Re: [Vo]:Passi22 -- Reply of Italian Secretary of State
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com wrote: This is actually an amazing comment. It explicitly recognizes LENR as it is: established experimentally as real, but without any universally accepted theory as to how it operates. Various Italian government agencies explicitly recognized LENR years ago. That is why the ENEA sponsored ICCF15, along with the Italian Physics and Chemistry societies. Unfortunately, there is still a great deal of opposition because of academic politics, and there is little or no funding for the research. Recognition is tepid at best. It is not strong enough to overcome the opposition. It is only a little better than nothing. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Passi22 -- Reply of Italian Secretary of State
This is actually an amazing comment. It explicitly recognizes LENR as it is: established experimentally as real, but without any universally accepted theory as to how it operates. It points out the obvious problems with Rossi, and Rossi's extreme response to this is typical for him. Rossi quibbles over what was said about gammas. The core of the warning from the Italian Secretary of State remains: there has been no independent verification. There are no reliable scientific and technical findings, and no amount of raving by Rossi can change that. If he wanted to change it, he easily could, but instead of remedying the situation, he just continues to rant and make more and more unsubustantiated claims. He's playing a very dangerous game. If his E-Cat is for real, at this point, and if it did actually threaten major moneyed interests, he and it could be made to disappear, and it would seem to be what he's made it appear to be: a huge scam. The most likely explanation for this, setting aside pure fraud, is that Rossi is still struggling to make the effect reliable and stable and, as well, reliably persistent. No good if the E-Cat works for a few weeks, then stops. And it's easy for an inventor to believe that perfection of the product is just around the corner, and to start to fudge results to maintain plausibility. All for a good cause, of course. At 04:06 PM 5/13/2012, Alan Fletcher wrote: http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/05/risposta-del-sottosegretario-claudio-de.html Google translate looks fine : Answer to Question 4 to 14,595 by Zamparutti Betrandi, Baker, Flour, Coscioni, Mecacci, the Turkish 23 January 2012 ( here the text of the question ) . must first be noted that more than twenty years away from the experiment of Fleischmann and Pons, research on so-called cold fusion now known as the study of nuclear reactions at low energy, has made ââsubstantial progress, on both experimental and theoretical, providing a field of nuclear physics of condensed matter. Currently, however, there is still a theory universally accepted, such as to explain the phenomenon of low energy nuclear reactions by making, therefore, many studies still needed to clarify the theoretical aspects and ensure standard levels of reproducibility of experiments and be able to extract usable energy. In fact, the engineering phase of the process is far enough in time, since it lacks a comprehensive definition of the physical phenomenon that forms the basis of the process where the reproducibility is essential. At the present state of research on low energy nuclear reactions, reproducibility, although improved over the last years of the last century, is still unsatisfactory. In addition, research on the phenomena in question is still limited to laboratory level since the day the most successful experiments conducted to date have detected only developments of heat for power equal to a fraction of a watt. The study and research so far conducted in this field in our country from a position of excellence, is the tool that has allowed the identification of lines of business that can produce consistent results and interesting from a scientific perspective. In fact, industry studies, both theoretical and experimental investigations, conducted in the field of materials science have led to increased control over the phenomenon in question by creating the conditions for its full understanding. These results, together with interest all'indubbio that research on cold fusion assumes with respect to potential future energy applications of the phenomenon - although, presumably, not on a large scale - suggest to take every opportunity to ensure the continuity of the initiatives undertaken in the field. As for the catalyst of energy called E-Cat - Italian engineer Andrea Rossi invention that could revolutionize the global energy system since it can produce energy at an economic level and clean compared to other market sources - has become evident that many doubts arise on the device due to the fact that the mode of operation have not been disclosed by the inventor. In fact, both the substantive