Re: [webkit-dev] Request for position on Event Timing

[Ryosuke Niwa]

No. Our concerns have not been addressed.
We're continued to be concerned with the proliferation of these X timing APIs.

We would like to have a holistic study of these APIs and how they fit
together before we'll be comfortable implementing them.

- R. Niwa

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 12:28 AM Rob Buis  wrote:
>
> Hi Ryosuke, Simon,
>
> Have the raised concerns been addressed now, given the document shared by 
> Nicolás and github issue discussions? I would like to avoid bitrot for my 
> prototype :)
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob.
>
> Am 30.09.20 um 00:10 schrieb Nicolás Peña Moreno:
>
> I've written a doc to explain our perspective on the use-cases of these two 
> APIs: 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UrPQD0lOhHKgQy1oy1Cs0F9AsBb83q_bx8cAvu_sKrI.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 5:16 PM Yoav Weiss  wrote:
>>
>> +Nicolás Peña
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 5:40 AM Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:09 PM Rob Buis  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I was not aware of Long Tasks API. However it seems to have a slightly
>>> > different focus (task vs. input events). Also I am mostly interested in
>>> > First Input Delay, and it was decided some time ago to not put it in
>>> > Long Tasks API (see
>>> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYMLTkjcyOZR5Jt3vrulzMSoS32zOFtwyH33f6hW_C8/edit#).
>>>
>>> The concern still withstands. We don't have dozens of slightly
>>> different APIs that websites need to track for junks & delays during
>>> user interactions.
>>>
>>> It's also unclear how this first input delay works with a single page
>>> app which may have multiple transitions after a single page load from
>>> the browser engine's perspective. There had been some discussions
>>> about this in the past in Web Perf WG but I don't think we've come to
>>> any conclusion about it.
>>>
>>> In general, I'm hesitant to have any of these APIs implemented in
>>> WebKit without figuring out more coherent picture of how they'd all
>>> fit together to address underlying use cases.
>>>
>>> - R. Niwa
>>>
>>> > On 06.08.20 20:07, Simon Fraser wrote:
>>> > > Our feedback is that this API seems reasonable, but that there's 
>>> > > overlap with the "long tasks" API,
>>> > > and it's not clear if we need both.
>>> > >
>>> > > Simon
>>> > >
>>> > >> On Aug 6, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Rob Buis  wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Hi Webkit-Dev,
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I would like to get an official position from Webkit on the Event 
>>> > >> Timing Web Perf API.
>>> > >> Besides providing information about input event latency it can be used 
>>> > >> to obtain
>>> > >> First Input Timing metrics. This specification builds on the 
>>> > >> Performance Timeline
>>> > >> specification, which is implemented in Webkit. Chrome has implemented 
>>> > >> the Event
>>> > >> Timing API, see the chrome status entry below.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> - Specification: https://wicg.github.io/event-timing/
>>> > >> - Explainer: https://github.com/WICG/event-timing
>>> > >> - MDN: 
>>> > >> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/PerformanceEventTiming
>>> > >> - ChromeStatus: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167290693713920
>>> > >> - Caniuse.com URL: 
>>> > >> https://caniuse.com/#feat=mdn-api_performanceeventtiming
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Regards,
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Rob.
>>> > >> ___
>>> > >> webkit-dev mailing list
>>> > >> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
>>> > >> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>>> > ___
>>> > webkit-dev mailing list
>>> > webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
>>> > https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>>> ___
>>> webkit-dev mailing list
>>> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
>>> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
___
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Re: [webkit-dev] Request for position on Event Timing

[Rob Buis]

Hi Ryosuke, Simon,

Have the raised concerns been addressed now, given the document shared 
by Nicolás and github issue discussions? I would like to avoid bitrot 
for my prototype :)


Regards,

Rob.

Am 30.09.20 um 00:10 schrieb Nicolás Peña Moreno:
I've written a doc to explain our perspective on the use-cases of 
these two APIs: 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UrPQD0lOhHKgQy1oy1Cs0F9AsBb83q_bx8cAvu_sKrI 
.



On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 5:16 PM Yoav Weiss > wrote:


+Nicolás Peña 

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 5:40 AM Ryosuke Niwa mailto:rn...@webkit.org>> wrote:

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:09 PM Rob Buis mailto:rb...@igalia.com>> wrote:
>
> I was not aware of Long Tasks API. However it seems to have
a slightly
> different focus (task vs. input events). Also I am mostly
interested in
> First Input Delay, and it was decided some time ago to not
put it in
> Long Tasks API (see
>

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYMLTkjcyOZR5Jt3vrulzMSoS32zOFtwyH33f6hW_C8/edit#

).

The concern still withstands. We don't have dozens of slightly
different APIs that websites need to track for junks & delays
during
user interactions.

It's also unclear how this first input delay works with a
single page
app which may have multiple transitions after a single page
load from
the browser engine's perspective. There had been some discussions
about this in the past in Web Perf WG but I don't think we've
come to
any conclusion about it.

