[Vo]:Detection of exotic particles.

[Axil Axil]

The tracks produced by LENR reaction ash in photographic film after a long
cool down timeframe, are interesting. These particles seem to be correlated
and coherent as if they are members of a entangled BEC condensate. They
travel over great distances in clusters that both separate and then
coalesce again along their flight path. They are very massive and
energetic.

There is a school of thought in which Geneste belongs that believes that
these currently unknown exotic particles are responsible for the LENR
reaction. In order to try to come up with another test that might tell if a
LENR reaction was successfully established, immediately after an
experimental run has any replicator considered placing his ash on an
instant film for a 24 hour exposure to see if there is any of these
energetic and enigmatic products produced?

[Vo]:

[Axil Axil]

I did not recognize that black holes could be tachyons. Here is how:

The Inside Story: Quasilocal Tachyons and Black Holes

http://www.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-wrap/getdoc/slac-pub-11616.pdf

The SPP could be well be a tachyon.

[Vo]:SPPs as tachyons

[Axil Axil]

I did not recognize that black holes could be tachyons. Well, you learn
something new everyday. Here is how:

The Inside Story: Quasilocal Tachyons and Black Holes

http://www.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-wrap/getdoc/slac-pub-11616.pdf

The SPP could be well be a tachyon.

RE: [Vo]:MMDD .... Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration

[Stephen Cooke]

You might be right Axil, These days I certainly tend to think there is some 
kind of collective disruptive or resonant behaviour that is exciting the nuclei 
or causing them to act this way. I acknowledge your good arguments and evidence 
for the formation of SPP's in these devices. It also seems some kind of trigger 
for collective behaviour is required. 
I think its interesting to look at the possibilities of low energy virtual 
resonant meson exchange rather than nucleon exchange. If it can occur.
I'm certainly no expert on this but I suppose if the resonance increases slowly 
(but still fast in atomic scales) the first real single particles to be 
generated would be pions? unless particle pairs involving electrons, positrons, 
muons and associated neutrinos are be generated before. Is this correct 
thinking?
pion0 has slightly less mass than pion+ or pion- and has much shorter half life 
so it is curious if we do not see gamma from pion0 decay. Could it be that the 
longer half life of virtual Pion+ and Pion- means in theory are more likely to 
tunnel? Or electrons, muons and pion0 are suppressed somehow so that pion+ and 
pion- are the first to be generated.
I suppose generating a real meson would have higher energy consequences, but 
this could lead to the observed muons. 
I'm imagining if the energy is a "slowly" building resonant effect maybe as 
soon as a pion is manifested if it is a pion- perhaps its wave function 
occupies the S orbital to form Pionium until it interacts with the nucleus or 
decays via muon decay. If it is a pion+ perhaps it is ejected with sufficient 
energy to interact with another Deuterium nucleus to form a diproton that 
decays to 2 high energy protons, or it decays to a muon of characteristic 
energy that is later detected.
I suppose a real nuclear physicist will correct me on a lot of my assumptions.
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:16:37 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:MMDD  Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration
From: janap...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com

I believe that what you imagine is what is happening in one of the many cases 
involving SPP extreme magnetic projections and entanglement,

Re: [Vo]:MMDD .... Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration

[Eric Walker]

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 2:21 AM, Stephen Cooke 
wrote:

If any was produced we would need to balance this against those the energy
> required for pion production.
>

The amount of energy needed to create a free pion is large; the rest mass
for a pion is ~ 135 MeV.  Consider that the largest amount of energy
typically discussed in the context of cold fusion up to now has been ~ 24
MeV.  Holmlid's observations are likely to go back to something other than
the generation of pions.

Eric

Re: [Vo]:MMDD .... Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration

[Axil Axil]

I believe that what you imagine is what is happening in one of the many
cases involving SPP extreme magnetic projections and entanglement,

Re: [Vo]:MMDD .... Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration

[Stephen Cooke]

In case it is interesting I have found a couple of interesting papers on pionic 
deuterium.

http://www.slac.stanford.edu/econf/C070910/PDF/290.pdf

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Joao_Veloso2/publication/226690552_Pionic_Deuterium/links/0fcfd509900d147bc600.pdf?inViewer=true=true=true=publication_detail


The papers are quite technical and apparently Pionic Deuterium has been studied 
quite extensively. There are some interesting points about pion production and 
absorption with nuclei and nucleon pairs, ground state s orbital interaction 
with the nucleus, x-Ray production and experimental set up. The second paper is 
much more detailed.

