[Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYGSdUdONpw says Addendum to our video Steorn's Orbo Electromagnetic Interaction COP greater than 1 here's a transcript.. sorry if i made mistakes, i dont understand what aii is.. What we are going to do today is to address some of the concern made after the last experiment, which is to know whether or not a change in the inductance of the coils due to the magnets on the rotors, induced a changed, in the current, through the coils. this is a coil, and we are measuring its inductance with this LCR meter so i am connecting two kelvin probes to it. and as you can read, on the LCR meter, its inductance is 306millihenry - now i'm going to apply a strong magnetic field to the coil and as you can see, its inductance has dropped to, about fourty microhenry. -- next scene -- connecting the coil to a dc power supply. the yellow trace on the scope is the current, and the blue trace is the voltage across the coil, there's an offset on the current of 180 milliamps, so that we can zoom on the trace, and the scale is 5 milliamps per division, and the scale of the voltage is ten millivolts per division. and going to stop the oscilloscope, so we can read the values. there is 184milliamps and 14.25 millivolts across the coil. i'm applying a strong magnetic field to the coil, so i am changing the inductance of the coil. going to run… and stop the oscilloscope. now the values are 184.4milliamps and 14.26 millivolts. -- next scene -- to summarize: the inductance of the coil before the application of the permanent magnet, is 306 millihenry, and after the application of a permanent magnet its 40 microhenry the energy stored in the inductor is half ali (??) squared which before the application of the permanent magnet gives us 5.18 millijoules, and after the application of the permanent magnet, gives us 0.00068 millijoules, which is a variation of 99.9%. on the voltage and current, the voltage before the application of the PM is 14.25 millivolts, after application of PM it's 14.26 millivolts, which gives us a difference of 4.57 microvolts. on the current, the current before the application of PM is 184.1 milliamps, after application of PM it's 184.45 milliamps, gives us a difference of 355microamps. the variations in the voltage and current are insignificant and are within the rate of measurement accurancy and in no way can account for the significant change in the energy stored in the inductor.
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
And it is unmitigated bovine scat. Another obfuscation. The claim is that the inductance will change in a CHANGING MAGNETIC FIELD not a steady state field. The dynamic field of the approaching rotor magnet induces a charge in the windings which will show on the meter as a changing inductance. All they have shown is that the RESISTANCE of the coil does not change in the windings immersed in a constant magnetic field. They know damn good and well they are obfuscating. Several of us have tried to post comments on that video and none get approved. I am now convinced. It's a scam. Terry On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Esa Ruoho esaru...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYGSdUdONpw says Addendum to our video Steorn's Orbo Electromagnetic Interaction COP greater than 1 here's a transcript.. sorry if i made mistakes, i dont understand what aii is.. What we are going to do today is to address some of the concern made after the last experiment, which is to know whether or not a change in the inductance of the coils due to the magnets on the rotors, induced a changed, in the current, through the coils. this is a coil, and we are measuring its inductance with this LCR meter so i am connecting two kelvin probes to it. and as you can read, on the LCR meter, its inductance is 306millihenry - now i'm going to apply a strong magnetic field to the coil and as you can see, its inductance has dropped to, about fourty microhenry. -- next scene -- connecting the coil to a dc power supply. the yellow trace on the scope is the current, and the blue trace is the voltage across the coil, there's an offset on the current of 180 milliamps, so that we can zoom on the trace, and the scale is 5 milliamps per division, and the scale of the voltage is ten millivolts per division. and going to stop the oscilloscope, so we can read the values. there is 184milliamps and 14.25 millivolts across the coil. i'm applying a strong magnetic field to the coil, so i am changing the inductance of the coil. going to run… and stop the oscilloscope. now the values are 184.4milliamps and 14.26 millivolts. -- next scene -- to summarize: the inductance of the coil before the application of the permanent magnet, is 306 millihenry, and after the application of a permanent magnet its 40 microhenry the energy stored in the inductor is half ali (??) squared which before the application of the permanent magnet gives us 5.18 millijoules, and after the application of the permanent magnet, gives us 0.00068 millijoules, which is a variation of 99.9%. on the voltage and current, the voltage before the application of the PM is 14.25 millivolts, after application of PM it's 14.26 millivolts, which gives us a difference of 4.57 microvolts. on the current, the current before the application of PM is 184.1 milliamps, after application of PM it's 184.45 milliamps, gives us a difference of 355microamps. the variations in the voltage and current are insignificant and are within the rate of measurement accurancy and in no way can account for the significant change in the energy stored in the inductor.
