was that if you drive, let's say, 50 miles per day, for the first 40 miles (or 15,000 miles per year), it cost ~$1.40 per day or ~$500 per year (not $74). After 40 miles it gets expensive. I think everyone understands pricing and mpg estimates will be complicated. MPG estimates for the Prius are also complicated. The mpg varies from ~44 to ~80 in my experience, depending on where you drive, how you drive, how long you drive, what the ambient temperature is and other factors. An ordinary ICE-only car has much more predictable performance. (Note that when I drive a car, I seem to have an uncanny ability to achieve the EPA mpg rating within 1 or 2 mpg. People often complain that cars do not achieve the rated capability, but I have not had that problem.) - Jed
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Jed - environmentalists have no influence over oil companies. You're making a joke here, right? Then who was it behind implementing all our laws reflecting environmental concerns re pipelines transport, available drilling locations offshore and otherwise, refinery locations, construction and modification permits, refined fuel formulas, Global Warming etc. etc.? The Saudis? OPEC? Maybe it was the oil companies themselves so they could run the price up due to artificially constrained supply because of environmental concerns through laws created for those reasons. But then we just had a discussion about Hanlon's razor, so I don't know... - Rick
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Rick Monteverde wrote: environmentalists have no influence over oil companies. You're making a joke here, right? I meant during the Bush administration. Then who was it behind implementing all our laws reflecting environmental concerns re pipelines transport, available drilling locations offshore and otherwise, refinery locations, construction and modification permits, refined fuel formulas, Global Warming etc. etc.? Richard Nixon, at first. He did an excellent job on the environment. These laws were written because the public at large demanded them. Environmentalists alone do not have clout. The laws were written with the advice and consent of the fossil fuels industry. They have had much more input than environmentalists. No responsible fossil fuel industry experts or decision-makers disagree with these laws. The laws have no impact whatever on the supply of oil, any more than pure food and drug acts have limited our supply of food. The US does not need additional refinery capacity because US oil consumption has hardly increased since the 1970s. The only reason oil is becoming more expensive is because US wells are tapped out, our production has plummeted from 9.64 bbl/day 5.82, worldwide production has peaked, and worldwide demand has increased. Not only is this not the fault of environmentalists, but on the contrary, if policymakers and the auto industry had listened to environmentalists, the US would be using fuel-efficient cars and we would be exporting oil. Maybe it was the oil companies themselves so they could run the price up due to artificially constrained supply because of environmental concerns There are no artificial constraints. Of course gasoline costs more because environmental protection laws are enforced, but that does not limit supplies of gasoline. Actually, it cost less overall because environmental laws reduce illness and other costs borne by the general public. Your assertion that environmentalists caused shortages and problems in the oil industry reminds me of the assertion made by the dairy industry in 1915 that doctors who insist on pasteurization drive up the cost of milk and cause artificial shortages and high prices for milk. The dairy industry did not realize that an industry which kills its customers and frightens the public does not have a future. Killing people and poisoning the environment in ways that can easily be prevented at a modest cost is bad for public relations, to say the least. Any industry with a milligram of enlightened self-interest will stop doing things like that! - Jed
Re: [VO]: Guess who's coming to dinner?