It seems to me if we see effects in the experiments described in these papers, 
if pions are indeed generated then we might even be more likely to see 
something in ultra dense material.

I wonder what kinds of energies would be yielded in these kind of reactions. If 
any was produced we would need to balance this against those the energy 
required for pion production. But perhaps the excess energy for pion production 
comes from muon catalysed fusion and / or external forces and resonance effects.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 19 Oct 2015, at 22:18, Stephen Cooke  wrote:
> 
> I guess there is a chance that they saw X-ray spectra from Pionic Deuterium 
> as well as inferring from muons of specific energy. It will be interesting to 
> see what he says on Thursday, I hope someone can ask these kind of questions. 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 19 okt. 2015, at 18:18, Jones Beene  wrote:
>> 
>> The lifetime of pions is a factor of 100 times shorter than the muon, which 
>> is itself short.
>>  
>> How pions can be detected at all, with so short a lifetime is a question 
>> worth asking.
>>  
>> There is a good possibility that they are inferred – from finding muons, 
>> which can be detected. Hopefully, Ólafsson will address this issue of 
>> detection on Thursday.
>>  
>>  
>> From: Stephen Cooke
>>  
>> … Is It possible that the nuclei are sufficiently close that those pions or 
>> virtual ones get generated in association with one nucleus and absorbed by 
>> another either directly or by tunneling at lower energy?
>> 
>>  

Re: [Vo]: Translation of Russian paper on Ni-H experiment

[Teslaalset]

I wonder whether they took the exothermic effects of hydrogen
absorption into account.

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> What I would like to emphasize is that the first study described here was
> an independent, stand-alone observation of excess heat from the Ni-H
> system. There are not many studies like that. All the ones I know of were
> inspired by or linked to Mills, Piantelli or Rossi. Such results might be
> colored by wishful thinking. Or at least by the knowledge that someone else
> claimed heat from Ni-H, and the hope that the claim can be replicated. In
> contrast, this result apparently came as a surprise to the researchers.
> That is a good thing! It is promising.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]: Translation of Russian paper on Ni-H experiment

[Jed Rothwell]

H Veeder  wrote:

It seems to me that based on the given data it is possible to interpret the
> temperature difference between the empty vessel and the vessel with "fuel"
> ( their quotation marks) as resulting from either endothermic activity or
> exothermic activity in the vessel with "fuel".
>

How can you have an endothermic reaction with an empty vessel?


Teslaalset  wrote:


> I wonder whether they took the exothermic effects of hydrogen
> absorption into account.
>

Hydrogen absorption is endothermic. Adsorption is exothermic but I believe
overall the process is endothermic. See:

http://eprints.lib.hokudai.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2115/24660/1/5(2)_P71-86.pdf

- Jed

[Vo]:unsubscribe

[Mark Goldes]

Mark Goldes
Chairman, CEO, AESOP Energy LLC

707 861-9070

AESOP Institute website: www.aesopinstitute.org

Re: [Vo]: Translation of Russian paper on Ni-H experiment

[H Veeder]

It seems to me that based on the given data it is possible to interpret the
temperature difference between the empty vessel and the vessel with "fuel"
( their quotation marks) as resulting from either endothermic activity or
exothermic activity in the vessel with "fuel".

Harry

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

> This morning I translated the recent Russian paper, "The Question of
> Excess Heat in Nickel-Hydrogen".  If you are interested, you can get a copy
> of the English version from LENR Forum or from my Google drive at:
>
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Pc25a4cOM2ZzVib0JtOWtyaXc
>
> Bob Higgins
>

Re: [Vo]: Translation of Russian paper on Ni-H experiment

[H Veeder]

On Oct 20, 2015 1:41 PM, "Jed Rothwell"  wrote:
>
> H Veeder  wrote:
>
>> It seems to me that based on the given data it is possible to interpret
the temperature difference between the empty vessel and the vessel with
"fuel" ( their quotation marks) as resulting from either endothermic
activity or exothermic activity in the vessel with "fuel".
>
>
> How can you have an endothermic reaction with an empty vessel?
>

I didn't suggest that. The paper only gives the relative temperature
difference between the two vessels. We are not provided with absolute
temperature measurements of each vessel.  Are we to assume that absolute
temperature measurements were made so the fueled vessel was known to be
hotter?