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
Pretty much as expected but there are some issues with the patter. On 01/20/2010 11:27 AM, Esa Ruoho wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYGSdUdONpw says Addendum to our video Steorn's Orbo Electromagnetic Interaction COP greater than 1 here's a transcript.. sorry if i made mistakes, i dont understand what aii is.. What we are going to do today is to address some of the concern made after the last experiment, which is to know whether or not a change in the inductance of the coils due to the magnets on the rotors, induced a changed, in the current, through the coils. this is a coil, and we are measuring its inductance with this LCR meter so i am connecting two kelvin probes to it. and as you can read, on the LCR meter, its inductance is 306millihenry - now i'm going to apply a strong magnetic field to the coil and as you can see, its inductance has dropped to, about fourty microhenry. That's inductance with zero current flowing through the coil. With a ferro core the inductance isn't constant, as a function of current. None the less, we can draw an interesting conclusion: Lower inductance means current rise time will be faster, and integral(I*V) is going to be larger. In other words, energy going into the system will be LARGER when the coil is energized while there is a magnet near the coil than when it is energized while there is not. The difference is small -- but the mechanical output of this motor is small, too. Sean doesn't calculate or measure the difference in this post, so we don't know how much of the work done by the motor this difference would account for. -- next scene -- connecting the coil to a dc power supply. the yellow trace on the scope is the current, and the blue trace is the voltage across the coil, there's an offset on the current of 180 milliamps, so that we can zoom on the trace, and the scale is 5 milliamps per division, and the scale of the voltage is ten millivolts per division. and going to stop the oscilloscope, so we can read the values. there is 184milliamps and 14.25 millivolts across the coil. i'm applying a strong magnetic field to the coil, so i am changing the inductance of the coil. going to run… and stop the oscilloscope. now the values are 184.4milliamps and 14.26 millivolts. -- next scene -- to summarize: the inductance of the coil before the application of the permanent magnet, is 306 millihenry, and after the application of a permanent magnet its 40 microhenry the energy stored in the inductor is half ali (??) squared that's half Ell Eye squared which before the application of the permanent magnet gives us 5.18 millijoules, and after the application of the permanent magnet, gives us 0.00068 millijoules, which is a variation of 99.9%. Bogus calculation. The energy stored in the inductor is L*I^2/2 when, and only when, L is constant, because in that case we have 1) V = L*dI/dt -- def of an inductor 2) dI = (V/L)*dt -- rearranged 3) I = (V/L) * T -- assuming V fixed, which is only true at low I, before circuit resistance and R*I become significant 4) dE = (V*I)*dt -- Increment of added energy 5) dE = (V^2/L)*T*dt -- Substitute (3) into (4) 6) E = V^2/L * T^2/2 -- Integral of (5), assuming V and L constant Substitute (3) [T = I*L/V] into (6) and we obtain 7) E = L * I^2 / 2 That's a sloppy derivation of the equation Sean was quoting. However, it's got enough detail to see that it's only valid, as I said, if L is constant; otherwise we don't get equation (6) when we integrate equation (5). In this case L isn't constant, it varies with current (as the core saturates), and the calculation required is a lot messier. Consequently the energy input is a lot messier, and the whole exercise is harder than Sean has made out. To find the energy going in and coming out, he needs to a) Integrate the power using an integrating power meter or the integral function on a fast scope (that gets electrical power in but doesn't tell us anything about losses in the core). In particular, the power going into the system during the time interval during which the current *would* *be* increasing in the case where there is no magnet near the inductor needs to be measured for that case *and* for the case where there *is* a magnet near the inductor, in order to determine the difference in energy input with motor on versus motor off. b) Measure the heat generated in the core during coil turn-on and turn-off. That's so because the normal assumption that all the energy that goes into fighting the BEMF will come out again when the current is shut down isn't necessarily so when the core is being saturated. Unless those are done, and until the mechanical power out is measured or, at least, estimated, the power budget hasn't really been determined. on the voltage and current, the voltage before the application of the PM is 14.25 millivolts, after application of PM it's 14.26 millivolts, which gives
