RE: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

[Russ George]

Of course one makes kaons and pions through the prodding of nuclei with 
infiltrating protons so we have a bit of a chicken and egg puzzle. Ordinarily 
one needs accelerated protons but of course in cold fusion there is clearly an 
alternative to brute force.

 

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 4:44 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

 



 

Kaons and pions decay to muons.

 

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Russ George  > wrote:

Holmlid sees kaons and pions in his experiments as progenitors of his muons!


-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com   
[mailto:mix...@bigpond.com  ]
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 1:00 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com  
Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:08:13 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
>To counter one
>objection: it is well known that muons and antimuons are completely
>stable together below a threshold of acceleration, just like the quark
>and antiquark coexist in every nucleus of matter.

According to the standard model, there are no antiquarks in ordinary matter.
Just up and down quarks, which are not anti-particles of one another.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html



 

Re: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

[Axil Axil]

[image: Inline image 1]

Kaons and pions decay to muons.

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> Holmlid sees kaons and pions in his experiments as progenitors of his
> muons!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 1:00 PM
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor
>
> In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:08:13 -0800:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >To counter one
> >objection: it is well known that muons and antimuons are completely
> >stable together below a threshold of acceleration, just like the quark
> >and antiquark coexist in every nucleus of matter.
>
> According to the standard model, there are no antiquarks in ordinary
> matter.
> Just up and down quarks, which are not anti-particles of one another.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin van Spaandonk
>
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

[Russ George]

Holmlid sees kaons and pions in his experiments as progenitors of his muons!

-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com] 
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 1:00 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:08:13 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
>To counter one
>objection: it is well known that muons and antimuons are completely 
>stable together below a threshold of acceleration, just like the quark 
>and antiquark coexist in every nucleus of matter.

According to the standard model, there are no antiquarks in ordinary matter.
Just up and down quarks, which are not anti-particles of one another.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Axil Axil]

FYI

http://phys.org/news/2016-03-seeding-iron-pacific-carbon-air.html

Seeding iron in the Pacific may not pull carbon from air as thought

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 1:29 PM, Russ George  wrote:

> It is true that ‘few’ of us give a shit about the great dyings in the
> world, but some are doing real work to provide the antidote to this … watch
> my dust this year for more (nano hematite dust that is;)  read more about
> restoring the oceans at russgeorge.net
>
>
>
> *From:* ChemE Stewart [mailto:cheme...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 4, 2016 10:14 AM
> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?
>
>
>
> Hell, we've got thousands of birds, fish, bats, bees, butterflies, coral
> polyps, sea stars, sea lions dropping dead around us and very few
> people seem to give a shit...
>
> On Friday, March 4, 2016, Alain Sepeda  wrote:
>
> Maybe.
>
> One idea to protect humans from unknown risk is probably to put biological
> canaries not far, especially some having less efficient HSP defense.
>
>
>
> making assumption on a blackswan is risky.
>
> anyway there are many things we have learned by observation, even if not
> by theory.
>
> Until now the general ideas is that LENR really HATE radiations... that is
> part of it's rejection cause.
>
>
>
> 2016-03-04 17:55 GMT+01:00 Russ George :
>
> If speaking of conventional known radiations this comment about dose and
> detection is true however in ‘cold fusion’ clearly the unknown is afoot.
> One of those unknowns is what is it that can be there but not, or poorly,
> be seen. For example what might be seen as a nominal presence near
> background that can suddenly be made ‘visible’ to detectors where millirem
> signals turn into kilorem! (micro-Sieverts to Sieverts if you prefer)
> Fortunately the human body is more akin to our normal detectors than our
> enhanced cold fusion mischegunon detectors so the harming dose equivalent
> of those massive cold fusion radiations remains for us in health physics
> terms as low doses. Still the better cold fusion cooks are sure to see the
> most exposure and the nature of this new and still very poorly observed to
> say nothing of described radiations is far from clear. More than a few cold
> fusion scientists have succumbed already. As is said in ancient texts ‘one
> does not catch the unknown in a net of the known.’
>
>
>
> *From:* alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Alain Sepeda
> *Sent:* Friday, March 4, 2016 12:13 AM
> *To:* Vortex List
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?
>
>
>
> the dose, and the speed of dose to make someone sick is huge and canbe
> detected.
>
> This is what people name "deterministic effect" in radioprotection.
>
> This is above 700mSv as fast dose
>
>
>
> there is also undeterministic effect, typically cancer, whose severity is
> independent of the dose, but which are trigger for adult above 100-200mSv
> as fast dose.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> modern biology taught that a cell can endure a given number of genetic
> destruction without any short or long term problem.
>
> above a given rate, there is undeterministic effect (risk of caner of any
> gravity)
>
> and then above a high rate deterministic effect from sickness to death.
>
>
>
> there is much unfounded fear, especially for fulbody scan , foetal
> irradiation, positron imaging...
>
> the threshold today are well known, and the linear dose no treshold
> scarmongering is definitively dead, escept in the media...
>
>
>
>
>
> this article in french is a good reference
>
> http://www.pseudo-sciences.org/spip.php?article1789
>
> translated:
>
>
> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr=auto=en=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pseudo-sciences.org%2Fspip.php%3Farticle1789=1
>
>
>
> for those doubting on it, it refers to element of biology that I've seen
> few decade ago described for cancer inception , linked to HSP (heat shock
> protein, which as said in the article don't work only for radiation but for
> any aggression, mostly oxidative stress caused by respiration, the worst
> aggression for DNA)
>
>
>
> there is a video in french which is very clear and interesting fro some
> details not written
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9rrD3t3FY
>
>
>
> for example there is reference to the number of damage that a cell can
> endure without problem, and above whoch there is non deterministic risks.
>
>
>
> reference also to many myth propagated by scaremongers.
>
> I don't expect to convince as the propaganda is too strong to be opposed
> by data.
>
>
>
> A phenomenon we observe in LENR domain.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2016-03-04 6:57 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil :
>
> Rossi is complaining about a 'failure to thrive' condition such as losing
> weight without reason. We might consider that a primary symptom of chronic
> radiation exposure is unexplained weight loss.
>
> Andrea Rossi
> March 3, 2016 at 9:07 PM
> Jed Orwell:
> I continue to lose 

