Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity? - discs.gif
The BH being a relatively small object, and there being near-continuous collisions in the accretion disk, it seems to me that matter from the disk attracted to the BH and missing it can make their closest approach from basically all directions (in 3D, not just 2D), and therefore get slingshot-ejected in all directions. Hence my hypothesis that only that which is ejected fastest and closest to the polar direction, a small minority, does not fall back on the disk (escape depending only on the near field in the central area of the disk as Horace pointed out, not on the far field which we all agree is not perpendicular to the disk). Michel 2008/10/13 Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:19:12 -0800: Hi, [snip] My initial point was that Michel's explanation of jet formation was unlikely to be correct IMO, because there is little or no matter ejected at an angle between that of the disc and that of the jet. His explanation made use of the supposition that the gravitational field of the disc was perpendicular to it, and I was pointing out that that wasn't so. In short, I still don't see how the slingshot effect can provide an adequate explanation for the jets. The only comment I made about your theory, was to point out that the disc is not infinite. On Oct 12, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Sat, 11 Oct 2008 17:49:52 -0800: Hi, [snip] This is because the electric field about an infinite plane of uniform charge is given by: E = a rho/(2 * epsilon_0) so it is just a matter of applying the gravimagnetic isomorphism to obtain the result. In both formulations rho includes the sign of [snip] however in reality, the plane is not infinite. In fact if you look at real galactic jets, the jet usually extends much farther out into space than the diameter of the accretion disc. Sure, but that is probably irrelevant to the mechanism which creates the near light speed jets. Such a mechanism must occur very close to the black hole. Once the near light speed jets are formed there the effect of the BH or disk at great distance is likely moot, true? In any case, a model of jets which includes negative mass charge creation by black holes seems to me to make much more sense. BTW, congrats on the All Ordinaries being up 3% at the moment. A propitious sign for all markets Monday I hope. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Vo]:The Perepetia Generator
I haven't seen any mention of Thane Heins' Perepetia Generator yet, which really surprises me... Too much watchin' the ladies at the Dime Box Saloon and not payin attention to the fun stuff? HYPERLINK http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.3280http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.32 80 HYPERLINK http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeinshttp://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins I've been following this thread almost since it began, and it's really quite fascinating... They have been set up in the Univ of Ottowa for about a year, and now have a decent idea of what's happening... in Thane's own words below! Mark --- YOU HAVE A HV COIL WITH A VERY HIGH IMPEDANCE - SO VIRTUALLY NO CURRENT FLOWS - WHEN A ROTOR MAGNET APPROACHES IT, IT STORES ITS ENERGY IN THE ELECTROSTATIC FIELD LIKE A CAPACITOR. WHEN THE ROTOR MAGNET IS TOP DEAD CENTRE TO THE COIL - NEITHER APPROACHING NOR RECEDING - THE SHORTED CAPACITOR HV COIL DISCHARGES THROUGH THE COIL'S RESISTANCE AND CREATES A MAGNETIC FIELD (RESONANCE) - WHICH BY THIS TIME IS DELAYED AND IT PUSHES AWAY ON THE NOW RECEDING MAGNET AND SIMULTANEOUSLY ATTRACTS THE APPROACHING ONE [ thus causing acceleration]. FOR THE HV COIL TO WORK THE INDUCTANCE HAS TO BE RIGHT, COIL IMPEDANCE/RESISTANCE HAS TO BE RIGHT AND ROTOR FREQUENCY HAS TO BE RIGHT. AT ANY RATE WE HAVE BEEN PRODUCING UP TO 70 VOLTS @ 3500 RPM (MAX SPEED NEAR ZERO MOTOR TORQUE) PRODUCING REAL WATTS THROUGH A LOAD WITH NO DECELERATION AT ALL. WE HAVE MADE SOME OTHER DESIGN CHANGES WHICH IMPROVE THE OUTPUT POWER - WHICH I WILL POST AFTER OUR PATENTS ARE FILED. CHEERS Thane No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 10/11/2008 3:59 PM
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity? - discs.gif
Agreed. I think the misunderstanding arises from Robin talking about the field _inside_ the disk, and the two of us talking about the field _near_ the disk, i.e. that felt by matter ejected out of the disk thickness. Michel 2008/10/13 Horace Heffner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The field near a line charge is 1/r normal to the line. The field near a plane charge is uniform and normal to the plane. The closer you get to a finite line or plane segment the closer it approximates an infinite line or plane.