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
On 01/20/2010 12:18 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: And it is unmitigated bovine scat. Another obfuscation. The claim is that the inductance will change in a CHANGING MAGNETIC FIELD not a steady state field. The dynamic field of the approaching rotor magnet induces a charge in the windings which will show on the meter as a changing inductance. All they have shown is that the RESISTANCE of the coil does not change in the windings immersed in a constant magnetic field. Really? Perhaps I misread it. What I thought he did was saturate the core via a static applied external field, which reduces its permeability and consequently the measured inductance of the coil. So, he measured a genuine difference in inductance. And the windings are toroidal, so you won't get an induced charge on them from the approaching magnet, save as a consequence of core saturation and concomitant nonlinear behavior. As for the changing inductance in the changing external magnetic field, I don't think that happens while the power's on, because the core's being held in a saturated state by the field from the coil. All in all, the pieces which are apparently missing are still careful measurement (or calculation) of power in/out during coil turn on/turn off, and measurement of heat generated in the cores. But, come to think of it, I may be completely confused from A-Z about this. (Yes, it does occur to me, occasionally, that I might be wrong...) They know damn good and well they are obfuscating. Several of us have tried to post comments on that video and none get approved. I am now convinced. It's a scam. Terry On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Esa Ruoho esaru...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYGSdUdONpw says Addendum to our video Steorn's Orbo Electromagnetic Interaction COP greater than 1 here's a transcript.. sorry if i made mistakes, i dont understand what aii is.. What we are going to do today is to address some of the concern made after the last experiment, which is to know whether or not a change in the inductance of the coils due to the magnets on the rotors, induced a changed, in the current, through the coils. this is a coil, and we are measuring its inductance with this LCR meter so i am connecting two kelvin probes to it. and as you can read, on the LCR meter, its inductance is 306millihenry - now i'm going to apply a strong magnetic field to the coil and as you can see, its inductance has dropped to, about fourty microhenry. -- next scene -- connecting the coil to a dc power supply. the yellow trace on the scope is the current, and the blue trace is the voltage across the coil, there's an offset on the current of 180 milliamps, so that we can zoom on the trace, and the scale is 5 milliamps per division, and the scale of the voltage is ten millivolts per division. and going to stop the oscilloscope, so we can read the values. there is 184milliamps and 14.25 millivolts across the coil. i'm applying a strong magnetic field to the coil, so i am changing the inductance of the coil. going to run… and stop the oscilloscope. now the values are 184.4milliamps and 14.26 millivolts. -- next scene -- to summarize: the inductance of the coil before the application of the permanent magnet, is 306 millihenry, and after the application of a permanent magnet its 40 microhenry the energy stored in the inductor is half ali (??) squared which before the application of the permanent magnet gives us 5.18 millijoules, and after the application of the permanent magnet, gives us 0.00068 millijoules, which is a variation of 99.9%. on the voltage and current, the voltage before the application of the PM is 14.25 millivolts, after application of PM it's 14.26 millivolts, which gives us a difference of 4.57 microvolts. on the current, the current before the application of PM is 184.1 milliamps, after application of PM it's 184.45 milliamps, gives us a difference of 355microamps. the variations in the voltage and current are insignificant and are within the rate of measurement accurancy and in no way can account for the significant change in the energy stored in the inductor.
