Re: [libreoffice-website] Minutes from the Tue Jan 21 infra call
On 23/01/2020 10:54, William Gathoye (LibreOffice) wrote: > 6.3.4 is still not pushed to the update service. As the maintainer of > the libreoffice-* chocolatey packages, I already received 2 mails since > the early morning. :/ I have noticed 6.3.4 has been pushed to the LibreOffice update service. Thanks a lot for this! Chocolatey synced up automatically with the update service. I'm now pleased to announce 6.3.4 is now live on the Chocolatey repos :) [1] Have a great week-end ahead :) [1] https://chocolatey.org/packages/libreoffice-fresh -- William Gathoye Hypertive volunteer for LibreOffice Proud member of The Document Foundation Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and LibreOffice -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Minutes from the Tue Jan 21 infra call
On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 at 10:03:29 +0200, Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote: > Overall I am rather puzzled by the inability of big FOSS projects to > collaborate on helping improve a crucial piece of infra they rely on and > instead dropping it for some shiny open core thing that ships something kind > of similar. Without wearing a particular hat, I also agree with that. And as said during the call (but apparently forgot to minute) I think using GitLab just for its Issue Tracker and/or VCS-Browser is really overkill. Not particularly thrilled to maintain a GitLab instance, also :-P -- Guilhem. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Minutes from the Tue Jan 21 infra call
On 23/01/2020 12:04, Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote: > Some quotes from a recent discussion where KDE contributors weighed in: > [...] Thanks for these precisions :) > I ask you to remain calm and wait for some time while we figure out this > BZ situation. If you come to FOSDEM, I can tell you more on what I am > doing to try and solve it. Haha, I'm calm, I'm just overly passionate about things to move forwards :) Yes, of course, I'll be at FOSDEM for the whole days, even at the social dinner and at the hackfest :) Happy to discuss, any time there :) Regards, -- William Gathoye Hypertive volunteer for LibreOffice Proud member of The Document Foundation Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and LibreOffice -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Minutes from the Tue Jan 21 infra call
William Gathoye (LibreOffice) kirjoitti 23.1.2020 klo 11.53: On 23/01/2020 09:03, Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote: Of course we are worried about Bugzilla, but there are steps being taken to address the Mozilla/upstream fracture. Yep, but if I was the one who decides, using a project that hasn't much maintenance like it used to be is risky IMHO. We are a bit in a situation like what we had with Pootle and we have now with AskBot, but that's another topic. :) It isn't lack of maintenance. This is a very specific case, where upstream and downstream diverged and are now being brought together. Of course everyone should take great care that this never happens again. I believe GNOME's decision to drop Bugzilla was misinformed, same as freedesktop.org's. Discussing with some GNOME devs at last FOSDEM, they said to me they saw a bunch of new contributions since the GitLab migration. I cannot confirm, but I wouldn't be surprised either with all the feedback I received about the BZ slowness and UX not friendliness, this is a problem reported by "new-gen" contributors used to use GitHub, Jira and all. :/ GNOME adopted GitLab as a solution for multiple different things. They could have kept Bugzilla while integrating it with GL, just like we do with Gerrit + BZ. Overall I am rather puzzled by the inability of big FOSS projects to collaborate on helping improve a crucial piece of infra they rely on and instead dropping it for some shiny open core thing that ships something kind of similar. I'm joining your POV if there weren't alternative available *if missing features are implemented*. :) I don't want to see change and churn for its own sake. At the last FOSDEM I also discussed with some GitLab guys, and they would even be willing to put some people to help, like they did with Debian and GNOME. KDE is in the evaluation process to migrating away from Phabricator to GitLab as well[1]. KDE will not drop Bugzilla, though. Some quotes from a recent discussion where KDE contributors weighed in: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21113175 "Gitlab's issues feature just isn't powerful enough to be more than a developer's task list. Since it's completely label based, it's hell to use when you've got bug reports coming in from non-contributors. Even classifying