Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet?
What are you seeing with the slim elevation radiation pattern? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/11/2010 12:19 AM, Robert West wrote: Working fine for me as well. Depending on the terrain, we use the smaller sectors as well as the larger ones. Small sectors going 6+ miles in flat open ground, larger ones are going 12+. With some trees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet? Hi Tom, Call me naive...not quiet sure what you are asking. specifically... We have a number of the smaller Ubiquiti Sectors in use Prior to your email it never occurred to me that I have to worry about cross pol rejection with MIMO antennas... But on the other hand I am also not trying to put 10miles link using those antennas All I can say they work perfectly fine.. :) Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/10/2010 7:32 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: The Ubiquiti dual pol antennas have been around for a while now. Has anyone gained any real world testing results regarding difference in performance for MIMO based on which antenna used. The two Ubiquiti sector types 16/17db versus 19/20db models have signficantly different specs on Cross pol rejection. As well, NanoStation makes a good 45 deg sector, at 14db, (14dbi + 22dbm = Max EIRP 36db for PTMP) with a bit less cross pol rejection than the others. From past experience, in any MIMO product in general, using PTP, I've observed that maximizing the Cross pol isolation is very advantageous to gain a highest performing links. (so pols dont interfere with each other at high modulations). In general, I'd get numbers like anything less than 35db isolation would result in quality loss. BUT... I've never tested with Ubiquiti yet. So my question here is Have people been successful using the smaller 16/17db Sector antennas successfully with MIMO? I can do the math and RF engineering, and I can predict that the larger 19/20 db antenna's have much better cross pol rejection, and combined with the third party shield made for them, to increase Front to Back ratio signficantly, they are an ideal choice for serious cell site deployments. But, for less critical smaller area deployments, I can see the adantage of using the smaller antennas to save space vertically. So just wondering what experience others are having with the 16/17db Ubiquiti Sectors. To be clear, the gain of the antenna is NOT my concern here. I interested in whether the Cross Pol rejection is good enough on shorter sector antenna to gain good MIMO quality. Note: short antenna speced at 22db cross pol isolation, whereas taller antenna speced at 28db cross pol. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Butch Evansbut...@butchevans.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB1100 On Tue, 2010-08-10 at 16:48 -0400, Chuck Hogg wrote: It's the same. All these distributors NAME their gear as their own devices. One distributor will support you without the added fees, and the other will charge you the fees. It's cheaper at Titan. When I owned QuickLink Wireless, it was these types of things that separated us from other distributors; how the customer was supported. This is exactly the point I was making. Titan is a great company to work with (this is from my own experience). My company is good to work with as well, though I didn't mention that. There are several companies out there that sell this (and other) hardware. The only difference is the company you end up dealing with. For some, Dennis is their choice..there is NO secret sauce in the routers themselves. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet?