Re: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

[mixent]

In reply to  Jones Beene's message of Fri, 4 Mar 2016 10:08:13 -0800:
Hi,
[snip]
>To counter one
>objection: it is well known that muons and antimuons are completely stable
>together below a threshold of acceleration, just like the quark and
>antiquark coexist in every nucleus of matter.

According to the standard model, there are no antiquarks in ordinary matter.
Just up and down quarks, which are not anti-particles of one another.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

[Russ George]

Reading the Stubbs paper one might come to imagine that strange clusters of
muons could exist as a result of cold fusions prodding and would appear to
have characteristics somewhere between a proton and a neutron. When (and
where) the crazy muon clusters that are as mobile as neutrons dissipate 'a'
primary signature would be a flood of beta's. There are a lot of Nobel
prizes in QCD to be recalled!

 

From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 10:08 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

 

If the plot of the radiation spectrum from a glow-tube reactor encased in
lead- turns out to be typical of bremsstrahlung of high speed electrons,
instead of gamma radiation, the following is presented as an interpretation.

"An Alternative to the Quark-Gluon Structure of the Proton" by William L.
Stubbs - which can explain, or partially explain, Holmlid's mysterious muon
results.

  http://vixra.org/abs/1511.0191

Stubbs presents a new model of the proton by reanalyzing the SLAC proton and
deuteron F2 curves. He shows that the proton can be modeled accurately as
nine muons. [IMO - since this is quantum mechanical, there could be two
valid views both of which are correct, depending on circumstances]. 

Stubbs concludes that the deep inelastic scattering data supports a simpler
model of the proton than the standard quark-gluon model, at least for
explaining certain phenomena of proton disintegration. To counter one
objection: it is well known that muons and antimuons are completely stable
together below a threshold of acceleration, just like the quark and
antiquark coexist in every nucleus of matter. Antimuons operate to provide
the same functionality as gluons. Holmlid's detection of high levels of
muons some distance from his  reactor may provide experimental evidence of
such a situation.

BTW in muon decay, the electron is extremely fast and expected to have a
steep peak at 52 MeV which would provide massive bremsstrahlung in a lead
target, even (especially) in the situation of little or no excess heat seen
in the reactor itself. 

_
. The important part of the Hagelstein slides is for assessing what could be
happening in the glow-tube reactor, IF high energy radiation is seen in the
range of 2.7 MeV... this is an apparent target "signature" to look for, at
least when deuterium is the fuel (it would be a much different signature for
protium). If this signature should show itself in glow tube testing, it
would be a huge advancement in understanding. even if the counts are low
(they are expected to be low). 

 

RE: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

[Russ George]

Holy Muon Batman this is one staggering paper.

 

From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 10:08 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

 

If the plot of the radiation spectrum from a glow-tube reactor encased in
lead- turns out to be typical of bremsstrahlung of high speed electrons,
instead of gamma radiation, the following is presented as an interpretation.

"An Alternative to the Quark-Gluon Structure of the Proton" by William L.
Stubbs - which can explain, or partially explain, Holmlid's mysterious muon
results.

  http://vixra.org/abs/1511.0191

Stubbs presents a new model of the proton by reanalyzing the SLAC proton and
deuteron F2 curves. He shows that the proton can be modeled accurately as
nine muons. [IMO - since this is quantum mechanical, there could be two
valid views both of which are correct, depending on circumstances]. 

Stubbs concludes that the deep inelastic scattering data supports a simpler
model of the proton than the standard quark-gluon model, at least for
explaining certain phenomena of proton disintegration. To counter one
objection: it is well known that muons and antimuons are completely stable
together below a threshold of acceleration, just like the quark and
antiquark coexist in every nucleus of matter. Antimuons operate to provide
the same functionality as gluons. Holmlid's detection of high levels of
muons some distance from his  reactor may provide experimental evidence of
such a situation.

