Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program?
On Sun, 2011-12-04 at 18:44 -0800, Mary Yugo wrote: Rossi lied when he said he was self-funded when in fact he had received funds from Ampenergo. Either that or Casserino lied. Rossi had a reason to lie, Casserino did not. There is no Ampenergo; it's just a paper company, like Leonardo corp. If so, where is it physically located? Because here in New Hampshire, it's just a name associated with Karl Norwood. Craig
Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program?
Not in LENR I want to tell. Peter On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com wrote: We have the great luck that we don't know liers. LOL *From:* Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com *Sent:* Sunday, December 04, 2011 7:43 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:can we use such a program? We have the great luck that we don't know liers. Thank you for signalling the book. peter On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 8:40 PM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote: We're not there yet.. but a 100% accurate lie detector would change everything. This book is a fun read on the subject: The Truth Machine by James Halperin http://www.amazon.com/Truth-Machine-Speculative-Novel/dp/0345410564 - Brad Software That Listens for Lies: -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program?
Yes he is, but I have read many messages here saying he is NOT lying and I thought I have prejudices against him for the following story: He claims to be the discoverer of an absolutely new and original Ni-H LENR method and denies any connection with the achievements of the past. Newton has used a rather clumsy metaphor *“If I have seen further it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants”* (don’t try this it is risky even for acrobats- but metaphors have not much to do with practice and common sense they are poetical and symbolistic. Andrea Rossi on the contrary, answered to my question on Krivit’s blog saying: *“My process has nothing to do with the process of Piantelli, The proof is that I am making operating reactors; he is not.”* I was shocked, did not believed this statement and disliked strongly the logic and the ethics on which it is based. But it is probably my fault and bias. Peter On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com wrote: Not in LENR I want to tell. So Rossi is not in LENR? *From:* Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com *Sent:* Sunday, December 04, 2011 8:11 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program? Not in LENR I want to tell. Peter On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.comwrote: We have the great luck that we don't know liers. LOL *From:* Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com *Sent:* Sunday, December 04, 2011 7:43 PM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:can we use such a program? We have the great luck that we don't know liers. Thank you for signalling the book. peter On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 8:40 PM, ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.comwrote: We're not there yet.. but a 100% accurate lie detector would change everything. This book is a fun read on the subject: The Truth Machine by James Halperin http://www.amazon.com/Truth-Machine-Speculative-Novel/dp/0345410564 - Brad Software That Listens for Lies: -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program?
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.comwrote: Yes he is, but I have read many messages here saying he is NOT lying and I thought I have prejudices against him for the following story: Rossi is lying and we have some facts about it. In an interview (March) he said that he’s not asking money and that he will be paid ONLY when the 1MW reactor was delivered. In the same time, he asked a lot of money to Defkalion for his “technology”, with a deadline around June. Rossi also received money from Ampenergo as per this article in NyTeknik and the related interview: http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3179019.ece But another interesting question is what he may received from secret investors. He gets offers every day on his blog and even on other people's blogs! One can only imagine what he gets offered in private.
Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program?
Mattia Rizzi mattia.ri...@gmail.com wrote: But yeah, now comes Jed Rothwell saying that this is not lying and that every businessman like Edison and Jobs done that. Yeah. I have said repeatedly that I know nothing about Rossi's business affairs, and I have no idea whether he is lying or not. I said that as far as I know know, he has never lied about the engineering aspects of his machines. Perhaps he has, but I have not caught him. Please do not distort what I say. I know nothing about his business dealings. Frankly, I do not care about them, and I do not want to know. I think people should mind their own business and stop asking nosy questions about Rossi. I have advised him to do things differently and be more open, but I have never asked him about contracts or business or anything of that nature. Regarding truth and lies -- Defkalion says they have the technology, and Rossi says they do not. Clearly, one is lying, or the other is, or they both are. They cannot both be telling the truth. I will not speculate about who is telling the truth in this matter. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program?
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: But another interesting question is what he may received from secret investors. He gets offers every day on his blog and even on other people's blogs! One can only imagine what he gets offered in private. Yes, one can imagine, but as Fats Waller said, one never knows, do one? I don't find this interesting. I think it pointless. You know nothing about Rossi's business, so this is mere empty speculation, gossip, and snooping into other people's private business. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program?
