At 11:39 AM 7/30/2011, Ron Kita wrote:
Greetings Vortex,
IF my memory is correct there was a hot water test on the Rossi Device.
Also, it appears the the results of the hot water test were. OK.
Well, that's, shall we say, optimistic. It's true, in a way. That is
Levi claims to have done a hot water test with Rossi. This was the
February test.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Catalyzer#Bologna.2C_February_2011_test
There are problems with this test.
Probably because this wasn't a public demonstration, being only
witnessed by Levi and Rossi, Krivit doesn't much cover it. Most of
what we know about this test comes from the NyTeknik report on it.
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3108242.ece
There is no data. There are only Levi's general testimony and
conclusions as to power. The test conditions were practally opposite
to those with the other demonstrations, which depend, for what is
claimed about them, on an assumption or claim that all the water is
vaporized. Yet vaporization of all the water is not verified, there
is no sign that anyone collected the necessary data.
However, Levi reacted with extreme hostility when questioned. Did
Krivit insult him and his University? Well, here is the problem.
Levi made a huge mistake. For the other tests, he relied upon steam
quality measurements by Galantini, when it's obvious that neither
Levi or Galantini knew how to measure steam quality, they used a
completely bogus method. Krivits' questions might have been clumsily
stated, it's not impossible. Krivit had some idea that measurements
might have been made on a volume basis, and that's what he was asking
about. He wasn't really thoroughly familiar with the issues, for
whatever reason. He might have seemed ignorant. But Levi was,
himself, out to lunch, and angry that anyone might question his expertise.
And he was clearly naive and not aware of the real problems.
Nevertheless, the February test, if the data were provided, was a far
better approached. But it went too far! I.e., in the other
demonstrations, the phase transition of water to steam was used, when
it's actually quite difficult to verify full vaporization. So it had
been suggested to use a lower temperature. Instead of boiling the
water, how about not allowing it to boil at all? Then the only
calculation needed would be the simple formula for the involved
temperature rise.
But instead of simply increasing the flow rate from 4 g/sec, to a
level that would keep the temperature below boiling, they increased
it to 1 liter per second, a 250X increase. Levi reports a rise of
water temperature from 7 C. to 40 C, and calculates power for this as 130 kW.
The reactor with such high output would be operating way beyond
self-heating mode. It would already be beyond control by a mere 1.25
kW being withdrawn, and control by cooling would be impossible, they
were already running very high water flow, they'd not be able to
obtain higher flow. This is really inconsistent with everything else
we've been told about the E-cat. There is thermal resistance between
the reaction chamber and the cooling chamber, there must be, because
in the normal E-Cat operation, the reaction chamber is at about 450
C, Rossi has claimed, whereas the cooling chamber is at 100 C.
More likely: there was a temperature differential inside the e-Cat.
They are not measuring outflow temperature, they are measuring
temperature in the Chimney, which may have temperature
differentials within it. As to steady state power, if it was 20 kW as
Levi claims, the temperature increase of the water must have been
about 5 C. This would be very vulnerable to errors, such as
temperature differential. Was input water temperature continuously
monitored? Etc.
If this demonstration really did work as claimed, it would indicate
very high danger of thermal runaway. Ineed, it could be estimated
that the temperature of the reaction chamber would go to roughly 4000
degrees. Not pretty. Not the kind of thing you'd want to happen if
this was close.
Yeah, if you completely trust Levi, sounds great. But where is the
data? Scientific reports are not based on simple trust my conclusions!
A far simpler test that would have allowed using the steam procedure:
run two identical E-cats, one without hydrogen. Keep the input power
the same for both. (A device for doing this would be to put them in
series, if the voltages are adequate. If not, then the voltages
should be verified to be the same.) Rossi has declined to do
controls, demonstrating his complete misunderstanding of the
scientific method, studying the effect of a single variable. He says
We already know what will happen with hydrogen: nothing. That could
be the way an investigational engineer would think, but when it comes
to demonstrating the reality of an effect, controls are essential.
The lack of controls leave us wondering about the source of the
