[Vo]:large dense fractal meteor cluster in Alaska? also 21 pages re unusual 0.6 m rock in Palmer: Horace Heffner: Rich Murray 2010.01.24
large dense fractal meteor cluster in Alaska? also 21 pages re unusual 0.6 m rock in Palmer: Horace Heffner: Rich Murray 2010.01.24 http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.htm Sunday, January 24, 2010 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/37 _ Hello Vortex L and Horace Heffner, With regard to finding craters near Heffner's home in Palmer, Alaska, I quickly found this, which may fit the scenario proposed by Dennis Cox for multiple dense clusters of impacts from a huge cloud of ice comet fragments, dispersed in space before enterring the air at a low angle at about 20 km/sec, mostly from SE to NW, raining dense white-hot jets down to erode surfaces within seconds. about 20 km W of Lake Louise (11 km wide), about 170 km NE of Palmer, AK 62.302534 -146.989615 Curtis Lake, Matanuska-Susitna, AK 99588 1.6 km size A dense fractal cluster of craters, young enough not to have been eroded away, seemingly of the same age, and therefore likely from the same cause -- a burst in air of a meteor or ice comet into many fragments. I picked Curtis Lake for a close-up, since there are low highlands close to its west, which might have fragments and deposited high temperature formed surface coatings, that could prove an impact origin. Lake Louise may well be the major center. I am fascinated by your extensive details about a 0.6 m unusual rock. http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/RockPhotos/Rock.pdf 21 pages, many images Weighing of Rock on Foam Block Note - full resolution photo links are given eventually below. Summary of Data Find Location: Palmer, Alaska Find Date: February 25, 2009 Dry Weight: 56 kg Maximum Dimensions: 59 cm x 35 cm x 25 cm Sample Density: 2.9 - 3.0 gm/cm^3. Density initially determined by water displacement at 2.89 gm/cm^3 (for small crust bearing sample S3, 19.9 gm). A better density value of 3.0 gm/cm^3 was obtained by machining a 22 mm x 22.5 mm x 40 mm block (sample S11) which weighed 61.31 gm. The S11 block dimensions and edge orthogonality are not precise. Micrometer determined estimates for average dimensions are 40.2 mm x 23.1 mm x 22.1 mm, giving a volume of 20.5 cm^3, and density of 3 gm/cm^3. Palmer Rock 9/4/09 Page 1 10:27 AM I'll give your report an appreciative scrutiny! Thanks, Rich Murray Meteor Night 7 pm tonight, Santa Fe Complex, Santa Fe, Jan 19, Rich Murray with 10x12 screen on two extensive websites by Dennis Cox and by Tim McElvain: Rich Murray 2010.01.19 http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.htm Tuesday, January 19, 2010 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/36 _ - Original Message - From: Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net To: Vortex-L vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:no offense meant -- I try to offer good things but avoid controversy -- happen to be a pragmatic skeptic about evidence for overunity claims: Horace Heffner: Rich Murray 2010.01.20 On Jan 20, 2010, at 2:27 PM, Rich Murray wrote: Hi Horace, Since a week ago, after studying Holocene meteors for a year via Google Earth and Maps and on the ground in New Mexico and Kauai, I've been really pleased to find two different extensive websites by other independent investigators -- Tim McElvain and his wife joined a nice group of five for last night's sharing, so I got to show off my collection of pet rocks. I'll host at least two more sharings the next two Tuesdays. If you tell me what city you live near, I can look up some Holocene meteor craters for you within two hundred miles. Best regards. Rich Murray Nice offer! Thanks! I live in Palmer, Alaska. BTW, I've had a fairly recent small foray into the interesting world of meteorites. Here's documentation of my own experience with a probable meteor wrong: http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/RockPhotos/Rock.pdf There are some EDS analysis results and thin section photos toward the end. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ _
Re: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump?
I suggested it could be a heat pump about a week ago, after someone (you, I think) said that the orbo generated more heat than its electrical energy consumption. If it's a high COP (2) heat pump it can be quite useful for heating purposes, although totally useless for electrical power generation as we discussed a few years back (loop closed? thread). It being a heat pump would imply that the surrounding air gets cooler of course. It would also imply that if the device with its surrounding air is enclosed in a calorimeter it will not be found to be overunity! Michel 2010/1/24 Harry Veeder hlvee...@yahoo.com: Orbo discussed as a heat pump: http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=62574page=1#Item_0 Harry __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/
Re: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump?
