RE: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
Tsck! Vegan f.ing cats. What about in a zoo? Vegan f.ing lions and tigers!? Non-competitive sport, decaffeinated coffee, alcohol free beer, non-penetrative sex (so the woman doesn't feel stabbed in the feminist sense), new men, 'obscene wealth' and on and on. I can't be bothered to argue with these lefty nutcases anymore. I love the American notion of the right to bear arms and form militias to depose a despotic regime. Lefties must learn that you can't force people; the victims will hide wealth and talent and then disappear. I won't be forced to take part in these nutball schemes. I guess that's why there is such a large expat community from Britain and Europe in general. Sickened and out of here. Not like vortex of the old days. No calibre of thinkers only 2 other righties and 2 right-of-centre people worth noticing on this list. 'unsubscribe'
[VO]: Sub-prime submarines
Howdy Vorts, One can accept that liars can figure while figures don't lie.. well.. errr.. until we listen to Sec. Paulson explain how wonders can equal numbers while eating cucumbers... or numbers can perform wonders.. or.. err.. maybe I am just suspicious when anybody starts explaining how some poker chips just happened to fall off the table into sum'buddy's boot... but.. well,, the poker chips aren't real money.. err.. I mean.. well .. err.. we really don't know what the different chip colors mean because some may be counterfeit and some may belong to the saloon across the street.. but trust me.. We can get it all straightened out if the Dime Box Saloon bartender will sign this piece of paper.. well.. err.. yes, the amount is not filled out because we have some trustworthy people working on the numbers. We have the most experienced people working on it.. people that have been in Wall street for years and know how to solve problems like this.. trust me. Oh! Don't forget when you sign at the bottom to read the fine print on the back.. it's a guarantee and insured by AIG. THis is what happens when Ivy League people neglect to read ole Nick Machivelli's book. Richard
Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
To unsubscribe from the Vortex-L list simply send a null message (nothing in the body) to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word 'unsubscribe' in the subject (less quotes, of course). Namasté! Terry On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 6:41 AM, Remi Cornwall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tsck! Vegan f.ing cats. What about in a zoo? Vegan f.ing lions and tigers!? Non-competitive sport, decaffeinated coffee, alcohol free beer, non-penetrative sex (so the woman doesn't feel stabbed in the feminist sense), new men, 'obscene wealth' and on and on. I can't be bothered to argue with these lefty nutcases anymore. I love the American notion of the right to bear arms and form militias to depose a despotic regime. Lefties must learn that you can't force people; the victims will hide wealth and talent and then disappear. I won't be forced to take part in these nutball schemes. I guess that's why there is such a large expat community from Britain and Europe in general. Sickened and out of here. Not like vortex of the old days. No calibre of thinkers only 2 other righties and 2 right-of-centre people worth noticing on this list. 'unsubscribe' attachment: Aum Om.jpg
Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
would it be time to comprehend the GEET plasma reactor method then? ive tried to put together a Pantone week on MERLib and this is the result: http://merlib.org/?q=person/paul-pantone their thermal discovery seems interesting, i grabbed it from their old powerpoint files. what the picture basically is about, is, that if you have two identical jars, one with water at 40c and one with water at 200c, if you place them in a fridge at a lower temperature than either, the one with the greater amount of temperature actually meets the fridge temperature quicker than the one closer to the fridge temperature. i see that the pantone thing is either called a plasma reactor, a refinery/carburetor system, or purely just transmutation. he seems to use the alignment of the magnetic field, a steel iron rod of specific length, temperature and so forth to mix gasoline with any carbon-containing liquids, going from ketchup to piss to orange juice to anything sugary. if anyone here knows french, theres a website with hundreds upon hundreds of lawnmowers, tractors, cars and so forth modified to run with this mixing method. a man at the maryland june2008 get-together showed his GEET replication, and put any number of different liquids into it just to show that the result is a clean-burning fuel .. anyway, i've tried to get some various points of view together and seems like he was a poor businessman, and thus ended up in court, and now in utah mental hospital under forced antipsychotics due to them believing he's completely kookoo to be able to run an engine with mostly water and other liquids, mxied in with gas - and also that he must be psychotic, after all, if he believes the governments and oilcompanies are after his carborator and gasoline / mixing gasoline refinement method. go figure. 2008/9/22 Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I normally pay little attention to magazine articles with titles like this, but this one appears to be authoritative. See: http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/15/news/economy/500dollaroil_okeefe.fortune/ Other oil experts make similar predictions but nowhere near as dire in the short term. - Jed -- :) I GoodSearch for Wilhelm Reich Infant Trust Foundation (Rangeley, Maine) by using http://www.goodsearch.com/ . Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
