Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Nigel Dyer]

John Trowbridge reported something similar in his (remarkable) 1907 
paper "High Electromotive Force" about lightning


"We are beginning to realize, however, that 500 volts, accompanied by a 
currrent of between 10 and 20 amperes is sufficient to destroy human 
life.  One compartment of the storage battery that I have described in 
this memoir, - a compartment affording over 800 volts, -short circuited 
through the body of the janitor of the laboratory, was sufficient to 
knock him senseless".


A case of #overlyhonestresults

Nigel

On 01/06/2017 01:56, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Getting back to Franklin, he pioneered many aspects of electricity. In 
one of his less successful experiments, he almost killed himself with 
electricity from a battery, in 1750. It sounds like a cold fusion 
experiment gone bad. He was trying to electrocute a turkey. He wrote:



"I have lately made an Experiment in Electricity that I desire never 
to repeat. Two nights ago being about to kill a Turkey by the Shock 
from two large Glass Jarrs containing as much electrical fire as forty 
common Phials, I inadvertently took the whole thro' my own Arms and Body.


[. . . although self-electrocution had not been his intention, he 
still maintained a scientific interest in the results. . . . 
Nonetheless, he also felt some chagrin over the accident.] "You may 
Communicate this to Mr. Bowdoin As A Caution to him, but do not make 
it mor Publick, for I am Ashamed to have been Guilty of so Notorious A 
Blunder."

Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Jed Rothwell]

 wrote:


> It would have been a lot simpler to have just removed the enter key
> requirement
> from the program and operated it in a loop.
>

I am guessing the program was in assembly language and the vendor did not
provide the source code. It was difficult to tweak assembly object code
back then. Still is, but there are many more tools available.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[mixent]

In reply to  Alan Fletcher's message of Wed, 31 May 2017 17:18:20 -0700:
Hi,


It would have been a lot simpler to have just removed the enter key requirement
from the program and operated it in a loop.

>On Wed, 31 May 2017 18:04:23 -0400
>Jed Rothwell  wrote:
>
>>  Data General and the early microcomputers had toggle switches and LED 
>> readouts of processor states. I never saw anyone use these controls, or read 
>> them for any purpose.
>
>My boss, Milt Meinck, back in the early seventies did!  When designing the 
>chips for the first Singer electonic sewing machine. They had a very early 
>Calma graphics system (Serial #5 or so), based on a DG Nova.  
>
>The needed to queue up a lot of plots overnight. But the system would pause, 
>waiting for the operator to press the "Enter" key to confirm the next plot.
>
>They realized that the LED lights would settle to a particular state.
>
>So they rigged a set of photodiodes over the lights, and a bit of logic 
>circuitry to recognise that light configuration and activate a solenoid which 
>depressed the "Enter" key.
>
>When we bought a Calma system years later, the specification included an 
>"Electronic finger" capability, for queing plots with no operator intervention.
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Jed Rothwell]

Getting back to Franklin, he pioneered many aspects of electricity. In one
of his less successful experiments, he almost killed himself with
electricity from a battery, in 1750. It sounds like a cold fusion
experiment gone bad. He was trying to electrocute a turkey. He wrote:


"I have lately made an Experiment in Electricity that I desire never to
repeat. Two nights ago being about to kill a Turkey by the Shock from two
large Glass Jarrs containing as much electrical fire as forty common
Phials, I inadvertently took the whole thro' my own Arms and Body.

[. . . although self-electrocution had not been his intention, he still
maintained a scientific interest in the results. . . .  Nonetheless, he
also felt some chagrin over the accident.] "You may Communicate this to Mr.
Bowdoin As A Caution to him, but do not make it mor Publick, for I am
Ashamed to have been Guilty of so Notorious A Blunder."

https://www.masshist.org/objects/cabinet/december2002/december2002.htm

His research papers and correspondence about electricity are collected here:

http://www.compadre.org/psrc/franklin/pdf/franklin_electricity_print.pdf

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Alan Fletcher]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 18:04:23 -0400
Jed Rothwell  wrote:

>  Data General and the early microcomputers had toggle switches and LED 
> readouts of processor states. I never saw anyone use these controls, or read 
> them for any purpose.

My boss, Milt Meinck, back in the early seventies did!  When designing the 
chips for the first Singer electonic sewing machine. They had a very early 
Calma graphics system (Serial #5 or so), based on a DG Nova.  

The needed to queue up a lot of plots overnight. But the system would pause, 
waiting for the operator to press the "Enter" key to confirm the next plot.

They realized that the LED lights would settle to a particular state.

So they rigged a set of photodiodes over the lights, and a bit of logic 
circuitry to recognise that light configuration and activate a solenoid which 
depressed the "Enter" key.

