Re: [Wikitech-l] Image uploading social workflow
Basically, I am happy enough with the upload wizard, and limiting the functionality to Commons-enabled licenses would be good enough for most of the use cases of casual image contributors. Yes, the assessment needs to be done by community specialist, but I think that is actually better separated than trying to limit the image contributions to those who understand enough about Creative Commons, Fair Use, etc. I would love to see page context (across page-wiki and commons-repo-wiki) and something like adding the images to a new-media-section on the page-wiki being added. License assessment, image selection, better image inclusion all being decoupled from image contribution. Neil, Erik: do you see a chance to put this into a wmf working plan? Gregor PS: I tried to test the AddMediaWizard on both 1.18 and 1.19 trunk. Is my analysis correct, that it cannot possible work? It requires enabling require_once( $IP/extensions/JS2Support/JS2Support.php ); which no longer seems to exist in wmf mediawiki subversion. If this is true, I think AddMediaWizard should also be removed from versions with which it no longer works as well. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Image uploading social workflow
On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Gregor Hagedorn g.m.haged...@gmail.com wrote: Socially, the Add Media Wizard is right direction, but it handles the workflow of inserting already available resources, it does not involve the scope of people able to contribute images. From what I recall, AMW supports uploading new images for immediate use as well as pulling them from Commons or other image repositories. Michael, please correct me if I'm wrong :) Roan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Image uploading social workflow
I wrote most of UploadWizard. I agree with all of your critiques. I think the idea of adding images to a new-images section makes sense, especially if we're talking about adding images from say a mobile device. It's unlikely that we'll have an appropriate way to place images on the page anytime soon. And, as others point out, Add Media Wizard was a lot more focused on what the average Wikipedian really wants, which is to add media to a page. UploadWizard did not really consider Wikipedia as a use case. Instead it was an attempt to make Wikimedia Commons easier to use in a very general case: uploading any number of images with any kind of characteristics (even if they all had different licensing characteristics, which is an extremely unusual use case). This is hard already. And unfortunately MediaWiki is almost perversely unsuited to the needs of the Commons community. So every time we made things easier, unless we took elaborate precautions (enforced in an ever-increasing pile of scripting hacks), we also made it easier to screw everything up. Right now it's starting to become more stable, assuming no other new features are demanded. AMW focused on areas where there were big wins to be had: - importing images from systems where the licenses and metadata were already guaranteed to be good for us - uploading a single new image, with no choice about license, etc, and a simple check for title uniqueness. Neither tool has figured out an easy way to deal with fair-use images, but I presume we would just use Commons and the default target and make the upload target dependent on license. But that ruins the existing UploadWizard flow (upload-then-annotate), but that is arguably wrong for other reasons -- it's unsuitable for very large files. All in all I think we need to start over with uploading tools appropriate for mobile and the new Visual Editor. A lot of the libraries in UW will be useful but it has to be rethought. On 12/18/11 5:22 AM, Gregor Hagedorn wrote: The improvements to the Upload Wizard are very welcome, but socially, I think it is still broken. Please correct me if I overlook something or overlook another extension. Socially, I believe many mediawiki extensions need a way to ask for images on a topic page, provide an upload wizard AND display the results on the topic page. Presently, even if the image is added to the wiki or a commons repository, it simply disappears in a black hole from the perspective of the contributing image author. I believe it is possible to have a wizard option which does the following: * store the page context from which it was called. * upload images to local wiki or a repository * open the page context in edit mode * search for some form of new-images-section ** a possible implementation of this could be a div with id=newimages containing a gallery tag * if new-images-section exists: add images, if not create with new images. * Save context page. Presently, WMF is possibly the biggest driver of open content (CC BY/CC BY-SA) but is able to collect images only from the small population that is the intersection of the population or people able to edit mediawiki and the huge population able to provide quality images. The new-images-section solution would probably not directly work for wikipedia itself; here some more complex review mechanism (new images gallery would be shown only to some users, including image uploader, or so) would be needed, perhaps in combination with flagged rev. I view this feature however potentially as a two step process: implement with direct addition to page, modify to optimize for flagged revs. However, I think something the described feature would be needed; presently all these crowdsourcing images are mostly collected by projects that either use no open content license at all, or the NC license at best. WMF is not able to exert its potential pull towards open content in this area. Also reported as https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33234 Gregor ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Neil Kandalgaonkar ( ne...@wikimedia.org ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Image uploading social workflow
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Neil Kandalgaonkar ne...@wikimedia.org wrote: Neither tool has figured out an easy way to deal with fair-use images, but I presume we would just use Commons and the default target and make the upload target dependent on license. But that ruins the existing UploadWizard flow (upload-then-annotate), but that is arguably wrong for other reasons -- it's unsuitable for very large files. I think everyone's in agreement that making it possible to invoke the uploader from the edit page, and building a more compact flow for small screens, would be great. I'm not sure I see a need to fundamentally change the UW-internal flow for the desktop site. I think if we had an It's fair use consistent with the policies of (language name) (site name) branch in the not my own work branch of Upload Wizard, that would be sufficient. And that branch would appear only if you invoke UW through a site that has a fair use policy configured. As you say, it would then use the alternative repository for uploading the file (namely the local site). The trickier bit is IMO the post-upload community interaction, and explaining to the user what's going on. As confusing as it is to send a user to a separate site, it at least makes it clear that they're interacting with an altogether different community. That understanding has to somehow come across, because chances are pretty good that the uploader will have to deal with the Commons community at some point. And that's where we get into improved messaging systems, user profiles, and such, at which points things get complicated pretty quickly. Although, with a confirmed email address, we can at least notify the uploader of any talk page messages on Commons. -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Image uploading social workflow