BTW in muon decay, the electron is extremely fast and expected to have a
steep peak at 52 MeV which would provide massive bremsstrahlung in a lead
target, even (especially) in the situation of little or no excess heat seen
in the reactor itself. 

_
. The important part of the Hagelstein slides is for assessing what could be
happening in the glow-tube reactor, IF high energy radiation is seen in the
range of 2.7 MeV... this is an apparent target "signature" to look for, at
least when deuterium is the fuel (it would be a much different signature for
protium). If this signature should show itself in glow tube testing, it
would be a huge advancement in understanding. even if the counts are low
(they are expected to be low). 

 

RE: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Russ George]

It is true that ‘few’ of us give a shit about the great dyings in the world, 
but some are doing real work to provide the antidote to this … watch my dust 
this year for more (nano hematite dust that is;)  read more about restoring the 
oceans at russgeorge.net

 

From: ChemE Stewart [mailto:cheme...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 10:14 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

 

Hell, we've got thousands of birds, fish, bats, bees, butterflies, coral 
polyps, sea stars, sea lions dropping dead around us and very few people seem 
to give a shit...

On Friday, March 4, 2016, Alain Sepeda  > wrote:

Maybe.

One idea to protect humans from unknown risk is probably to put biological 
canaries not far, especially some having less efficient HSP defense.

 

making assumption on a blackswan is risky.

anyway there are many things we have learned by observation, even if not by 
theory.

Until now the general ideas is that LENR really HATE radiations... that is part 
of it's rejection cause.

 

2016-03-04 17:55 GMT+01:00 Russ George  >:

If speaking of conventional known radiations this comment about dose and 
detection is true however in ‘cold fusion’ clearly the unknown is afoot. One of 
those unknowns is what is it that can be there but not, or poorly, be seen. For 
example what might be seen as a nominal presence near background that can 
suddenly be made ‘visible’ to detectors where millirem signals turn into 
kilorem! (micro-Sieverts to Sieverts if you prefer) Fortunately the human body 
is more akin to our normal detectors than our enhanced cold fusion mischegunon 
detectors so the harming dose equivalent of those massive cold fusion 
radiations remains for us in health physics terms as low doses. Still the 
better cold fusion cooks are sure to see the most exposure and the nature of 
this new and still very poorly observed to say nothing of described radiations 
is far from clear. More than a few cold fusion scientists have succumbed 
already. As is said in ancient texts ‘one does not catch the unknown in a net 
of the known.’

 

From: alain.coetm...@gmail.com 
  
[mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Alain 
Sepeda
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 12:13 AM
To: Vortex List
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

 

the dose, and the speed of dose to make someone sick is huge and canbe detected.

This is what people name "deterministic effect" in radioprotection.

This is above 700mSv as fast dose

 

there is also undeterministic effect, typically cancer, whose severity is 
independent of the dose, but which are trigger for adult above 100-200mSv as 
fast dose.

 

 

 

modern biology taught that a cell can endure a given number of genetic 
destruction without any short or long term problem.

above a given rate, there is undeterministic effect (risk of caner of any 
gravity)

and then above a high rate deterministic effect from sickness to death.

 

there is much unfounded fear, especially for fulbody scan , foetal irradiation, 
positron imaging...

the threshold today are well known, and the linear dose no treshold 
scarmongering is definitively dead, escept in the media...

 

 

this article in french is a good reference

http://www.pseudo-sciences.org/spip.php?article1789

translated:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr 

 
=auto=en=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pseudo-sciences.org%2Fspip.php%3Farticle1789=1

 

for those doubting on it, it refers to element of biology that I've seen few 
decade ago described for cancer inception , linked to HSP (heat shock protein, 
which as said in the article don't work only for radiation but for any 
aggression, mostly oxidative stress caused by respiration, the worst aggression 
for DNA)

 

there is a video in french which is very clear and interesting fro some details 
not written

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9rrD3t3FY

 

for example there is reference to the number of damage that a cell can endure 
without problem, and above whoch there is non deterministic risks.

 

reference also to many myth propagated by scaremongers.

I don't expect to convince as the propaganda is too strong to be opposed by 
data.

 

A phenomenon we observe in LENR domain.

 

 

 

2016-03-04 6:57 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil  >:

Rossi is complaining about a 'failure to thrive' condition such as losing 
weight without reason. We might consider that a primary symptom of chronic 
radiation exposure is unexplained weight loss.

Andrea Rossi
March 3, 2016 at 9:07 PM
Jed Orwell:
I continue to lose weight and we do not 

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[ChemE Stewart]

Hell, we've got thousands of birds, fish, bats, bees, butterflies, coral
polyps, sea stars, sea lions dropping dead around us and very few
people seem to give a shit...

