Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
Adele Peterson wrote:
Hi all,
I'm looking at the Web Forms 2 specification for the multi-file upload
control that uses the min/max attributes. When multiple files are
selected, its unclear what the value attribute should contain. It could
contain just the first filename, or a comma separated list of all of the
filenames. I think it will be useful though to add something about this
in the specification for consistency.
Firefox 3 exposes an API that would let you get all filenames if
multiple files were selected. The .files property returns a (live) list
of file objects, each object has the following API:
interface DOMFile
{
readonly attribute DOMString fileName;
readonly attribute unsigned long long fileSize;
DOMString getAsText(in DOMString encoding);
DOMString getAsDataURL();
DOMString getAsBinary();
};
This of course doesn't answer the question of what to return for .value.
I would say return the first filename. Trying to encode all filenames in
a single string is just going to be more complicated than using the
above API, and returning an array is complicated API wise, and also
seems more complicated for users than using the above API.
/ Jonas
Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
Michael A. Puls II wrote:
Anyway, the use case for .value is:
...
pFile to attach: p
pinput type=file
onchange=document.getElementsByTagName('p')[0].innerHTML +=
this.value;/p
...
How is that a use case? Please explain why outputting the value of the
control in an adjacent paragraph is useful at all and why authors would
do it. The value is visible in the control itself, so that seems
unnecessary.
--
Lachlan Hunt - Opera Software
http://lachy.id.au/
http://www.opera.com/
Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
On 6/22/08, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Michael A. Puls II wrote:
Anyway, the use case for .value is:
...
pFile to attach: p
pinput type=file
onchange=document.getElementsByTagName('p')[0].innerHTML
+=
this.value;/p
...
How is that a use case? Please explain why outputting the value of the
control in an adjacent paragraph is useful at all and why authors would do
it. The value is visible in the control itself, so that seems unnecessary.
The file is visible in the control itself, but:
If the control is not long enough, you might not see the filename
unless you scroll in the field or the script resizes based on a
multiple of the length of .value. Even then, the path might be
considered noise.
An author might provide the filenames in a more friendly and readable way.
As another example, imagine you have input type=file and onchange,
it adds a filename to a SELECT element and resizes the element.
Then, the select has an onchange listener itself. When you select a
different file in the SELECT, you can make something happen.
For example, you can browse to .wav files and add them to a select
playlist. Then, you can select each of the filenames to have them play
with Audio() for example. Attached is a super basic example of that.
Instead of Audio(), you might load theora videos and play them with
the VideoLan plugin or load wmv files and play them with WMP.
--
Michael
Select a file in the playlist to play it
Add a .wav file to the playlist:
Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
Adele Peterson wrote:
I'm looking at the Web Forms 2 specification for the multi-file
upload control that uses the min/max attributes. When multiple files
are selected, its unclear what the value attribute should contain.
Assuming you're referring to the value DOM attribute, not the value=
content attribute, It seems to be unclear what the value should contain
even when there's only a single file selected.
I did some testing to see what each returned. All tests use this markup
to obtain the value, using the Live DOM Viewer:
!DOCTYPE html
input type=file id=test size=100
input type=button onclick=w(document.getElementById('test').value);
value=Read Value...
http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Cinput%20type%3D%22file%22%20id%3D%22test%22%20size%3D100%3E%0D%0A%3Cinput%20type%3Dbutton%20onclick%3D%22w(document.getElementById('test').value)%3B%22%20value%3D%22Read%20Value...%22%3E
In each one, I selected a file named test.txt from within my home or My
Documents directory. These are the vaules returned in each browser:
Windows browsers:
IE 8: test.txt
IE 7 mode:test.txt
Firefox 2:D:\My Documents\test.txt
Firefox 3:test.txt
Opera 9.5:C:\fake_path\test.txt
Safari 3.1.1: D:\My Documents\test.txt
Mac browsers:
Firefox 3:test.txt
Opera 9.5:C:\fake_path\test.txt
Safari 4 (Developer Preview): /Users/lachlanhunt/test.txt
It could contain just the first filename, or a comma separated list
of all of the filenames. I think it will be useful though to add
something about this in the specification for consistency.
Opera 9.5 supports multiple file selection when a max= attribute is
set to a value greater than 1. It currently only returns the fake path
of the first file, as shown above. However, the control displays to the
user the real paths of all files selected as quoted strings separated by
semi-colons. e.g.