Harry

[Vo]:UNSUBSCRIBE

[Mark Goldes]

Mark Goldes
Chairman, CEO, AESOP Energy LLC

707 861-9070

AESOP Institute website: www.aesopinstitute.org

Re: [Vo]: Translation of Russian paper on Ni-H experiment

[Teslaalset]

Jed, there is contraditional info around, see:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360319914002389
(bottom of the page)



On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> H Veeder  wrote:
>
> It seems to me that based on the given data it is possible to interpret
>> the temperature difference between the empty vessel and the vessel with
>> "fuel" ( their quotation marks) as resulting from either endothermic
>> activity or exothermic activity in the vessel with "fuel".
>>
>
> How can you have an endothermic reaction with an empty vessel?
>
>
> Teslaalset  wrote:
>
>
>> I wonder whether they took the exothermic effects of hydrogen
>> absorption into account.
>>
>
> Hydrogen absorption is endothermic. Adsorption is exothermic but I believe
> overall the process is endothermic. See:
>
>
> http://eprints.lib.hokudai.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2115/24660/1/5(2)_P71-86.pdf
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:MMDD .... Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration

[Axil Axil]

These SPP are inherently coherent. This means that they all live in a state
of bose einstein condensation(BEC). When a nuclear reaction occurs within
this BEC, the nature of the nuclear reaction changes. Everything is
entangled. Super absorption and super-radiation comes into play. The rules
that work for neutron based reactions no longer apply.

The decay energies from meson decay go right back into storage within the
SPP.

Using neutron based thinking to understand how LENR reactions work is a
mistake. All these LENR reactions need to be understood in their own rite.
This study will be one of the major LENR research efforts during this
century. There will be a lot of work required to get through all this LENR
research involing the ins and outs of the LENR nuclear reaction..

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Stephen Cooke 
wrote:

> One negative point to this idea I suppose is that if a pion is absorbed by
> a nucleon pair in a nucleus the whole mass energy in the pion will be
> released so if even a stationary pion was absorbed the final 2 nucleons in
> the pair will be ejected with kinetic energy about 63 MeV each. I suppose
> it is difficult to see how these nucleons would not generate gamma or
> neutrons on interaction with other nuclei.
>
> Also on the negative side: If a pion is implicated and needs to be
> generated within a nucleus, i suppose if this is not from a high energy
> collision it would need to be created in a nucleus with higher total
> binding energy than the pion mass energy. This would be a medium weight
> nucleus so if we assume 8 MeV binding energy per nucleon it would probably
> require a nucleus heavier than Oxygen at least.
>
> --
> From: stephen_coo...@hotmail.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: RE: [Vo]:MMDD  Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:16:09 +0200
>
>
> 'The amount of energy needed to create a free pion is large; the rest mass
> for a pion is ~ 135 MeV'
>
> Very true this is also true for the muon which has a rest mass for a pion
> is ~ 106 MeV.
>
> I'm not sure if muons can be generated without pions? muon pair production
> would require even more energy.
>
> The energy is also quite high compared to the binding energy of light
> Nuclei.
>
> If I am right I think the laser produces much less thermal energy too.
>
> It is difficult to imagine how either muons (or pions) can form with out
> some kind of collective resonance effect or an additional high MeV energy
> source such as sufficient energy from a high energy fusion event or more
> even strangely a nucleon decay to mesons.
>
> It will be interesting what Holmlids observations and explanations say,
> I'm quite curious as you say he could well have another explanation.
>
>
> --
> From: eric.wal...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:47:08 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:MMDD  Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 2:21 AM, Stephen Cooke  > wrote:
>
> If any was produced we would need to balance this against those the energy
> required for pion production.
>
>
> The amount of energy needed to create a free pion is large; the rest mass
> for a pion is ~ 135 MeV.  Consider that the largest amount of energy
> typically discussed in the context of cold fusion up to now has been ~ 24
> MeV.  Holmlid's observations are likely to go back to something other than
> the generation of pions.
>
> Eric
>
>

Re: [Vo]: Translation of Russian paper on Ni-H experiment

[David Roberson]

You are making a valid point.  My bet is on the exothermic activity within the 
fueled vessel since the other one should behave like any other random piece of 
metal.  The real question is whether or not enough time was spent generating 
heat to eliminate the possible chemical reactions.  I suspect not.  And, 
careful calibration must be established to ensure that a real difference in 
temperature exists.

