Re: [WikiEN-l] Lobbyists and Wikipedia (again)
There is an excellent story on the BBC about this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16084861 They've really understood our position on these matters. It looks like David Gerard is responsible for helping them understand, so thank you David! ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Lobbyists and Wikipedia (again)
On 8 December 2011 19:00, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: There is an excellent story on the BBC about this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16084861 They've really understood our position on these matters. It looks like David Gerard is responsible for helping them understand, so thank you David! The quote is the compressed remix of a 20-minute phone call :-) It won't surprise anyone that this has been story of the day on the comcom list ... - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] Lobbyists and Wikipedia (again)
There's an interesting story leading in the British newspaper the Independent this morning based on an undercover sting of lobbyists Bell Pottinger: Discussing techniques for managing reputations online, Mr Wilson mentioned a team that could 'sort' Wikipedia. 'We've got all sorts of dark arts,' added Mr Collins. 'I told him [David Wilson] he couldn't put them in the written presentation because it's embarrassing if it gets out.' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/caught-on-camera-top-lobbyists-boasting-how-they-influence-the-pm-6272760.html There might be some editors who want to start an immediate investigation to search for the members of this 'team' but I think that would probably be a waste of time which would put suspicion on a large number of innocent editors. It's always possible Bell Pottinger were boasting. What might be better is to stress that any lobbyist seeking to use 'dark arts' to correct inaccurate or unfair Wikipedia articles, or to add properly sourced positive information, is best advised to use OTRS and to provide sources. It seems to me that current policy and guideline pages are much heavier on telling people what not to do and threatening dire consequences, than they are on helping people to help us. -- Sam Blacketer ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Lobbyists and Wikipedia (again)
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:57, Sam Blacketer sam.blacke...@gmail.com wrote: What might be better is to stress that any lobbyist seeking to use 'dark arts' to correct inaccurate or unfair Wikipedia articles, or to add properly sourced positive information, is best advised to use OTRS and to provide sources. It seems to me that current policy and guideline pages are much heavier on telling people what not to do and threatening dire consequences, than they are on helping people to help us. This sounds like a splendid idea. Perhaps we could supplement it by informing criminals that they can avoid a life of crime by getting an education and a job, or maybe we could tell politicians to tell the truth. Or maybe News of the World journalists could be informed of the many story-gathering opportunities that don't involve hacking into people's voicemail systems. -- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/ ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Lobbyists and Wikipedia (again)
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote: This sounds like a splendid idea. Perhaps we could supplement it by informing criminals that they can avoid a life of crime by getting an education and a job, or maybe we could tell politicians to tell the truth. Or maybe News of the World journalists could be informed of the many story-gathering opportunities that don't involve hacking into people's voicemail systems. I don't know, but do any of the examples you cite involve the use of Wikipedia, you know that website where they assume good faith? -- Sam Blacketer ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Lobbyists and Wikipedia (again)
On 6 December 2011 16:08, Sam Blacketer sam.blacke...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote: This sounds like a splendid idea. Perhaps we could supplement it by informing criminals that they can avoid a life of crime by getting an education and a job, or maybe we could tell politicians to tell the truth. Or maybe News of the World journalists could be informed of the many story-gathering opportunities that don't involve hacking into people's voicemail systems. I don't know, but do any of the examples you cite involve the use of Wikipedia, you know that website where they assume good faith? I think the NOTW journalists are now looking for jobs that don't involve a lifetime of crime. Nearer to home, I have had a few contacts/discussions involving points material to how a spin-doctor/lobbyist should operate within the Wikipedia framework. But anyone who really understands what Wikipedia is after should be able to provide the right advice. AGF goes with assume complete ignorance as the baseline. The problem with PR types is that the approach is typically in line with the proverb about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. I was sitting in a pub on a family occasion when, oops, up comes the COI guideline, with someone telling me that they'd had the company lawyer look over what they were doing. I had to make the point back that our guidelines are not legal documents. That sort of thing. We might make our expectations, in the case of companies, clearer along the lines that we want the kind of article a business school academic might write as background for a case study, not the type a flack would put together. The trouble is that the Web world is populated by autodidacts; in fact the whole thrust of the personal computing revolution is that we all assume nothing should need any training any more. The market is supposed to match supply of training to demand, but if there is a point to this thread it would that that proposition looks a bit suspect in this context. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Lobbyists and Wikipedia (again)
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Sam Blacketer sam.blacke...@gmail.com wrote: There might be some editors who want to start an immediate investigation to search for the members of this 'team' but I think that would probably be a waste of time which would put suspicion on a large number of innocent editors. It's always possible Bell Pottinger were boasting. I think its pretty obvious in this case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Zahra_Ahmed ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Lobbyists and Wikipedia (again)
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 7:57 AM, Sam Blacketer sam.blacke...@gmail.com wrote: There might be some editors who want to start an immediate investigation to search for the members of this 'team' but I think that would probably be a waste of time which would put suspicion on a large number of innocent editors. It's always possible Bell Pottinger were boasting. I think its pretty obvious in this case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Zahra_Ahmed Does that relate to a known employee or client? Fred ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] Lobbyists and Wikipedia (again)
I think its pretty obvious in this case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Zahra_Ahmed Does that relate to a known employee or client? No. The user created the account only to edit Dahabshiil ‎article. Four of his edits were tagged with references removed. His point of view is very clear. He twisted words like The branch, which was run illegally from Barre's residence in Karachi into was not fully complaining with local legislation. Come on! The first time the article named Mohammed Sulaymon Barre it said it was a guantanamo detainee, he deleted that part of guantanamo. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dahabshiildiff=prevoldid=431463724 Even with AGF, some of his edits fail WP:NPOV also he added text.. As part of its social responsibility commitments, Dahabshiil invests $1,000,000 a year in community regeneration with somaliaandguardian.blogpsot.com as source. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dahabshiildiff=prevoldid=431599357 Maybe he didn't knew about WP:RS but then why he removed other references before? Investigation on this is a must. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