Esa Ruoho wrote: would it be time to comprehend the GEET plasma reactor method then? ive tried to put together a Pantone week on MERLib and this is the result: http://merlib.org/?q=person/paul-pantone their thermal discovery seems interesting, i grabbed it from their old powerpoint files. what the picture basically is about, is, that if you have two identical jars, one with water at 40c and one with water at 200c, if you place them in a fridge at a lower temperature than either, the one with the greater amount of temperature actually meets the fridge temperature quicker than the one closer to the fridge temperature. What kind of jar -- presumably a pressure vessel, for the 200C water at least? Do they show cooling curves? If so, what does the 200C cooling curve look like after it passes 40C? Does it duplicate the 40C curve from there down? If not, then there's something different either in its heat content at that temp or in the rate at which heat leaks out of the 200C vessel; it should be pretty straightforward to figure out what's going on. Without cooling curves it's hard to say anything about it. i see that the pantone thing is either called a plasma reactor, a refinery/carburetor system, or purely just transmutation. he seems to use the alignment of the magnetic field, a steel iron rod of specific length, temperature and so forth to mix gasoline with any carbon-containing liquids, going from ketchup to piss to orange juice to anything sugary. if anyone here knows french, theres a website with hundreds upon hundreds of lawnmowers, tractors, cars and so forth modified to run with this mixing method. URL? a man at the maryland june2008 get-together showed his GEET replication, and put any number of different liquids into it just to show that the result is a clean-burning fuel .. anyway, i've tried to get some various points of view together and seems like he was a poor businessman, and thus ended up in court, and now in utah mental hospital under forced antipsychotics due to them believing he's completely kookoo to be able to run an engine with mostly water and other liquids, mxied in with gas - and also that he must be psychotic, after all, if he believes the governments and oilcompanies are after his carborator and gasoline / mixing gasoline refinement method. go figure. 2008/9/22 Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I normally pay little attention to magazine articles with titles like this, but this one appears to be authoritative. See: http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/15/news/economy/500dollaroil_okeefe.fortune/ Other oil experts make similar predictions but nowhere near as dire in the short term. - Jed
[Vo]:DiLithium ... (reposting)
This is a repost of a message sent Sunday, which did not make it to the archives. For some reason some messages sent on the weekend do not get into the archives. I am writing a second part to the message below, which may seem a little too flippant to be serious. But is does have a serious underpinning, and a least the next message will provide a way to falsify the concept. Original message: Imagine a somber kyrie eleison in the background ... combined with Pastor Rod turning on a flickering TV rerun - and flashback 42 years as he takes the pulpit. Yes former trekkies, Gene Roddenberry's original goes all the way back to 1966! More than a few vorticians were, once-upon-a-time or in a recent past-life, of the SciFi persuasion; and probably already realize by now, decades later, that many of the fictional plot elements indelibly imprinted in the psyche back then are still pretty good metaphors for real life. So good in fact, that I am trying not to divert this post into the larger subject of what is real? and also trying not to divert into theology... since by religiously watching and appreciating this metaphorical television series, even from the reruns of Star Trek, many young minds have gained a much better appreciation, decades later, for yes, heresy-of-heresie: the Bible as metaphor for helping to understand the complexities of life... i.e. only coming from a much older technology base as it were. Had to sneak in that last observation this morning, as part of this sermonette -- since it is obvious from the time-stamp that I am not 'worshiping' in the traditional sense.. Anyway, this message is devoted to the real dilithium (Dt) -- which as former trekkies know was used to power the Warp Drive by manipulating antimatter. In the original series, dilithium crystals occurred naturally and could not be replicated, despite all the other routine miracles at Scotty's disposal. In Star Trek IV, Spock discovers a method of re-crystallizing the spent fuel by using an antique fission reactor LOL. This technique was not used earlier because fission reactors had long been replaced by cleaner technology, and presumably were all buried under Nevada. For those into 'trivial pursuits': dilithium's chemical symbol is Dt and its atomic weight is 87 but we do not know its atomic number since it is presumably, as a member of the hypersonic series of elements, not a real element at all- but a hybrid nucleus perhaps (that was never explained very well). It is worth noting that strontium, a prime hydrino catalyst - has an isotope 87-Sr (7% of natural). It is also worth noting for the following takeoff on dilithium in today's sermonette (to be flashed-out more thoroughly in a later posting)- that there is a possibility of 'quasi-bosons' i.e. of paired real lithium-6 (think: dilithium !) producing energy in an unusual way. Wouldn't that be a hoot, if it were accurate? Life is stranger than fiction. Of course the atomic mass of 87 cannot be bosonic, but that is one of the quaint differences for our parallel universe - the kind of difference which makes Star Trek only a good metaphor for what might prove to be real some day in a slightly different incarnation. The version of dilithium which will be hypothesized today (and you will hear it no place else, thankfully) will be bosonic, spintronic, excitonic - and will have a composite atomic mass of 72 (to be fully explained). In particle physics, bosons are particles which obey Bose-Einstein statistics; and in contrast to the fermions like 87Sr, several bosons can occupy the same quantum state and even the *same space* in theory. This bosonic state is fully associated with *energy carriers* - while the fermionic state is not - and that last trait is an important feature for alternative energy in general - and probably is a factor in cold fusion (as many have noted) since even a temporary boson (nanosecond lifetime) can possibly connect to the Dirac sea. All observed bosons have integer spin at some level, as opposed to fermions, which have half-integer spin. Bosons may be either elementary, like the photon, or composite, like mesons- and far beyond in complexity- up to at least the level of multiples of atoms. The most important feature is that bosons with the exact same energy level, even if it transitory and statistical, can occupy the same locale in 3-space, and superimpose. They do not necessarily need to be cold to do this - but getting them to the same energy level is far easier when they are very cold. Photons are elementary bosons but elements which are bosons are not elementary bosons! - but instead these are composite particles (such as hadrons, nuclei, and atoms) which can be bosons or fermions depending on their totality of constituents, and the pairing of those constituents (primarily to achieve an integer of spin). The added complexity of course makes it harder to get them all into the same energy state. Because of the
Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