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity? - discs.gif
On Oct 13, 2008, at 2:02 AM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Mon, 13 Oct 2008 01:31:05 -0800: Hi, [snip] But it is so for a very thin disc, therefore a very thin disc can not exist in the vicinity of the black hole. A thin disc's field is not a 1/r^2 field, nor even a 1/r field, but rather a uniform field directed at the disc. Actually, it is precisely the opposite. The gravitational field of the disc is only perpendicular to the surface for an infinitely *thick* disk, because then the centre of gravity (halfway down the length of what has become a column), is at an angle which approaches 90 degrees to the plane of the disc. I disagree. You are ignoring the 1/r^2 nature of gravity or electrostatic charge. The field near a line charge is 1/r normal to the line. The field near a plane charge is uniform and normal to the plane. The closer you get to a finite line or plane segment the closer it approximates an infinite line or plane. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity? - discs.gif
In reply to Michel Jullian's message of Mon, 13 Oct 2008 08:35:02 +0200: Hi, [snip] The BH being a relatively small object, and there being near-continuous collisions in the accretion disk, it seems to me that matter from the disk attracted to the BH and missing it can make their closest approach from basically all directions (in 3D, not just 2D), and therefore get slingshot-ejected in all directions. Agreed. Hence my hypothesis that only that which is ejected fastest and closest to the polar direction, a small minority, does not fall back on the disk Why? What is special about the polar direction? I can agree with the fastest, but not with the direction. In fact if the slingshot effect were responsible, then I would expect to see most matter primarily ejected in the plane of the accretion disc, with progressively less ejected as the ejection angle with the disc increases, and the *least* ejected in the polar directions. Now you might easily argue that when matter is ejected within the disc, it usually gets thermalized (to borrow a term), and soon just once again becomes part of the disc. However this doesn't explain why the jets are so strongly collimated, and so narrow, and why they are *maximal* perpendicular to the disc. What might explain it is if the jets comprise fast charged particles and the whole thing is an incredibly powerful magnet, such that the particles are forced to circulate around the magnetic field lines (which I think Horace says in his theory, though I only skimmed it, so I could have misunderstood). BTW if this is true, then they should also be incredibly strong emitters of cyclotron radiation (though probably not coherent). If one thinks of the empty space around the jets as a huge invisible magnetic doughnut, with a very small hole, then the jets escape out through the holes. At least that's how I could envisage it happening. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Vo]:The Perepetia Generator
Mark Iverson wrote: I haven't seen any mention of Thane Heins' Perepetia Generator yet, which really surprises me... Too much watchin' the ladies at the Dime Box Saloon and not payin attention to the fun stuff? http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.3280 http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins I've been following this thread almost since it began, and it's really quite fascinating... They have been set up in the Univ of Ottowa for about a year, and now have a decent idea of what's happening... in Thane's own words below! /Mark / --- YOU HAVE A HV COIL WITH A VERY HIGH IMPEDANCE - SO VIRTUALLY NO CURRENT FLOWS - WHEN A ROTOR MAGNET APPROACHES IT, IT STORES ITS ENERGY IN THE ELECTROSTATIC FIELD LIKE A CAPACITOR. Sorry, electrostatic field between what and what? Static E field implies separation of charges somewhere, yes? Is something charged somewhere? The coil and magnet description doesn't make it sound like anything's charged anywhere, which makes it hard to understand where the static E field might be. WHEN THE ROTOR MAGNET IS TOP DEAD CENTRE TO THE COIL - NEITHER APPROACHING NOR RECEDING - THE SHORTED CAPACITOR HV COIL DISCHARGES THROUGH THE COIL'S RESISTANCE AND CREATES A MAGNETIC FIELD (RESONANCE) - WHICH BY THIS TIME IS DELAYED AND IT PUSHES AWAY ON THE NOW RECEDING MAGNET AND SIMULTANEOUSLY ATTRACTS THE APPROACHING ONE [ thus causing acceleration]. FOR THE HV COIL TO WORK THE INDUCTANCE HAS TO BE RIGHT, COIL IMPEDANCE/RESISTANCE HAS TO BE RIGHT AND ROTOR FREQUENCY HAS TO BE RIGHT. AT ANY RATE WE HAVE BEEN PRODUCING UP TO 70 VOLTS @ 3500 RPM (MAX SPEED NEAR ZERO MOTOR TORQUE) PRODUCING REAL WATTS THROUGH A LOAD WITH NO DECELERATION AT ALL. WE HAVE MADE SOME OTHER DESIGN CHANGES WHICH IMPROVE THE OUTPUT POWER - WHICH I WILL POST AFTER OUR PATENTS ARE FILED. CHEERS Thane // No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 10/11/2008 3:59 PM