On 01/24/2010 05:15 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: I suggested it could be a heat pump about a week ago, after someone (you, I think) said that the orbo generated more heat than its electrical energy consumption. If it's a high COP (2) heat pump it can be quite useful for heating purposes, although totally useless for electrical power generation as we discussed a few years back (loop closed? thread). It being a heat pump would imply that the surrounding air gets cooler of course. Not 'of course'. No mechanism has been proposed, nor can I imagine one, for making the surrounding air get cooler as a result of running an Orbo. There is no point in its cycle where it steals energy from the surrounding air. The claim from Sean is that it violates COE, *not* that it violates the second law. It's (supposedly) a PPM of the first kind. It would also imply that if the device with its surrounding air is enclosed in a calorimeter it will not be found to be overunity! Michel 2010/1/24 Harry Veeder hlvee...@yahoo.com: Orbo discussed as a heat pump: http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=62574page=1#Item_0 Harry __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/
RE: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump?
-Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence Not 'of course'. No mechanism has been proposed, nor can I imagine one, for making the surrounding air get cooler as a result of running an Orbo Michel is probably referring to some kind of Magnetocaloric effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetocaloric_effect
Re: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump?
Didn't even know this existed, thanks Jones for making me look more learned than I am! No, I was just saying that IF it is a heat pump, THEN of course the surrounding air should get cooler, I had no mechanism in mind, I don't even know what the Orbo is made of. Your magnetocaloric effect could be the explanation for what I know. Michel 2010/1/24 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net: -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence Not 'of course'. No mechanism has been proposed, nor can I imagine one, for making the surrounding air get cooler as a result of running an Orbo Michel is probably referring to some kind of Magnetocaloric effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetocaloric_effect
Re: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump?
My extreme idea was once that electrons rotate in two different 3-spaces and exchange negative energy and positive energy between the two. The work performed by the electron spin lowers the entropy in our 3 space and raises it in the negative free space. Maybe we should substitute 'imaginary' as in -1^1/2 for 'negative'. Maybe not.
Re: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump?
On 01/24/2010 12:19 PM, Jones Beene wrote: -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence Not 'of course'. No mechanism has been proposed, nor can I imagine one, for making the surrounding air get cooler as a result of running an Orbo Michel is probably referring to some kind of Magnetocaloric effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetocaloric_effect What's magical about the Orbo which would cause this to cool the surrounding air, when the same thing doesn't happen in any other coil which has been studied? As far as I can see from the Wiki page (or common sense), air doesn't get cooled by this mechanism. Quote: The magnetocaloric effect is an intrinsic property of a magnetic solid. Air is, of course, neither magnetic nor solid. If this were at work, you'd need to propose that something else, which was made of a suitable material -- maybe the cores -- was getting cold as a result. But that doesn't happen; the cores get warm, not cold. Sean attributes warming of the coils and cores to Joule heating, not pumping heat from the air. As I said, there's been no proposed mechanism which could cool the air around an Orbo -- and, please note, do it only for Orbos, not for normal electric motors.
RE: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump?
-Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence What's magical about the Orbo which would cause this to cool the surrounding air ... That question might assume that they are honest, which is far from certain. As for the claim of OU heating from an electric motor - which has been around for years - google Szabo EBM. Here is a video which makes a clearer claim for OU than anything coming from Steorn, yet AFIK they have not been successful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6MDHF39XmU A standard heat pump gives a much better conversion of electricity into heat. Jones
Re: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump?
On 01/24/2010 02:10 PM, Jones Beene wrote: -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence What's magical about the Orbo which would cause this to cool the surrounding air ... That question might assume that they are honest, which is far from certain. That was not my assumption. Rather, I assumed you (or Michel) had something in mind when you proposed that the Orbo might be cooling the air via a magnetocaloric effect. The question was, if you think that, what do you think it might be? As far as I can see there is nothing in Orbo which relates to magnetocaloric cooling and no mechanism at all by which it could be cooling the air. Yet you proposed nagnetocaloric cooling as relating to Orbo. Hence, the question. As for the claim of OU heating from an electric motor - which has been around for years - google Szabo EBM. Here is a video which makes a clearer claim for OU than anything coming from Steorn, yet AFIK they have not been successful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6MDHF39XmU A standard heat pump gives a much better conversion of electricity into heat. Jones
Re: [Vo]:OT: US Supreme Court lifts campaign finance limits
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:02:06 -0500: Hi, [snip] Making graft legal. Woe are we. [snip] On the bright side, at least now you will know who is paying off the pollies. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: US Supreme Court lifts campaign finance limits
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 3:58 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: On the bright side, at least now you will know who is paying off the pollies. ;) Today, the limits, tomorrow, the reporting requirements.
RE: [Vo]:Pycno-pockets?