R C Macaulay wrote: Howdy Vorts, Let's see if I have this right,.. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer asked the SEC to prevent nekkid short selling of financial stocks to prevent further meltdown? So who's the guys doing it ? Not me ..said Wall Street.. look in your own back yard, Nancy girl. And a good chunk of the problem is almost certainly the repeal of the uptick rule. They did that a couple years back, very quietly, under pressure from hedge fund managers who found it an impediment to their program trading schemes. Testing before repeal to determine if repealing the rule would result in sufficient additional volatility to be a problem was somewhere between laughable and totally inadequate. The rule was instituted as part of the package of fixes after the '29 crash, as lack of an uptick rule contributed to the meltdown on Black Tuesday: As a stock starts to plummet, people -- or computers -- can decide to make a quick buck and short it on the way down. This accelerates the fall, of course, and can help to produce a free fall situation, where the asking price continues dropping with *no* *takers* (no transactions at all, because there are no offers to match against any asking price). Naked shorting -- selling stock without first borrowing it, IIRC -- can exacerbate the problem but it's not the heart of the problem. The heart of the problem is shorting on a downtick -- jumping on a falling stock to push it down faster. Note, particularly, that short sellers benefit enormously during a free fall situation -- the stock can go all the way to zero (company busted) and the short sellers just cheer. So, something to put the brakes on during a free fall is something they do not want. The uptick rule said no short sale could take place *except* after an uptick: A trade which took place at a price higher than the previous trade. That locks out short sellers during market collapses. Trouble is, hedge fund operators, who have an awful lot of money, *want* to jump on falling stocks to push them down faster, because it's a great way to make money, if you happen to have billions of dollars to throw around and a computer tied directly to the exchange data lines to make the trades for you. So, they lobbied long and hard to get the uptick rule repealed, and they eventually succeeded. And ever since it was repealed, the market has been wild -- far more volatile. And recently we've seen astonishing price collapses on a number of companies, with the price collapses contributing mightily to the financial problems of the markets and of the companies affected. (You better believe CEO's of large companies do not have quite the same interests as hedge fund managers! But the average CEO doesn't have anywhere near the resources available to him or her that a hedge fund manager does, and what's more most CEO's are too busy running their companies to pay a of attention to esoteric stock trading rules. As with so many situations, the only people who pay constant and close attention to the issue are the floor traders and fund managers who deal with it every day, but they actually represent one tiny special interest group whose interests are totally different from those of the rest of us.) And so the SEC has recently suspended short selling in something like 750 large securities, none too soon, IMHO. For sure, they should put the uptick rule back in place ASAP, as well, but I'd bet a box of bagels it's not going to happen -- too many rich gamblers really love the wild rides unbridled short selling can provide, never mind that the downside volatility it produces may ruin the occasional company, and probably acts to depress the world economy. The guys managing the Cal pension funds are the bad guys, wez' just kids playin' wid matches. The California Public Employees’ Retirement System, the nation’s largest pension fund, said that starting Thursday it is no longer lending out shares of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley, joining a growing number of public pension funds that are attempting to curb short-selling of two investment banks’ stocks. ( MSNBC News Sept 19) And I thought there may be sum'tin sneaky going on in the back room at the Dime Box Saloon.. man !, these people are incorrigible. Richard
Re: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message From: Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Someone is buying energy for one and half cents per kWh? Where? In Lutz's dreams? I'm also afraid that the Li battery might be a wet dream but not for the scarcity of the element. Lithium battery charge efficiency is quite poor above 90 deg F. And where are we gonna charge our Volts? Maybe not in the hot garage in Phoenix. Terry
Re: [VO]: Guess who's coming to dinner?
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 3:04 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Naked shorting -- Reminds me of cold weather streaking in my college days. :-) Terry
RE: [Vo]:Clever air motor
That seems very similar to the Norge Rollator compressor from very old refrigerators. -Original Message- From: OrionWorks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 5:48 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Clever air motor From Thomas: I'm really impressed with this design. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8aZVLpf-c http://webmail.usfamily.net/web/services/go.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtub e.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DDq8aZVLpf-c Pretty neat. As an alternative approach to compressed air I wonder if one could use a catalyst as fuel, meaning the controlled mixture of two chemicals to produce sufficient quantities of gas under pressure on demand instead of storing the stored energy in a large high pressure tank. I suspect some people might feel queasy about driving a vehicle with so much air pressure stored on-board. For example mixing baking soda and vinegar produces CO2. I wonder if an equivalent and economical chemistry could be exploited. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