2008/9/23 Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED]: i see that the pantone thing is either called a plasma reactor, a refinery/carburetor system, or purely just transmutation. he seems to use the alignment of the magnetic field, a steel iron rod of specific length, temperature and so forth to mix gasoline with any carbon-containing liquids, going from ketchup to piss to orange juice to anything sugary. if anyone here knows french, theres a website with hundreds upon hundreds of lawnmowers, tractors, cars and so forth modified to run with this mixing method. URL? http://quanthomme.free.fr/qhsuite/index.html http://www.econologie.com/le-moteur-pantone-definition.html http://www.leblogauto.com/2005/09/moteur_thermiqu.html -- :) I GoodSearch for Wilhelm Reich Infant Trust Foundation (Rangeley, Maine) by using http://www.goodsearch.com/ . Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
Esa ive tried to put together a Pantone week on MERLib and this is the result: http://merlib.org/?q=person/paul-pantone Nice work, and it looks like you already know of the large amount of work being done in France on this kind of fuel-reformer, and esp. from the Quanthomme website (love that pun). Some French mecs were apparently initially attracted to his home-boy sounding name, Pantone, even though he is from Utah (home of the 'Painted Desert' g) Anyway- one question: I was under the impression that the steel rod down the center of the intake manifold has proved to be unnecessary. Is there evidence that it is beneficial? Jones
Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
Succinct as ever. God how I've missed that. Best wishes. I've had my fill as well... later. -john -- From: Remi Cornwall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 5:41 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil Tsck! Vegan f.ing cats. What about in a zoo? Vegan f.ing lions and tigers!? Non-competitive sport, decaffeinated coffee, alcohol free beer, non-penetrative sex (so the woman doesn't feel stabbed in the feminist sense), new men, 'obscene wealth' and on and on. I can't be bothered to argue with these lefty nutcases anymore. I love the American notion of the right to bear arms and form militias to depose a despotic regime. Lefties must learn that you can't force people; the victims will hide wealth and talent and then disappear. I won't be forced to take part in these nutball schemes. I guess that's why there is such a large expat community from Britain and Europe in general. Sickened and out of here. Not like vortex of the old days. No calibre of thinkers only 2 other righties and 2 right-of-centre people worth noticing on this list. 'unsubscribe'
[Vo]:unsubscribe
Re: [Vo]:unsubscribe
send to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:09 AM, John Steck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
Ron Wormus wrote: . . . a single sentence of thirty-two words, but it represents a significant consolidation of power and an abdication of oversight authority that's so flat-out astounding that it ought to set one's hair on fire. It reads, in its entirety: Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency. Many people have noticed this! I doubt it will be included in the final bill. The measure will run up the budget deficit by a significant amount, with no guarantee of recouping the outlay . . . Well, it won't be entirely lost, even in the worst case. The properties are worth something. I think the worst are worth perhaps half or one-tenth as much as their present value. The taxpayers are likely to lose $200 billion or so, I think. In some previous bailouts, such the Chrysler bailout, the government ended up making money. Bailouts are still a bad idea in my opinion, but people should realize that the entire amount is not at risk. Some undefinable fraction of it is. - Jed
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
On Sep 23, 2008, at 11:41 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Ron Wormus wrote: . . . a single sentence of thirty-two words, but it represents a significant consolidation of power and an abdication of oversight authority that's so flat-out astounding that it ought to set one's hair on fire. It reads, in its entirety: Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency. Many people have noticed this! I doubt it will be included in the final bill. While I agree you are probable right Jed. However, you can be sure that the people who have a stake in how the system works and are interested in increasing their control, will not ignore a chance to increase their power. As a result, we are becoming less of a democracy, which is probably a good thing in view of how little thought or knowledge goes into the choice of president. The measure will run up the budget deficit by a significant amount, with no guarantee of recouping the outlay . . . Well, it won't be entirely lost, even in the worst case. The properties are worth something. I think the worst are worth perhaps half or one-tenth as much as their present value. The taxpayers are likely to lose $200 billion or so, I think. In some previous bailouts, such the Chrysler bailout, the government ended up making money. Bailouts are still a bad idea in my opinion, but people should realize that the entire amount is not at risk. Some undefinable fraction of it is. Most agree, the fraction of worthless assets is much higher than ever before. In addition, the country is too weak in other respects to make a recovery possible. A country does not create a huge debt at all levels, then ship much of its manufacturing ability overseas, and then allow other countries to acquire the power that comes with owning so many dollars without paying a great price when the house of cards falls. Bush has created a perfect storm. I hope the people who elected and supported him are pleased. Ed - Jed
[Vo]:The end of corn-ethanol
Great News for the Heartland - in fact it comes from the corn-belt, but will certainly cause the collapse of high corn prices eventually, possibly as early as next year if subsidies for ethanol are removed. The end of food-grain derived ethanol now appears to be firmly on the horizon ! Yesterday, an alternative fuel developed by U of Wisconsin prof. James Dumesic was announced which looks a lot like the gasoline and diesel fuel used in vehicles today. That's because the new fuel is identical at the molecular level to petroleum-based fuel. The only difference is where it comes from. The process creates transportation fuels from unedible plant material, even waste and especially sawdust. Dumesic's paper is published in 'Science' (copyrighted) but the feedstock is said to be any kind of lignocellulose. Lignocellulose refers to nonedible sources of biomass instead of corn, and includes ag waste, corn stovers (leaves and stalks), switchgrass and forest and yard residue. The process begins by converting lignocellulose into raw sugars to which a