I approve of the technique of using an oven to establish the operating core 
temperature instead of heating windings with electricity.  Both methods should 
result in the generation of core heat, but using the oven appears to be a 
significantly better way to balance the operational temperature between the two 
vessels for comparison.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: H Veeder 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Tue, Oct 20, 2015 11:26 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]: Translation of Russian paper on Ni-H experiment



It seems to me that based on the given data it is possible to interpret the 
temperature difference between the empty vessel and the vessel with "fuel" ( 
their quotation marks) as resulting from either endothermic activity or 
exothermic activity in the vessel with "fuel".


Harry



On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Bob Higgins  wrote:

This morning I translated the recent Russian paper, "The Question of Excess 
Heat in Nickel-Hydrogen".  If you are interested, you can get a copy of the 
English version from LENR Forum or from my Google drive at:


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Pc25a4cOM2ZzVib0JtOWtyaXc


Bob Higgins

RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Roarty, Francis X]

Axil, Sounds very similar to creating the pyrophoric catalyst Rayney nickel 
where the lower melting Al is leached out of the NiAl alloy leaving nano sized 
pits. I think Mills likewise avoids reactive gases when using Rayney Ni such 
that poisoning is avoided,  H2 covalent bonding is available but reverses with 
heat and the more desirable Rydberg effect becomes available to modify the H1 
before re- associating into Rydberg molecules of varying fractional values…. 
IMHO :_)
Fran
From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 12:10 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

The fuel preperation process that Rossi uses as exposed in apendex 3 of the 
Lugano report shows that the surface of the 100 micron fuel particle is 
impregnated with carbon being most likely in the form of nanosized graphite 
particles. THese carbon particles are most likely melted into the surface of 
the nickel at high temperatures because the 100 micron particle gets hot enough 
to sinter many 5 micron particles together as a large aggragate.

Then pure lithium is added to cover the entire surface of the 100 micron 
particle. This converts the graphite to nanosized particles of lithium carbide. 
The LENR reaction does not occur in this preprocessing step because the 
sintering is done without hydrogen present. Rossi must uses a noble gas like 
argon or even better helium to sinter the 100 micron particle.

When the reactor is started with hydrogen, the lithium carbide gradually 
evaperates and a goodly amount of rydberg matter is produced. After a time all 
the lithium carbide is removed from the surface of the nickel particle leaving 
nano sized cavities on the surface of the nickel particles.

The surface of the ash from Lugano show no carbon remaining in the ash sample 
of the 100 micron nickel particle.

These nano cavities play a role in the continuing production of hydrogen 
rydberg matter as time goes on in the Rossi reaction.



On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Roarty, Francis X 
> wrote:
Axil, does the hydrogen have to desorb from the surface of the Ni? I liked 
everything you were saying to that point but still think the surface and 
lattice are needed to form inverse Rydberg hydrogen. I agree lack of oxygen or 
any reactive gases is key so the path of least resistance, covalent bond, is 
removed and that hydrogen could desorb from carbon at elevated temperature but 
think this added pressure pushes the hydrogen down into the Ni surface and NAE 
to form fractional hydrogen [IRH] - energy states lower than ground state 
afforded by vacuum suppression based on Casimir geometry.
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 4:52 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

According to Holmlid, Hydrogen Rydberg matter is formed when there is no 
reactive elements available to form covalent bonds. Hydrogen must interact with 
itself. The hydrogen must desorb from a material that does not combine with 
hydrogen. Carbon at elevated temperatures does not interact with hydrogen.

When Rossi preprocesses his fuel, he sets up a condition were lithium and 
hydrogen desorb from the surface of his nickel particles at high temperatures. 
The same is true for Holmlid, who uses iridium as a substrate to store Hydrogen 
Rydberg matter produced by the iron catalyst until Holmlid hits the iridium 
with a laser shot.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Eric Walker 
> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Axil Axil 
> wrote:

It is well known that the hydrides of group 14 elements produce Rydberg matter 
because of their covalent bond structure(4 bonds). These element includes 
include silicon and carbon.