- Original Message From: Terry Blanton Lithium battery charge efficiency is quite poor above 90 deg F. And where are we gonna charge our Volts? Maybe not in the hot garage in Phoenix. Speaking of hot batteries, Terry ... you may have seen this older story: http://pepei.pennnet.com/display_article/155624/6/ARCHI/none/PRODJ/1/AEP-dedicates-first-US-use-of-stationary-sodium-sulfur-battery/ ... matter of fact - in looking in the archives - we mentioned it here last year: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg22390.html The industrial-scale battery uses sodium metal instead of lithium. This could be telling us something about possible missed opportunities. The big problem - the battery only works when it is rather hot - like 500F and up - which is no problem for industrial sites. http://www.electricitystorage.org/tech/technologies_technologies_nas.htm However, if the PHEV car owner is willing to charge up his vehicle every night anyway at off-peak rates where it is easy to keep the battery hot ; and given that we have this great insulation material called frozen-smoke (aerogel) ... which should present the situation where heat loss can be minimized -- And given Ford was once a big player in this tech ... then why isn't this even being considered as viable - or is it? Jones Here is an 11 year old Canadian abstract - and it makes you wonder about the seven companies not to mention China and India - so - possibly this battery will not be a missed opportunity after all... just missed by the big-3. D. Sodium-Sulphur Batteries The Ford Motor Company used a sodium-sulphur (NaS) battery in its 1992 Ecostar because it offered three to four times the energy density of lead-acid batteries; in other words, a physically smaller battery could provide the same power. The NaS battery also has a range of about 241 km, roughly twice that of an EV powered with lead-acid batteries. This technology, however, has not received widespread acceptance for a number of reasons. For one, it is not considered user friendly. Because one of the electrodes is made of molten sulphur, the battery must be kept at a temperature of 300 to 350ºC. To keep the sulphur, and the sodium, from solidifying, the batteries have built-in heaters. As a result of these stringent operating requirements, NaS batteries currently cost seven times as much as lead-acid batteries. In addition, safety concerns were raised when two Ford test vehicles caught fire while using NaS batteries. This technology is not likely to emerge as an early leader in the race to find the best battery for electric vehicles. Companies in at least seven countries believe that it offers great potential, however, since it uses relatively cheap, abundant materials. These companies are all working to build on the advantages of the technology, while ridding it of its more troublesome problems. **As with any of these new battery technologies, mass production could quickly reduce costs.**
Re: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Terry Blanton wrote: On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 1:46 PM, Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message From: Terry Blanton [EMAIL PROTECTED] Someone is buying energy for one and half cents per kWh? Where? In Lutz's dreams? I'm also afraid that the Li battery might be a wet dream but not for the scarcity of the element. Lithium battery charge efficiency is quite poor above 90 deg F. Whoops! Say that again, slower! Its charge efficiency is *poor* above 90 F? That's F, right, not C? Uh.. Let's see, suppose we're pulling 60 horses, or 45 KW, from the batteries. If it's, say, a 300 volt pack, then that's 150 amps. (And if it's more than 300 volts, watch out driving through puddles...) So, we've got 150 amps coming out of some combination of batteries and mogen -- batteries alone until they're part way down, then mogen while the batteries charge up, with electrons hopefully being pushed into the batteries as fast as the mogen can free them up from the task of pushing the car. Now, let's assume you're driving the car in the summer, anywhere in the lower 48, or southern Canada. Exactly how are they going to keep the whole shebang below 90 F while it's doing that? Peltier coolers and big heat sinks? Gonna eat into the range a bit in hot weather, eh? And where are we gonna charge our Volts? Maybe not in the hot garage in Phoenix. Terry
Re: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
John Steck shot a load of stuff from the hip... snipped Oh dear, I didn't realise that according to John, the kind of neo-con thinking that got us into the various messes we're in, or about to be in - Climate change, peak oil, global financial meltdown and global overpopulation was what was needed to fix things in future too!! Are you feeling lucky, punks? On the side of the Planet - and the people - because they're worth it
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Jed - No responsible fossil fuel industry experts or decision-makers disagree with these laws. So oil industry experts and decision makers agree with the offshore drilling ban, for instance? Do they agree with this new phony-Pelosi drill-'em-where-they-aint law? Or do they agree that the permits they apply for regarding refinery construction or upgrades, or exploration and drilling rights should indeed be held up forever or denied due to the resistance of environmental groups and the regulations generated as a result of pressure from these groups? They would if they're in on this as a conspiracy, which, while I wouldn't rule it out altogether as a possibility, I seriously doubt. But you know, maybe a little less seriously than before. Hey, having their interests nationalized overseas worked out pretty well in the long run, maybe having a similar situation evolve back home ... The laws have no impact whatever on the supply of oil, any more than pure food and drug acts have limited our supply of food. Such bans and denials as above haven't had any impact whatsoever on fuel supply or cost? Really? A denial or restriction of access to domestic supply has no effect on supply? And restrictions on supply have no effect on end user cost? Did Pelosi and her gang just repeal the laws of supply and demand? I guess that is one of the noble goals of socialism. - Rick