issues by OS needs to be done through labels..." (Krita lead dev) "This is my problem currently with the move from Phabricator to Gitlab, we are losing tons of features: review approval, meta project (documentation, visual design group, promo, website, ...), mockups, meta tasks and more. And those features exist but only in the enterprise edition, that is not open source." (KDE dev & design contributor) That's up to TDF to take decision knowing that in all changes you'll get rejections. For these cases, two ways pipelining between BZ and GitLab issue tracker is possible IMHO. And for what is worth mentioning the experience can be started by replacing Redmine? :) In my view, with the future Bugzilla update we could replace Redmine with Bugzilla. I ask you to remain calm and wait for some time while we figure out this BZ situation. If you come to FOSDEM, I can tell you more on what I am doing to try and solve it. Ilmari -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Minutes from the Tue Jan 21 infra call
On 23/01/2020 11:10, sophi wrote: > Why should we be replacing Redmine? I don't see that in the discussion here. Just to have some real use case at TDF and get feedback :) > Then you are missing a bunch of volunteers in your statement. When > proposing such a change, you need to get first the whole picture and see > the pros and cons in details. Listening to other projects is always > good of course, but each has its own needs and own culture. Yes, of course, "taking up such a challenge" means trying to gather everyone's point of view and measure pros and cons :) And sometimes, depending on the project, after throughout analysis, the current solution may be the best. :) -- William Gathoye Hypertive volunteer for LibreOffice Proud member of The Document Foundation Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and LibreOffice -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Minutes from the Tue Jan 21 infra call
Hi, Le 23/01/2020 à 10:53, William Gathoye (LibreOffice) a écrit : > On 23/01/2020 09:03, Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote: > >> This is a bit misrepresenting. There was a GNOME contributor talking >> about this. I explained to him how GitLab's (like GitHub's) issue >> tracker is inadequate for large projects like us. > > *unless* the missing features we need are implemented IIRC :) And I > volunteer if you need people to implement features. I used to love > hackathons :) It would be an opportunity to play with Ruby again. > >> Of course we are worried about Bugzilla, but there are steps being taken >> to address the Mozilla/upstream fracture. > > Yep, but if I was the one who decides, using a project that hasn't much > maintenance like it used to be is risky IMHO. We are a bit in a > situation like what we had with Pootle and we have now with AskBot, but > that's another topic. :) > >> I believe GNOME's decision to drop Bugzilla was misinformed, same as >> freedesktop.org's. > > Discussing with some GNOME devs at last FOSDEM, they said to me they saw > a bunch of new contributions since the GitLab migration. I cannot > confirm, but I wouldn't be surprised either with all the feedback I > received about the BZ slowness and UX not friendliness, this is a > problem reported by "new-gen" contributors used to use GitHub, Jira and > all. :/ > >> Overall I am rather puzzled by the inability of big FOSS projects to >> collaborate on helping improve a crucial piece of infra they rely on and >> instead dropping it for some shiny open core thing that ships something >> kind of similar. +1 this is definitely something we should try to improve > > I'm joining your POV if there weren't alternative available *if missing > features are implemented*. :) > > At the last FOSDEM I also discussed with some GitLab guys, and they > would even be willing to put some people to help, like they did with > Debian and GNOME. KDE is in the evaluation process to migrating away > from Phabricator to GitLab as well[1]. > > That's up to TDF to take decision knowing that in all changes you'll get > rejections. For these cases, two ways pipelining between BZ and GitLab > issue tracker is possible IMHO. And for what is worth mentioning the > experience can be started by replacing Redmine? :) Why should we be replacing Redmine? I don't see that in the discussion here. > > Like all meritocratic organization, it's up to volunteers to take up > such a challenge and propose migration path *then* ask > managers/directors to take decision. That's the way I work. I don't like > to come up without PoC/solutions. Then you are missing a bunch of volunteers in your statement. When proposing such a change, you need to get first the whole picture and see the pros and cons in details. Listening to other projects is always good of course, but each has its own needs and own culture. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org GSM: +33683901545 IRC: sophi Foundation coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Minutes from the Tue Jan 21 infra call