On Friday, March 4, 2016, Alain Sepeda  wrote:

> Maybe.
> One idea to protect humans from unknown risk is probably to put biological
> canaries not far, especially some having less efficient HSP defense.
>
> making assumption on a blackswan is risky.
> anyway there are many things we have learned by observation, even if not
> by theory.
> Until now the general ideas is that LENR really HATE radiations... that is
> part of it's rejection cause.
>
> 2016-03-04 17:55 GMT+01:00 Russ George  >:
>
>> If speaking of conventional known radiations this comment about dose and
>> detection is true however in ‘cold fusion’ clearly the unknown is afoot.
>> One of those unknowns is what is it that can be there but not, or poorly,
>> be seen. For example what might be seen as a nominal presence near
>> background that can suddenly be made ‘visible’ to detectors where millirem
>> signals turn into kilorem! (micro-Sieverts to Sieverts if you prefer)
>> Fortunately the human body is more akin to our normal detectors than our
>> enhanced cold fusion mischegunon detectors so the harming dose equivalent
>> of those massive cold fusion radiations remains for us in health physics
>> terms as low doses. Still the better cold fusion cooks are sure to see the
>> most exposure and the nature of this new and still very poorly observed to
>> say nothing of described radiations is far from clear. More than a few cold
>> fusion scientists have succumbed already. As is said in ancient texts ‘one
>> does not catch the unknown in a net of the known.’
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* alain.coetm...@gmail.com
>>  [mailto:
>> alain.coetm...@gmail.com
>> ] *On Behalf
>> Of *Alain Sepeda
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 4, 2016 12:13 AM
>> *To:* Vortex List
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?
>>
>>
>>
>> the dose, and the speed of dose to make someone sick is huge and canbe
>> detected.
>>
>> This is what people name "deterministic effect" in radioprotection.
>>
>> This is above 700mSv as fast dose
>>
>>
>>
>> there is also undeterministic effect, typically cancer, whose severity is
>> independent of the dose, but which are trigger for adult above 100-200mSv
>> as fast dose.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> modern biology taught that a cell can endure a given number of genetic
>> destruction without any short or long term problem.
>>
>> above a given rate, there is undeterministic effect (risk of caner of any
>> gravity)
>>
>> and then above a high rate deterministic effect from sickness to death.
>>
>>
>>
>> there is much unfounded fear, especially for fulbody scan , foetal
>> irradiation, positron imaging...
>>
>> the threshold today are well known, and the linear dose no treshold
>> scarmongering is definitively dead, escept in the media...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> this article in french is a good reference
>>
>> http://www.pseudo-sciences.org/spip.php?article1789
>>
>> translated:
>>
>>
>> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr=auto=en=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pseudo-sciences.org%2Fspip.php%3Farticle1789=1
>>
>>
>>
>> for those doubting on it, it refers to element of biology that I've seen
>> few decade ago described for cancer inception , linked to HSP (heat shock
>> protein, which as said in the article don't work only for radiation but for
>> any aggression, mostly oxidative stress caused by respiration, the worst
>> aggression for DNA)
>>
>>
>>
>> there is a video in french which is very clear and interesting fro some
>> details not written
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9rrD3t3FY
>>
>>
>>
>> for example there is reference to the number of damage that a cell can
>> endure without problem, and above whoch there is non deterministic risks.
>>
>>
>>
>> reference also to many myth propagated by scaremongers.
>>
>> I don't expect to convince as the propaganda is too strong to be opposed
>> by data.
>>
>>
>>
>> A phenomenon we observe in LENR domain.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2016-03-04 6:57 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil > >:
>>
>> Rossi is complaining about a 'failure to thrive' condition such as losing
>> weight without reason. We might consider that a primary symptom of chronic
>> radiation exposure is unexplained weight loss.
>>
>> Andrea Rossi
>> March 3, 2016 at 9:07 PM
>> Jed Orwell:
>> I continue to lose weight and we do not understand why. I am going to
>> make a lot of “scopies” you name one, I scope it, but I feel well and work
>> my 12 hours per day on my E-Cats; today another important loophole with the
>> E-Cat X.
>> Anyway: yes, I am ready to pass to my Team all the skills necessary to
>> make without me, 

[Vo]:RE: High Harmoinc Generation in the glow-tube reactor

[Jones Beene]

If the plot of the radiation spectrum from a glow-tube reactor encased in
lead- turns out to be typical of bremsstrahlung of high speed electrons,
instead of gamma radiation, the following is presented as an interpretation.

"An Alternative to the Quark-Gluon Structure of the Proton" by William L.
Stubbs - which can explain, or partially explain, Holmlid's mysterious muon
results.
http://vixra.org/abs/1511.0191

Stubbs presents a new model of the proton by reanalyzing the SLAC proton and
deuteron F2 curves. He shows that the proton can be modeled accurately as
nine muons. [IMO - since this is quantum mechanical, there could be two
valid views both of which are correct, depending on circumstances]. 

Stubbs concludes that the deep inelastic scattering data supports a simpler
model of the proton than the standard quark-gluon model, at least for
explaining certain phenomena of proton disintegration. To counter one
objection: it is well known that muons and antimuons are completely stable
together below a threshold of acceleration, just like the quark and
antiquark coexist in every nucleus of matter. Antimuons operate to provide
the same functionality as gluons. Holmlid's detection of high levels of
muons some distance from his  reactor may provide experimental evidence of
such a situation.