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
All the technical people are flabbergasted by the latest video. We are now convinced that it's all a joke. The Irish do love a punch line and that is just the phrase Sean has used. Unfortunately, many people we call the believers, are now suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Some could go off the deep end and be a threat to Steorn when they reveal the hoax, scam or whatever it is. Me, I'm done with it. Too much time wasted. T On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: On 01/20/2010 12:18 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: And it is unmitigated bovine scat. Another obfuscation. The claim is that the inductance will change in a CHANGING MAGNETIC FIELD not a steady state field. The dynamic field of the approaching rotor magnet induces a charge in the windings which will show on the meter as a changing inductance. All they have shown is that the RESISTANCE of the coil does not change in the windings immersed in a constant magnetic field. Really? Perhaps I misread it. What I thought he did was saturate the core via a static applied external field, which reduces its permeability and consequently the measured inductance of the coil. So, he measured a genuine difference in inductance. And the windings are toroidal, so you won't get an induced charge on them from the approaching magnet, save as a consequence of core saturation and concomitant nonlinear behavior. As for the changing inductance in the changing external magnetic field, I don't think that happens while the power's on, because the core's being held in a saturated state by the field from the coil. All in all, the pieces which are apparently missing are still careful measurement (or calculation) of power in/out during coil turn on/turn off, and measurement of heat generated in the cores. But, come to think of it, I may be completely confused from A-Z about this. (Yes, it does occur to me, occasionally, that I might be wrong...) They know damn good and well they are obfuscating. Several of us have tried to post comments on that video and none get approved. I am now convinced. It's a scam. Terry On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Esa Ruoho esaru...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYGSdUdONpw says Addendum to our video Steorn's Orbo Electromagnetic Interaction COP greater than 1 here's a transcript.. sorry if i made mistakes, i dont understand what aii is.. What we are going to do today is to address some of the concern made after the last experiment, which is to know whether or not a change in the inductance of the coils due to the magnets on the rotors, induced a changed, in the current, through the coils. this is a coil, and we are measuring its inductance with this LCR meter so i am connecting two kelvin probes to it. and as you can read, on the LCR meter, its inductance is 306millihenry - now i'm going to apply a strong magnetic field to the coil and as you can see, its inductance has dropped to, about fourty microhenry. -- next scene -- connecting the coil to a dc power supply. the yellow trace on the scope is the current, and the blue trace is the voltage across the coil, there's an offset on the current of 180 milliamps, so that we can zoom on the trace, and the scale is 5 milliamps per division, and the scale of the voltage is ten millivolts per division. and going to stop the oscilloscope, so we can read the values. there is 184milliamps and 14.25 millivolts across the coil. i'm applying a strong magnetic field to the coil, so i am changing the inductance of the coil. going to run… and stop the oscilloscope. now the values are 184.4milliamps and 14.26 millivolts. -- next scene -- to summarize: the inductance of the coil before the application of the permanent magnet, is 306 millihenry, and after the application of a permanent magnet its 40 microhenry the energy stored in the inductor is half ali (??) squared which before the application of the permanent magnet gives us 5.18 millijoules, and after the application of the permanent magnet, gives us 0.00068 millijoules, which is a variation of 99.9%. on the voltage and current, the voltage before the application of the PM is 14.25 millivolts, after application of PM it's 14.26 millivolts, which gives us a difference of 4.57 microvolts. on the current, the current before the application of PM is 184.1 milliamps, after application of PM it's 184.45 milliamps, gives us a difference of 355microamps. the variations in the voltage and current are insignificant and are within the rate of measurement accurancy and in no way can account for the significant change in the energy stored in the inductor.
