Re: [WikiEN-l] One article, 12 volumes, and a snapshot of how news becomes history
On 11/09/2010 15:07, geni wrote: It's an impressive example of churnalism. Original source is: http://booktwo.org/notebook/wikipedia-historiography/ Talk can be found at: http://huffduffer.com/dConstruct/25256 http://www.slideshare.net/stml/james-bridle-dconstruct-20 I've always thought that WP is not in the business of writing history. I'd need convincing that [[Iraq War]] has made the transition from current affairs to history: it's obvious why some people might be consigning the War to history just now, but that is far from saying that the article measures up to the criteria. (In fact if archival research is used as the determinant of what is history rather than journalism, it's clear that our sensible ban on the use of primary sources in most ways means it never will.) It's an interesting general discussion, particularly because one of the general weaknesses still visible in enWP is that bad history often goes unchallenged for years. We should spend more time looking at what should be done about such areas, where our methods have less traction in improving quality. Charles ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] One article, 12 volumes, and a snapshot of how news becomes history
Charles Matthews charles.r.matth...@ntlworld.com wrote: I've always thought that WP is not in the business of writing history. I'd need convincing that [[Iraq War]] has made the transition from current affairs to history: it's obvious why some people might be consigning the War to history just now, but that is far from saying that the article measures up to the criteria. Its an interesting way to look at an article. IIRC, I pushed people into naming it Iraq War to begin with - back when it was still called something less neutral - invasion or such. The current article is 193K? in size.. what's that in pages? -S ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] One article, 12 volumes, and a snapshot of how news becomes history
On 12 September 2010 10:00, stevertigo stv...@gmail.com wrote: Its an interesting way to look at an article. IIRC, I pushed people into naming it Iraq War to begin with - back when it was still called something less neutral - invasion or such. The current article is 193K? in size.. what's that in pages? Not counting footnotes and so on, it's approximately 16,000 words; say 40-50 pages of a book, or about a normal chapter. Which seems right, for a very large article. -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] One article, 12 volumes, and a snapshot of how news becomes history
Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: Not counting footnotes and so on, it's approximately 16,000 words; say 40-50 pages of a book, or about a normal chapter. Which seems right, for a very large article. Agree. My 'time to split' light goes on somewhere around 100K, but maybe 200K ~45 pages makes more sense for certain articles. -S ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] One article, 12 volumes, and a snapshot of how news becomes history
On 12 September 2010 20:58, stevertigo stv...@gmail.com wrote: Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: Not counting footnotes and so on, it's approximately 16,000 words; say 40-50 pages of a book, or about a normal chapter. Which seems right, for a very large article. Agree. My 'time to split' light goes on somewhere around 100K, but maybe 200K ~45 pages makes more sense for certain articles. List articles, particularly lists of characters or episodes. - d. ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
Re: [WikiEN-l] One article, 12 volumes, and a snapshot of how news becomes history
On 11 September 2010 04:56, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/09/07/wikipedia-entry-on-iraq-war-turned-into-actual-encyclopedia/ Technology writer James Bridle (website: http://shorttermmemoryloss.com/) took the [[Iraq war]] entryand turned it into a 12-volume historiography, publishing every edit over five years. It's an interesting exercise that isn't just a snapshot of how our project works, but of how information becomes part of the cultural lexicon. Which battles to include? How is that word spelled? How does one properly describe the impact of various religious sects on the outcome? And can the entire war really be reduced to Saddam Hussein was a dickhead? Bridle raises many good points in his discussion, differentiating history from historiography. Our History button is not just a means of attributing contributions to meet license requirements: it is a window into the manner in which our society collates, discusses, and accretes information about historical events, shaping the way in which current and future generations will view the world in our time. This article is well worth the read. Risker/Anne It's an impressive example of churnalism. Original source is: http://booktwo.org/notebook/wikipedia-historiography/ Talk can be found at: http://huffduffer.com/dConstruct/25256 http://www.slideshare.net/stml/james-bridle-dconstruct-2010 -- geni ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
[WikiEN-l] One article, 12 volumes, and a snapshot of how news becomes history
http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/09/07/wikipedia-entry-on-iraq-war-turned-into-actual-encyclopedia/ Technology writer James Bridle (website: http://shorttermmemoryloss.com/) took the [[Iraq war]] entryand turned it into a 12-volume historiography, publishing every edit over five years. It's an interesting exercise that isn't just a snapshot of how our project works, but of how information becomes part of the cultural lexicon. Which battles to include? How is that word spelled? How does one properly describe the impact of various religious sects on the outcome? And can the entire war really be reduced to Saddam Hussein was a dickhead? Bridle raises many good points in his discussion, differentiating history from historiography. Our History button is not just a means of attributing contributions to meet license requirements: it is a window into the manner in which our society collates, discusses, and accretes information about historical events, shaping the way in which current and future generations will view the world in our time. This article is well worth the read. Risker/Anne ___ WikiEN-l mailing list WikiEN-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
