Re: [Vo]:Phonon–Nuclear Coupling

[mixent]

In reply to  JonesBeene's message of Mon, 30 Oct 2017 15:17:46 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>
>Nigel
>
>With water, there is the phenomenon of “proton hopping” even without 
>cavitation. 
>
>The Hagelstein paper you cite proposes a neutron analog of electron hopping in 
>semiconductors. This means that there are two natural phenomena on which to 
>model neutron hopping.
>
>Protons hop from one water molecule to another naturally and consequently the 
>principle of proton mobility in water has been known for 200 years ... now 
>called the Grotthuss mechanism – but all attempts to split water more 
>efficiently by using it have failed. It is a very fast mechanism and 
>apparently recombination is too rapid to make it useful.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grotthuss_mechanism

I don't think this actually requires proton tunneling. Collisions between
molecules would suffice. 
>
>But the Grotthuss mechanism could be understood to provide a closer analogy to 
>neutron hopping, since the mass difference is small between the two, with the 
>huge advantage of the neutron having no difficulty with the Coulomb barrier.

Neutrons don't have a problem with the Coulomb barrier, but they are much more
firmly bound to their nucleus than a proton is bound in a water molecule.

>
>Radiation in the range of 1-5 keV is surely evidence of some type of LENR but 
>not cold fusion. It is too bad that the two are conflated.

It may not be evidence of some type of LENR. The shock wave would accelerate the
atoms/electrons of the plate, possible sufficient to create the effect directly.
BTW 1-5 keV is also what one might expect from a Hydrino reaction. UV could
excite the electrons ;)
[snip]
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:Phonon–Nuclear Coupling

[JonesBeene]

Nigel

With water, there is the phenomenon of “proton hopping” even without 
cavitation. 

The Hagelstein paper you cite proposes a neutron analog of electron hopping in 
semiconductors. This means that there are two natural phenomena on which to 
model neutron hopping.

Protons hop from one water molecule to another naturally and consequently the 
principle of proton mobility in water has been known for 200 years ... now 
called the Grotthuss mechanism – but all attempts to split water more 
efficiently by using it have failed. It is a very fast mechanism and apparently 
recombination is too rapid to make it useful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grotthuss_mechanism

But the Grotthuss mechanism could be understood to provide a closer analogy to 
neutron hopping, since the mass difference is small between the two, with the 
huge advantage of the neutron having no difficulty with the Coulomb barrier.

Radiation in the range of 1-5 keV is surely evidence of some type of LENR but 
not cold fusion. It is too bad that the two are conflated.

From: Nigel Dyer
One of the systems mentioned in Hagelstein's 2015 paper 
(http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/108/04/0601.pdf) is the Vysotskii 
system where what appears to be a coherent collapse of cavitaion bubbles causes 
a shock wave to travel through a metal plate and generate a very sharp pulse of 
1-5keV X-rays from the metal surface on the other side. I have just come back 
from a conference where Vysotskii presented this.  
I felt that it was very clever and appeared to show some very interesting 
coherent energy conversion phenomena, but there did not appear to be any 
evidence of LENR
Nigel
JonesBeene wrote:
Hi Robin
 
The neutron “hopping” modality is indeed one way that gain could happen.
 
In fact you are probably referring to Hagelstein’s 1993 paper where he 
introduces this concept wrt palladium.
 
I do not think he was envisioning iron as the active metal at that time.
 
Perhaps he will be reminded of this possibility.
 
I like it but it also demands that the 2.4 MeV gamma is attenuated via the 
down-conversion aspect – so there are two miracles involved.
 
… or do you get both miracles for the price of one when you have up and down 
conversion together  ???
 

Re: [Vo]:A peek at the CODA

[Frank Znidarsic]

Thanks mixent.  There is a battery connection under the car through a trapdoor. 
 We will look at that.   The orange connector top left is the one to battery.  
We will pull it and measure the voltage.  The meter in the car say 30%.   I 
believe that reading comes off of the charger in the trunk.  This charger has a 
different connection to the battery.