solid catalyst in an aqueous solution is added, leading to the an organic oil-like solution floating on top of the water. The oil layer, which is easily separated, contains molecules of ketones and cyclics which are functional intermediates. These molecules are the precursors to fuel. No distillation will be required since these, like gasoline are not water soluble. No distillation means a *Big difference* in the net energy balance, so that even if the yield per ton is lower, the end-result is far better. Corn is now selling at the equivalent of 18 cents per pound - an all-time high and triple its historic range. Most ag waste is unused and costs around 2 cents per pound, or is free - if you will remove it. Therefore even a 50% lower yield means the relative cost of feedstock goes up to 4 cents versus 18 cents. Due to changes in supply and demand, this gap will close - but there are other great reason NOT to use corn. Plant sugars contain equal numbers of carbon and oxygen atoms, making it difficult to create high-octane or cetane fuels. The solution was to catalytically remove the oxygen. The reactive molecules then can then be upgraded into different forms of fuel, and that is why the yield is lower. Dumesic's team demonstrated three different upgrading processes- meaning that this is fairly robust and could be in pre-commerical prototype stage soon. This is fantastic news! Here is the good professor's homepage: http://jamesadumesic.che.wisc.edu/ BTW - there have been at least two announcements by others of something similar but less advanced - so this is not the only possible way to end the used of food grain for fuel. Jones
Re: [Vo]:The end of corn-ethanol
Jones Beene wrote: Yesterday, an alternative fuel developed by U of Wisconsin prof. James Dumesic was announced which looks a lot like the gasoline and diesel fuel used in vehicles today. That's because the new fuel is identical at the molecular level to petroleum-based fuel. The only difference is where it comes from. As I have pointed out before, several times, it does not matter where it comes from. If you converted the entire plant growth of North America -- every stick, every leaf, acorn and grain of corn grown in the continent -- into fuel you would not have half enough fuel. The whole notion of large-scale biofuel grown in natural conditions is absurd. Things like algae grown in tanks, and so on, are different. Beene refers to ag waste. As I have pointed out numerous times, most of the energy in agricultural plants is in the seeds, and we eat them. All plants concentrate energy in the seeds, and plants bred for food concentrate even more (making them vulnerable to natural enemies and competing plants -- weeds). We do not leave much energy behind in ag waste. So, the most you could possibly get out of agricultural leftovers and waste would be less than the total amount we eat, which is 2000 kcal per day. That's 2.3 kWH, or 8.4 MJ, or 0.06 gallons of gasoline, ignoring losses during production of the fuel. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The end of corn-ethanol
Hmm, since its a conversion of the cellulose tissue, thats not neccesarily true. tree waste certainly has a lot more energy than the seeds it makes does. On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jones Beene wrote: Yesterday, an alternative fuel developed by U of Wisconsin prof. James Dumesic was announced which looks a lot like the gasoline and diesel fuel used in vehicles today. That's because the new fuel is identical at the molecular level to petroleum-based fuel. The only difference is where it comes from. As I have pointed out before, several times, it does not matter where it comes from. If you converted the entire plant growth of North America -- every stick, every leaf, acorn and grain of corn grown in the continent -- into fuel you would not have half enough fuel. The whole notion of large-scale biofuel grown in natural conditions is absurd. Things like algae grown in tanks, and so on, are different. Beene refers to ag waste. As I have pointed out numerous times, most of the energy in agricultural plants is in the seeds, and we eat them. All plants concentrate energy in the seeds, and plants bred for food concentrate even more (making them vulnerable to natural enemies and competing plants -- weeds). We do not leave much energy behind in ag waste. So, the most you could possibly get out of agricultural leftovers and waste would be less than the total amount we eat, which is 2000 kcal per day. That's 2.3 kWH, or 8.4 MJ, or 0.06 gallons of gasoline, ignoring losses during production of the fuel. - Jed
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
Jed, There needs to be more transparency. How many mortgages are actually in default? I heard less than 20%. Why not just pay those off from the bottom up instead of rescuing all these guys who leveraged themselves at 30:1? I don't trust Bush his gang of theives. I see it as a last theft before they head out the door. Anyway we can now spam Nigerians: Dear Sir: I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude. I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you. I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe. This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred. Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds. Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury Paulson --On Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:41 PM -0400 Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ron Wormus wrote: . . . a single sentence of thirty-two words, but it represents a significant consolidation of power and an abdication of oversight authority that's so flat-out astounding that it ought to set one's hair on fire. It reads, in its entirety: Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency. Many people have noticed this! I doubt it will be included in the final bill. The measure will run up the budget deficit by a significant amount, with no guarantee of recouping the outlay . . . Well, it won't be entirely lost, even in the worst case. The properties are worth something. I think the worst are worth perhaps half or one-tenth as much as their present value. The taxpayers are likely to lose $200 billion or so, I think. In some previous bailouts, such the Chrysler bailout, the government ended up making money. Bailouts are still a bad idea in my opinion, but people should realize that the entire amount is not at risk. Some undefinable fraction of it is. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The end of corn-ethanol