Another interesting tidbit -- both silicon and carbon have trace amounts of 
beta emitters:

e- + 32Si => 2*e- + 2*neutrino + 32S + 1938 keV
e- + 32Si => e- + neutrino + 32P + 227 keV
e- + 14C => e- + neutrino + 14N + 156 keV

A covalent bond could change the amount of time that the orbital electrons 
spend in the nuclear volume, potentially altering the beta decay rate.  Because 
there are only trace amounts of these isotopes, I am pessimistic much heat 
could be derived from them.
Eric

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Roarty, Francis X]

Axil, does the hydrogen have to desorb from the surface of the Ni? I liked 
everything you were saying to that point but still think the surface and 
lattice are needed to form inverse Rydberg hydrogen. I agree lack of oxygen or 
any reactive gases is key so the path of least resistance, covalent bond, is 
removed and that hydrogen could desorb from carbon at elevated temperature but 
think this added pressure pushes the hydrogen down into the Ni surface and NAE 
to form fractional hydrogen [IRH] - energy states lower than ground state 
afforded by vacuum suppression based on Casimir geometry.
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 4:52 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

According to Holmlid, Hydrogen Rydberg matter is formed when there is no 
reactive elements available to form covalent bonds. Hydrogen must interact with 
itself. The hydrogen must desorb from a material that does not combine with 
hydrogen. Carbon at elevated temperatures does not interact with hydrogen.

When Rossi preprocesses his fuel, he sets up a condition were lithium and 
hydrogen desorb from the surface of his nickel particles at high temperatures. 
The same is true for Holmlid, who uses iridium as a substrate to store Hydrogen 
Rydberg matter produced by the iron catalyst until Holmlid hits the iridium 
with a laser shot.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Eric Walker 
> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Axil Axil 
> wrote:

It is well known that the hydrides of group 14 elements produce Rydberg matter 
because of their covalent bond structure(4 bonds). These element includes 
include silicon and carbon.

Another interesting tidbit -- both silicon and carbon have trace amounts of 
beta emitters:

e- + 32Si => 2*e- + 2*neutrino + 32S + 1938 keV
e- + 32Si => e- + neutrino + 32P + 227 keV
e- + 14C => e- + neutrino + 14N + 156 keV

A covalent bond could change the amount of time that the orbital electrons 
spend in the nuclear volume, potentially altering the beta decay rate.  Because 
there are only trace amounts of these isotopes, I am pessimistic much heat 
could be derived from them.
Eric

Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing

[Axil Axil]

The fuel preperation process that Rossi uses as exposed in apendex 3 of the
Lugano report shows that the surface of the 100 micron fuel particle is
impregnated with carbon being most likely in the form of nanosized graphite
particles. THese carbon particles are most likely melted into the surface
of the nickel at high temperatures because the 100 micron particle gets hot
enough to sinter many 5 micron particles together as a large aggragate.

Then pure lithium is added to cover the entire surface of the 100 micron
particle. This converts the graphite to nanosized particles of lithium
carbide. The LENR reaction does not occur in this preprocessing step
because the sintering is done without hydrogen present. Rossi must uses a
noble gas like argon or even better helium to sinter the 100 micron
particle.

When the reactor is started with hydrogen, the lithium carbide gradually
evaperates and a goodly amount of rydberg matter is produced. After a time
all the lithium carbide is removed from the surface of the nickel particle
leaving nano sized cavities on the surface of the nickel particles.

The surface of the ash from Lugano show no carbon remaining in the ash
sample of the 100 micron nickel particle.

These nano cavities play a role in the continuing production of hydrogen
rydberg matter as time goes on in the Rossi reaction.