BTW in muon decay, the electron is extremely fast and expected to have a
steep peak at 52 MeV which would provide massive bremsstrahlung in a lead
target, even (especially) in the situation of little or no excess heat seen
in the reactor itself. 

_
. The important part of the Hagelstein slides is for assessing what could be
happening in the glow-tube reactor, IF high energy radiation is seen in the
range of 2.7 MeV... this is an apparent target "signature" to look for, at
least when deuterium is the fuel (it would be a much different signature for
protium). If this signature should show itself in glow tube testing, it
would be a huge advancement in understanding. even if the counts are low
(they are expected to be low). 

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Alain Sepeda]

Maybe.
One idea to protect humans from unknown risk is probably to put biological
canaries not far, especially some having less efficient HSP defense.

making assumption on a blackswan is risky.
anyway there are many things we have learned by observation, even if not by
theory.
Until now the general ideas is that LENR really HATE radiations... that is
part of it's rejection cause.

2016-03-04 17:55 GMT+01:00 Russ George :

> If speaking of conventional known radiations this comment about dose and
> detection is true however in ‘cold fusion’ clearly the unknown is afoot.
> One of those unknowns is what is it that can be there but not, or poorly,
> be seen. For example what might be seen as a nominal presence near
> background that can suddenly be made ‘visible’ to detectors where millirem
> signals turn into kilorem! (micro-Sieverts to Sieverts if you prefer)
> Fortunately the human body is more akin to our normal detectors than our
> enhanced cold fusion mischegunon detectors so the harming dose equivalent
> of those massive cold fusion radiations remains for us in health physics
> terms as low doses. Still the better cold fusion cooks are sure to see the
> most exposure and the nature of this new and still very poorly observed to
> say nothing of described radiations is far from clear. More than a few cold
> fusion scientists have succumbed already. As is said in ancient texts ‘one
> does not catch the unknown in a net of the known.’
>
>
>
> *From:* alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Alain Sepeda
> *Sent:* Friday, March 4, 2016 12:13 AM
> *To:* Vortex List
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?
>
>
>
> the dose, and the speed of dose to make someone sick is huge and canbe
> detected.
>
> This is what people name "deterministic effect" in radioprotection.
>
> This is above 700mSv as fast dose
>
>
>
> there is also undeterministic effect, typically cancer, whose severity is
> independent of the dose, but which are trigger for adult above 100-200mSv
> as fast dose.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> modern biology taught that a cell can endure a given number of genetic
> destruction without any short or long term problem.
>
> above a given rate, there is undeterministic effect (risk of caner of any
> gravity)
>
> and then above a high rate deterministic effect from sickness to death.
>
>
>
> there is much unfounded fear, especially for fulbody scan , foetal
> irradiation, positron imaging...
>
> the threshold today are well known, and the linear dose no treshold
> scarmongering is definitively dead, escept in the media...
>
>
>
>
>
> this article in french is a good reference
>
> http://www.pseudo-sciences.org/spip.php?article1789
>
> translated:
>
>
> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr=auto=en=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pseudo-sciences.org%2Fspip.php%3Farticle1789=1
>
>
>
> for those doubting on it, it refers to element of biology that I've seen
> few decade ago described for cancer inception , linked to HSP (heat shock
> protein, which as said in the article don't work only for radiation but for
> any aggression, mostly oxidative stress caused by respiration, the worst
> aggression for DNA)
>
>
>
> there is a video in french which is very clear and interesting fro some
> details not written
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9rrD3t3FY
>
>
>
> for example there is reference to the number of damage that a cell can
> endure without problem, and above whoch there is non deterministic risks.
>
>
>
> reference also to many myth propagated by scaremongers.
>
> I don't expect to convince as the propaganda is too strong to be opposed
> by data.
>
>
>
> A phenomenon we observe in LENR domain.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2016-03-04 6:57 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil :
>
> Rossi is complaining about a 'failure to thrive' condition such as losing
> weight without reason. We might consider that a primary symptom of chronic
> radiation exposure is unexplained weight loss.
>
> Andrea Rossi
> March 3, 2016 at 9:07 PM
> Jed Orwell:
> I continue to lose weight and we do not understand why. I am going to make
> a lot of “scopies” you name one, I scope it, but I feel well and work my 12
> hours per day on my E-Cats; today another important loophole with the E-Cat
> X.
> Anyway: yes, I am ready to pass to my Team all the skills necessary to
> make without me, just in case. But I never in my life worked as well as I
> am doing during these days. Obviously, the faster we go, the better. Until
> the horse is good, better ride him.
> F9.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
>
> LENR could be producing a form of stealth radiation; radiation that
> damages structure and tissue but does not produce a reading on a radiation
> meter.
>
> John Fisher has detected 1.5 MeV alpha particles radiating from a central
> point of causation. Yet a gamma is not detected that should be there when
> that alpha particle hits the CR-39.
>
> It is well known in many LENR experiments that helium is detected without
> 

[Vo]:a number (value) worth a million words for LENR

[Peter Gluck]

do not take this literally

I bet we will have more info tomorrow or even later today

http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/03/mar-04-2016-number-worth-million-words.html
-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Axil Axil]

I don't understand yet what is happening in the Holmlid experiments. There
are shiploads of subatomic particles produced in the Holmlid reactor and
Holmlid says that hot fusion is happening (which I doubt) and yet there is
no gamma radiation coming out of all that chaos. Would the powers that be
at CERN let their personal walk around the ATLAS detector when it was in
operation producing Kaons. I don't think so.  Does muons catalyze fusion
inside the body if muons are injected?  What happens to decaying Kaons
inside the lungs. Should LENR experiments be done inside a Hot Cell just in
case?