- Original Message From: Jed Rothwell As I have pointed out before, several times, it does not matter where it comes from. If you converted the entire plant growth of North America -- every stick, every leaf, acorn and grain of corn grown in the continent -- into fuel you would not have half enough fuel. As I have pointed out before, several times, you have relied on an incorrect and woefully outdated source, Pimentel, who has been debunked over and over again. Plus the part about biomass from cellulose lacking energy, compared to seeds is clearly in error, and you seem to be confusing protein with energy. Jones
Re: [Vo]:The end of corn-ethanol
leaking pen wrote: Hmm, since its a conversion of the cellulose tissue, thats not neccesarily true. tree waste certainly has a lot more energy than the seeds it makes does. Not over the entire life of the tree. And, as I said, especially not for a domesticated agricultural tree, such as an apple or orange tree. Most of the chemical energy ends up in the fruit. I was thinking more of grain crops, however, such as corn and wheat. I am not suggesting that it is a bad idea to make ethanol out of sawdust and ag waste. The addition of 0.06 gallons of gasoline per capita would be welcome. However, it will not significantly impact on the energy crisis or the world supply of oil. U.S. oil consumption is 20,680,000 barrels per day, or 868,560,000 gallons. That's about 2.8 gallons per capita per day. There is no way 0.06 gallons (2% of that) is going have much impact. That's on the same scale as checking your tire air pressure -- which is a darn good idea, by the way! Saves gas and makes the car safer to drive, too. Even if I had miscalculated by a large factor, I doubt it is more than 5% of oil. Things like plug in hybrids will have a far bigger impact. They could reduce oil consumption by two thirds in a decade. That is the scale of the change we need. Naturally we could do both: ag waste and plug-in hybrids. But there is a limited amount of capital available (and way less than there was a week ago). Money and skilled engineers are always a limited resource. We should invest in technology that will have the biggest impact first. It is usually used to tell which has the biggest impact: you find out which saves the most money. That is a crude metric, but it works. - Jed
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
At 03:47 PM 9/23/2008, Ron Wormus wrote: Jed, There needs to be more transparency. How many mortgages are actually in default? I heard less than 20%. Amen to that. As I said, the quickest way to separate the sheep from the goats would be to demand that any company that participates in bailout must first liquidate and go into Chapter 11. Companies know how much money they have lost. (Or if they don't, they are a lost cause.) The basket cases will come forward and let the government handle the fire sale. I love your letter! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The end of corn-ethanol
Jones Beene wrote: As I have pointed out before, several times, you have relied on an incorrect and woefully outdated source, Pimentel, who has been debunked over and over again. Yes, by the ethanol lobby. He and I are well aware of their take on the matter. We don't trust their numbers. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The end of corn-ethanol
- Original Message JB: As I have pointed out before, several times, you have relied on an incorrect and woefully outdated source, Pimentel, who has been debunked over and over again. JR: Yes, by the ethanol lobby. He and I are well aware of their take on the matter. We don't trust their numbers. Nobody really cares who Pimentel trusts these days, as he is ancient history and part of the problem - not part of the solution. Plus the new numbers come not only from the Farm Lobby and NREL, but also from by the US Department of Agriculture itself: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/biomass/pdfs/final_billionton_vision_report2.pdf A panel established by the Congress to guide the future direction of federally funded biomass RD, envisioned a 30 percent replacement of the current U.S. petroleum consumption with biofuels by 2030 - that is the so-called billion ton per year renewable goal. Yes - it was visionary, and criticized by the anti-ethanol lobby in league with the petroleum industry. Since some of the needed technology was not even around when it was formulated a couple of years ago, it was easy to poo-poo, but things are changing rapidly now that top Universities have gotten fully geared up - 'necessity being the mother of invention' and all of that. Due to the huge breakthrough mentioned in the original posting, it is possible that with the political willpower, this goal could be reached even sooner; i.e. with the combined promotion of non-food biomass as the energy source, and big emphasis on aquaculture at coal-fired plants using CO2, and the stimulation of the PHEV and clean diesel technology to a greater level. All it takes is political willpower, and one strategy which should be considered is the conditional removal of the oil depletion allowances and other tax breaks to Big-Oil and Big-Coal etc - to this extent: all the tax break dollars must be immediately plowed back into renewable fuels, especially to aquaculture at coal plants - or they will be forfeited. Jones
[Vo]:The end of corn-ethanol
Subject: The end of corn-ethanol
Resent-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:54:14 -0700
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:54:10 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Jones Beene [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Hi All,
This is great news. With compressed natural gas freed up
by wind power electricity to run U. S. trucks, (See the
Pickens Plan) there is no reason that the U. S. could not
be an exporter of oil in five years.
Follow the example of the Iranians. They sell all their
oil and run their cars and trucks on compressed natural
gas. So there are no refineries to blow up.
The process described below is great for making liquid
fuel, to be stored, transported, and sold by existing
facilities, to be used in plug-in hybrids.
Jack Smith
-
Jones wrote on 9-23-08
``Great News for the Heartland - in fact it comes from the
corn-belt, but will certainly cause the collapse of high
corn prices eventually, possibly as early as next year if
subsidies for ethanol are removed.
The end of food-grain derived ethanol now appears to be
firmly on the horizon!
Yesterday, an alternative fuel developed by U of Wisconsin
prof. James Dumesic was announced which looks a lot like
the gasoline and diesel fuel used in vehicles today. That's
because the new fuel is identical at the molecular level
to petroleum-based fuel. The only difference is where it
comes from.
The process creates transportation fuels from
unedible plant material, even waste and especially
sawdust. Dumesic's paper is published in 'Science'
(copyrighted) but the feedstock is said to be any kind
of lignocellulose.