In general, I'm hesitant to have any of these APIs implemented in
WebKit without figuring out more coherent picture of how
they'd all
fit together to address underlying use cases.

- R. Niwa

> On 06.08.20 20:07, Simon Fraser wrote:
> > Our feedback is that this API seems reasonable, but that
there's overlap with the "long tasks" API,
> > and it's not clear if we need both.
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >> On Aug 6, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Rob Buis mailto:rb...@igalia.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Webkit-Dev,
> >>
> >> I would like to get an official position from Webkit on
the Event Timing Web Perf API.
> >> Besides providing information about input event latency
it can be used to obtain
> >> First Input Timing metrics. This specification builds on
the Performance Timeline
> >> specification, which is implemented in Webkit. Chrome has
implemented the Event
> >> Timing API, see the chrome status entry below.
> >>
> >> - Specification: https://wicg.github.io/event-timing/

> >> - Explainer: https://github.com/WICG/event-timing

> >> - MDN:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/PerformanceEventTiming


> >> - ChromeStatus:
https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167290693713920

> >> - Caniuse.com URL:
https://caniuse.com/#feat=mdn-api_performanceeventtiming

> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Rob.
> >> ___
> >> webkit-dev mailing list
> >> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org

> >> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev

> ___
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org 
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev

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Re: [webkit-dev] Request for position on Event Timing

[Yoav Weiss]

+Nicolás Peña 

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020 at 5:40 AM Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:09 PM Rob Buis  wrote:
> >
> > I was not aware of Long Tasks API. However it seems to have a slightly
> > different focus (task vs. input events). Also I am mostly interested in
> > First Input Delay, and it was decided some time ago to not put it in
> > Long Tasks API (see
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYMLTkjcyOZR5Jt3vrulzMSoS32zOFtwyH33f6hW_C8/edit#
> ).
>
> The concern still withstands. We don't have dozens of slightly
> different APIs that websites need to track for junks & delays during
> user interactions.
>
> It's also unclear how this first input delay works with a single page
> app which may have multiple transitions after a single page load from
> the browser engine's perspective. There had been some discussions
> about this in the past in Web Perf WG but I don't think we've come to
> any conclusion about it.
>
> In general, I'm hesitant to have any of these APIs implemented in
> WebKit without figuring out more coherent picture of how they'd all
> fit together to address underlying use cases.
>
> - R. Niwa
>
> > On 06.08.20 20:07, Simon Fraser wrote:
> > > Our feedback is that this API seems reasonable, but that there's
> overlap with the "long tasks" API,
> > > and it's not clear if we need both.
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> > >> On Aug 6, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Rob Buis  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi Webkit-Dev,
> > >>
> > >> I would like to get an official position from Webkit on the Event
> Timing Web Perf API.
> > >> Besides providing information about input event latency it can be
> used to obtain
> > >> First Input Timing metrics. This specification builds on the
> Performance Timeline
> > >> specification, which is implemented in Webkit. Chrome has implemented
> the Event
> > >> Timing API, see the chrome status entry below.
> > >>
> > >> - Specification: https://wicg.github.io/event-timing/
> > >> - Explainer: https://github.com/WICG/event-timing
> > >> - MDN:
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/PerformanceEventTiming
> > >> - ChromeStatus: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167290693713920
> > >> - Caniuse.com URL:
> https://caniuse.com/#feat=mdn-api_performanceeventtiming
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> Rob.
> > >> ___
> > >> webkit-dev mailing list
> > >> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> > >> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
> > ___
> > webkit-dev mailing list
> > webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> > https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
> ___
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>
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Re: [webkit-dev] Request for position on Event Timing

[Ryosuke Niwa]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:09 PM Rob Buis  wrote:
>
> I was not aware of Long Tasks API. However it seems to have a slightly
> different focus (task vs. input events). Also I am mostly interested in
> First Input Delay, and it was decided some time ago to not put it in
> Long Tasks API (see
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYMLTkjcyOZR5Jt3vrulzMSoS32zOFtwyH33f6hW_C8/edit#).

The concern still withstands. We don't have dozens of slightly
different APIs that websites need to track for junks & delays during
user interactions.

It's also unclear how this first input delay works with a single page
app which may have multiple transitions after a single page load from
the browser engine's perspective. There had been some discussions
about this in the past in Web Perf WG but I don't think we've come to
any conclusion about it.

In general, I'm hesitant to have any of these APIs implemented in
WebKit without figuring out more coherent picture of how they'd all
fit together to address underlying use cases.