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Russ George  wrote:

> If speaking of conventional known radiations this comment about dose and
> detection is true however in ‘cold fusion’ clearly the unknown is afoot.
> One of those unknowns is what is it that can be there but not, or poorly,
> be seen. For example what might be seen as a nominal presence near
> background that can suddenly be made ‘visible’ to detectors where millirem
> signals turn into kilorem! (micro-Sieverts to Sieverts if you prefer)
> Fortunately the human body is more akin to our normal detectors than our
> enhanced cold fusion mischegunon detectors so the harming dose equivalent
> of those massive cold fusion radiations remains for us in health physics
> terms as low doses. Still the better cold fusion cooks are sure to see the
> most exposure and the nature of this new and still very poorly observed to
> say nothing of described radiations is far from clear. More than a few cold
> fusion scientists have succumbed already. As is said in ancient texts ‘one
> does not catch the unknown in a net of the known.’
>
>
>
> *From:* alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Alain Sepeda
> *Sent:* Friday, March 4, 2016 12:13 AM
> *To:* Vortex List
> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?
>
>
>
> the dose, and the speed of dose to make someone sick is huge and canbe
> detected.
>
> This is what people name "deterministic effect" in radioprotection.
>
> This is above 700mSv as fast dose
>
>
>
> there is also undeterministic effect, typically cancer, whose severity is
> independent of the dose, but which are trigger for adult above 100-200mSv
> as fast dose.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> modern biology taught that a cell can endure a given number of genetic
> destruction without any short or long term problem.
>
> above a given rate, there is undeterministic effect (risk of caner of any
> gravity)
>
> and then above a high rate deterministic effect from sickness to death.
>
>
>
> there is much unfounded fear, especially for fulbody scan , foetal
> irradiation, positron imaging...
>
> the threshold today are well known, and the linear dose no treshold
> scarmongering is definitively dead, escept in the media...
>
>
>
>
>
> this article in french is a good reference
>
> http://www.pseudo-sciences.org/spip.php?article1789
>
> translated:
>
>
> http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr=auto=en=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pseudo-sciences.org%2Fspip.php%3Farticle1789=1
>
>
>
> for those doubting on it, it refers to element of biology that I've seen
> few decade ago described for cancer inception , linked to HSP (heat shock
> protein, which as said in the article don't work only for radiation but for
> any aggression, mostly oxidative stress caused by respiration, the worst
> aggression for DNA)
>
>
>
> there is a video in french which is very clear and interesting fro some
> details not written
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9rrD3t3FY
>
>
>
> for example there is reference to the number of damage that a cell can
> endure without problem, and above whoch there is non deterministic risks.
>
>
>
> reference also to many myth propagated by scaremongers.
>
> I don't expect to convince as the propaganda is too strong to be opposed
> by data.
>
>
>
> A phenomenon we observe in LENR domain.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2016-03-04 6:57 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil :
>
> Rossi is complaining about a 'failure to thrive' condition such as losing
> weight without reason. We might consider that a primary symptom of chronic
> radiation exposure is unexplained weight loss.
>
> Andrea Rossi
> March 3, 2016 at 9:07 PM
> Jed Orwell:
> I continue to lose weight and we do not understand why. I am going to make
> a lot of “scopies” you name one, I scope it, but I feel well and work my 12
> hours per day on my E-Cats; today another important loophole with the E-Cat
> X.
> Anyway: yes, I am ready to pass to my Team all the skills necessary to
> make without me, just in case. But I never in my life worked as well as I
> am doing during these days. Obviously, the faster we go, the better. Until
> the horse is good, better ride him.
> F9.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
>
> LENR could be producing a form of stealth radiation; radiation that
> damages structure and tissue but does not produce a reading on a radiation
> meter.
>
> John Fisher has detected 1.5 MeV alpha 

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Bob Higgins]

I think at least an equal concern to radiation exposure is the incidental
exposure to vented nickel tetracarbonyl vapor.  I believe this can cause
pulmonary distress at quite low concentrations.  The tolerance for nickel
tetracarbonyl may be quite low.  The nickel tetracarbonyl can come from
heating nickel with oxidized powders with something containing carbon.  The
carbon becomes CO and reacts with the nickel forming nickel tetracarbonyl -
known in the industry as "liquid death".