[Vo]:Citizendium article pretty good
I have expanded and improved this from the original draft by Storms. (Perhaps Ed would not agree that I improved it! Actually I did not change the parts he wrote). See: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Cold_fusion If this were Wikipedia someone would have come and trashed everything I have written. So far that has not happened. The talk page is much more collegiate. There is much to be said for signing your real name to contributions. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Rick Monteverde wrote: No responsible fossil fuel industry experts or decision-makers disagree with these laws. So oil industry experts and decision makers agree with the offshore drilling ban, for instance? Well, they say they do. Anyway, they are not running out of places to drill. This is not a problem at all. They have many offshore leases in the areas now open to them which they have not even tried exploiting yet. They say this is because there are other places where oil can be extracted more cheaply. I assume they are telling the truth. You have to realize, no one in the oil industry is raising a ruckus about offshore drilling or yelling drill here till now. That is being done only by McCain and the Republican party, as a stunt. If the oil industry had wanted those limits changed it would have pushed through a law changing them years ago. The oil industry has enormous influence in Congress, to say the very least. Do they agree with this new phony-Pelosi drill-'em-where-they-aint law? This is nonsense. As I said there are huge unexploited resources in areas presently opened to drilling. However, they are expensive to explore and extract. The areas closer to shore would not be any less expensive or risky. The water is not much deeper and conditions at sea are about the same. I cannot understand why the Republicans and McCain are so anxious to use up remaining US oil reserves. Based on graphs of North Sea production, this could be done in about 10 or 20 years, but I think it would be foolish to exploit all remaining US resources when we can extract oil in Saudi Arabia, Canada, Mexico and elsewhere at a lower cost. I think it would be a bad idea for us to drain every last barrel of our own oil leaving us 100% dependent upon other countries in a few years, rather than a few decades. It is better to use up our remaining resources slowly -- to stretch them out. Or do they agree that the permits they apply for regarding refinery construction or upgrades . . . The industry has upgraded and increased the capacity of existing oil refineries. The government is always granted these applications. The industry has not applied to build any new refineries in recent decades because, as I mentioned, US consumption has barely increased since the 1970s. Why would they want to build refineries they do not need? What would be the point? Who told you they want new refineries? You need only glance at the curve of consumption to see they do not need additional refining capacity. You seem to believe some widespread propaganda regarding oil and energy. I suggest you read some books about the subject written by experts who have no political agenda, such as Deffeyes. Also, I suggest you spend some time reviewing the data at the Energy Information Administration: http://www.eia.doe.gov/ This is gold-plated accurate information, straight from top-notch industry sources. US major industry has many faults, but lying about industry statistics is not among them. This was noted as long ago as the 19th century. US heavy industry has always reported accurate information because it is in everyone's best interest. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Citizendium article pretty good
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 19 Sep 2008 17:46:29 -0400: Hi, [snip] I have expanded and improved this from the original draft by Storms. (Perhaps Ed would not agree that I improved it! Actually I did not change the parts he wrote). See: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Cold_fusion If this were Wikipedia someone would have come and trashed everything I have written. So far that has not happened. The talk page is much more collegiate. There is much to be said for signing your real name to contributions. - Jed Under explanations, I see no mention of Hydrinos, except perhaps indirectly in number 4? Creation of clusters of deuterons that interact as units. There is also an error farther down: Figure 3 shows a more recent example of excess heat. Compared to Fig. 2, this cell produced higher absolute power (~10 W), more excess energy (1.14 MJ), and a larger ratio of input to output (2500%). It should read .ratio of output to input (2500%). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Fri, 19 Sep 2008 15:09:18 -0400: Hi, [snip] I'm also afraid that the Li battery might be a wet dream but not for the scarcity of the element. Lithium battery charge efficiency is quite poor above 90 deg F. And where are we gonna charge our Volts? Maybe not in the hot garage in Phoenix. Terry The Volt really shines as a commuter vehicle, and particularly for short commutes where the gas engine is not needed. Hence ideally one doesn't try to charge the batteries from the engine (so hot recharging during the day doesn't occur). At night, the temperature is generally lower anyway, particularly after midnight, so if shouldn't be such a problem (just program it to start recharging as late as possible, but in time to be fully charged by the time you leave the next morning). Furthermore, as electricity supply shifts away from fossil fuels, it may not make much difference whether or not recharging is optimally efficient. Bottom line is that the drop in recharging efficiency is will probably only have a very minor overall impact. Imagine being stuck in traffic in the middle of the city, and opening the window to let the stuffy air *out*, and the fresh air *in*, while contemplating the complete silence of all the stopped electric motors as everyone enjoys their jolt of Volt. :) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:Citizendium article pretty good