/Users/lachlanhunt/test.txt;/Users/lachlanhunt/other.txt
Since Both Firefox 3 and IE 8 only return the file name, and Opera 9.5
refuses to return the real path anyway, maybe we should define that when
there's only a single file selected, it returns just the file name. When
there are multiple files selected, would a string containing the file
names, each surrounded by quotes and separated by semi-colons work?
e.g. test.txt;other.txt
There's a small problem with that too, because we would need a way to
handle file names that contained quote marks, which is possible on Mac
and Linux, but not on Windows.
But it really depends what use cases we need to address. Do authors
ever actually obtain the file name using JavaScript for anything? If
so, what for? With multiple file selection, is it likely they would
want to inspect each individual file name for anything, in which case,
should we find a way to make it easier to obtain individual file names?
--
Lachlan Hunt - Opera Software
http://lachy.id.au/
http://www.opera.com/
Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
Hi
There's a small problem with that too, because we would need a way to handle
file names
that contained quote marks, which is possible on Mac and Linux, but not on
Windows.
Not only that, but in unix flavours, paths are separated with : while
in windows they're separated with ;
In *nix special char are escaped with \ while in windows \ separates
directories in paths.
So IMO, it won't be possible to com up with a solution that is cross
platform without making up something completly new.
I'd suggest for HTMLInputElement to have a .files or .paths property
which would be an array of all the files choosen, names only.
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 2:44 PM, Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Adele Peterson wrote:
I'm looking at the Web Forms 2 specification for the multi-file upload
control that uses the min/max attributes. When multiple files are selected,
its unclear what the value attribute should contain.
Assuming you're referring to the value DOM attribute, not the value=
content attribute, It seems to be unclear what the value should contain even
when there's only a single file selected.
I did some testing to see what each returned. All tests use this markup to
obtain the value, using the Live DOM Viewer:
!DOCTYPE html
input type=file id=test size=100
input type=button onclick=w(document.getElementById('test').value);
value=Read Value...
http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0D%0A%3Cinput%20type%3D%22file%22%20id%3D%22test%22%20size%3D100%3E%0D%0A%3Cinput%20type%3Dbutton%20onclick%3D%22w(document.getElementById('test').value)%3B%22%20value%3D%22Read%20Value...%22%3E
In each one, I selected a file named test.txt from within my home or My
Documents directory. These are the vaules returned in each browser:
Windows browsers:
IE 8: test.txt
IE 7 mode:test.txt
Firefox 2:D:\My Documents\test.txt
Firefox 3:test.txt
Opera 9.5:C:\fake_path\test.txt
Safari 3.1.1: D:\My Documents\test.txt
Mac browsers:
Firefox 3:test.txt
Opera 9.5:C:\fake_path\test.txt
Safari 4 (Developer Preview): /Users/lachlanhunt/test.txt
It could contain just the first filename, or a comma separated list of all
of the filenames. I think it will be useful though to add something about
this in the specification for consistency.
Opera 9.5 supports multiple file selection when a max= attribute is set to
a value greater than 1. It currently only returns the fake path of the
first file, as shown above. However, the control displays to the user the
real paths of all files selected as quoted strings separated by semi-colons.
e.g.
/Users/lachlanhunt/test.txt;/Users/lachlanhunt/other.txt
Since Both Firefox 3 and IE 8 only return the file name, and Opera 9.5
refuses to return the real path anyway, maybe we should define that when
there's only a single file selected, it returns just the file name. When
there are multiple files selected, would a string containing the file names,
each surrounded by quotes and separated by semi-colons work?
e.g. test.txt;other.txt
There's a small problem with that too, because we would need a way to handle
file names that contained quote marks, which is possible on Mac and Linux,
but not on Windows.
But it really depends what use cases we need to address. Do authors ever
actually obtain the file name using JavaScript for anything? If so, what
for? With multiple file selection, is it likely they would want to inspect
each individual file name for anything, in which case, should we find a way
to make it easier to obtain individual file names?
