Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
Often it seems: the same materials, when formed in nano-layers as opposed to a mix - an alloy - have unexpected large physical differences from each other, such as hardness, as here https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/1.2054717/pdf I wonder if the electrical conductivity of a layered substrate of Cu-Ni could be greatly altered as well ?
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
Nickel alone is not very well suited to work in cold fusion. Advanced SO(4) physics modelling (for current setups) did show that only a few side reaction can deliver a reasonable amount of energy (about 2MeV/Ni) what also was measured by Parkhomov's long time run. We did elaborate some enhancement paths for the Ni-H fusion but it is not our current research focus. If others want to try - what needs some serious funding - we can teach. In general cold fusion with Deuterium is much easier to do and this path is more or less fully understood (I documented some basics on researchgate https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356972251_A_new_experimental_path_to_nucleosynthesis?_sg%5B1%5D=). The entry point for deep material /D2 research is about 200k $ just for material. We started with preparation in August 2021 and the material will be ready around June 2022. We could use some support from people with a deep background in electro chemistry/physics of thin surfaces. My target always is to publish all important methods before trolls can patent them as I already did with the 2017 (now open) patent that covers most basic CF stuff. J.W. On 19.03.2022 00:57, Jones Beene wrote: The fact that Celani had demonstrated modest but well-publicized positive results a decade ago - using an alloy of copper and nickel as catalyst is probably important in understanding what is going on today with the Clean Planet technology. Clean Planet apparently used that information from Celani to optimize and boost whatever thermal gain reaction is happening. Trial and error - not theory. Very Edisonian approach. They merely improved what had already been demonstrated as possible - and it could have been simply luck and persistence - instead of having a correct understand of the real mechanism, which still eludes us. It is possible that even better results could now be engineered with additional layers maybe even including Pd or Au - we do not know what trials CP have done to get this far - and have discarded along the way, IOW by starting with a small gain and modifying the structural options - this time by using thin alternating layers of copper and nickel as your catalyst - instead of an alloy (a mix) - they are able to turn an interesting but minimal reaction and anomaly into what we hope is leading to a commercial product. Robin wrote I find the necessity of combining Cu & Ni somewhat puzzling, though some neutron exchange mechanism mediated by Hydrogen might make sense. I wonder if it works with either Ni or Cu alone? Using alternating very thin sheets implies that's it's a surface phenomenon, that occurs where the two different metals come into contact with one another. > It looks to me like the Clean Planet group of Japan is the closest to getting an actual device to market. -- Jürg Wyttenbach Bifangstr. 22 8910 Affoltern am Albis +41 44 760 14 18 +41 79 246 36 06
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 18 Mar 2022 23:57:01 + (UTC): Hi, I wonder if thermal photons could accelerate ballistic protons traveling between the planes of the crystal lattice to energies sufficient to produce fusion? (Now that's far fetched, even for me! :) [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
The fact that Celani had demonstrated modest but well-publicized positive results a decade ago - using an alloy of copper and nickel as catalyst is probably important in understanding what is going on today with the Clean Planet technology. Clean Planet apparently used that information from Celani to optimize and boost whatever thermal gain reaction is happening. Trial and error - not theory. Very Edisonian approach. They merely improved what had already been demonstrated as possible - and it could have been simply luck and persistence - instead of having a correct understand of the real mechanism, which still eludes us. It is possible that even better results could now be engineered with additional layers maybe even including Pd or Au - we do not know what trials CP have done to get this far - and have discarded along the way, IOW by starting with a small gain and modifying the structural options - this time by using thin alternating layers of copper and nickel as your catalyst - instead of an alloy (a mix) - they are able to turn an interesting but minimal reaction and anomaly into what we hope is leading to a commercial product. Robin wrote I find the necessity of combining Cu & Ni somewhat puzzling, though some neutron exchange mechanism mediated by Hydrogen might make sense. I wonder if it works with either Ni or Cu alone? Using alternating very thin sheets implies that's it's a surface phenomenon, that occurs where the two different metals come into contact with one another. > It looks to me like the Clean Planet group of Japan is the closest to getting > an actual device to market.