aspects of the fuel composition, the internal structure of the catalyst are still covered by trade secret. Currently you do not have any explanation, much less of experiments and articles on international journals such as to show how we obtain the energy detected by the measurement systems, thus allowing third parties to replicate the same experiments. Moreover, except for the patent issued for Italy, not all appropriate patents have been granted to the inventor, in particular lack the grant of the European level. Among other things, it should be noted in this regard, that because the description of the invention presented by Ing. Rossi aims to achieve the aforementioned patents do not contain the secret catalyst that would allow the device to
Re: [Vo]:Passi22 -- Reply of Italian Secretary of State
Andrea Rossi May 14th, 2012 at 8:59 AM Dear Antonella, Dear Giovanni Guerrini: The false statements contained in the answer that the Italian Government guy ( a deputy minister !!!) has given are a clear signal. If you analyse the language and compare the evident lack of specific information of this guy with the arrogance of his conclusions ( for example: the patent will not be granted in Europe, and he knows nothing of the pending patents, or Rossi in some occasion said his apparatus emits radiations, in other occasions said the contrary, which is false because I always said that no radiations are emitted to the external of the apparatuses from the E-Cats, and I always said that the low level gamma rays inside the E-Cat are turned into heat) and compare the arrogance of the statements with the evident lack of information,as I was saying, the signal is clear: lobbies bound to the government have acted. Add the fact that a person, financed by the taxpayer, is blowing on the fire to try to stop us to promote more public funding to state owned compamies that produced only chatters in 20 years of work, shake the all and the resulting cocktail is: better we stay away from there, if I want not to get stuck in the mud. We will sell in Italy our production, but will work safe in the USA and, probably, in Sweden, where we are organizing a strong organization. Warm Regards, A.R.
Re: [Vo]:Passi22 -- Reply of Italian Secretary of State
Perhaps the deputy minister of snakes and clowns? I've totally lost interest in Rossi says. Too many lies, evasions and misdirections and even 7 months after the October 2011 demo (that he claimed was a commercial product he would deliver to a customer until he was caught out) he is still doing nothing to improve his credibility. his latest claims about delivering something in July to some unspecified military customer is just more of the same deliberately unverifiable BS as far as I can see. As has been noted by so many he could remove all doubt with 1 or 2 days work on a simple but properly instrumented black box public demo. That he doesn't and yet finds the many hours required to respond to comments and activities of competitors does nothing for his credibility, particularly when such a demo would provide such an easy route to enormous riches. Quite simply he should put up or shut up. There are so many others in the LENR field doing good RD without hyperbole that I think are far more worthy of our attention and interest. I wish the negative LENR PR machine that is Rossi would just go away and leave the field to progress in a more scientific way. On 14 May 2012 17:33, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: Andrea Rossi May 14th, 2012 at 8:59 AMhttp://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=53#comment-232343 Dear Antonella, Dear Giovanni Guerrini: The false statements contained in the answer that the Italian Government guy ( a deputy minister !!!) has given are a clear signal. If you analyse the language and compare the evident lack of specific information of this guy with the arrogance of his conclusions ( for example: “the patent will not be granted in Europe”, and he knows nothing of the pending patents, or ” Rossi in some occasion said his apparatus emits radiations, in other occasions said the contrary”, which is false because I always said that no radiations are emitted to the external of the apparatuses from the E-Cats, and I always said that the low level gamma rays inside the E-Cat are turned into heat) and compare the arrogance of the statements with the evident lack of information,as I was saying, the signal is clear: lobbies bound to the government have acted. Add the fact that a person, financed by the taxpayer, is blowing on the fire to try to stop us to promote more public funding to state owned compamies that produced only chatters in 20 years of work, shake the all and the resulting cocktail is: better we stay away from there, if I want not to get stuck in the mud. We will sell in Italy our production, but will work safe in the USA and, probably, in Sweden, where we are organizing a strong organization. Warm Regards, A.R.