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
From Terry: All the technical people are flabbergasted by the latest video. We are now convinced that it's all a joke. The Irish do love a punch line and that is just the phrase Sean has used. Unfortunately, many people we call the believers, are now suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Some could go off the deep end and be a threat to Steorn when they reveal the hoax, scam or whatever it is. Me, I'm done with it. Too much time wasted. What's the payoff? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Carl Tilly's investors sue, win $26M
On 01/20/2010 03:45 PM, William Beaty wrote: Remember the Tilley Electric Vehicle? (Delorean driving around a circular course) Jerry Decker just passed this around: (original requires subscription) http://www.keelynet.com/tilley26m.pdf http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2010/1/19/investors_win_26m_award_against_alleged_scam_artist http://www.keelynet.com/tilley/tilltrip.htm The Clem Device is going forward, see http://www.micro-combustion.com/ but the person raising investment money has been preoccupied by this court case because he also organized the funding for the Tilly Car. I had been under the impression Tilly was honest but mistaken. Unfortunately the fact that his workshop was supposedly powered by one of his devices, using a pile of 12v batteries in parallel feeding an inverter, makes that claim just a little hard to believe. If he'd been using the shop on a continuous basis it's hard to see how he could have just overlooked the fact that the batteries eventually ran down.
Re: [Vo]:Meteor Night 7 pm tonight, Santa Fe Complex, Santa Fe, Jan 19, Rich Murray with 10x12 screen on two extensive websites by Dennis Cox and by Tim McElvain: Rich Murray 2010.01.19
On Jan 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Rich Murray wrote: [snip] Hello Rich Murray, Since you never respond to any replies to your messages I take it your posts are unabashed SPAM for your rmforall blog? Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
On 01/20/2010 02:32 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: All the technical people are flabbergasted by the latest video. We are now convinced that it's all a joke. The Irish do love a punch line and that is just the phrase Sean has used. Unfortunately, many people we call the believers, are now suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Some could go off the deep end and be a threat to Steorn when they reveal the hoax, scam or whatever it is. Me, I'm done with it. Too much time wasted. As I said back in December, I find Steorn sickening. They prey on people who trust them, and in the process steal money, time, and trust from people who need it and could make good use of it. The world would be a far better place without their kind in it. HOWEVER, I find their motor rather fascinating, and I'd love to see an accurate energy balance analysis. We'll *never* get one from Sean, of course, who has no interest in clarifying things, IMNSHO, as I may already have asserted in various ways in previous posts. As I may also have said before, I think it's screamingly obvious that Sean and company are con artists and liars, and has been obvious for a long time, and if Mark Iverson finds that offensive, too bad. I only hope Mark hasn't given them any of his money, because he (Mark) is guilty of absolutely nothing but *trust* which is typically a good thing, not a bad thing. (And if anyone feels it's inappropriate to *warn* people when you see what is obviously a scam in operation, I'd love to hear a justification for that feeling!) Oh, and I don't believe there will ever be a revelation. The punch line will forever be delayed, and the results will remain ambiguous. Sean will continue to go along pretending he's shown things that he hasn't in an effort to keep the True Believers bringing in cash, and in an effort to prevent the folks he's burned from realizing it was a scam and forming a lynch mob.
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
from http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=62495page=5#Item_33 --- Steorn: Several people had stated that the existance of a change in inductance of the coil (due to the rotor magnets)would cause EMF - what the video demonstrates is that an externally caused change in inductance does not effect the current or voltage across the coil legendre: Ok - I can'tunderstand what lostcauses is saying most of the time either, but there is a very big difference between a change in inductance and a changing inductance. I'm not sure why you bothered with this experiment, as anyone who thinks that the status (or even the presence) of an inductor's core has some effect on itsDC resistance, has no place in this discussion. Steorn: Well mostly we did the experiment because Max felt that his accent was not getting a significant enough profile. But joking aside, it was an experiment worth doing. We do see the experimental sequence as being somewhat interactive, and we would like to keep this approach as much as is reasonable. --- harry - Original Message From: Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 4:55:41 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube On 01/20/2010 02:32 PM, Terry Blanton wrote: All the technical people are flabbergasted by the latest video. We