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 18 Mar 2022 13:53:38 + (UTC): Hi, I find the necessity of combining Cu & Ni somewhat puzzling, though some neutron exchange mechanism mediated by Hydrogen might make sense. I wonder if it works with either Ni or Cu alone? Using alternating very thin sheets implies that's it's a surface phenomenon, that occurs where the two different metals come into contact with one another. [snip] >It looks to me like the Clean Planet group of Japan is the closest to getting >an actual device to market. That factor is the most important detail for us in >understanding how an emerging hydrogen economy will materialize. > >Quantum hydrogen QH uses neither Pd or D2 and its underlying science is still >a mystery... yet the results are there for all to see. > >Yes, the hydrogen-nickel-copper combination - the quantum heat technology, >should be considered to be part of the science of LENR despite the apparent >lack of nuclear fusion per se (though there could be an unexpected connection >which is eventually discovered). Here is their page >https://www.cleanplanet.co.jp/en/science/ [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Fri, 18 Mar 2022 11:43:14 -0400: Hi, [snip] >https://www.amazon.com/SKS-RideAir-Portable-Air-Tank/dp/B01MCWGREM > >Which, if I have used an on-line calculator correctly, comes to 0.020 g/mL, >or 12 g of air. Hydrogen weighs 7% of air, so that's 0.84 g. > >I think it would be easy to ensure that any gas leak goes into the >atmosphere and does not enter the passenger cabin. Hydrogen is lighter than >air and would quickly go out from under the hood of the engine compartment. True, but aircon units in cars can draw outside air into the passenger compartment. The vehicle would need to be designed such that any leakage occurred downstream of the air intake, to ensure that Hydrogen wasn't sucked in. Anything more than 4% Hydrogen in air is flammable, and ignited Hydrogen in a passenger compartment, even if not deadly in itself, would almost certainly result in a traffic accident. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
Robin wrote: I thought I just read in one of the papers recently posted on Vortex that > preparation of the surface involved oxidizing the metal. That would make sense if reacting it with Hydrogen resulted in > the creation of nascent water molecules that > then act as Hydrino catalysts. I believe this is done during the preparation stage. After that, they pump out all oxygen and other gases several times, and add only the purest hydrogen they can get. > This assumes that the Hydrogen is stored in a Hydride. Some may use > bottled Hydrogen. > There is also the potential problem that escaping Hydrogen could > accumulate somewhere, mixed with air forming an > explosive mixture. If it happens to accumulate in the passenger > compartment (e.g. carried in by the aircon), the > occupants may not notice until it is too late (Hydrogen is odorless). > Sometimes smoking kills instantly. > For a gas loaded cell, I think some hydrogen will be in the hydride, and some in the space between the hydride metal and the walls (which should be small). Plus some hydrogen might be needed in a small tank, to be added as hydrogen slowly leaks out of the cell. That may not be needed. Recharging the cell once a year at a dealership might be sufficient. I do not know how gas-tight a cell can be. The tanks of pure hydrogen I have seen in laboratories sit around for years without losing pressure, as far as I know. In any case, the make-up gas tank would be very small, about the size of compressed air tanks used by bicyclists. Like this one that holds 600 mL, 16 bars max: https://www.amazon.com/SKS-RideAir-Portable-Air-Tank/dp/B01MCWGREM Which, if I have used an on-line calculator correctly, comes to 0.020 g/mL, or 12 g of air. Hydrogen weighs 7% of air, so that's 0.84 g. I think it would be easy to ensure that any gas leak goes into the atmosphere and does not enter the passenger cabin. Hydrogen is lighter than air and would quickly go out from under the hood of the engine compartment. The heat engine portion of a cold fusion powered vehicle would probably have low Carnot efficiency, so it would need a cooling fan. This could easily ensure any gas leak is blown away. (I say it would have low Carnot efficiency because keeping the temperature at a moderate level, such as 300°C, would prolong the life of the equipment, and there is no point to saving fuel by increasing Carnot efficiency.)
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
The problem in forecasting an actual use and implementation of 'new hydrogen' technologies is that the first implementation may not look very much like present expectations, based on the past 33 year history... even though one tech has led directly to the other, It looks to me like the Clean Planet group of Japan is the closest to getting an actual device to market. That factor is the most important detail for us in understanding how an emerging hydrogen economy will materialize. If not Clean Planet (or their licensee) - who else is near market? Mills has true-believers, but still looks hopeless to me - at least for transportation or markets that will get us off of fossil fuel. For one thing CP has the backing of the Japanese automotive industry, and that is HUGE. In the USA, one worrisome thing is that the genius Elon Musk is a no-show. Is he always correct? He would have a stake in BLP if he thought it had a chance. Moreover, the Storms' insight is probably not relevant to the initial product - unless CP is holding back a few details out of concern over IP. Bottom line - it is a mistake to insist that the initial variety of LENR is one which MUST be involve deuterium and palladium. Quantum hydrogen QH uses neither Pd or D2 and its underlying science is still a mystery... yet the results are there for all to see. Yes, the hydrogen-nickel-copper combination - the quantum heat technology, should be considered to be part of the science of LENR despite the apparent lack of nuclear fusion per se (though there could be an unexpected connection which is eventually discovered). Here is their page https://www.cleanplanet.co.jp/en/science/ Jones Robin wrote: >I thought I just read in one of the papers recently posted on Vortex that >preparation of the surface involved oxidizing>the metal. That would make sense >if reacting it with Hydrogen resulted in the creation of nascent water >molecules that then act as Hydrino catalysts. Mills also does this to create >nascent water molecules to catalyze Hydrino shrinkage... What I was getting at >here is that some Oxygen in the Hydrogen may not always be a problem.