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 9:55 AM, Russ George  wrote:

> If speaking of conventional known radiations this comment about dose and
> detection is true however in ‘cold fusion’ clearly the unknown is afoot.
> One of those unknowns is what is it that can be there but not, or poorly,
> be seen. For example what might be seen as a nominal presence near
> background that can suddenly be made ‘visible’ to detectors where millirem
> signals turn into kilorem! (micro-Sieverts to Sieverts if you prefer)
> Fortunately the human body is more akin to our normal detectors than our
> enhanced cold fusion mischegunon detectors so the harming dose equivalent
> of those massive cold fusion radiations remains for us in health physics
> terms as low doses. Still the better cold fusion cooks are sure to see the
> most exposure and the nature of this new and still very poorly observed to
> say nothing of described radiations is far from clear. More than a few cold
> fusion scientists have succumbed already. As is said in ancient texts ‘one
> does not catch the unknown in a net of the known.’
>
>
>

RE: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Russ George]

If speaking of conventional known radiations this comment about dose and 
detection is true however in ‘cold fusion’ clearly the unknown is afoot. One of 
those unknowns is what is it that can be there but not, or poorly, be seen. For 
example what might be seen as a nominal presence near background that can 
suddenly be made ‘visible’ to detectors where millirem signals turn into 
kilorem! (micro-Sieverts to Sieverts if you prefer) Fortunately the human body 
is more akin to our normal detectors than our enhanced cold fusion mischegunon 
detectors so the harming dose equivalent of those massive cold fusion 
radiations remains for us in health physics terms as low doses. Still the 
better cold fusion cooks are sure to see the most exposure and the nature of 
this new and still very poorly observed to say nothing of described radiations 
is far from clear. More than a few cold fusion scientists have succumbed 
already. As is said in ancient texts ‘one does not catch the unknown in a net 
of the known.’

 

From: alain.coetm...@gmail.com [mailto:alain.coetm...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of 
Alain Sepeda
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2016 12:13 AM
To: Vortex List
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

 

the dose, and the speed of dose to make someone sick is huge and canbe detected.

This is what people name "deterministic effect" in radioprotection.

This is above 700mSv as fast dose

 

there is also undeterministic effect, typically cancer, whose severity is 
independent of the dose, but which are trigger for adult above 100-200mSv as 
fast dose.

 

 

 

modern biology taught that a cell can endure a given number of genetic 
destruction without any short or long term problem.

above a given rate, there is undeterministic effect (risk of caner of any 
gravity)

and then above a high rate deterministic effect from sickness to death.

 

there is much unfounded fear, especially for fulbody scan , foetal irradiation, 
positron imaging...

the threshold today are well known, and the linear dose no treshold 
scarmongering is definitively dead, escept in the media...

 

 

this article in french is a good reference

http://www.pseudo-sciences.org/spip.php?article1789

translated:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr 

 
=auto=en=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pseudo-sciences.org%2Fspip.php%3Farticle1789=1

 

for those doubting on it, it refers to element of biology that I've seen few 
decade ago described for cancer inception , linked to HSP (heat shock protein, 
which as said in the article don't work only for radiation but for any 
aggression, mostly oxidative stress caused by respiration, the worst aggression 
for DNA)

 

there is a video in french which is very clear and interesting fro some details 
not written

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9rrD3t3FY

 

for example there is reference to the number of damage that a cell can endure 
without problem, and above whoch there is non deterministic risks.

 

reference also to many myth propagated by scaremongers.

I don't expect to convince as the propaganda is too strong to be opposed by 
data.

 

A phenomenon we observe in LENR domain.

 

 

 

2016-03-04 6:57 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil  >:

Rossi is complaining about a 'failure to thrive' condition such as losing 
weight without reason. We might consider that a primary symptom of chronic 
radiation exposure is unexplained weight loss.

Andrea Rossi
March 3, 2016 at 9:07 PM
Jed Orwell:
I continue to lose weight and we do not understand why. I am going to make a 
lot of “scopies” you name one, I scope it, but I feel well and work my 12 hours 
per day on my E-Cats; today another important loophole with the E-Cat X.
Anyway: yes, I am ready to pass to my Team all the skills necessary to make 
without me, just in case. But I never in my life worked as well as I am doing 
during these days. Obviously, the faster we go, the better. Until the horse is 
good, better ride him.
F9.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

LENR could be producing a form of stealth radiation; radiation that damages 
structure and tissue but does not produce a reading on a radiation meter.

John Fisher has detected 1.5 MeV alpha particles radiating from a central point 
of causation. Yet a gamma is not detected that should be there when that alpha 
particle hits the CR-39. 

It is well known in many LENR experiments that helium is detected without the 
generation of gamma radiation. This implies that alpha particles are produced 
without the generation of the gammas that usually accompany the alphas.

How could this be possible, that alpha radiation can exist without the 
detection of gamma radiation? It could be that a general state of multi 
particle entanglement between the alpha particles and their center of 
causation... let us call that cause an exotic neutral particle (ENP)... 
transfers all gamma radiation 

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Alain Sepeda]

To match with the problem of radiation accidents, the biggest cause of
trouble in Chernobyl and in Fukushima is the terrible impact of stress.
Andrea Rossi, like many of us, may just be tired, stressed, by fear, by
enthusiasm, by challenges and stakes, by internal conflicts, by technical
troubles...