Robin van Spaandonk wrote: Under explanations, I see no mention of Hydrinos, except perhaps indirectly in number 4? Creation of clusters of deuterons that interact as units. Ed wrote that section. I do not know enough about Hydrinos to write about them with confidence. Heck, I do not know enough about any theory. One of the big problems with these Wiki things has been people who do not know what they are talking about adding comments and editing other people's comments. Since I complain so much about this, I wouldn't want to be guilty of doing it myself. The other big problem is people adding stuff from sources which are not authoritative. (This is like buying the Republican Party's election-year fantasy version of oil industry requirements instead of reading what oil industry experts say.) The problem gets even worse when what you assume should be an authoritative source turn out to be bogus. I described an example of this in the talk section: I uploaded these graphs partly to address a false but widely believed assertion about cold fusion. It was repeated by David Volk, above: However, the so-called excess energy produced is nearly always approximately the experimental error, and repeated expertiments with better instrumentation, by the same authors, makes the excess energy diminish or disappear. Volk should not be faulted for believing this. He probably read it in what appears to be an authoritative source, such as the Scientific American which wrote nearly the same thing . . . Figure 3 shows a more recent example of excess heat. Compared to Fig. 2, this cell produced higher absolute power (~10 W), more excess energy (1.14 MJ), and a larger ratio of input to output (2500%). It should read .ratio of output to input (2500%). Oops! Thanks. I often get that backwards. Saying input/output is second nature to me. Re: oil industry and the Republican Party, have you ever known George Bush or Dick Cheney to do anything other than what the oil industry demands? Do you think that if the oil industry wanted the offshore limits changed, Bush would have hesitated for a nanosecond? He and the party could have said exactly what they are saying now anytime in the last eight years. There would have been no resistance to changing the limits from the Congress which was under Republican control for six years. McCain is on record and on video saying as recently as this year that he supports the offshore limits. These limits were passed by the first President Bush. Blaming them on the Democrats is political theater at its most preposterous. - Jed
[Vo]:dolphins blowing bubble rings
This link was sent to me by my sister. I don't know who wrote the comment. Harry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMCf7SNUb-Qfeature=related When you spend your life in the water, I guess you tend to develop a good intuition for its subtleties. Dolphins have been observed to create bubble rings by exhaling air carefully in the middle of the vortices caused by the motion of their fins through the water, among other techniques. Besides being nice to look at (and a neat demonstration of fluid mechanics), this phenomenon also might throw some light on dolphin cognition, since the skill to create the rings is a bit subtle and tends to be taught from one dolphin to the next via careful observation and practice. I'm also intrigued by the report that they seem to be using sonar to locate the vortex in the water, since that would be a fairly amazing bit of audio analysis.
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Jed - You seem to believe some widespread propaganda regarding oil and energy. I suggest you read some books about the subject written by experts who have no political agenda, such as Deffeyes. Also, I suggest you spend some time reviewing the data at the Energy Information Administration: Ok, so I Google on refinery + permits. Floods the browser with EPA.. environmentalist groups ... EPA ...environmentalist groups ... Hmm, anything buried in there about not wanting permits since none are needed? Lots about refinery capacity shortage, new plants needed, refinery permits applied for... Confirms what I have heard for years from numerous sources, independent of propaganda. High efficiency diesel, coal, nuke, natural gas, even wind solar - maybe even LENR someday - there's lots of alternatives out there, and desirable whether you believe peak oil theories or not given the undisputable pollution and foreign political realities. But again this comes down to AGW, because that's where the environmentalists' hearts are at nowadays. That is indeed why oil reserves will likely not be searched out and exploited, not because of artificially constrained consumption levels created by shortages and higher cost. It is blocked by laws, lawsuits, political pressure from citizens, and government personnel both elected and appointed who have caved to the AGW hysteria. The public record is bountiful and clear on these facts. Permits have been blocked in this country for nearly three decades by political efforts primarily driven by environmentalists, heightened in the last decade or so by AGW alarm. Yes Jed, reading more about these things is good - but only if you take off the political filters that prevent you from seeing the obvious truths that may not conform to the particular agenda you endorse. - Rick
RE: [Vo]:GM Chevy Volt at CalCars
Even Nick Palmer wrote: .. Actually it was environmentalists snip Thanks, that was my point. Why they do it is another subject. - Rick
[Vo]:Colbert interviews Lutz about Volt
Strange! See: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/185021/september-17-2008/bob-lutz Lutz is amazing guy. A GM exec from central casting. He honestly does not believe in global warming. Wattaguy! I suppose Cheney doesn't believe in global warming either. - Jed