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
In reply to Robin's message of Fri, 18 Mar 2022 16:41:55 +1100: Hi, [snip] >I thought I just read in one of the papers recently posted on Vortex that >preparation of the surface involved oxidizing >the metal. That would make sense if reacting it with Hydrogen resulted in the >creation of nascent water molecules that >then act as Hydrino catalysts. Mills also does this to create nascent water >molecules to catalyze Hydrino shrinkage. [snip] What I was getting at here is that some Oxygen in the Hydrogen may not always be a problem. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2022 22:05:08 -0400: Hi, [snip] >Well, if it is a problem, I suppose they could use 20 g instead of 100. The >point is, you only need 1 or 2 g per year. Also, bear in mind there is no >oxygen in the cell. It cannot explode unless the cell leaks or is >punctured. It is not likely all the gas will come out at once, especially >since much of it will be absorbed in a hydride. It takes a while to degass. This assumes that the Hydrogen is stored in a Hydride. Some may use bottled Hydrogen. There is also the potential problem that escaping Hydrogen could accumulate somewhere, mixed with air forming an explosive mixture. If it happens to accumulate in the passenger compartment (e.g. carried in by the aircon), the occupants may not notice until it is too late (Hydrogen is odorless). Sometimes smoking kills instantly. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2022 23:06:56 -0400: Hi, [snip] >A potential problem with this idea is that the hydrogen (or deuterium) has >to be highly pure. When you split water, you usually end up with impurities >and some oxygen mixed in with the hydrogen. You have to use high tech >equipment to purify it. You probably would not want to put water into a >cold fusion engine and then split it on demand, in situ. I thought I just read in one of the papers recently posted on Vortex that preparation of the surface involved oxidizing the metal. That would make sense if reacting it with Hydrogen resulted in the creation of nascent water molecules that then act as Hydrino catalysts. Mills also does this to create nascent water molecules to catalyze Hydrino shrinkage. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
A potential problem with this idea is that the hydrogen (or deuterium) has to be highly pure. When you split water, you usually end up with impurities and some oxygen mixed in with the hydrogen. You have to use high tech equipment to purify it. You probably would not want to put water into a cold fusion engine and then split it on demand, in situ.
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
Robin wrote: > A gram of Hydrogen represents the explosive power of about 30 gm of TNT. > Several hundred grams of Hydrogen would equate > to about 9 kg of TNT. That's a little more than a pop under the hood. > Well, if it is a problem, I suppose they could use 20 g instead of 100. The point is, you only need 1 or 2 g per year. Also, bear in mind there is no oxygen in the cell. It cannot explode unless the cell leaks or is punctured. It is not likely all the gas will come out at once, especially since much of it will be absorbed in a hydride. It takes a while to degass. I think it would be someone less likely to cause harm than the acid sealed in a lead acid battery. Granted, such batteries cause 22,000 injuries per year, but I think mainly from explosions, which should be rare or completely absent with cold fusion cells, by the time we make them work. https://trid.trb.org/view/786316
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Thu, 17 Mar 2022 18:36:32 -0400: Hi, A gram of Hydrogen represents the explosive power of about 30 gm of TNT. Several hundred grams of Hydrogen would equate to about 9 kg of TNT. That's a little more than a pop under the hood. (This is because Hydrogen is so light weight. Calculation based on burning the Hydrogen to form water.) Of course, one could also argue that carrying around gallons of gasoline isn't safe. [snip] >Do you mean the hydrogen or deuterium fuel? Are you worried it might >explode? An automobile would only fuse a gram of hydrogen per year. You >need more than that in the reactor, but the total amount would be a few >hundred grams. It would be locked into an airtight cell. Even if it leaked >out, it would produce a small pop under the hood. It would could cause no >damage. > >Maybe you mean there is some other use for hydrogen in a cold fusion >powered device? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk
Re: [Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
Jones Beene wrote: > Most viable concepts for commercial vehicles which would utilize LENR need > to have efficient water-splitting as part of the package. Compressed > hydrogen gas as the alternative - that is probably a non-starter for safety > reasons, > Do you mean the hydrogen or deuterium fuel? Are you worried it might explode? An automobile would only fuse a gram of hydrogen per year. You need more than that in the reactor, but the total amount would be a few hundred grams. It would be locked into an airtight cell. Even if it leaked out, it would produce a small pop under the hood. It would could cause no damage. Maybe you mean there is some other use for hydrogen in a cold fusion powered device?
[Vo]:Highest efficiency water splitter
This is from a new Australian company - Hysata. https://newatlas.com/energy/hysata-efficient-hydrogen-electrolysis/ This could be an important step forward for LENR as well. It could be a bit more than an incremental progression. Most viable concepts for commercial vehicles which would utilize LENR need to have efficient water-splitting as part of the package. Compressed hydrogen gas as the alternative - that is probably a non-starter for safety reasons,