On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Roarty, Francis X <
francis.x.roa...@lmco.com> wrote:

> Axil, does the hydrogen have to desorb from the surface of the Ni? I liked
> everything you were saying to that point but still think the surface and
> lattice are needed to form inverse Rydberg hydrogen. I agree lack of oxygen
> or any reactive gases is key so the path of least resistance, covalent
> bond, is removed and that hydrogen could desorb from carbon at elevated
> temperature but think this added pressure pushes the hydrogen down into the
> Ni surface and NAE to form fractional hydrogen [IRH] - energy states lower
> than ground state afforded by vacuum suppression based on Casimir geometry.
>
> Fran
>
>
>
> *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, October 19, 2015 4:52 PM
> *To:* vortex-l
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Ni+LAH systems not performing
>
>
>
> According to Holmlid, Hydrogen Rydberg matter is formed when there is no
> reactive elements available to form covalent bonds. Hydrogen must interact
> with itself. The hydrogen must desorb from a material that does not combine
> with hydrogen. Carbon at elevated temperatures does not interact with
> hydrogen.
>
>
>
> When Rossi preprocesses his fuel, he sets up a condition were lithium and
> hydrogen desorb from the surface of his nickel particles at high
> temperatures. The same is true for Holmlid, who uses iridium as a substrate
> to store Hydrogen Rydberg matter produced by the iron catalyst until
> Holmlid hits the iridium with a laser shot.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Eric Walker 
> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>
>
> It is well known that the hydrides of group 14 elements produce Rydberg
> matter because of their covalent bond structure(4 bonds). These element
> includes include silicon and carbon.
>
>
>
> Another interesting tidbit -- both silicon and carbon have trace amounts
> of beta emitters:
>
>
> e- + 32Si => 2*e- + 2*neutrino + 32S + 1938 keV
> e- + 32Si => e- + neutrino + 32P + 227 keV
> e- + 14C => e- + neutrino + 14N + 156 keV
>
> A covalent bond could change the amount of time that the orbital electrons
> spend in the nuclear volume, potentially altering the beta decay rate.
> Because there are only trace amounts of these isotopes, I am pessimistic
> much heat could be derived from them.
>
> Eric
>
>
>

[Vo]:Info plus introducing the idea of research-friendly LENR systems

[Peter Gluck]

See please
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2015/10/oct-20-2015we-need-research-friendly.html

I think this has to be discussed. During the next days.


Peter


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:MMDD .... Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration

[Eric Walker]

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Stephen Cooke 
wrote:

Very true this is also true for the muon which has a rest mass for a pion
> is ~ 106 MeV.


This is one of the reasons I don't think muons are involved either.
Another reason -- if muons were being generated, you'd get muon catalyzed
fusion, and muon catalyzed fusion has all of the normal branching ratios
(e.g., for dd fusion, you'd get equal parts neutrons and tritium).

It will be interesting what Holmlids observations and explanations say, I'm
> quite curious as you say he could well have another explanation.


I have not yet looked closely at Holmlid's results, but I don't write them
off.  I'm keeping a distinction in my mind between his experimental
observations and his theoretical speculations.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:MMDD .... Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration

[Stephen Cooke]

One negative point to this idea I suppose is that if a pion is absorbed by a 
nucleon pair in a nucleus the whole mass energy in the pion will be released so 
if even a stationary pion was absorbed the final 2 nucleons in the pair will be 
ejected with kinetic energy about 63 MeV each. I suppose it is difficult to see 
how these nucleons would not generate gamma or neutrons on interaction with 
other nuclei.
Also on the negative side: If a pion is implicated and needs to be generated 
within a nucleus, i suppose if this is not from a high energy collision it 
would need to be created in a nucleus with higher total binding energy than the 
pion mass energy. This would be a medium weight nucleus so if we assume 8 MeV 
binding energy per nucleon it would probably require a nucleus heavier than 
Oxygen at least. 

From: stephen_coo...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:MMDD  Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:16:09 +0200




'The amount of energy needed to create a free pion is large; the rest mass for 
a pion is ~ 135 MeV'
Very true this is also true for the muon which has a rest mass for a pion is ~ 
106 MeV. 
I'm not sure if muons can be generated without pions? muon pair production 
would require even more energy. 
The energy is also quite high compared to the binding energy of light Nuclei.
If I am right I think the laser produces much less thermal energy too.
It is difficult to imagine how either muons (or pions) can form with out some 
kind of collective resonance effect or an additional high MeV energy source 
such as sufficient energy from a high energy fusion event or more even 
strangely a nucleon decay to mesons.
It will be interesting what Holmlids observations and explanations say, I'm 
quite curious as you say he could well have another explanation.