When we bought a Calma system years later, the specification included an 
"Electronic finger" capability, for queing plots with no operator intervention.

-- 
Alan Fletcher 

Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Jed Rothwell]

bobcook39...@hotmail.com  wrote:


> I hope you are right about no muon radiation, but I would check LENR
> devices for muon releases and not rely on your authority.
>

It is not my authority; it is the authority of experiments. Obviously,
people have checked for all kinds of radiation. They have not found any.

Obviously, thousands of additional checks will have to be done before cold
fusion reactors can be sold. This will cost billions of dollars. However,
my point stands. There will be no point to installing "billions" or even
dozens of safety features for problems that never occur. All you have to do
is confirm the problem does not happen, and you can stop worrying about it.

The principle works the other way, as well. Theories that fail to predict
anything can be jettisoned. Methods of enhancing the reaction which do not
work need not be implemented. We do not need so-called LENR+ technology
from Rossi because it does not work.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

There is a tried and true method that is used to avoid failure modes. When
> you build your LSI-11 computer systems, you used structured software
> development and unit level debugging. But you stated out a long time ago
> using machine code and fingerboned that machine code into the computer
> using toggle switches. . . .
>
That is true. But no action is need to remove imaginary problems that
experiments prove do not exist.

I used those old computers, and in some cases they did have excessive
safeguards against problems that never occurred. They were over-designed
because the designers did not know what the problems would be. Data General
and the early microcomputers had toggle switches and LED readouts of
processor states. I never saw anyone use these controls, or read them for
any purpose. They were left-overs from earlier models. They were an
unnessary layer, like the spikes on the locomotive driving wheels.

(Note that insufficient friction is a real problem with railroad
locomotives, with wet or icy rails. It was solved by spreading sand on the
rails. Steam locomotives had sand domes for this purpose. So, the problem
was not totally imaginary, but spikes were not needed.)

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jed—

I hope you are right about no muon radiation, but I would check LENR devices 
for muon releases and not rely on your authority.

A good basis for engineers is to assume the devil is in the details; and LENR 
has many details, most os which are not well understood, is understood at all.

Bob Cook

From: Jed Rothwell<mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 11:29 AM
To: Vortex<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com<mailto:janap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

A good engineer will imagine a billion ways in which an invention will fail so 
that invention is built to avoid all those failure modes.
It is not possible to avoid a billion failure modes, or even 100. A product 
designed to avoid too many modes will not work. It will have so many layers of 
protection they will interfere with one another. Early designs for many 
products suffer from this problem. For example, a railroad locomotive design on 
paper (that was never built) had spikes in the wheels, and holes in the rails, 
to prevent slipping. This would never have worked in the real world.

You have to discover first whether a failure is possible, or plausible. If it 
is not, a design to avoid that problem will itself be cause problems, interfere 
with other functions, and add unnessary cost and complexity. For example, 
suppose you imagine that cold fusion causes intense muon radiation. You might 
take steps to avoid damage from this. These steps will cost money, and they may 
interfere with the operation of the machine or cause a safety problem. It is a 
fact easily established that cold fusion does not cause muon radiation. This is 
an imaginary problem. So there is no need for protection against it. Adding 
unnessary protection and unwanted features to a product does not make it 
better. Keep doing this and the product becomes unusable, and even dangerous.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Axil Axil]

There is a tried and true method that is used to avoid failure modes. When
you build your LSI-11 computer systems, you used structured software
development and unit level debugging. But you stated out a long time ago
using machine code and fingerboned that machine code into the computer
using toggle switches. Then you decided to write an assembler for the PDP8
and you debugged that. Next you build a compiler for the PDP11. Then came a
macro language and you wrote your macro set. On and on through countless
operating systems, intel chips, and visual based computer aided development
tools, Java and TCP-IP, Routers, and switches, fiber optics, and
multiplexers, a billion bugs were removed from all those layers, one layer
after the next. Oh how soon you forget. Now you talk into your computer and
I see your words on my computer screen without any spelling errors.

This is how a billion failure modes are removed from a system and a
technology, one at a time over decades and lifetimes.