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity? - discs.gif
In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Mon, 13 Oct 2008 01:31:05 -0800: Hi, [snip] But it is so for a very thin disc, therefore a very thin disc can not exist in the vicinity of the black hole. A thin disc's field is not a 1/r^2 field, nor even a 1/r field, but rather a uniform field directed at the disc. Actually, it is precisely the opposite. The gravitational field of the disc is only perpendicular to the surface for an infinitely *thick* disk, because then the centre of gravity (halfway down the length of what has become a column), is at an angle which approaches 90 degrees to the plane of the disc. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Vo]:Mallove murder suspect may be released soon
See: http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=1a320f13-2302-4605-bf74-a00de54dadac 'Enough,' Says Murder Suspect By Izaskun E. Larrañeta Online Reporter Gary McAvoy stood Thursday before New London Superior Court Judge Susan Handy and declared his innocence in the 2004 murder of physicist Eugene Mallove. He didn't do it and doesn't know who did, he told the judge. Enough is enough, said McAvoy. I'm charged with a murder I had nothing to do with. Its time to start looking someplace else. McAvoy and his co-defendent Joseph Reilly, may soon be free. The the state forensics lab mistakenly labeled a hair seized from a stolen car in New Britain as one that was collected from the victim's van. His attorney, William T. Koch Jr. said he would ask the court to dismiss the charges against McAvoy at his next court appearance Nov. 6. McAvoy said Thursday the Norwich police had erroneously arrested him. He claimed that blood and fingerprints belonging to another unknown person was found at the crime scene. He encouraged the police department to look for the person responsible for the murder. I just feel like I needed to say this, he said. After the court appearance McAvoy's mother, Marion Duffy said it was hard seeing her son behind bars for a crime she knows he didn't commit. If the Norwich police had did their job from the beginning, this would not have happened, said Duffy. It's been devastating for us. I feel sorry for the Mallove family too. I feel they are victims too. Chief State's Attorney Kevin T. Kane has to talk with McAvoy's attorney, Mallove's family in New Hampshire, and McAvoy's co-defendant's attorney, Jeremiah Donovan, Handy said, before any action can be taken on the case. McAvoy, 46, and Reilly, 42, are charged with murdering Mallove in Norwich on May 14, 2004. A physicist who championed cold fusion, Mallove, 56, of Pembroke, N.H., was found beaten to death in the driveway of his mother's house on Salem Turnpike. The cause of death was a crushed trachea. The same weekend, New Britain police arrested McAvoy and Reilly in a car stolen from Groton and found evidence of physical violence, including blood on their clothing. Norwich police charged the men with Mallove's murder about a year later. Both men adamantly denied being in Norwich that weekend, though they admitted they had been on a crack cocaine binge and participated in several burglaries. Both attorneys have maintained that the state's case is weak. The attorneys said none of the physical evidence established guilt, and the state had relied on jailhouse snitches to bring charges against their clients. DNA tests revealed that none of the blood on the men's clothing came from Mallove, and McAvoy told police that he and Reilly had a fight. Reilly also briefly appeared in court Thursday and his case was continue to Nov. 6. McAvoy and Reilly both are serving prison sentences for other crimes. McAvoy's maximum release date for a five-year sentence for third-degree larceny is August 2009, according to the Department of Correction. Reilly's release date for a 4½-year burglary conviction is February 2009.