From: eric.wal...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:47:08 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:MMDD  Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 2:21 AM, Stephen Cooke  
wrote:
If any was produced we would need to balance this against those the energy 
required for pion production.
The amount of energy needed to create a free pion is large; the rest mass for a 
pion is ~ 135 MeV.  Consider that the largest amount of energy typically 
discussed in the context of cold fusion up to now has been ~ 24 MeV.  Holmlid's 
observations are likely to go back to something other than the generation of 
pions.
Eric

  

Re: [Vo]:MMDD .... Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration

[Axil Axil]

The SPP is also a analog black hole. This quasiparticle accumulates energy
in huge amounts and may become  as massive as 1 million gigavolts. This
particle is also a tachyon that forms a condensate called a tachyon
condensate  according to theory produces particles such as mesons.

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Stephen Cooke 
wrote:

> You might be right Axil, These days I certainly tend to think there is
> some kind of collective disruptive or resonant behaviour that is exciting
> the nuclei or causing them to act this way. I acknowledge your good
> arguments and evidence for the formation of SPP's in these devices. It also
> seems some kind of trigger for collective behaviour is required.
>
> I think its interesting to look at the possibilities of low energy virtual
> resonant meson exchange rather than nucleon exchange. If it can occur.
>
> I'm certainly no expert on this but I suppose if the resonance increases
> slowly (but still fast in atomic scales) the first real *single*
> particles to be generated would be pions? unless particle pairs involving
> electrons, positrons, muons and associated neutrinos are be generated
> before. Is this correct thinking?
>
> pion0 has slightly less mass than pion+ or pion- and has much shorter half
> life so it is curious if we do not see gamma from pion0 decay. Could it be
> that the longer half life of virtual Pion+ and Pion- means in theory are
> more likely to tunnel? Or electrons, muons and pion0 are suppressed somehow
> so that pion+ and pion- are the first to be generated.
>
> I suppose generating a real meson would have higher energy consequences,
> but this could lead to the observed muons.
>
> I'm imagining if the energy is a "slowly" building resonant effect maybe
> as soon as a pion is manifested if it is a pion- perhaps its wave function
> occupies the S orbital to form Pionium until it interacts with the nucleus
> or decays via muon decay. If it is a pion+ perhaps it is ejected with
> sufficient energy to interact with another Deuterium nucleus to form a
> diproton that decays to 2 high energy protons, or it decays to a muon of
> characteristic energy that is later detected.
>
> I suppose a real nuclear physicist will correct me on a lot of my
> assumptions.
>
> --
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 04:16:37 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:MMDD  Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration
> From: janap...@gmail.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>
> I believe that what you imagine is what is happening in one of the many
> cases involving SPP extreme magnetic projections and entanglement,
>

[Vo]:Hadronic (Exotic) Atoms

[Mark Jurich]

With the lifetime of charged pions being approximately 26 nanoseconds (recall that the speed of light is approx. 1 foot / 
nanosecond), there is still a "workable" amount of time using them to do "chemistry."


Here are some useful online papers/references to Hadronic Atoms, namely Pionic Hydrogen/Deuterium (in addition to those already 
uncovered by others, here):


http://arxiv.org/pdf/0705.3965.pdf
http://www.radiochem.org/paper/JN11/j011Shinohara.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0375947497004661
http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/cssm/workshops/60-fest-talks/Phillips.pdf

- Mark Jurich

Re: [Vo]: Translation of Russian paper on Ni-H experiment

[Bob Higgins]

>From what I saw of their experiment, the thermocouples (k-type) measuring
the two vessels were connected in series so that the measurement that came
out on the wires was the temperature difference between the two.  This may
be more accurate than having two absolute thermocouples and subtracting to
get a small temperature difference.  I believe that the temperature of the
empty vessel was presumed to be the temperature of a thermocouple in the
"air" nearby.

This portion of the setup is certainly worth some clarification by the
authors.