On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Axil Axil  wrote:
>
>> A good engineer will imagine a billion ways in which an invention will
>> fail so that invention is built to avoid all those failure modes.
>>
> It is not possible to avoid a billion failure modes, or even 100. A
> product designed to avoid too many modes will not work. It will have so
> many layers of protection they will interfere with one another. Early
> designs for many products suffer from this problem. For example, a railroad
> locomotive design on paper (that was never built) had spikes in the wheels,
> and holes in the rails, to prevent slipping. This would never have worked
> in the real world.
>
> You have to discover first whether a failure is possible, or plausible. If
> it is not, a design to avoid that problem will itself be cause problems,
> interfere with other functions, and add unnessary cost and complexity. For
> example, suppose you imagine that cold fusion causes intense muon
> radiation. You might take steps to avoid damage from this. These steps will
> cost money, and they may interfere with the operation of the machine or
> cause a safety problem. It is a fact easily established that cold fusion
> does *not* cause muon radiation. This is an imaginary problem. So there
> is no need for protection against it. Adding unnessary protection and
> unwanted features to a product does not make it better. Keep doing this and
> the product becomes unusable, and even dangerous.
>
> - Jed
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Jed Rothwell]

Axil Axil  wrote:

> A good engineer will imagine a billion ways in which an invention will
> fail so that invention is built to avoid all those failure modes.
>
It is not possible to avoid a billion failure modes, or even 100. A product
designed to avoid too many modes will not work. It will have so many layers
of protection they will interfere with one another. Early designs for many
products suffer from this problem. For example, a railroad locomotive
design on paper (that was never built) had spikes in the wheels, and holes
in the rails, to prevent slipping. This would never have worked in the real
world.

You have to discover first whether a failure is possible, or plausible. If
it is not, a design to avoid that problem will itself be cause problems,
interfere with other functions, and add unnessary cost and complexity. For
example, suppose you imagine that cold fusion causes intense muon
radiation. You might take steps to avoid damage from this. These steps will
cost money, and they may interfere with the operation of the machine or
cause a safety problem. It is a fact easily established that cold fusion
does *not* cause muon radiation. This is an imaginary problem. So there is
no need for protection against it. Adding unnessary protection and unwanted
features to a product does not make it better. Keep doing this and the
product becomes unusable, and even dangerous.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Axil Axil]

What Ben said about finding the truth in nature is valid, but finding what
will work in Engineering is a different issue.

A good engineer will imagine a billion ways in which an invention will fail
so that invention is built to avoid all those failure modes. The disciples
of Cassandra make the best engineers.

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> A Certain Person with a Vivid Imagination often makes Bold Claims about
> cold fusion. These claims are not borne out by the literature, or by
> theory. They are, as far as I know, imaginary. He is the only one who
> believes them.
>
>
> Okay, there are many people like that in this field.
>
>
> Anyway, in answer to this person, I looked up a quote from Benjamin
> Franklin:
>
>
> "Perhaps the history of the errors of mankind, all things considered, is
> more valuable and interesting than that of their discoveries. Truth is
> uniform and narrow; it constantly exists, and does not seem to require so
> much an active energy, as a passive aptitude of soul in order to encounter
> it. But error is endlessly diversified; it has no reality, but is the pure
> and simple creation of the mind that invents it. In this field, the soul
> has room enough to expand herself, to display all her boundless faculties,
> and all her beautiful and interesting extravagancies and absurdities."
>
>
> —Benjamin Franklin, Report of Dr. Benjamin Franklin, and Other
> Commissioners, Charged by the King of France, with the Examination of the
> Animal Magnetism, as Now Practiced in Paris (1784)
>
>
> (People unfamiliar with his biography may not realize that Franklin was
> one of history's leading scientists. He was an FRS and he made fundamental
> contributions such as discovering positive and negative electricity, and
> inventing lighting rods and the Franklin stove.)
>
>
> - Jed
>
>
>
>

[Vo]:Great quote from Benjamin Franklin

[Jed Rothwell]

A Certain Person with a Vivid Imagination often makes Bold Claims about
cold fusion. These claims are not borne out by the literature, or by
theory. They are, as far as I know, imaginary. He is the only one who
believes them.


Okay, there are many people like that in this field.


Anyway, in answer to this person, I looked up a quote from Benjamin
Franklin:


"Perhaps the history of the errors of mankind, all things considered, is
more valuable and interesting than that of their discoveries. Truth is
uniform and narrow; it constantly exists, and does not seem to require so
much an active energy, as a passive aptitude of soul in order to encounter
it. But error is endlessly diversified; it has no reality, but is the pure
and simple creation of the mind that invents it. In this field, the soul
has room enough to expand herself, to display all her boundless faculties,
and all her beautiful and interesting extravagancies and absurdities."


—Benjamin Franklin, Report of Dr. Benjamin Franklin, and Other
Commissioners, Charged by the King of France, with the Examination of the
Animal Magnetism, as Now Practiced in Paris (1784)


(People unfamiliar with his biography may not realize that Franklin was one
of history's leading scientists. He was an FRS and he made fundamental
contributions such as discovering positive and negative electricity, and
inventing lighting rods and the Franklin stove.)


- Jed