- R. Niwa

> On 06.08.20 20:07, Simon Fraser wrote:
> > Our feedback is that this API seems reasonable, but that there's overlap 
> > with the "long tasks" API,
> > and it's not clear if we need both.
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >> On Aug 6, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Rob Buis  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Webkit-Dev,
> >>
> >> I would like to get an official position from Webkit on the Event Timing 
> >> Web Perf API.
> >> Besides providing information about input event latency it can be used to 
> >> obtain
> >> First Input Timing metrics. This specification builds on the Performance 
> >> Timeline
> >> specification, which is implemented in Webkit. Chrome has implemented the 
> >> Event
> >> Timing API, see the chrome status entry below.
> >>
> >> - Specification: https://wicg.github.io/event-timing/
> >> - Explainer: https://github.com/WICG/event-timing
> >> - MDN: 
> >> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/PerformanceEventTiming
> >> - ChromeStatus: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167290693713920
> >> - Caniuse.com URL: https://caniuse.com/#feat=mdn-api_performanceeventtiming
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Rob.
> >> ___
> >> webkit-dev mailing list
> >> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> >> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
> ___
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
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Re: [webkit-dev] Request for position on Event Timing

[Rob Buis]

I was not aware of Long Tasks API. However it seems to have a slightly 
different focus (task vs. input events). Also I am mostly interested in 
First Input Delay, and it was decided some time ago to not put it in 
Long Tasks API (see 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYMLTkjcyOZR5Jt3vrulzMSoS32zOFtwyH33f6hW_C8/edit#).


Regards,

Rob.

On 06.08.20 20:07, Simon Fraser wrote:

Our feedback is that this API seems reasonable, but that there's overlap with the 
"long tasks" API,
and it's not clear if we need both.

Simon


On Aug 6, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Rob Buis  wrote:

Hi Webkit-Dev,

I would like to get an official position from Webkit on the Event Timing Web 
Perf API.
Besides providing information about input event latency it can be used to obtain
First Input Timing metrics. This specification builds on the Performance 
Timeline
specification, which is implemented in Webkit. Chrome has implemented the Event
Timing API, see the chrome status entry below.

- Specification: https://wicg.github.io/event-timing/
- Explainer: https://github.com/WICG/event-timing
- MDN: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/PerformanceEventTiming
- ChromeStatus: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167290693713920
- Caniuse.com URL: https://caniuse.com/#feat=mdn-api_performanceeventtiming

Regards,

Rob.
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Re: [webkit-dev] Request for position on Event Timing

[Ryosuke Niwa]

I'm generally concerned about the proliferation of all these X timing API.
It's hard to review the aspect of "first input timing" because its
definition is imprecise: https://github.com/WICG/event-timing/issues/91

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 11:07 AM Simon Fraser  wrote:

> Our feedback is that this API seems reasonable, but that there's overlap
> with the "long tasks" API,
> and it's not clear if we need both.
>
> Simon
>
> > On Aug 6, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Rob Buis  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Webkit-Dev,
> >
> > I would like to get an official position from Webkit on the Event Timing
> Web Perf API.
> > Besides providing information about input event latency it can be used
> to obtain
> > First Input Timing metrics. This specification builds on the Performance
> Timeline
> > specification, which is implemented in Webkit. Chrome has implemented
> the Event
> > Timing API, see the chrome status entry below.
> >
> > - Specification: https://wicg.github.io/event-timing/
> > - Explainer: https://github.com/WICG/event-timing
> > - MDN:
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/PerformanceEventTiming
> > - ChromeStatus: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167290693713920
> > - Caniuse.com URL:
> https://caniuse.com/#feat=mdn-api_performanceeventtiming
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Rob.
> > ___
> > webkit-dev mailing list
> > webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> > https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>
> ___
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
> https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>
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Re: [webkit-dev] Request for position on Event Timing

[Simon Fraser]

Our feedback is that this API seems reasonable, but that there's overlap with 
the "long tasks" API,
and it's not clear if we need both.

Simon

> On Aug 6, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Rob Buis  wrote:
> 
> Hi Webkit-Dev,
> 
> I would like to get an official position from Webkit on the Event Timing Web 
> Perf API.
> Besides providing information about input event latency it can be used to 
> obtain
> First Input Timing metrics. This specification builds on the Performance 
> Timeline
> specification, which is implemented in Webkit. Chrome has implemented the 
> Event
> Timing API, see the chrome status entry below.
> 
> - Specification: https://wicg.github.io/event-timing/
> - Explainer: https://github.com/WICG/event-timing
> - MDN: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/PerformanceEventTiming
> - ChromeStatus: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167290693713920
> - Caniuse.com URL: https://caniuse.com/#feat=mdn-api_performanceeventtiming
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rob.
> ___
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[webkit-dev] Request for position on Event Timing

[Rob Buis]

Hi Webkit-Dev,

I would like to get an official position from Webkit on the Event Timing 
Web Perf API.
Besides providing information about input event latency it can be used 
to obtain
First Input Timing metrics. This specification builds on the Performance 
Timeline
specification, which is implemented in Webkit. Chrome has implemented 
the Event

Timing API, see the chrome status entry below.

- Specification: https://wicg.github.io/event-timing/
- Explainer: https://github.com/WICG/event-timing
- MDN: 
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/PerformanceEventTiming

- ChromeStatus: https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167290693713920
- Caniuse.com URL: https://caniuse.com/#feat=mdn-api_performanceeventtiming

Regards,

Rob.
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