On 23/01/2020 06:26, Guilhem Moulin wrote: > * wget: 6.3.4 not pushed to update service >+ Missing from the dict, cloph will add it after the call 6.3.4 is still not pushed to the update service. As the maintainer of the libreoffice-* chocolatey packages, I already received 2 mails since the early morning. :/ -- William Gathoye Hypertive volunteer for LibreOffice Proud member of The Document Foundation Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and LibreOffice -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Minutes from the Tue Jan 21 infra call
On 23/01/2020 09:03, Ilmari Lauhakangas wrote: > This is a bit misrepresenting. There was a GNOME contributor talking > about this. I explained to him how GitLab's (like GitHub's) issue > tracker is inadequate for large projects like us. *unless* the missing features we need are implemented IIRC :) And I volunteer if you need people to implement features. I used to love hackathons :) It would be an opportunity to play with Ruby again. > Of course we are worried about Bugzilla, but there are steps being taken > to address the Mozilla/upstream fracture. Yep, but if I was the one who decides, using a project that hasn't much maintenance like it used to be is risky IMHO. We are a bit in a situation like what we had with Pootle and we have now with AskBot, but that's another topic. :) > I believe GNOME's decision to drop Bugzilla was misinformed, same as > freedesktop.org's. Discussing with some GNOME devs at last FOSDEM, they said to me they saw a bunch of new contributions since the GitLab migration. I cannot confirm, but I wouldn't be surprised either with all the feedback I received about the BZ slowness and UX not friendliness, this is a problem reported by "new-gen" contributors used to use GitHub, Jira and all. :/ > Overall I am rather puzzled by the inability of big FOSS projects to > collaborate on helping improve a crucial piece of infra they rely on and > instead dropping it for some shiny open core thing that ships something > kind of similar. I'm joining your POV if there weren't alternative available *if missing features are implemented*. :) At the last FOSDEM I also discussed with some GitLab guys, and they would even be willing to put some people to help, like they did with Debian and GNOME. KDE is in the evaluation process to migrating away from Phabricator to GitLab as well[1]. That's up to TDF to take decision knowing that in all changes you'll get rejections. For these cases, two ways pipelining between BZ and GitLab issue tracker is possible IMHO. And for what is worth mentioning the experience can be started by replacing Redmine? :) Like all meritocratic organization, it's up to volunteers to take up such a challenge and propose migration path *then* ask managers/directors to take decision. That's the way I work. I don't like to come up without PoC/solutions. [1] https://phabricator.kde.org/T11108 -- William Gathoye Hypertive volunteer for LibreOffice Proud member of The Document Foundation Member of LaMouette - French based association promoting ODF and LibreOffice -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-website] Minutes from the Tue Jan 21 infra call
Guilhem Moulin kirjoitti 23.1.2020 klo 7.26: - wget: some discussion on the Telegram design channel, folks are worried about BZ upstream dev and might want to use GitLab's issue tracker instead if missing features are implemented for QA team This is a bit misrepresenting. There was a GNOME contributor talking about this. I explained to him how GitLab's (like GitHub's) issue tracker is inadequate for large projects like us. Of course we are worried about Bugzilla, but there are steps being taken to address the Mozilla/upstream fracture. I believe GNOME's decision to drop Bugzilla was misinformed, same as freedesktop.org's. With FDO I actually got confirmation that lack of info was the cause (they were unaware of the continued development on Mozilla's side). It is of course unfortunate that BZ's situation is what it is and they have been unable to clearly communicate what's up. Overall I am rather puzzled by the inability of big FOSS projects to collaborate on helping improve a crucial piece of infra they rely on and instead dropping it for some shiny open core thing that ships something kind of similar. Ilmari -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: website+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/website/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