are now convinced that it's all a joke. The Irish do love a punch line and that is just the phrase Sean has used. Unfortunately, many people we call the believers, are now suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. Some could go off the deep end and be a threat to Steorn when they reveal the hoax, scam or whatever it is.. Me, I'm done with it. Too much time wasted. As I said back in December, I find Steorn sickening. They prey on people who trust them, and in the process steal money, time, and trust from people who need it and could make good use of it. The world would be a far better place without their kind in it. HOWEVER, I find their motor rather fascinating, and I'd love to see an accurate energy balance analysis. We'll *never* get one from Sean, of course, who has no interest in clarifying things, IMNSHO, as I may already have asserted in various ways in previous posts. As I may also have said before, I think it's screamingly obvious that Sean and company are con artists and liars, and has been obvious for a long time, and if Mark Iverson finds that offensive, too bad. I only hope Mark hasn't given them any of his money, because he (Mark) is guilty of absolutely nothing but *trust* which is typically a good thing, not a bad thing. (And if anyone feels it's inappropriate to *warn* people when you see what is obviously a scam in operation, I'd love to hear a justification for that feeling!) Oh, and I don't believe there will ever be a revelation. The punch line will forever be delayed, and the results will remain ambiguous. Sean will continue to go along pretending he's shown things that he hasn't in an effort to keep the True Believers bringing in cash, and in an effort to prevent the folks he's burned from realizing it was a scam and forming a lynch mob. __ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
From Mr. Lawrence: ... Oh, and I don't believe there will ever be a revelation. The punch line will forever be delayed, and the results will remain ambiguous. Sean will continue to go along pretending he's shown things that he hasn't in an effort to keep the True Believers bringing in cash, and in an effort to prevent the folks he's burned from realizing it was a scam and forming a lynch mob. I'm still one of those naive individuals who is not completely, totally, absolutely, 100% convinced that Steorn is a con operation. I'm more inclined to speculate that Steorn may have simply fooled themselves - i.e.: wishful thinking believing. Nevertheless, I fully admit the possibility that I could be wrong, dead wrong. Regardless of my own waffling I continue to admire both Terry and Stephen's efforts as they have tried to clarify what many claim is an obfuscation of the facts from carefully controlled demonstrations on Steorn's behalf. Both Terry and Stephen have given me much to think about. At present, I suspect the main reason I'm unwilling to believe it's a con job is that I can't comprehend what Steorn would expect to get from masterminding such an operation. I seem to be getting the impression that both Terry and Stephen are also having difficulty in trying to figure out what Steorn's motivations might be as well. What's the pay off. Running a deliberate con just doesn't make any sense to me. It also raises my hackles in the Occam's Razor department. If what they are doing is knowingly diversionary, a deliberate con job, isn't that eventual grounds for criminal action against them? I'm reminded of Deep Throat's advice: Follow the money. And since we are trying to follow where the money might be coming from it seems to me that only the true believers who stand to be conned out of their money would be companies corporations who end up purchasing licenses in the hopes of building their own energizer bunny. For the most part, the admiring and true-believing public are not in a position of being fleeced. Call me naive, but I'm still under the impression that Steorn hopes that their spinny thing will eventually pan out. I'm more inclined to speculate that Stoern continues to envision becoming filthy rich from taking a tiny slice of all the profits from the licenses they hope to sell. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
[Vo]:no offense meant -- I try to offer good things but avoid controversy -- happen to be a pragmatic skeptic about evidence for overunity claims: Horace Heffner: Rich Murray 2010.01.20
no offense meant -- I try to offer good things but avoid controversy -- happen to be a pragmatic skeptic about evidence for overunity claims: Horace Heffner: Rich Murray 2010.01.20 Hi Horace, Since a week ago, after studying Holocene meteors for a year via Google Earth and Maps and on the ground in New Mexico and Kauai, I've been really pleased to find two different extensive websites by other independent investigators -- Tim McElvain and his wife joined a nice group of five for last night's sharing, so I got to show off my collection of pet rocks. I'll host at least two more sharings the next two Tuesdays. If you tell me what city you live near, I can look up some Holocene meteor craters for you within two hundred miles. Best regards. Rich Murray - Original Message - From: Horace Heffner To: Vortex-L Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Meteor Night 7 pm tonight, Santa Fe Complex, Santa Fe, Jan 19, Rich Murray with 10x12 screen on two extensive websites by Dennis Cox and by Tim McElvain: Rich Murray 2010.01.19 On Jan 19, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Rich Murray wrote: [snip] Hello Rich Murray, Since you never respond to any replies to your messages I take it your posts are unabashed SPAM for your rmforall blog? Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
