[Vo]:Re: quote from my book

[Frank Znidarsic]

Bob a short but not quite correct answer woold be,  Normally we start with 
Planck's constant a formulate quantum mechanics.  Planck's constant is not 
classical.  One of the things that come out of this analysis would be the 
classical radius of the electron.
Now lets say that the classical radius of the electron is an effect of mimimun 
of stray capacatance.  That's a classical idea.  Now lets reformulate quantum 
physics, not starting with Plancks constant, but rather starting with the 
classsical radius of the electron.  Planck's constant then falls out as a 
dependent variable.  
The big deal is that now the foundation of the model is classical from the get 
go.  A lot of other things fall out also like the non-conservation of inertial 
mass.
thats it in a nutshell.
Frank Z



 

Re: [Vo]:quote from my book

[Frank Znidarsic]

Thank you Bob.  The quote did not text properly upon the cut and past but the 
message was there.  Normally the classical realm is considered to be a subset 
of the quantum realm.  I discovered this thing called a quantum of capacitacnce 
in about 1995.  It a mimimun of stray capacitance.  It is the the capacitance 
of a sphere the size of the classcial radius of the electron.  It is also the 
"gravitational capacitace" of the universe. 
Capacitace is a geometric property.   The quantum of capacitance is  geometric 
restriction.  The quantum realm appears as a subset of the classical realm as a 
result of the geometric restriction.  Its classical.  Its a long story that's 
why I wrote a book.  Pieces of it have been publised in peer reviewed journals.
Frank Znidarsic


-Original Message-
From: bobcook39...@hotmail.com 
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
Sent: Thu, Mar 28, 2019 7:56 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:quote from my book

#yiv1202456880 #yiv1202456880 -- _filtered #yiv1202456880 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 
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further expalin the crux of your comment, including the pertinent text of your 
book would be helpful.  I have no clue as to understanding your comment.   Bob 
Cook      From: Frank Znidarsic 
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 1:23:14 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:quote from my book This author suggests that that an elastic 
discontinuity of radius2rp appears as one effect of a minimum of stray 
electrical capacitance.  This minimum of capacitance is a geometric constraint. 
 The quantum realm appears, within a subset of Newtonian mechanics, as a 
universal effect of this constraint. 

RE: [Vo]:quote from my book

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

To further expalin the crux of your comment, including the pertinent text of 
your book would be helpful.  I have no clue as to understanding your comment.

Bob Cook



From: Frank Znidarsic 
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 1:23:14 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:quote from my book

This author suggests that that an elastic discontinuity of radius 2rp appears 
as one effect of a minimum of stray electrical capacitance.  This minimum of 
capacitance is a geometric constraint.  The quantum realm appears, within a 
subset of Newtonian mechanics, as a universal effect of this constraint.

RE: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones—

You are missing the subtle issue that the link to the IEC site identified 25kw 
not 25kwh of energy storage.  They do not know the difference between power and 
energy.  I think that was the crux of Terry’s remark.

Bob Cook

From: Jones Beene
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 1:21 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

This machine is surely an enigma but is it a scam? It does not seem to be.

There is a possibility that the unit presently will function more as a UPS than 
a primary source of electrical power. Otherwise it makes no economic sense... 
other than being a scientific curiosity supplying "free energy" in a limited 
sense which ignores the capital cost. Here's why.

Las Vegas has very low electricity rates 8+ cents/kwh thanks to a famous nearby 
dam. There is no way this device will save money to the customer unless they 
are practically giving the hardware away. It appears that the 25 kwh electrical 
energy represents the total energy storage capacity of the flywheel+magmo, when 
the unit is fully charged, not a continuous output.

In fact, the continuous power output looks to be something in the range of 500 
watts. IOW in a full year of operation, 24/7 it will only produce 4000 kwh 
total (nominally free) energy for the year.