Lignocellulose refers to nonedible sources of biomass
instead of corn, and includes ag waste, corn stovers
(leaves and stalks), switchgrass and forest and yard
residue. The process begins by converting lignocellulose
into raw sugars to which a solid catalyst in an aqueous
solution is added, leading to the an organic oil-like
solution floating on top of the water. The oil layer,
which is easily separated, contains molecules of ketones
and cyclics which are functional intermediates. These
molecules are the precursors to fuel. No distillation
will be required since these, like gasoline are not water
soluble.
No distillation means a *Big difference* in the net energy
balance, so that even if the yield per ton is lower,
the end-result is far better. Corn is now selling at the
equivalent of 18 cents per pound - an all-time high and
triple its historic range. Most ag waste is unused and
costs around 2 cents per pound, or is free - if you will
remove it. Therefore even a 50% lower yield means the
relative cost of feedstock goes up to 4 cents versus 18
cents. Due to changes in supply and demand, this gap will
close - but there are other great reason NOT to use corn.
Plant sugars contain equal numbers of carbon and oxygen
atoms, making it difficult to create high-octane or
cetane fuels. The solution was to catalytically remove the
oxygen. The reactive molecules then can then be upgraded
into different forms of fuel, and that is why the yield
is lower.
Dumesic's team demonstrated three different upgrading
processes- meaning that this is fairly robust and could
be in pre-commerical prototype stage soon.
This is fantastic news! Here is the good professor's
homepage:
http://jamesadumesic.che.wisc.edu/home.htm
BTW - there have been at least two announcements by others
of something similar but less advanced - so this is not the
only possible way to end the used of food grain for fuel.''
Jones
---
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1159210?ijkey=cDSwxrRJ6esFQkeytype=refsiteid=sci
Abstract Published Online
September 18, 2008
Science DOI:
10.1126/science.1159210
Reports
Submitted on April 16, 2008
Accepted on September 5, 2008
``Catalytic Conversion of Biomass to Monofunctional
Hydrocarbons and Targeted Liquid-Fuel Classes
Edward L. Kunkes 1, Dante A. Simonetti 1, Ryan M. West 1,
Juan Carlos Serrano-Ruiz 1, Christian A. Gärtner 1, James
A. Dumesic 1*
1 Department of Chemical and Biological Engineering,
University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI 53706, USA.
* To whom correspondence should be addressed. James
A. Dumesic , E-mail: dumesic{at}engr.wisc.edu
It is imperative to develop more efficient processes for
conversion of biomass to liquid fuels, such that the cost
of these fuels would be competitive with the cost of fuels
derived from petroleum.
We report a catalytic approach for the conversion of
carbohydrates to specific classes of hydrocarbons for use
as liquid transportation fuels, based on the integration
of several flow reactors operated in a cascade mode, where
the effluent from the one reactor is simply fed to the
next reactor. This approach can be tuned for production of
branched hydrocarbons and aromatic compounds in gasoline,
or longer chain, less highly branched hydrocarbons in
diesel and jet fuels.
The liquid organic effluent from the first flow reactor
contains mono-functional compounds, such
Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:41:44 -0600: Hi, [snip] The obese problem will gradually go away and be replaced by the underweight problem. I wonder how the government will handle this problem? [snip] The problem of obesity may not go away, because it is probably more related to eating the wrong things than to eating too much. For it to go away would require a shift back to home cooking and away from fast food and snacks. Even then I suspect that it would also require the banning of margarine and canola. Margarine (and fast food) contains trans fats which interfere with the energy transport mechanism of the cell, and canola is IMO the primary candidate for an explanation of tiny holes in the insulating layer of fat that the body uses for blood vessels and nerves. Natural body processes attempt to plug these holes with cholesterol which then gives rise to plaques. When these plaques occur in the arteries around the heart they call it arteriosclerosis, when they occur around nerve cells in the brain they call it Alzheimer's disease. (All this is just my opinion, but I think worthy of further investigation). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:05:37 -0600: Hi, [snip] I hope the people who elected and supported him are pleased. [snip] He was voted for by lots of people, but he was never elected, as both elections were rigged. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
I agree, Robin. The food industry has made money at our expense, at least at the expense of people who don't do their homework. But don't me started on this outrage. When trying to predict the future in order to protect myself, I ask, how many basic mistakes at every level of living can a country make and still survive? More to the point, how can a person avoid from being hit by this run-away truck? Ed On Sep 23, 2008, at 4:53 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:41:44 -0600: Hi, [snip] The obese problem will gradually go away and be replaced by the underweight problem. I wonder how the government will handle this problem? [snip] The problem of obesity may not go away, because it is probably more related to eating the wrong things than to eating too much. For it to go away would require a shift back to home cooking and away from fast food and snacks. Even then I suspect that it would also require the banning of margarine and canola. Margarine (and fast food) contains trans fats which interfere with the energy transport mechanism of the cell, and canola is IMO the primary candidate for an explanation of tiny holes in the insulating layer of fat that the body uses for blood vessels and nerves. Natural body processes attempt to plug these holes with cholesterol which then gives rise to plaques. When these plaques occur in the arteries around the heart they call it arteriosclerosis, when they occur around nerve cells in the brain they call it Alzheimer's disease. (All this is just my opinion, but I think worthy of further investigation). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
On Sep 23, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:05:37 -0600: Hi, [snip] I hope the people who elected and supported him are pleased. [snip] He was voted for by lots of people, but he was never elected, as both elections were rigged. True, but small comfort. Nevertheless, this rigging would not have been effective if the election had not been so close. Now we have another close election, which demonstrates the total irrational thinking of at least 1/2 of the population. Ed Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Vo]:Quote of the Day
The greatest advances in all of science have always come from ideas that were vilified. From Galileo, to Columbus, to Semmelweis whose career was destroyed for having the audacity to suggest that physicians should wash their hands before delivering a baby. We can proudly add to that list Martin Fleischmann, Stanley Pons, and many of the people in this very room today. Dr. Irving Dardik [SuperWaves] in his acceptance speech at ICCF14 for the Preparata Medal
[Vo]:Dodge (Re)Charger
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080923/BUSINESS01/80923029 Chrysler LLC is unveiling three electric vehicles today, one of which will be ready for sale by the end of 2010, a top company executive said, in what he expects will be shocks to the industry. skip We will have partnerships on the batteries, Klegon said. We're working with more than one potential supplier on the battery side now. more
RE: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
Dr. Robert Atkins makes a good case that humans evolved carnivorous, the teeth for example are designed for meat eating, and that the ability to eat carbohydrates ( veggies ) was a design afterthought and is not well developed, often resulting in diabetes, and requires insulin to process, which is a powerful cross-linking agent and somewhat toxic. His diet consists of zero carbohydrates (only meat, cheese, fish, eggs, cream etc. -- i.e. only animal products, no plant products ), and I must say it works quite well and leaves the blood sugar level at an optimum level at all times. You can eat all you want and not gain weight. -Original Message- From: leaking pen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:52 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil hypocritical also means applying opposite standards to oneself. She feels humans are natural herbivores, ...