-Original Message-
From: mixent 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Mon, Oct 30, 2017 3:15 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A peek at the CODA

In reply to  Frank Znidarsic's message of Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:44:15 -0400:
Hi Frank,
[snip]
>Under the hood of a CODA electric.  It lights up and comes on but will not go. 
> Does anyone know what is what?

Sounds like a nearly flat battery. Has the owner tried recharging overnight?
Have the fuses been checked?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Phonon–Nuclear Coupling

[Nigel Dyer]

One of the systems mentioned in Hagelstein's 2015 paper 
(http://www.currentscience.ac.in/Volumes/108/04/0601.pdf) is the 
Vysotskii system where what appears to be a coherent collapse of 
cavitaion bubbles causes a shock wave to travel through a metal plate 
and generate a very sharp pulse of 1-5keV X-rays from the metal surface 
on the other side. I have just come back from a conference where 
Vysotskii presented this.


I felt that it was very clever and appeared to show some very 
interesting coherent energy conversion phenomena, but there did not 
appear to be any evidence of LENR


Nigel

On 27/10/2017 23:09, JonesBeene wrote:


Hi Robin

The neutron “hopping” modality is indeed one way that gain could happen.

In fact you are probably referring to Hagelstein’s 1993 paper where he 
introduces this concept wrt palladium.


I do not think he was envisioning iron as the active metal at that time.

Perhaps he will be reminded of this possibility.

I like it but it also demands that the 2.4 MeV gamma is attenuated via 
the down-conversion aspect – so there are two miracles involved.


… or do you get both miracles for the price of one when you have up 
and down conversion together  ???

Re: [Vo]:A peek at the CODA

[mixent]

In reply to  Frank Znidarsic's message of Mon, 30 Oct 2017 11:44:15 -0400:
Hi Frank,
[snip]
>Under the hood of a CODA electric.  It lights up and comes on but will not go. 
> Does anyone know what is what?

Sounds like a nearly flat battery. Has the owner tried recharging overnight?
Have the fuses been checked?

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

RE: [Vo]:Article on approaches to energy storage

[David L. Babcock]

I read the hole-in-water one. All BS, and stupid. To get a “head” the hole has 
to be not just empty when the seawater enters, it has to have a rigid shape. 
But when empty, and 100 feet deep, the upward pressure on the bottom will be 50 
psi, or mega-tons total (wild guess – somebody could waste time doing the math) 
over the whole structure. It would pop up out of the water, leaving a slight 
depression if any (no head). Put more realistically, as it was pumped out by 
the wind turbines output, it would slowly collapse upward. How does something 
this dumb make the light of day?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jed Rothwell
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 9:37 AM
To: Vortex
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Article on approaches to energy storage

Pumped storage is popular in the mountainous parts of Germany. They have "6,806 
MW" of pumped storage capacity:

https://www.hydropower.org/country-profiles/germany
That doesn't tell you much though, does it? 6,806 MW for how long? A half hour? 
One day?

In Belgium they are talking about building a large hole in the ocean for pumped 
energy storage. Seriously. See:

https://www.kcet.org/redefine/belgium-may-build-hole-in-the-ocean-to-store-energy

- Jed

[Vo]:A peek at the CODA

[Frank Znidarsic]

Under the hood of a CODA electric.  It lights up and comes on but will not go.  
Does anyone know what is what?




http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/temp/car.jpg





Frank Znidarsic

Re: [Vo]:Article on approaches to energy storage

[Jed Rothwell]

Pumped storage is popular in the mountainous parts of Germany. They have
"6,806 MW" of pumped storage capacity:

https://www.hydropower.org/country-profiles/germany

That doesn't tell you much though, does it? 6,806 MW for how long? A half
hour? One day?

In Belgium they are talking about building a large hole in the ocean for
pumped energy storage. Seriously. See:

https://www.kcet.org/redefine/belgium-may-build-hole-in-the-ocean-to-store-energy

- Jed