Yet apparently that energy is indeed "free" in the sense of coming from 
magnets, confounding the experts and ignoring the overhead cost of the unit... 
i.e. unless... the present purpose was indeed different - and the plan is that 
it will to be used as a UPS backup... plus possibly... the customers have other 
incentives as well (stock?)

IOW this unit's best useful purpose at present seems to be as a UPS backup 
since even if it did supply 500 watts continuously the value of that 
electricity would be about $170 bucks per year - so it is not going to save the 
planet at this stage of development, and the customer cannot benefit from it 
compared to regular utility rates. A further breakthrough seems to be needed.

And given that it shouldn't even work at all - maybe that follow-on 
breakthrough is not farfetched as it seems.

Who knows? Maybe the business plan is to get a few hundred of them out there as 
UPS systems and hope they can figure out how to boost the output considerably 
further down the road.

Jones

H LV wrote:

  :-D  "two tens for a five"
https://youtu.be/f7pMYHn-1yA

Harry

Terry Blanton wrote:
40 kw of mechanical energy

uh-huh.  They sure know what they are talking about.

Re: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[H LV]

Is it scam? I don't know, but I don't think it is the duty of an observer
to explain away such an incongrous statement when the statement is made by
someone who purports to be knowledgeable.

Harry


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 4:21 PM Jones Beene  wrote:

> This machine is surely an enigma but is it a scam? It does not seem to be.
>
> There is a possibility that the unit presently will function more as a UPS
> than a primary source of electrical power. Otherwise it makes no economic
> sense... other than being a scientific curiosity supplying "free energy" in
> a limited sense which ignores the capital cost. Here's why.
>
> Las Vegas has very low electricity rates 8+ cents/kwh thanks to a famous
> nearby dam. There is no way this device will save money to the customer
> unless they are practically giving the hardware away. It appears that the
> 25 kwh electrical energy represents the total energy storage capacity of
> the flywheel+magmo, when the unit is fully charged, not a continuous output.
>
> In fact, the continuous power output looks to be something in the range of
> 500 watts. IOW in a full year of operation, 24/7 it will only produce 4000
> kwh total (nominally free) energy for the year.
>
> Yet apparently that energy is indeed "free" in the sense of coming from
> magnets, confounding the experts and ignoring the overhead cost of the
> unit... i.e. unless... the present purpose was indeed different - and the
> plan is that it will to be used as a UPS backup... plus possibly... the
> customers have other incentives as well (stock?)
>
> IOW this unit's best useful purpose at present seems to be as a UPS backup
> since even if it did supply 500 watts continuously the value of that
> electricity would be about $170 bucks per year - so it is not going to save
> the planet at this stage of development, and the customer cannot benefit
> from it compared to regular utility rates. A further breakthrough seems to
> be needed.
>
> And given that it shouldn't even work at all - maybe that follow-on
> breakthrough is not farfetched as it seems.
>
> Who knows? Maybe the business plan is to get a few hundred of them out
> there as UPS systems and hope they can figure out how to boost the output
> considerably further down the road.
>
> Jones
>
> H LV wrote:
>
>   :-D  "two tens for a five"
> https://youtu.be/f7pMYHn-1yA
>
> Harry
>
> Terry Blanton wrote:
>
> 40 *kw* of mechanical *energy*
>
>
> uh-huh.  They sure know what they are talking about.
>
>

[Vo]:quote from my book

[Frank Znidarsic]

This author suggests thatthat an elastic discontinuity of radius 2rp appears as 
oneeffect of a minimum of stray electrical capacitance.  This minimum of 
capacitance is a geometricconstraint.  The quantum realm appears,within a 
subset of Newtonian mechanics, as a universal effect of thisconstraint.

Re: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[Jones Beene]

 This machine is surely an enigma but is it a scam? It does not seem to be. 

There is a possibility that the unit presently will function more as a UPS than 
a primary source of electrical power. Otherwise it makes no economic sense... 
other than being a scientific curiosity supplying "free energy" in a limited 
sense which ignores the capital cost. Here's why.