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:53 PM, H Veeder  wrote:

>
> On Oct 20, 2015 1:41 PM, "Jed Rothwell"  wrote:
> >
> > H Veeder  wrote:
> >
> >> It seems to me that based on the given data it is possible to interpret
> the temperature difference between the empty vessel and the vessel with
> "fuel" ( their quotation marks) as resulting from either endothermic
> activity or exothermic activity in the vessel with "fuel".
> >
> >
> > How can you have an endothermic reaction with an empty vessel?
> >
>
> I didn't suggest that. The paper only gives the relative temperature
> difference between the two vessels. We are not provided with absolute
> temperature measurements of each vessel.  Are we to assume that absolute
> temperature measurements were made so the fueled vessel was known to be
> hotter?
>
> Harry
>

[Vo]:Jacques Ruer Analysis of Rossi Patent

[David Roberson]

I was reviewing the latest analysis of Rossi's Ecat by Mr. Ruer.  Over the last 
few years I have posted many descriptions of the thermal behavior of a system 
of this type with positve feedback being a consequence of the design.

The curves generated by Ruer match my first models fairly well and that is a 
good beginning.  Thus far he has not pursued time domain analysis of the 
system.  Had he done so, he would have discovered that the device would have 
began to self heat at a temperature of around 625 C according to his graphs.  
You can predict this behavior by viewing the graph he published, since that is 
the temperature at which the input power requirement begins to display a 
negative slope.

One interesting consequence of breaching the negative resistance region is that 
the output temperature will begin to rise exponentially even thought the input 
heating power remains constant.  This type of behavior matches what I have 
referred to as a type 2 or type 3 thermal feedback system within my earlier 
posts.   It is not possible to stabilize the output at any temperature that 
exists within the negative slope region unless significant negative feedback is 
used to adjust the input drive.  For instance, the input must be reduced by a 
greater number of watts than the output rises due to an incremental increase in 
temperature.  The same criteria must be applied to an incremental decrease in 
the operational temperature or the device will cool back past the negative 
resistance knee where it stabilizes.

Ruer has defined a critical temperature level that I have likewise chosen as 
the point of no return.  This is where the input heating power shown on the 
curve has been reduced to zero watts.  As he must realize, if you exceed that 
operating temperature you will not be able to force the ECAT to cool down 
without resorting to some extra technique such as cool water spray.

Incidentally, Ruer's calculation of the device COP versus temperture does not 
take into consideration the thermal run away that begins once the temperature 
enters the negative slope region.   If a PWM drive signal is used similar to 
what he describes, it is possible to keep the device stable as its temperature 
oscillates between a couple of different levels, but the COP will not be 
greater than approximately 10 without great difficulty.  If normal quasi linear 
negative feedback is used for control, I suppose that higher values of COP can 
be obtained as you approach the point of no return.   The feedback sign must be 
adjusted to handle the fact that the slope of the power input versus 
temperature curve begins positive and changes to a negative direction once you 
begin to operate at a temperature past the knee.

It is good to see that others have replicated my conclusions to the first order 
and hopefully they will extend their models to be more inclusive of device 
operation.  This will happen once they begin to simulate the time domain 
behavior of their models.  Only then does it become evident that operation 
within the negative slope region has interesting consequences.

Dave

RE: [Vo]:MMDD .... Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration

[Stephen Cooke]

'The amount of energy needed to create a free pion is large; the rest mass for 
a pion is ~ 135 MeV'
Very true this is also true for the muon which has a rest mass for a pion is ~ 
106 MeV. 
I'm not sure if muons can be generated without pions? muon pair production 
would require even more energy. 
The energy is also quite high compared to the binding energy of light Nuclei.
If I am right I think the laser produces much less thermal energy too.
It is difficult to imagine how either muons (or pions) can form with out some 
kind of collective resonance effect or an additional high MeV energy source 
such as sufficient energy from a high energy fusion event or more even 
strangely a nucleon decay to mesons.
It will be interesting what Holmlids observations and explanations say, I'm 
quite curious as you say he could well have another explanation.

From: eric.wal...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 08:47:08 -0500
Subject: Re: [Vo]:MMDD  Muon Mediated Deuteron Disintegration
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 2:21 AM, Stephen Cooke  
wrote:
If any was produced we would need to balance this against those the energy 
required for pion production.
The amount of energy needed to create a free pion is large; the rest mass for a 
pion is ~ 135 MeV.  Consider that the largest amount of energy typically 
discussed in the context of cold fusion up to now has been ~ 24 MeV.  Holmlid's 
observations are likely to go back to something other than the generation of 
pions.
Eric
  

RE: [Vo]:unsubscribe

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Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 11:57 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:unsubscribe

 

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