Re: [Vo]:The Perepetia Generator
Has Lindemann changed his mind? He is not normally a strong skeptic of anything with even the slightest potential for gainfullness, even if it is not there yet -- yet, his and other well-considered - but totally negative comments - are on this page: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Perepiteia_Generator_by_Potential_Difference_Inc - Original Message From: Terry Blanton We pay attention: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg24356.html I skimmed the thread and didn't see anything exciting except the image regarding why beer stays colder at the bottom of the refrigerator. Terry On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 3:43 AM, Mark Iverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't seen any mention of Thane Heins' Perepetia Generator yet, which really surprises me... Too much watchin' the ladies at the Dime Box Saloon and not payin attention to the fun stuff? http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.3280 http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins I've been following this thread almost since it began, and it's really quite fascinating... They have been set up in the Univ of Ottowa for about a year, and now have a decent idea of what's happening... in Thane's own words below! Mark --- YOU HAVE A HV COIL WITH A VERY HIGH IMPEDANCE - SO VIRTUALLY NO CURRENT FLOWS - WHEN A ROTOR MAGNET APPROACHES IT, IT STORES ITS ENERGY IN THE ELECTROSTATIC FIELD LIKE A CAPACITOR. WHEN THE ROTOR MAGNET IS TOP DEAD CENTRE TO THE COIL - NEITHER APPROACHING NOR RECEDING - THE SHORTED CAPACITOR HV COIL DISCHARGES THROUGH THE COIL'S RESISTANCE AND CREATES A MAGNETIC FIELD (RESONANCE) - WHICH BY THIS TIME IS DELAYED AND IT PUSHES AWAY ON THE NOW RECEDING MAGNET AND SIMULTANEOUSLY ATTRACTS THE APPROACHING ONE [ thus causing acceleration]. FOR THE HV COIL TO WORK THE INDUCTANCE HAS TO BE RIGHT, COIL IMPEDANCE/RESISTANCE HAS TO BE RIGHT AND ROTOR FREQUENCY HAS TO BE RIGHT. AT ANY RATE WE HAVE BEEN PRODUCING UP TO 70 VOLTS @ 3500 RPM (MAX SPEED NEAR ZERO MOTOR TORQUE) PRODUCING REAL WATTS THROUGH A LOAD WITH NO DECELERATION AT ALL. WE HAVE MADE SOME OTHER DESIGN CHANGES WHICH IMPROVE THE OUTPUT POWER - WHICH I WILL POST AFTER OUR PATENTS ARE FILED. CHEERS Thane No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 10/11/2008 3:59 PM
Re: [Vo]:Black Holes from Newtonian Gravity? - discs.gif
On Oct 12, 2008, at 7:11 PM, Robin van Spaandonk wrote: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Sun, 12 Oct 2008 15:19:12 -0800: Hi, [snip] My initial point was that Michel's explanation of jet formation was unlikely to be correct IMO, because there is little or no matter ejected at an angle between that of the disc and that of the jet. His explanation made use of the supposition that the gravitational field of the disc was perpendicular to it, and I was pointing out that that wasn't so. But it is so for a very thin disc, therefore a very thin disc can not exist in the vicinity of the black hole. A thin disc's field is not a 1/r^2 field, nor even a 1/r field, but rather a uniform field directed at the disc. This gives rise to rather extended z axis excursions for even slight z axis velocities. The field of the disc itself is directed toward the x-y plane of the disc. As material moves toward the comparatively tiny black hole this should give rise to a bulge in the disc and a considerable percentage of material arriving at the disc with large z axis velocity components. However, material doesn't tend to arrive as particles or a gas. It tends to arrive in the form of stars or black holes. In the case of stars the accretion disc is very small and clearly very thin. We would thus not expect accretion into large black holes to be an explanation for jets that last millions of years, because hundreds of stars might be involved in that kind of time frame. Galactic centers are densely populated. In short, I still don't see how the slingshot effect can provide an adequate explanation for the jets. On this I think you and I are agreed. A very narrow jet would not be logical from the sligshot effect alone. The only comment I made about your theory, was to point out that the disc is not infinite. True, and it is not infinitesimally thin, either condition of which is required for a true uniform gravitational field in close proximity to the disk