Las Vegas has very low electricity rates 8+ cents/kwh thanks to a famous nearby 
dam. There is no way this device will save money to the customer unless they 
are practically giving the hardware away. It appears that the 25 kwh electrical 
energy represents the total energy storage capacity of the flywheel+magmo, when 
the unit is fully charged, not a continuous output.
 In fact, the continuous power output looks to be something in the range of 500 
watts. IOW in a full year of operation, 24/7 it will only produce 4000 kwh 
total (nominally free) energy for the year. 

Yet apparently that energy is indeed "free" in the sense of coming from 
magnets, confounding the experts and ignoring the overhead cost of the unit... 
i.e. unless... the present purpose was indeed different - and the plan is that 
it will to be used as a UPS backup... plus possibly... the customers have other 
incentives as well (stock?) 

IOW this unit's best useful purpose at present seems to be as a UPS backup 
since even if it did supply 500 watts continuously the value of that 
electricity would be about $170 bucks per year - so it is not going to save the 
planet at this stage of development, and the customer cannot benefit from it 
compared to regular utility rates. A further breakthrough seems to be needed. 

And given that it shouldn't even work at all - maybe that follow-on 
breakthrough is not farfetched as it seems.

Who knows? Maybe the business plan is to get a few hundred of them out there as 
UPS systems and hope they can figure out how to boost the output considerably 
further down the road.
Jones

H LV wrote: 

  :-D  "two tens for a five"https://youtu.be/f7pMYHn-1yA

Harry
Terry Blanton wrote:


40 kw of mechanical energy

uh-huh.  They sure know what they are talking about. 
  

[Vo]:​Why I Don’t “Believe” in “Science”

[H LV]

Why I Don’t “Believe” in “Science”

Science isn't about "belief." It's about facts, evidence, theories,
experiments.

by ROBERT TRACINSKI  MARCH 26, 2019

https://thebulwark.com/why-i-dont-believe-in-science/

begin quote
<>
end quote

Re: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[H LV]

:-D

"two tens for a five"
https://youtu.be/f7pMYHn-1yA

Harry

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 8:06 PM Terry Blanton 
> 40 *kw* of mechanical *energy*
>>
>
> uh-huh.  They sure know what they are talking about.
>

Re: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[Jones Beene]

 

 Nigel Dyer wrote: Last week I was made aware of a 1982 patent taken out by 
Johann Grander on a magnetic motor.  The text only appears to be available in 
German so I spent an hour or so with Google translate converting it to English. 
 
 
... That would be this guy?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Grander
I think you may have wasted an hour, Nigel 


 

RE: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

The link to the Army patent has no paratical application identified that I 
could find.

Does anyone know about how the patented device is configured in the IEC engine?

Is the inference from all this that IEC device gets energy from some other 
potential energy source?

For example,  high tension electric AC transmission wires could be souch a 
source of energy , or maybe even small dynamic variations in the earth’s 
ambient field.

Of course,  conservaion of energy and/or angular momentum may be violated.   
However,  energy and angular momentum are a little alike and may be swapped one 
for the other in a   coherent system such as  is utilized in the IEC device.  
The magnetic field  may provide the coupling among the various primary 
particles present in that coherent system,  allowing the swapping to happen.  
Intrinsic spin (angular momentum) as well as orbital angular momentum—atomic 
and nuclear—could be involved.  The initial rotation provides the necessary 
resonances to restore the remanence of the materials on the atomic scale, that 
orginal state being a quasi stable low potential for the whole coherent system.

Good isotopic measurements before and after substantial mechanical energy 
extraction should reveal changes associated with a decrease of total  potential 
energy for the various isotopes.

Bob Cook




From: JonesBeene 
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 6:37:29 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...


Apparently, the favored explanation given by investors in IEC is that the 
inventor came up with a “monopole” permanent magnet (most likely a 
pseudo-monopole).