Don't forget the Al Jazeera ad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcNwc-GhzIs 50 sec into it. Payoff? Figure it. T On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 6:24 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: From Mr. Lawrence: ... Oh, and I don't believe there will ever be a revelation. The punch line will forever be delayed, and the results will remain ambiguous. Sean will continue to go along pretending he's shown things that he hasn't in an effort to keep the True Believers bringing in cash, and in an effort to prevent the folks he's burned from realizing it was a scam and forming a lynch mob. I'm still one of those naive individuals who is not completely, totally, absolutely, 100% convinced that Steorn is a con operation. I'm more inclined to speculate that Steorn may have simply fooled themselves - i.e.: wishful thinking believing. Nevertheless, I fully admit the possibility that I could be wrong, dead wrong. Regardless of my own waffling I continue to admire both Terry and Stephen's efforts as they have tried to clarify what many claim is an obfuscation of the facts from carefully controlled demonstrations on Steorn's behalf. Both Terry and Stephen have given me much to think about. At present, I suspect the main reason I'm unwilling to believe it's a con job is that I can't comprehend what Steorn would expect to get from masterminding such an operation. I seem to be getting the impression that both Terry and Stephen are also having difficulty in trying to figure out what Steorn's motivations might be as well. What's the pay off. Running a deliberate con just doesn't make any sense to me. It also raises my hackles in the Occam's Razor department. If what they are doing is knowingly diversionary, a deliberate con job, isn't that eventual grounds for criminal action against them? I'm reminded of Deep Throat's advice: Follow the money. And since we are trying to follow where the money might be coming from it seems to me that only the true believers who stand to be conned out of their money would be companies corporations who end up purchasing licenses in the hopes of building their own energizer bunny. For the most part, the admiring and true-believing public are not in a position of being fleeced. Call me naive, but I'm still under the impression that Steorn hopes that their spinny thing will eventually pan out. I'm more inclined to speculate that Stoern continues to envision becoming filthy rich from taking a tiny slice of all the profits from the licenses they hope to sell. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Carl Tilly's investors sue, win $26M
Those damned DeLorean bearings are no better than Steorn's. :-) T On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 3:45 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: Remember the Tilley Electric Vehicle? (Delorean driving around a circular course) Jerry Decker just passed this around: (original requires subscription) http://www.keelynet.com/tilley26m.pdf http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2010/1/19/investors_win_26m_award_against_alleged_scam_artist http://www.keelynet.com/tilley/tilltrip.htm The Clem Device is going forward, see http://www.micro-combustion.com/ but the person raising investment money has been preoccupied by this court case because he also organized the funding for the Tilly Car. (( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
Personally, I'm sitting on the fence. Fortunately, it is a wide stone fence with flat top so my bum is not getting sore. ;-) Harry - Original Message From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 6:24:44 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube Call me naive, but I'm still under the impression that Steorn hopes that their spinny thing will eventually pan out. I'm more inclined to speculate that Stoern continues to envision becoming filthy rich from taking a tiny slice of all the profits from the licenses they hope to sell. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks __ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Harry Veeder hlvee...@yahoo.com wrote: Personally, I'm sitting on the fence. Fortunately, it is a wide stone fence with flat top so my bum is not getting sore. ;-) A narrow seat indeed! T
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