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: But another interesting question is what he may received from secret investors. He gets offers every day on his blog and even on other people's blogs! One can only imagine what he gets offered in private. Yes, one can imagine, but as Fats Waller said, one never knows, do one? I don't find this interesting. I think it pointless. You know nothing about Rossi's business, so this is mere empty speculation, gossip, and snooping into other people's private business. You're entitled to your opinion but I think Rossi has made himself a public figure. Also, catching him in obvious lies, such as that he is entirely self funded, is legitimate. After all, Rossi uses that claim to help him convince people that his E-cat really works. Rossi may have been caught lying about technical and engineering issues in the Stable! Stable! video. At least he was lying by omission because he never admitted adjusting the heater power during a run and especially not during a run which needed less anemic steam generation. Rossi probably also lied about self-destruct mechanisms and on the cheap isotope enrichment. He lied about providing video coverage of the megawatt test. I can't recall offhand but he's been caught in other various infelicities if not outright lies as well. The other thing you need to consider is that generally people either lie or they don't. If they do, it's because they don't mind doing it and they can lie about any assertion which they make. Liars tend to be not reliable about anything.
Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program?
Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I don't find this interesting. I think it pointless. You know nothing about Rossi's business, so this is mere empty speculation, gossip, and snooping into other people's private business. You're entitled to your opinion but I think Rossi has made himself a public figure. Also, catching him in obvious lies, such as that he is entirely self funded, is legitimate. I agree. If you catch him in a lie, this will be newsworthy, and you should report it. However, you have not caught him in a lie. You have engaged in fatuous, groundless speculation about his business even though you know nothing about it. I find this uninteresting. I can't recall offhand but he's been caught in other various infelicities if not outright lies as well. About some things, but not others. The other thing you need to consider is that generally people either lie or they don't. That is incorrect. They often tell half-truths, or they see things in different ways. I think you say this because you have a bad habit of oversimplifying and seeing things in black in white which are actually in shades of grey. It often happens that people think they are telling the truth but other people think they are lying. It is often impossible to know, even years later when the full historical record is available -- even when the event is famous and well documented -- such as IBM's market decline in the 1980s, the discovery of the polio vaccine, the discovery of DNA and the role of Pauling and Franklin, or what happened in the Battle of Midway. Read two or three history books describing Midway, for example, and try to determine a critical question: whether the Admiral Nagumo was decisive or dithering; and after the decisive U.S. attacks whether he acted as if he were determined to win, or whether he in cowardly retreat, and led by the nose by Adm. Yamaguchi. Everyone there, on both sides, from his commanding officer Yamamoto on down, had different opinions. His own officers and friends said one thing; those who blamed him for the defeat said another. His actions and orders are preserved, but depending on who you read, his orders were lies, evasions, or the best response to an impossible situation imposed on him by Yamamoto. You can read a full description of this in the new book Shattered Sword which describes this and dozens of other well established facts that turn out to be questionable or myths. I guarantee you will be confused. You would need a time machine and the ability to read minds to know the answer. If they do, it's because they don't mind doing it and they can lie about any assertion which they make. Liars tend to be not reliable about anything. That depends on many things such as: what you ask them, whether they have some motivation to lie, whether it is in their best interests to tell the truth, and whether they are rational or irrational. Some people lie for a reason, some because they are delusional, some just for the fun of it. Some lie to help themselves and some feel a compulsion to lie even when telling the truth is in their best interest. People are complicated, and inscrutable. Most people that you suppose are lying turn out to be telling one aspect of the truth. The real truth is forever unknowable, because people are not omniscient. History books are never fully right, and seldom completely wrong. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program?
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com wrote: I don't find this interesting. I think it pointless. You know nothing about Rossi's business, so this is mere empty speculation, gossip, and snooping into other people's private business. You're entitled to your opinion but I think Rossi has made himself a public figure. Also, catching him in obvious lies, such as that he is entirely self funded, is legitimate. I agree. If you catch him in a lie, this will be newsworthy, and you should report it. However, you have not caught him in a lie. You have engaged in fatuous, groundless speculation about his business even though you know nothing about it. I find this uninteresting. Rossi lied when he said he was self-funded when in fact he had received funds from Ampenergo. Either that or Casserino lied. Rossi had a reason to lie, Casserino did not. http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3179019.ece Many people argued that Rossi's scheme could not be a scam because there was no way he could profit from it if it were. In fact there are countless ways, one of which is to take plenty of money from Ampenergo. Rossi also tried to get money from NASA and from Defkalion but apparently failed. We don't know who else he tried to solicit for money and how it came out. We do know that Rossi is offered money all the time on blogs and forums.
Re: [Vo]:Re: can we use such a program?
On Dec 4, 2011, at 10:24 AM, Mattia Rizzi wrote: And, no, AR does not display any of the bodily traits of deception. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=uviXoafHWrU Rossi's face: GOTHCA! -Messaggio originale- From: Terry Blanton Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 8:22 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:can we use such a program? Short of engaging Dr. Lightman (Tim Roth): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie_to_me I have found watching eye movement to be effective: http://www.blifaloo.com/info/lies_eyes.php And, no, AR does not display any of the bodily traits of deception. T For some interpretations the handedness of the individual must be known. Rossi writes with his right hand, as evidenced by this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1v=YrTz5Bq6dsA Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