--
Lachlan Hunt - Opera Software
http://lachy.id.au/
http://www.opera.com/
Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
On 6/20/08, João Eiras [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi There's a small problem with that too, because we would need a way to handle file names that contained quote marks, which is possible on Mac and Linux, but not on Windows. Not only that, but in unix flavours, paths are separated with : while in windows they're separated with ; In *nix special char are escaped with \ while in windows \ separates directories in paths. So IMO, it won't be possible to com up with a solution that is cross platform without making up something completly new. I'd suggest for HTMLInputElement to have a .files or .paths property which would be an array of all the files choosen, names only. I like the idea of .files returning an array of just filenames. Great idea! But, if .files is implemented, what should .value return then? Always just the first filename? A separated list of platform-dependent filenames with a separator that makes sense for separating filenames on that platform? Nothing? On a side, I'd like .paths to return a list of file URIs (when I allow it, like for local pages or specific sites). Be nice for building a playlist for scripting media player type plugins or even Audio and Video. That way, you could choose a bunch of files in a different directory than the page and have the paths load in a playlist. (Or, even use a script to convert the file URI to a platform path if the plugin doesn't understand file URIs). Of course, I guess that'd have to be a browser-specific thing and .vendor_paths. Anyway, .files returning an array would be a lot better than trying to parse some platform-specific separated list string that .value might return. -- Michael
Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
João Eiras wrote: I'd suggest for HTMLInputElement to have a .files or .paths property which would be an array of all the files choosen, names only. Whether or not it's worth doing that really depends what use cases we're trying to address. The initial post in this thread was just about defining what .value returns for file controls, which needs to be defined anyway and is what this thread should really focus on. I don't think we should jump to the conclusion that we really need to provide an array of individual file names without defining why that's even useful for authors, especially when doing so doesn't actually address the original problem that was raised. -- Lachlan Hunt - Opera Software http://lachy.id.au/ http://www.opera.com/
Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Lachlan Hunt wrote: Windows browsers: IE 8: test.txt IE 7 mode:test.txt For the record, real IE7 (on Vista) says the full path. -- Thomas Broyer
Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
Why can't .value returnere an array? just the first filename seems silly. I would expect an array. On 6/20/08, Thomas Broyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Lachlan Hunt wrote: Windows browsers: IE 8: test.txt IE 7 mode:test.txt For the record, real IE7 (on Vista) says the full path. -- Thomas Broyer -- Best regards / Med vennlig hilsen Frode Børli Seria.no Mobile: +47 406 16 637 Company: +47 216 90 000 Fax: +47 216 91 000 Think about the environment. Do not print this e-mail unless you really need to. Tenk miljø. Ikke skriv ut denne e-posten dersom det ikke er nødvendig.
[whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
Hi all, I'm looking at the Web Forms 2 specification for the multi-file upload control that uses the min/max attributes. When multiple files are selected, its unclear what the value attribute should contain. It could contain just the first filename, or a comma separated list of all of the filenames. I think it will be useful though to add something about this in the specification for consistency. Thanks, Adele
Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
I think it should be a select box containing each file name and perhaps an icon, and when you select a file - it asks you if you want to remove the file from the upload queue. Frode 2008/6/19 Adele Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, I'm looking at the Web Forms 2 specification for the multi-file upload control that uses the min/max attributes. When multiple files are selected, its unclear what the value attribute should contain. It could contain just the first filename, or a comma separated list of all of the filenames. I think it will be useful though to add something about this in the specification for consistency. Thanks, Adele -- Best regards / Med vennlig hilsen Frode Børli Seria.no Mobile: +47 406 16 637 Company: +47 216 90 000 Fax: +47 216 91 000 Think about the environment. Do not print this e-mail unless you really need to. Tenk miljø. Ikke skriv ut denne e-posten dersom det ikke er nødvendig.
Re: [whatwg] What should the value attribute be for multi-file upload controls in WF2?
Sorry for misunderstanding. Ofcourse it is up to the user agent to decide the appearance. If the value attribute should be accessible from script, then I would wish it was an array when accessed from script. If it must be a string, then I think it the control itself should contain multiple input type=file elements, each with a single value - accessible trough DOM. Separating by comma is not good enough, as file names can contain comma. Frode 2008/6/20 Adele Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: That's a suggestion for the design of the control, but I was asking specifically about the value attribute, which can be accessed from script as a string. - Adele On Jun 19, 2008, at 2:56 PM, Frode Børli wrote: I think it should be a select box containing each file name and perhaps an icon, and when you select a file - it asks you if you want to remove the file from the upload queue. Frode 2008/6/19 Adele Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, I'm looking at the Web Forms 2 specification for the multi-file upload control that uses the min/max attributes. When multiple files are selected, its unclear what the value attribute should contain. It could contain just the first filename, or a comma separated list of all of the filenames. I think it will be useful though to add something about this in the specification for consistency. Thanks, Adele -- Best regards / Med vennlig hilsen Frode Børli Seria.no Mobile: +47 406 16 637 Company: +47 216 90 000 Fax: +47 216 91 000 Think about the environment. Do not print this e-mail unless you really need to. Tenk miljø. Ikke skriv ut denne e-posten dersom det ikke er nødvendig. -- Best regards / Med vennlig hilsen Frode Børli Seria.no Mobile: +47 406 16 637 Company: +47 216 90 000 Fax: +47 216 91 000 Think about the environment. Do not print this e-mail unless you really need to. Tenk miljø. Ikke skriv ut denne e-posten dersom det ikke er nødvendig.