Anyway having a canari inside the LENR mine, like a guinea pig activity
park, tropical aquarium, bacterial culture, orchids, CR39 stock, plus good
old Geiger , may be a good idea.



It is good for stress too to grow plants, watch fishes, care of animals.
An roasted guinea pig is a south america especially, in case of big LENR
bursts.


2016-03-04 15:48 GMT+01:00 a.ashfield :

> Alain Sepeda.
> Agreed.
> Reminds of the media scare about people living near nuclear power plants
> getting cancer.  Ignoring that the workers IN the power plants didn't.
>
> However well intentioned, comment's like Axil's get picked up and used by
> opponents of change.  I much doubt Rossi would be "feeling well" if he had
> suffered a radiation overdose.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[a.ashfield]

Alain Sepeda.
Agreed.
Reminds of the media scare about people living near nuclear power plants 
getting cancer.  Ignoring that the workers IN the power plants didn't.


However well intentioned, comment's like Axil's get picked up and used 
by opponents of change.  I much doubt Rossi would be "feeling well" if 
he had suffered a radiation overdose.

Re: [Vo]:Is Rossi sick?

[Alain Sepeda]

the dose, and the speed of dose to make someone sick is huge and canbe
detected.
This is what people name "deterministic effect" in radioprotection.
This is above 700mSv as fast dose

there is also undeterministic effect, typically cancer, whose severity is
independent of the dose, but which are trigger for adult above 100-200mSv
as fast dose.



modern biology taught that a cell can endure a given number of genetic
destruction without any short or long term problem.
above a given rate, there is undeterministic effect (risk of caner of any
gravity)
and then above a high rate deterministic effect from sickness to death.

there is much unfounded fear, especially for fulbody scan , foetal
irradiation, positron imaging...
the threshold today are well known, and the linear dose no treshold
scarmongering is definitively dead, escept in the media...


this article in french is a good reference
http://www.pseudo-sciences.org/spip.php?article1789
translated:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fr=auto=en=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pseudo-sciences.org%2Fspip.php%3Farticle1789=1

for those doubting on it, it refers to element of biology that I've seen
few decade ago described for cancer inception , linked to HSP (heat shock
protein, which as said in the article don't work only for radiation but for
any aggression, mostly oxidative stress caused by respiration, the worst
aggression for DNA)

there is a video in french which is very clear and interesting fro some
details not written

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L9rrD3t3FY

for example there is reference to the number of damage that a cell can
endure without problem, and above whoch there is non deterministic risks.

reference also to many myth propagated by scaremongers.
I don't expect to convince as the propaganda is too strong to be opposed by
data.

A phenomenon we observe in LENR domain.



2016-03-04 6:57 GMT+01:00 Axil Axil :

> Rossi is complaining about a 'failure to thrive' condition such as losing
> weight without reason. We might consider that a primary symptom of chronic
> radiation exposure is unexplained weight loss.
>
> Andrea Rossi
> March 3, 2016 at 9:07 PM
> Jed Orwell:
> I continue to lose weight and we do not understand why. I am going to make
> a lot of “scopies” you name one, I scope it, but I feel well and work my 12
> hours per day on my E-Cats; today another important loophole with the E-Cat
> X.
> Anyway: yes, I am ready to pass to my Team all the skills necessary to
> make without me, just in case. But I never in my life worked as well as I
> am doing during these days. Obviously, the faster we go, the better. Until
> the horse is good, better ride him.
> F9.
> Warm Regards,
> A.R.
>
> LENR could be producing a form of stealth radiation; radiation that
> damages structure and tissue but does not produce a reading on a radiation
> meter.
>
> John Fisher has detected 1.5 MeV alpha particles radiating from a central
> point of causation. Yet a gamma is not detected that should be there when
> that alpha particle hits the CR-39.
>
> It is well known in many LENR experiments that helium is detected without
> the generation of gamma radiation. This implies that alpha particles are
> produced without the generation of the gammas that usually accompany the
> alphas.
>
> How could this be possible, that alpha radiation can exist without the
> detection of gamma radiation? It could be that a general state of multi
> particle entanglement between the alpha particles and their center of
> causation... let us call that cause an exotic neutral particle (ENP)...
> transfers all gamma radiation through a quantum mechanical pathway to the
> ENP.
>
> However, the damage that the alpha particle produces through kinetic
> impact still occurs. Also, there is evidence that the ENP and float in the
> air. If this is in fact true, this particle can be taken into the body
> where it can catalyze nuclear reactions in tissue... and here too the gamma
> radiation is hidden.
>
> This possibility entered my mind when Mark LeClair claimed that he and his
> research partner were sickened and entered the hospital after a experiment
> with a cavitation based LENR system. Could LeClair have taken into his body
> a large number of these ENPs.
>
> It is important to understand how ENPs work if they exist to protect the
> thousands of replicators that will be getting into the science of LENR.
>
> Like Marie Curie, Rossi might have sacrificed his health to the unknown
> dangers that one must face in the LENR science.
>