Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world
David Gerard wrote: The work-around I'm aware of is for site authors to check if you're running on the iPhone in javascript, and rewrite the video elements to normal anchors with a custom schema, e.g. a href=oggplayer://example.com/file.ogvClick here to watch in Ogg Player/a. Then, if the user has installed the Ogg Player app, which registers itself has handling the 'oggplayer' schama, Safari will pass the custom uri to it, and it can download/stream/whathaveyou. *nod* doable in theory. We could potentially bundle Theora playing with our iPhone native app (not yet released!), assuming it'll run ok on the little ARM processor. :) Don't expect it in the first release though unless you want to code it up yourself... if you do, hit up Hampton at hcat...@wikimedia.org :) -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Fwd: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world
I asked whatwg for ideas on how to make this just work for iPhone users. The answer is sort of horrible. Any iPhone devs in the house? - d. -- Forwarded message -- From: Ralph Giles gi...@xiph.org Date: 2009/7/9 Subject: Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world To: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com Cc: WHATWG Proposals wha...@lists.whatwg.org On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:34 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone got ideas on the iPhone problem? I think this is off topic, and I am not an iPhone developer, but: Assuming the app store terms allow video players, it should be possible to distribute some sort of dedicated player application, free or otherwise. I believe the fee for a cert to sign applications is currently $100/year. However, the iPhone doesn't have a shared filesystem, or helper-applications in the normal sense, At least not as far as I can tell. The work-around I'm aware of is for site authors to check if you're running on the iPhone in javascript, and rewrite the video elements to normal anchors with a custom schema, e.g. a href=oggplayer://example.com/file.ogvClick here to watch in Ogg Player/a. Then, if the user has installed the Ogg Player app, which registers itself has handling the 'oggplayer' schama, Safari will pass the custom uri to it, and it can download/stream/whathaveyou. -r ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world
I'm not an iPhone dev, but I've played around with Android a bit and the situation is similar. We dont have a shared filesystem between apps (Android supports SD, I assume the iPhone does too), we can't have helper applications either, and there's no real plugin interface for the browser. The proposed solution would probably work well on Android too and tbh I don't think it's *that* terrible of a workaround, given the platform restrictions and lack of native support; I haven't looked heavily into Android on this subject. The only other option (which isn't available on the iPhone due to Apple's stance on competing browsers) would be to basically fork the browser app and add Ogg support. Certainly doable in Android, although I'm pretty sure that's a direction we want to go in (nor do I want to maintain a fork of the Android browser :) -Chad On Jul 9, 2009 6:54 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: I asked whatwg for ideas on how to make this just work for iPhone users. The answer is sort of horrible. Any iPhone devs in the house? - d. -- Forwarded message -- From: Ralph Giles gi...@xiph.org Date: 2009/7/9 Subject: Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world To: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com Cc: WHATWG Proposals wha...@lists.whatwg.org On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:34 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone got ideas on the iPhone problem? I think this is off topic, and I am not an iPhone developer, but: Assuming the app store terms allow video players, it should be possible to distribute some sort of dedicated player application, free or otherwise. I believe the fee for a cert to sign applications is currently $100/year. However, the iPhone doesn't have a shared filesystem, or helper-applications in the normal sense, At least not as far as I can tell. The work-around I'm aware of is for site authors to check if you're running on the iPhone in javascript, and rewrite the video elements to normal anchors with a custom schema, e.g. a href=oggplayer://example.com/file.ogvClick here to watch in Ogg Player/a. Then, if the user has installed the Ogg Player app, which registers itself has handling the 'oggplayer' schama, Safari will pass the custom uri to it, and it can download/stream/whathaveyou. -r ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world