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
Since we are speculating on presidential outcomes I thought this might be a good opportunity to share the opinions of a blatantly unscientific and unverified source - particularly insofar as this source's take on the election. Please take the following predictions with a grain of salt. ;-) The election will not be close. The democrats including presidential VP candidates Obama Biden will win by an unprecedented landslide this November. The reason the polls have appeared so close is that the pollsters are favoring the polling of undecided voters, which greatly skews the actual numbers. A new Republican presidential administration only has somewhere around a 10% chance of winning the presidential office this November. However, (and this is the really frightening point, from my POV) if the Republicans do manage to pull it off and win the presidential office, the age of the candidate, combined with pressures of acting as president, combined with PTSD (a diagnosis which BTW was never officially diagnosed because it would have ended McCain's political career decades ago), combined with a past history of a virulent form of cancer which is still in his body, will likely conspire and finish McCain off within a year after assuming the office. On top of that McCain isn't all that enthusiastic about being president. He accepted the role because his party asked him to, and being the good soldier that he is he wishes to serve his country. Meanwhile, Palin has picked up on most of these cues. It's why she accepted the VP position. She knows that it's likely that within a year of assuming the VP, she would then be president - without actually having to work at it. Shrewd. And now back to regularly scheduled programming. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/OrionWorks
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
Good analysis Steven. I hope you are right. Ed On Sep 23, 2008, at 7:55 PM, OrionWorks wrote: Since we are speculating on presidential outcomes I thought this might be a good opportunity to share the opinions of a blatantly unscientific and unverified source - particularly insofar as this source's take on the election. Please take the following predictions with a grain of salt. ;-) The election will not be close. The democrats including presidential VP candidates Obama Biden will win by an unprecedented landslide this November. The reason the polls have appeared so close is that the pollsters are favoring the polling of undecided voters, which greatly skews the actual numbers. A new Republican presidential administration only has somewhere around a 10% chance of winning the presidential office this November. However, (and this is the really frightening point, from my POV) if the Republicans do manage to pull it off and win the presidential office, the age of the candidate, combined with pressures of acting as president, combined with PTSD (a diagnosis which BTW was never officially diagnosed because it would have ended McCain's political career decades ago), combined with a past history of a virulent form of cancer which is still in his body, will likely conspire and finish McCain off within a year after assuming the office. On top of that McCain isn't all that enthusiastic about being president. He accepted the role because his party asked him to, and being the good soldier that he is he wishes to serve his country. Meanwhile, Palin has picked up on most of these cues. It's why she accepted the VP position. She knows that it's likely that within a year of assuming the VP, she would then be president - without actually having to work at it. Shrewd. And now back to regularly scheduled programming. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/OrionWorks
Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil
Except that I had a friend who developed gout on the Atkins diet. Terry On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Hoyt A. Stearns Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dr. Robert Atkins makes a good case that humans evolved carnivorous, the teeth for example are designed for meat eating, and that the ability to eat carbohydrates ( veggies ) was a design afterthought and is not well developed, often resulting in diabetes, and requires insulin to process, which is a powerful cross-linking agent and somewhat toxic. His diet consists of zero carbohydrates (only meat, cheese, fish, eggs, cream etc. -- i.e. only animal products, no plant products ), and I must say it works quite well and leaves the blood sugar level at an optimum level at all times. You can eat all you want and not gain weight. -Original Message- From: leaking pen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:52 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Here comes $500 oil hypocritical also means applying opposite standards to oneself. She feels humans are natural herbivores, ...
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
Steven You may be underestimating the level of closet racism in the USA. But lest we deplete the ranks of vorticians even further - why not at least label this kind of political post as off-topic?