[Vo]:Passi22 -- Reply of Italian Secretary of State
http://22passi.blogspot.it/2012/05/risposta-del-sottosegretario-claudio-de.html Google translate looks fine : Answer to Question 4 to 14,595 by Zamparutti Betrandi, Baker, Flour, Coscioni, Mecacci, the Turkish 23 January 2012 ( here the text of the question ) . must first be noted that more than twenty years away from the experiment of Fleischmann and Pons, research on so-called cold fusion now known as the study of nuclear reactions at low energy, has made substantial progress, on both experimental and theoretical, providing a field of nuclear physics of condensed matter. Currently, however, there is still a theory universally accepted, such as to explain the phenomenon of low energy nuclear reactions by making, therefore, many studies still needed to clarify the theoretical aspects and ensure standard levels of reproducibility of experiments and be able to extract usable energy. In fact, the engineering phase of the process is far enough in time, since it lacks a comprehensive definition of the physical phenomenon that forms the basis of the process where the reproducibility is essential. At the present state of research on low energy nuclear reactions, reproducibility, although improved over the last years of the last century, is still unsatisfactory. In addition, research on the phenomena in question is still limited to laboratory level since the day the most successful experiments conducted to date have detected only developments of heat for power equal to a fraction of a watt. The study and research so far conducted in this field in our country from a position of excellence, is the tool that has allowed the identification of lines of business that can produce consistent results and interesting from a scientific perspective. In fact, industry studies, both theoretical and experimental investigations, conducted in the field of materials science have led to increased control over the phenomenon in question by creating the conditions for its full understanding. These results, together with interest all'indubbio that research on cold fusion assumes with respect to potential future energy applications of the phenomenon - although, presumably, not on a large scale - suggest to take every opportunity to ensure the continuity of the initiatives undertaken in the field. As for the catalyst of energy called E-Cat - Italian engineer Andrea Rossi invention that could revolutionize the global energy system since it can produce energy at an economic level and clean compared to other market sources - has become evident that many doubts arise on the device due to the fact that the mode of operation have not been disclosed by the inventor. In fact, both the substantive aspects of the fuel composition, the internal structure of the catalyst are still covered by trade secret. Currently you do not have any explanation, much less of experiments and articles on international journals such as to show how we obtain the energy detected by the measurement systems, thus allowing third parties to replicate the same experiments. Moreover, except for the patent issued for Italy, not all appropriate patents have been granted to the inventor, in particular lack the grant of the European level. Among other things, it should be noted in this regard, that because the description of the invention presented by Ing. Rossi aims to achieve the aforementioned patents do not contain the secret catalyst that would allow the device to produce energy, iI is intrinsically affected by the patent invalid. Among other things, in fact, although, as reported by the questioners, the physicist Francesco Celani during the conference dell'ISEO-WSEC (UN), held in Geneva during 10-12 January 2012 , has criticized NASA for having hidden over twenty years the results obtained by cold fusion experiments conducted by the year 1989, however the same occasion, said that statements referring to Rossi ' E-cat should be evaluated with extreme care and caution, awaiting verification independent, to be carried out as quickly as possible. For what concerns also the marketing of ' E-cat , to ascertain whether the device is able to produce less radioactivity. On this subject, in fact, there are various and conflicting statements by the inventor. Occasionally, the Mr. Smith stated that within his unit does not produce nuclear reactions, implicitly excluding, the device can be considered a nuclear reactor. In others, however, the engineer stated that the ' E-cat produces only the weak gamma rays that can be easily shielded with a layer of lead. This will not be enough to make the device easy to marketing a product. It must be considered to be international with the national legislation ( Legislative Decree 17 March 1995, n. 230 ) establish very strict rules regarding the use and possession of devices that generate high-energy radiation. It follows that the procedure for obtaining the
Re: [Vo]:Passi22 -- Reply of Italian Secretary of State
On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: In light of the foregoing, therefore, it is believed that only when you can have more reliable scientific and technical findings, it will be possible to assess the possible practical applications of the device in question and in general a cd. Cold fusion on a small scale. THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Prof. Claudio De Vincenti) Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!? T
Re: [Vo]:Passi22 -- Reply of Italian Secretary of State
Seems Italian Govt doesn't have any better info than we do, but they have taken the time to look at it, and see the obvious flaws in Rossi's visible efforts. On 13 May 2012 23:20, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 5:06 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: In light of the foregoing, therefore, it is believed that only when you can have more reliable scientific and technical findings, it will be possible to assess the possible practical applications of the device in question and in general a cd. Cold fusion on a small scale. THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Prof. Claudio De Vincenti) Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!? T