--- On Fri, 1/22/10, Rick Monteverde r...@highsurf.com wrote: Of course there are a few right here in our own neighborhood that are decent candidates for deep bio activity. And aside from that one where we are to attempt no landing..., we wouldn't have to fight off those annoying blue people just to have a look. Besides the latest monolith creations on Europa, and the Na'vi, you have these guys to contend with somewhere beyond Jupiter... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37ybGrKCJFw At least they have those excellent sunshades. On the subject of alien life, I often wonder why these days it is becoming most common to portray nontechnological alien intelligence. N = n* x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x fL, so says Drake and Sagan. No one seems to like fc any more. To play devil's advocate, I could say, Spaceman General's Warning: fc may be hazardous to your fL. But then, so can asteroids. Alpha Centauri must have at least a few, and what with two other stars quite close, collisions might be frequent. Maybe the tree the Na'vi have is an asteroid defense system left behind by the guys who gave the Fithp (weren't they also from Alpha Centauri?) their 'thuktunthp' (translation, big damn rocks)? If there are not intelligent, technologically advanced communicative civilizations out there, the universe suddenly seems a far more lonely place. Years ago, I watched Sagan's 'COSMOS', and recall in episode 12 when he discussed the Drake equation, and how few there might be out there. The suggestion of N = 10, and his assertion that, if that is the case, there may be no one to talk to, sent a chill up my spine. The stars suddenly seemed very empty. But in many ways now, it seems like people crave this. There's certainly one special interest group that adores the idea of the noble savage from another star, but... that is what it is. Back in the good ol' days, the advancement of a civilization was roughly represented by the Kardashev scale. Apparently we're somewhat close to Type I. The Na'vi would be immeasureably close to Type 0.0, with maybe some allowance for basic energy expendature (fire, animal husbandry, using wind, etc.). Maybe the tree expends energy. By and large, it seems that the primitive, nontechnological aliens are noble savages, and really are Good People, while the technologically advanced starfaring aliens are just bent on blasting the White House and enslaving/killing/eating/etc. humanity for no good reason. They don't think, they don't care, they don't dream. They just kill, because all that steel makes them bad. --Kyle
RE: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump?
At 02:10 PM 1/24/2010, Jones Beene wrote: As for the claim of OU heating from an electric motor - which has been around for years - google Szabo EBM. Here is a video which makes a clearer claim for OU than anything coming from Steorn, yet AFIK they have not been successful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6MDHF39XmU Holy moly!!! This claims that once the rotation is set up, the thing generates power continuously, with no more input power. It's just as impossible as Orbo, but the claims are far more striking. The claims and models make Steorn look like a toy manufacturer, there is explicit claim of calorimetry, self-powered operation and output, etc. 15 ton generator, the EBM 720. But when was the film or video made? It seems old, maybe about 2000. This was a very ambitious and apparently well-funded effort. From http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Energy_By_Motion_%28EBM%29 Oct. 13, 2006 update -- NOT SELF-RUNNING YET: The company's present prototypes measure a small degree over unity, according to the measurement instruments and methods used. However, the extent of output exceeding input is not enough in the present prototypes to then cycle back to keep the unit running, as a self-runner. Any language expressing the self-running capability is extrapolative to a larger size, not yet built or proven, which allegedly has the necessary combination to keep the unit running and provide extra energy for use. (Source: Prof. Szabo, by phone to http://peswiki.com/index.php/Congress:Member:Sterling_D._AllanSterling D. Allan.) Ooops! Small degree of over unity. How small? http://www.gammamanager.com/blog.html last entry 2007. So, they have this 15 ton device shown in film from roughly 2000. In 2006, the claims of self-running are based on extrapolation. So, the $1.5 million dollar question (that's the price of the smallest commercial unit which they claim they can build to order, they just need a year and a half) is, what happens if they don't draw off energy for use, but just let the thing run self-powered? Is rotational velocity stable? Or how does it respond to small draws of energy? What is the evidence for over-unity? So many questions, and so may years in which to have answered them I certainly got the idea from the 2000 film that this was ready to go! What that says to me is that they are prepared to hype what they have. It just makes Steorn look pitiful by comparison.
Re: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump?
- Original Message From: Michel Jullian michelj...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sun, January 24, 2010 5:15:45 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:orbo is a heat pump? I suggested it could be a heat pump about a week ago, after someone (you, I think) yes said that the orbo generated more heat than its electrical energy consumption. If it's a high COP (2) heat pump it can be quite useful for heating purposes, although totally useless for electrical power generation as we discussed a few years back (loop closed? thread). It being a heat pump would imply that the surrounding air gets cooler of course. It would also imply that if the device with its surrounding air is enclosed in a calorimeter it will not be found to be overunity! Michel If orbo were extracting heat from the air then part of the orbo would become hotter than the surrounding air, but for that to happen wouldn't part of the orbo have to be cooler than the surrounding air? It would be analogous to running a household refrigerator with the door left wide open. Harry 2010/1/24 Harry Veeder : Orbo discussed as a heat pump: http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=62574page=1#Item_0 Harry __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ __ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