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
But Obama is a smoker whose parents died early in life. And Biden has suffered two brain aneurysms. If they both die, guess who's the prez? (But everyone knew her as Nancy.) Prediction: Considering Biden's latest performances, after the VP debate, he will pull out due to health reasons and then . . . guess what?! (Boy girl boy girl) Terry On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:55 PM, OrionWorks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since we are speculating on presidential outcomes I thought this might be a good opportunity to share the opinions of a blatantly unscientific and unverified source - particularly insofar as this source's take on the election. Please take the following predictions with a grain of salt. ;-) The election will not be close. The democrats including presidential VP candidates Obama Biden will win by an unprecedented landslide this November. The reason the polls have appeared so close is that the pollsters are favoring the polling of undecided voters, which greatly skews the actual numbers. A new Republican presidential administration only has somewhere around a 10% chance of winning the presidential office this November. However, (and this is the really frightening point, from my POV) if the Republicans do manage to pull it off and win the presidential office, the age of the candidate, combined with pressures of acting as president, combined with PTSD (a diagnosis which BTW was never officially diagnosed because it would have ended McCain's political career decades ago), combined with a past history of a virulent form of cancer which is still in his body, will likely conspire and finish McCain off within a year after assuming the office. On top of that McCain isn't all that enthusiastic about being president. He accepted the role because his party asked him to, and being the good soldier that he is he wishes to serve his country. Meanwhile, Palin has picked up on most of these cues. It's why she accepted the VP position. She knows that it's likely that within a year of assuming the VP, she would then be president - without actually having to work at it. Shrewd. And now back to regularly scheduled programming. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/OrionWorks
Re: [VO]: Sub-prime submarines
Unless, and this can be troubling ...we have already elected our last President. By executive order, the President can now put off the next election. Yes! the power is in place because executive orders now in place permit this if a national emergency is declared. The existing President can declare a national emergency just as he declared war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Richard Good analysis Steven. I hope you are right. Ed On Sep 23, 2008, at 7:55 PM, OrionWorks wrote: Since we are speculating on presidential outcomes I thought this might be a good opportunity to share the opinions of a blatantly unscientific and unverified source - particularly insofar as this source's take on the election. Please take the following predictions with a grain of salt. ;-) The election will not be close. The democrats including presidential VP candidates Obama Biden will win by an unprecedented landslide this November. The reason the polls have appeared so close is that the pollsters are favoring the polling of undecided voters, which greatly skews the actual numbers. A new Republican presidential administration only has somewhere around a 10% chance of winning the presidential office this November. However, (and this is the really frightening point, from my POV) if the Republicans do manage to pull it off and win the presidential office, the age of the candidate, combined with pressures of acting as president, combined with PTSD (a diagnosis which BTW was never officially diagnosed because it would have ended McCain's political career decades ago), combined with a past history of a virulent form of cancer which is still in his body, will likely conspire and finish McCain off within a year after assuming the office. On top of that McCain isn't all that enthusiastic about being president. He accepted the role because his party asked him to, and being the good soldier that he is he wishes to serve his country. Meanwhile, Palin has picked up on most of these cues. It's why she accepted the VP position. She knows that it's likely that within a year of assuming the VP, she would then be president - without actually having to work at it. Shrewd. And now back to regularly scheduled programming. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/OrionWorks No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.1/1686 - Release Date: 9/23/2008 7:38 AM
[Vo]:Subprime Submarines
Ed Storms opined: True, but small comfort. Nevertheless, this rigging would not have been effective if the election had not been so close. Now we have another close election, which demonstrates the total irrational thinking of at least 1/2 of the population. One of us has an incorrect world view, which could be termed a form of insanity. The question is, which half, eh? --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:Subprime Submarines
On Sep 23, 2008, at 8:42 PM, thomas malloy wrote: Ed Storms opined: True, but small comfort. Nevertheless, this rigging would not have been effective if the election had not been so close. Now we have another close election, which demonstrates the total irrational thinking of at least 1/2 of the population. One of us has an incorrect world view, which could be termed a form of insanity. The question is, which half, eh? Good point. So I ask, which half would support the same people who helped get us into the mess and expect they would get us out? I don't mean that people who support McCain are insane, but I question the sanity of people who expect the entire system put in place by the Republican party to change. This system will not and cannot be changed by McCain because he has too many relationships to, friends of, and commitments to the party. This is the nature of politics and is the reason why when each party eventually screws up it has to be replaced by the other party for any change to take place. This is the history of politics in this country. I suggest anyone who votes for McCain expecting a change is delusional. The only issue is whether a change to what Obama would do is any better. Apparently, according to what even the administration admits, it can't be any worse. Ed --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:The end of corn-ethanol
Jed wrote: Beene refers to ag waste. As I have pointed out numerous times, most of the energy in agricultural plants is in the seeds, and we eat them. All plants concentrate energy in the seeds, and plants bred for food concentrate even more (making them vulnerable to natural enemies and competing plants -- weeds). We do not leave much energy behind in ag waste. And as I have pointed out before, this simply can't be true, not even close, at least not for corn, which is what we are discussing here. It is certainly true there is a higher energy concentration in the seeds, but as far as the total energy available from oxidation of the whole plant, this couldn't possibly be right. I don't know if you've ever driven a road through a field in Iowa, when the corn is as high as an elephant's eye, but it's easy to see that the dry weight of the stalks, leaves, cobs, roots, etc. must be at least two orders of magnitude greater than that of the kernels. This is virtually all cellulosic and has an obviously lower energy concentration than the kernels, but the sheer mass of this ag waste surely would yield far more energy than the parts used for food. What's worse is that this potentially valuable resource is simply burned where it lies after the harvest. In any case, I'm for the end of corn-ethanol. M.
