Re: [whatwg] Reasons for moving Ogg to MUST status (was Re: HTML 5, OGG, competition, civil rights, and persons with disabilities)
Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) wrote: That's not unreasonable, but you have yet to give a solid technical reason for reverting to the old text, Reasons to put the Ogg tech suite back on the spec: - it's Free (who here hates beer or freedom?) This is a false dichotomy. (You characterise that if you don't want Ogg in the spec right now, you're against freedom. This is not actually the case.) - it's patent-unencumbered (this is a FACT) Appending FACT to something which is inherently uncertain does not make it a fact. - it's technically very good (Theora) or even superb (Vorbis and FLAC) Unsure what relevance FLAC has here. Theora is not as good as many other codecs. (If it was technically very good, in environments where codec choice has nothing to do with IP constraints -- e.g. illegal movie torrents -- then it would be used. It's not.) - it's widely available and readily installable If this is the case, then it makes little difference if it's a SHOULD requirement or not, since small authors can use it and have it easily installed when a user comes across content that uses it. - it's being integrated in popular Web browsers RIGHT NOW - it enables little guys to produce content at minimal cost Two fair points. This is not the year 2000. Mozilla and Opera are embedding Theora video. That's a user base large enough to force the rest of the players to get with the program. I very much doubt it. IE at least would have to support it before a majority of authors would use it seriously. Andrew Sidwell
Re: [whatwg] Reasons for moving Ogg to MUST status (was Re: HTML 5, OGG, competition, civil rights, and persons with disabilities)
On 13/12/2007, Andrew Sidwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) wrote: This is not the year 2000. Mozilla and Opera are embedding Theora video. That's a user base large enough to force the rest of the players to get with the program. I very much doubt it. IE at least would have to support it before a majority of authors would use it seriously. IE can't really be a serious consideration here - if HTML standards had to wait on IE adopting them, this list might as well shut down now. - d.
[whatwg] Reasons for moving Ogg to MUST status (was Re: HTML 5, OGG, competition, civil rights, and persons with disabilities)
That's not unreasonable, but you have yet to give a solid technical reason for reverting to the old text, Reasons to put the Ogg tech suite back on the spec: - it's Free (who here hates beer or freedom?) - it's patent-unencumbered (this is a FACT) - it's technically very good (Theora) or even superb (Vorbis and FLAC) - it's widely available and readily installable - it's being integrated in popular Web browsers RIGHT NOW - it enables little guys to produce content at minimal cost COME ON, what other reasons do you need? so far your only argument is that ogg should be kept because it is FOSS, which on its own is insufficient. I just gave you N more reasons. As far as wording goes using the word SHOULD support is far too weak for HTML5, as SHOULD is relatively meaningless, a much better requirement is that the wording be MUST support ...; this is a sensible as having a spec that says SHOULD support ogg/vorbis and ogg/theora is fairly useless -- all that will happen is that browser vendors (Apple, Mozilla, Opera, etc) will once again be in a position where the spec's wording means nothing and we end up with yet another standard which is not tied to whatever becomes the actual de facto standard, as implemented by the majority browser. This is much worse for site compatibility for every other browser as it then becomes necessary to determine what the de facto standard actually *is*. This is not the year 2000. Mozilla and Opera are embedding Theora video. That's a user base large enough to force the rest of the players to get with the program. Solid technical, philosophical and practical reasons to move Ogg to MUST. -- Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rudd-O.com - http://rudd-o.com/ GPG key ID 0xC8D28B92 at http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ When one burns one's bridges, what a very nice fire it makes. -- Dylan Thomas signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