Tell the users to complain to Apple? .. Bring up anti-competitive lawsuits against apple? Buy a Mobil device that is less locked down? There is no easy solution when the platform is a walled garden. There are two paths towards supporting html5 video in mobile platforms. 1) getting things working within the provided web browser platform or 2) running your own browser software as an application (we only should consider a normal phone obviously on a jail-broken device you can do lots of things... but that greatly reduces the possibility of wide deployment) I was looking at this situation for the iPhone and Android based phones. I think android based phones have a better shot at supporting ogg theora html5 video in the near term. In the long term the market will drive the devices to support ogg or not. iPhone 1) The internals of the quicktime/media system for the iPhone are not very exposed nor do they appear to be very extendable. 2) The Apple SDK agreement forbids virtual machines of any kind. This effectively makes competing web browsers illegal. Android / HTC phones: 1) I would hope google/android would ship theora/html5 support since theora will be supported in their desktop webkit based chrome browser. I think it would be relatively easy for a given android based phone distributer to support ogg once webkit on android supports html5 video. 2) Android recently added native code exposure: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-android-15-ndk-release-1.html I wonder if this could be a path for a port of Firefox or a custom version of the open source webkit browser on android? --michael David Gerard wrote: Another answer - it'd be custom app time. So the question is: what do we tell iPhone users? - d. -- Forwarded message -- From: Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com Date: 2009/7/10 Subject: Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world To: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com Cc: WHATWG Proposals wha...@lists.whatwg.org On Jul 9, 2009, at 2:59 PM, David Gerard wrote: The question is what to do for platforms such as the iPhone, which doesn't even run Java. Is there any way to install an additional codec in the iPhone browser? Is it (even theoretically) possible to put a free app on the AppStore just to play Ogg Theora video for our users? (There are many AppStore apps that support Ogg Vorbis, don't know if any support Theora - so presumably AppStore stuff doesn't give Apple the feared submarine patent exposure.) Just by way of factual information: There's no Java in the iPhone version of Safari. There are no browser plugins. There is no facility for systemwide codec plugins. There is no way to get an App Store app to launch automatically from Web content. I don't think there is any obstacle to posting an App Store app that does nothing but play videos from WikiPedia, the way the YouTube app plays YouTube videos. But I don't think there is a way to integrate it with browsing. Regards, Maciej ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Michael Dalemd...@wikimedia.org wrote: Tell the users to complain to Apple? .. Bring up anti-competitive lawsuits against apple? Buy a Mobil device that is less locked down? There is no easy solution when the platform is a walled garden. There are two paths towards supporting html5 video in mobile platforms. 1) getting things working within the provided web browser platform or 2) running your own browser software as an application (we only should consider a normal phone obviously on a jail-broken device you can do lots of things... but that greatly reduces the possibility of wide deployment) I was looking at this situation for the iPhone and Android based phones. I think android based phones have a better shot at supporting ogg theora html5 video in the near term. In the long term the market will drive the devices to support ogg or not. iPhone 1) The internals of the quicktime/media system for the iPhone are not very exposed nor do they appear to be very extendable. 2) The Apple SDK agreement forbids virtual machines of any kind. This effectively makes competing web browsers illegal. Android / HTC phones: 1) I would hope google/android would ship theora/html5 support since theora will be supported in their desktop webkit based chrome browser. I think it would be relatively easy for a given android based phone distributer to support ogg once webkit on android supports html5 video. 2) Android recently added native code exposure: http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2009/06/introducing-android-15-ndk-release-1.html I wonder if this could be a path for a port of Firefox or a custom version of the open source webkit browser on android? --michael David Gerard wrote: Another answer - it'd be custom app time. So the question is: what do we tell iPhone users? - d. -- Forwarded message -- From: Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com Date: 2009/7/10 Subject: Re: [whatwg] Serving up Theora video in the real world To: David Gerard dger...@gmail.com Cc: WHATWG Proposals wha...@lists.whatwg.org On Jul 9, 2009, at 2:59 PM, David Gerard wrote: The question is what to do for platforms such as the iPhone, which doesn't even run Java. Is there any way to install an additional codec in the iPhone browser? Is it (even theoretically) possible to put a free app on the AppStore just to play Ogg Theora video for our users? (There are many AppStore apps that support Ogg Vorbis, don't know if any support Theora - so presumably AppStore stuff doesn't give Apple the feared submarine patent exposure.) Just by way of factual information: There's no Java in the iPhone version of Safari. There are no browser plugins. There is no facility for systemwide codec plugins. There is no way to get an App Store app to launch automatically from Web content. I don't think there is any obstacle to posting an App Store app that does nothing but play videos from WikiPedia, the way the YouTube app plays YouTube videos. But I don't think there is a way to integrate it with browsing. Regards, Maciej ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l Don't want to go OT, but the NDK for Android is *awesome* and opens up a lot of really cool possibilities. -Chad ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