and disk center. However, even for an approximately thin disc, the central field is far from a 1/r^2 field, thus we see central galactic bulges. A large accretion disc will eventually impart a large angular momentum to a black hole. Black holes created by accretion of a binary star, should have an initially large angular momentum. Under any quantum theory of gravity, including mine, a fast spinning black hole should have a powerful gravimagnetic field. Such a field would indeed tend to focus a beam into jets, oriented along the spin axis of the black hole, regardless the axis of the accretion disk of the moment. This is because the gravimagnetic Lorentz force cancels, redirects, tangential motion, while leaving the z axis motion alone. The z axis velocity, as with all velocity components, I think is greatly increased however by compression and heating of the accreting disc, so maybe the initial z axis velocity component is irrelevant. Of further interest is the deduction in my theory that virtual particles carry no gravitational charge. Therefore, the black hole, essentially representing a single nucleus comprised of all neutrons, magnetically aligned, will project a powerful magnetic field beyond its Swartzchild radius, with a strength corresponding to its mass. This magnetic field will assist ionization of the incoming accretion disc, development of a powerful equatorial current of counter revolving electrons and nuclei, and the formation of polar jets, again through application of the Lorentz force. One interesting thing about this magnetic model is that microwaves should tend to be issued in the plane of the black hole spin more than in the jet direction. Here again, even under this assumption, the ejection velocity of material in the jets should not be very uniform, even though the jet would be very narrow. The only scenario I can see whereby the jets would take on a uniform velocity near c is the case where negative mass matter, dark matter coincidentally also having dark energy, originating within the black hole and interacting with the jet matter, accelerates the jet material to near light speed, and to an energy (velocity) spectrum corresponding to the mass of the black hole. This is the scenario which is consistent with all aspects of my theory, and which notably does not even require an accretion disk for formation of the jets. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:The Perepetia Generator
We pay attention: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg24356.html I skimmed the thread and didn't see anything exciting except the image regarding why beer stays colder at the bottom of the refrigerator. Terry On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 3:43 AM, Mark Iverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't seen any mention of Thane Heins' Perepetia Generator yet, which really surprises me... Too much watchin' the ladies at the Dime Box Saloon and not payin attention to the fun stuff? http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.3280 http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins I've been following this thread almost since it began, and it's really quite fascinating... They have been set up in the Univ of Ottowa for about a year, and now have a decent idea of what's happening... in Thane's own words below! Mark --- YOU HAVE A HV COIL WITH A VERY HIGH IMPEDANCE - SO VIRTUALLY NO CURRENT FLOWS - WHEN A ROTOR MAGNET APPROACHES IT, IT STORES ITS ENERGY IN THE ELECTROSTATIC FIELD LIKE A CAPACITOR. WHEN THE ROTOR MAGNET IS TOP DEAD CENTRE TO THE COIL - NEITHER APPROACHING NOR RECEDING - THE SHORTED CAPACITOR HV COIL DISCHARGES THROUGH THE COIL'S RESISTANCE AND CREATES A MAGNETIC FIELD (RESONANCE) - WHICH BY THIS TIME IS DELAYED AND IT PUSHES AWAY ON THE NOW RECEDING MAGNET AND SIMULTANEOUSLY ATTRACTS THE APPROACHING ONE [ thus causing acceleration]. FOR THE HV COIL TO WORK THE INDUCTANCE HAS TO BE RIGHT, COIL IMPEDANCE/RESISTANCE HAS TO BE RIGHT AND ROTOR FREQUENCY HAS TO BE RIGHT. AT ANY RATE WE HAVE BEEN PRODUCING UP TO 70 VOLTS @ 3500 RPM (MAX SPEED NEAR ZERO MOTOR TORQUE) PRODUCING REAL WATTS THROUGH A LOAD WITH NO DECELERATION AT ALL. WE HAVE MADE SOME OTHER DESIGN CHANGES WHICH IMPROVE THE OUTPUT POWER - WHICH I WILL POST AFTER OUR PATENTS ARE FILED. CHEERS Thane No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 10/11/2008 3:59 PM