On 01/20/2010 08:51 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: - Original Message From: Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 1:04:33 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube As for the changing inductance in the changing external magnetic field, I don't think that happens while the power's on, because the core's being held in a saturated state by the field from the coil. Are you explaining how to electronically eliminate back EMF? No, not exactly. There's already no back EMF with a toroidal coil. (That's hard to show directly, but easy to show by conservation of momentum.) What I'm talking about is something a little different. When a strong external magnetic field acts on a ferromagnetic core, it may, if I understand this correctly, actually put the core in a saturated state, such that an additional B field which is aligned with the external field won't result in any additional magnetization of the core. If the B field of the core doesn't increase with further increase in the applied field, what that says is the *permeability* of the core has, in effect, dropped. The reduced permeability of the core means that the inductance of the coil will be lower when the core is in this state than when it's unsaturated. So, changing the external field will change the inductance -- IF the coil has no current flowing through it. But, the inductance of this coil is already not a fixed value; it varies with the current. When the current increases to the point where the core saturates, the inductance drops, because the permeability of the core material has (in effect) dropped. In the case where the core is saturated by the effect of the current in the coil, adding (or removing) an additional external field may have no effect on the core, which may very well remain saturated throughout the operation. In that case, the permeability won't change due to a change in the external field, and the inductance of the coil won't change. Clear? (As mud?) My grasp of saturation in magnets is pretty weak, unfortunately, and I may be exposing my ignorance here. Anybody with a better understanding of magnets want to correct this? Terry? Bill? Horace? Anybody? Harry __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
At 07:00 PM 1/20/2010, you wrote: Don't forget the Al Jazeera ad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcNwc-GhzIs 50 sec into it. Thanks for the reminder. They quote their own hand-picked jury's statement that there Orbo hasn't shown evidence of energy production. And immediately after that, all scientific truths began as blasphemies. It just says scientific jury, 2009 as I recall. The implication is that this was a knee-jerk response based on blasphemy against the gods of theory. That's deceptive. They are liars. But they were, in this, lying with the truth. That is still lying, it's the attempt to create an impression contrary to fact. It's highly skillful marketing. To an audience that includes some people who might toss in a few million dollars just for fun. Sure, if they sell certain kinds of investments, with lies, it would be fraud. But I assume they will be quite careful about that.
Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube
I think lying becomes fraud as soon as money is involved. Harry - Original Message From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thu, January 21, 2010 1:52:28 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:steorn addendum video posted on youtube At 06:24 PM 1/20/2010, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: At present, I suspect the main reason I'm unwilling to believe it's a con job is that I can't comprehend what Steorn would expect to get from masterminding such an operation. I seem to be getting the impression that both Terry and Stephen are also having difficulty in trying to figure out what Steorn's motivations might be as well. What's the pay off. Money. From selling disclosure and from selling equipment to investigate the phenomenon. Running a deliberate con just doesn't make any sense to me. It also raises my hackles in the Occam's Razor department. If what they are doing is knowingly diversionary, a deliberate con job, isn't that eventual grounds for criminal action against them? No, not if they have been careful. Look, you pay to go see a famous magician. He lies to you and diverts your attention, and you applaud. Is that grounds for criminal action? Marketers lie about their products all the time. Can you prosecute them for it? Depends, doesn't it? Puffery is not generally illegal. Fraud is. Lying isn't fraud except under narrow circumstances. I'm reminded of Deep Throat's advice: Follow the money. And since we are trying to follow where the money might be coming from it seems to me that only the true believers who stand to be conned out of their money would be companies corporations who end up purchasing licenses in the hopes of building their own energizer bunny. For the most part, the admiring and true-believing public are not in a position of being fleeced. Really? What's the disclosure price? It's within range for small pockets. Some corporations might toss in what is to them pocket change, just in case. All they have to do is keep it looking interesting enough. Call me naive, but I'm still under the impression that Steorn hopes that their spinny thing will eventually pan out. Sure. What does pan out mean. If it means they can walk with cash in their pockets, legally, does that require that the thing actually work. This is the true over-unity device they may have invented. How to make money legally with a device that doesn't work except to get some people really confused. I'm more inclined to speculate that Stoern continues to envision becoming filthy rich from taking a tiny slice of all the profits from the licenses they hope to sell. I doubt it at this point. Maybe at one point, then as it dawned on them that it wasn't going to, instead of wasting their momentum, they figured out how to sell what they have really found. __ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com