The following older patent assigned to the US Army, is the Leupold patent, 
which describes a permanent composite magnet in which materials are laminated 
in such a way that  one pole is disproportionately far stronger than the other. 
If the disproportion is large enough, you have a pseudo-monopole

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4692732

There is definitely an analogy here to the Halbach array. As we know, that is 
an arrangement of permanent magnets which augments the field on one side of the 
array while cancelling the field to near zero on the other side. If you were 
trying to “re-patent” the Halbach or the Leupold array, then you might try to 
label it as a monopole and see if the patent office will  bite. In the mean 
time you want to remain silent.

It is definitely possible the pseudo-monopole magnets are incorporated into the 
flywheel itself. It is also possible that these permanent magnets are 
hybridized with pulse coils so as to provide  very short electrical pulses at 
low duty or  per revolution, in order to prevent immediate demagnetization.

The strange story is starting to get legs… I’m no longer a skeptic but as 
always – demagnetization will be the critical issue.

Jones

From: Dave Roberson

Nice sized flywheel.  Could store a lot of energy so it is going to be hard to 
prove that the magnets are the real source.  I am skeptical.

Dave


From: Terry Blanton

40 kw of mechanical energy

uh-huh.  They sure know what they are talking about.

Re: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[Nigel Dyer]

Last week I was made aware of a 1982 petent taken out by Johann Grander 
on a magnetic motor.  The text only appears to be available in German so 
I spent an hour or so with Google translate converting it to English.


https://patents.google.com/patent/WO1982003300A1/it

Nigel

On 27/03/2019 15:48, JonesBeene wrote:


Magnetic motors magically appear in cyberspace from time to time, but 
usually they will demagnetize quickly or never work to begin with.


Supposedly, however,  there is one version  which  has been operating 
in Las Vegas for a while.


At least it is aptly located… Place your bets…

https://overunity.com/18188/iec-earth-engine-first-magnet-motor-installed-in-las-vegas/dlattach/attach/172437/image// 



This image is eye-candy and not the actual device  which is said to be 
working. It is reminiscent of the RAR hype, for sure.


This is the IEC site – they definitely want your investment dollars 
and expect to raise a quarter billion - but is the technology for real?


https://ie.energy/index.html

If it is real this time (and it could be according to people who have 
seen it running) -  the Company is  going about the early stage 
process in what appears to be  the wrong way. They do have good 
Universities in Nevada and Az. However, they apparently  think that 
skirting the experts is the best  way to proceed… and there are a lot 
of gamblers out there who routinely bet fortunes on riskier ventures. 
Time will tell.

RE: [Vo]:Magmo in the land of lost wages...

[JonesBeene]

Apparently, the favored explanation given by investors in IEC is that the 
inventor came up with a “monopole” permanent magnet (most likely a 
pseudo-monopole).

The following older patent assigned to the US Army, is the Leupold patent, 
which describes a permanent composite magnet in which materials are laminated 
in such a way that  one pole is disproportionately far stronger than the other. 
If the disproportion is large enough, you have a pseudo-monopole

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4692732

There is definitely an analogy here to the Halbach array. As we know, that is 
an arrangement of permanent magnets which augments the field on one side of the 
array while cancelling the field to near zero on the other side. If you were 
trying to “re-patent” the Halbach or the Leupold array, then you might try to 
label it as a monopole and see if the patent office will  bite. In the mean 
time you want to remain silent.

It is definitely possible the pseudo-monopole magnets are incorporated into the 
flywheel itself. It is also possible that these permanent magnets are 
hybridized with pulse coils so as to provide  very short electrical pulses at 
low duty or  per revolution, in order to prevent immediate demagnetization.

The strange story is starting to get legs… I’m no longer a skeptic but as 
always – demagnetization will be the critical issue.

Jones

From: Dave Roberson

Nice sized flywheel.  Could store a lot of energy so it is going to be hard to 
prove that the magnets are the real source.  I am skeptical.

Dave


From: Terry Blanton

40 kw of mechanical energy

uh-huh.  They sure know what they are talking about.