On 12/19/11 5:49 PM, Erik Moeller wrote: I'm not sure I see a need to fundamentally change the UW-internal flow for the desktop site. I think if we had an It's fair use consistent with the policies of (language name) (site name) branch in the not my own work branch of Upload Wizard, that would be sufficient. But by that time, you have already uploaded it to a particular wiki. We don't have any provision for moving the thing afterwards if the license is wrong for the wiki. Given the Swift backend, maybe that would be easier, but it still seems needlessly complex to me. -- Neil Kandalgaonkar ( ne...@wikimedia.org ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Image uploading social workflow
The improvements to the Upload Wizard are very welcome, but socially, I think it is still broken. Please correct me if I overlook something or overlook another extension. Socially, I believe many mediawiki extensions need a way to ask for images on a topic page, provide an upload wizard AND display the results on the topic page. Presently, even if the image is added to the wiki or a commons repository, it simply disappears in a black hole from the perspective of the contributing image author. I believe it is possible to have a wizard option which does the following: * store the page context from which it was called. * upload images to local wiki or a repository * open the page context in edit mode * search for some form of new-images-section ** a possible implementation of this could be a div with id=newimages containing a gallery tag * if new-images-section exists: add images, if not create with new images. * Save context page. Presently, WMF is possibly the biggest driver of open content (CC BY/CC BY-SA) but is able to collect images only from the small population that is the intersection of the population or people able to edit mediawiki and the huge population able to provide quality images. The new-images-section solution would probably not directly work for wikipedia itself; here some more complex review mechanism (new images gallery would be shown only to some users, including image uploader, or so) would be needed, perhaps in combination with flagged rev. I view this feature however potentially as a two step process: implement with direct addition to page, modify to optimize for flagged revs. However, I think something the described feature would be needed; presently all these crowdsourcing images are mostly collected by projects that either use no open content license at all, or the NC license at best. WMF is not able to exert its potential pull towards open content in this area. Also reported as https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33234 Gregor ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Image uploading social workflow
There was the Add Media Wizard project from a while back ( that sounds similar to what you describe ) http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Add_Media_Wizard I wanted to take a look at integrating upload wizard into it post TMH deployment, and or something new could be built as a gadget as well. --michael On 12/18/2011 07:22 AM, Gregor Hagedorn wrote: The improvements to the Upload Wizard are very welcome, but socially, I think it is still broken. Please correct me if I overlook something or overlook another extension. Socially, I believe many mediawiki extensions need a way to ask for images on a topic page, provide an upload wizard AND display the results on the topic page. Presently, even if the image is added to the wiki or a commons repository, it simply disappears in a black hole from the perspective of the contributing image author. I believe it is possible to have a wizard option which does the following: * store the page context from which it was called. * upload images to local wiki or a repository * open the page context in edit mode * search for some form of new-images-section ** a possible implementation of this could be a div with id=newimages containing a gallery tag * if new-images-section exists: add images, if not create with new images. * Save context page. Presently, WMF is possibly the biggest driver of open content (CC BY/CC BY-SA) but is able to collect images only from the small population that is the intersection of the population or people able to edit mediawiki and the huge population able to provide quality images. The new-images-section solution would probably not directly work for wikipedia itself; here some more complex review mechanism (new images gallery would be shown only to some users, including image uploader, or so) would be needed, perhaps in combination with flagged rev. I view this feature however potentially as a two step process: implement with direct addition to page, modify to optimize for flagged revs. However, I think something the described feature would be needed; presently all these crowdsourcing images are mostly collected by projects that either use no open content license at all, or the NC license at best. WMF is not able to exert its potential pull towards open content in this area. Also reported as https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33234 Gregor ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Image uploading social workflow
Socially, the Add Media Wizard is right direction, but it handles the workflow of inserting already available resources, it does not involve the scope of people able to contribute images. What I describe is like combining this directly with the upload, i.e. add the newly contributed media directly to a page in a preliminary fashion. From a user view, uploading an image suddenly breaks context, and it takes a lot of mediawiki mastery to put the uploaded image into context. Doing half of this work lets the media contributing user have success, and distributes work better according to abilities (all collaborators knowing mediawiki markup or project rules can review contributed images and put them into place or even remove again). Providing an extension that seamlessly integrates with upload wizard would be a huge achievement! Gregor ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