Do you mean the narrow vertical beam width ? If you do the calcs, you will see that it is actually good to have this... With electrical down tilt built in most of the time the antenna is getting mounted 'flush'. in our case at lower heights we are doing an up-tilt It also allows you to 'reduce' your coverage area, but using additional down tilt... in-other words it has not been a show stopper. Actually, the small antenna size has been extremely well received by building owners... who are concerned about the aesthetics of a large antenna on top of their roof or side of the bldg. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 8/11/2010 10:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: What are you seeing with the slim elevation radiation pattern? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/11/2010 12:19 AM, Robert West wrote: Working fine for me as well. Depending on the terrain, we use the smaller sectors as well as the larger ones. Small sectors going 6+ miles in flat open ground, larger ones are going 12+. With some trees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet? Hi Tom, Call me naive...not quiet sure what you are asking. specifically... We have a number of the smaller Ubiquiti Sectors in use Prior to your email it never occurred to me that I have to worry about cross pol rejection with MIMO antennas... But on the other hand I am also not trying to put 10miles link using those antennas All I can say they work perfectly fine.. :) Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy InternetTelecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/10/2010 7:32 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: The Ubiquiti dual pol antennas have been around for a while now. Has anyone gained any real world testing results regarding difference in performance for MIMO based on which antenna used. The two Ubiquiti sector types 16/17db versus 19/20db models have signficantly different specs on Cross pol rejection. As well, NanoStation makes a good 45 deg sector, at 14db, (14dbi + 22dbm = Max EIRP 36db for PTMP) with a bit less cross pol rejection than the others. From past experience, in any MIMO product in general, using PTP, I've observed that maximizing the Cross pol isolation is very advantageous to gain a highest performing links. (so pols dont interfere with each other at high modulations). In general, I'd get numbers like anything less than 35db isolation would result in quality loss. BUT... I've never tested with Ubiquiti yet. So my question here is Have people been successful using the smaller 16/17db Sector antennas successfully with MIMO? I can do the math and RF engineering, and I can predict that the larger 19/20 db antenna's have much better cross pol rejection, and combined with the third party shield made for them, to increase Front to Back ratio signficantly, they are an ideal choice for serious cell site deployments. But, for less critical smaller area deployments, I can see the adantage of using the smaller antennas to save space vertically. So just wondering what experience others are having with the 16/17db Ubiquiti Sectors. To be clear, the gain of the antenna is NOT my concern here. I interested in whether the Cross Pol rejection is good enough on shorter sector antenna to gain good MIMO quality. Note: short antenna speced at 22db cross pol isolation, whereas taller antenna speced at 28db cross pol. Tom DeReggi RapidDSLWireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Butch Evansbut...@butchevans.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB1100 On Tue, 2010-08-10 at 16:48 -0400, Chuck Hogg wrote: It's the same. All these distributors NAME their gear as their own devices. One distributor will support you without the added fees, and the other will charge you the fees. It's cheaper at Titan. When I owned QuickLink Wireless, it was these types of things that separated us from other distributors; how the customer was supported. This is exactly the point I was making. Titan is a great company to work with (this is from my own experience). My company is good to work with as well, though I didn't mention that. There are several companies out there that sell this (and other) hardware. The only difference is the company you end up dealing with. For some, Dennis is their choice..there is NO secret sauce in the routers themselves. -- * Butch Evans
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet?
Yeah, yeah, same thing. So you're not seeing coverage issues with the narrow vertical beam width of the higher gain antenna? I'd think something that narrow to be difficult to do short and long links. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/11/2010 10:47 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Do you mean the narrow vertical beam width ? If you do the calcs, you will see that it is actually good to have this... With electrical down tilt built in most of the time the antenna is getting mounted 'flush'. in our case at lower heights we are doing an up-tilt It also allows you to 'reduce' your coverage area, but using additional down tilt... in-other words it has not been a show stopper. Actually, the small antenna size has been extremely well received by building owners... who are concerned about the aesthetics of a large antenna on top of their roof or side of the bldg. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 8/11/2010 10:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: What are you seeing with the slim elevation radiation pattern? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/11/2010 12:19 AM, Robert West wrote: Working fine for me as well. Depending on the terrain, we use the smaller sectors as well as the larger ones. Small sectors going 6+ miles in flat open ground, larger ones are going 12+. With some trees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet? Hi Tom, Call me naive...not quiet sure what you are asking. specifically... We have a number of the smaller Ubiquiti Sectors in use Prior to your email it never occurred to me that I have to worry about cross pol rejection with MIMO antennas... But on the other hand I am also not trying to put 10miles link using those antennas All I can say they work perfectly fine.. :) Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/10/2010 7:32 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: The Ubiquiti dual pol antennas have been around for a while now. Has anyone gained any real world testing results regarding difference in performance for MIMO based on which antenna used. The two Ubiquiti sector types 16/17db versus 19/20db models have signficantly different specs on Cross pol rejection. As well, NanoStation makes a good 45 deg sector, at 14db, (14dbi + 22dbm = Max EIRP 36db for PTMP) with a bit less cross pol rejection than the others. From past experience, in any MIMO product in general, using PTP, I've observed that maximizing the Cross pol isolation is very advantageous to gain a highest performing links. (so pols dont interfere with each other at high modulations). In general, I'd get numbers like anything less than 35db isolation would result in quality loss. BUT... I've never tested with Ubiquiti yet. So my question here is Have people been successful using the smaller 16/17db Sector antennas successfully with MIMO? I can do the math and RF engineering, and I can predict that the larger 19/20 db antenna's have much better cross pol rejection, and combined with the third party shield made for them, to increase Front to Back ratio signficantly, they are an ideal choice for serious cell site deployments. But, for less critical smaller area deployments, I can see the adantage of using the smaller antennas to save space vertically. So just wondering what experience others are having with the 16/17db Ubiquiti Sectors. To be clear, the gain of the antenna is NOT my concern here. I interested in whether the Cross Pol rejection is good enough on shorter sector antenna to gain good MIMO quality. Note: short antenna speced at 22db cross pol isolation, whereas taller antenna speced at 28db cross pol. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Butch Evansbut...@butchevans.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB1100 On Tue, 2010-08-10 at 16:48 -0400, Chuck Hogg wrote: It's the same. All these distributors NAME their gear as their own devices. One distributor will support you without the added fees, and the other will charge you the fees. It's cheaper at Titan. When I owned QuickLink Wireless, it was these types of things that separated us from other distributors; how the customer was supported. This is exactly the point I was making. Titan is a great company to work with (this is from my own experience). My company is good to work with as well, though I didn't mention that. There are several companies out there that sell
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet?
.If you do the calculations, you may be surprised as to how much coverage you can get with the narrow beam width... (it is function of AP height as well)... The only time you run into a problem, is when you are trying to do a 1/4mile or 1/2 mile link and 10mile link off the same panelbut then again, doing something like such also has other issues associated with it.. Since the radios are in-expensive... do the 1/4 mile / 1/2mile or even 1 mile link with something like a Nanobridge (10 dish)... and leave the panel along for the longer links. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/11/2010 12:02 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Yeah, yeah, same thing. So you're not seeing coverage issues with the narrow vertical beam width of the higher gain antenna? I'd think something that narrow to be difficult to do short and long links. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/11/2010 10:47 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Do you mean the narrow vertical beam width ? If you do the calcs, you will see that it is actually good to have this... With electrical down tilt built in most of the time the antenna is getting mounted 'flush'. in our case at lower heights we are doing an up-tilt It also allows you to 'reduce' your coverage area, but using additional down tilt... in-other words it has not been a show stopper. Actually, the small antenna size has been extremely well received by building owners... who are concerned about the aesthetics of a large antenna on top of their roof or side of the bldg. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy InternetTelecom On 8/11/2010 10:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: What are you seeing with the slim elevation radiation pattern? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/11/2010 12:19 AM, Robert West wrote: Working fine for me as well. Depending on the terrain, we use the smaller sectors as well as the larger ones. Small sectors going 6+ miles in flat open ground, larger ones are going 12+. With some trees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet? Hi Tom, Call me naive...not quiet sure what you are asking. specifically... We have a number of the smaller Ubiquiti Sectors in use Prior to your email it never occurred to me that I have to worry about cross pol rejection with MIMO antennas... But on the other hand I am also not trying to put 10miles link using those antennas All I can say they work perfectly fine.. :) Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/10/2010 7:32 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: The Ubiquiti dual pol antennas have been around for a while now. Has anyone gained any real world testing results regarding difference in performance for MIMO based on which antenna used. The two Ubiquiti sector types 16/17db versus 19/20db models have signficantly different specs on Cross pol rejection. As well, NanoStation makes a good 45 deg sector, at 14db, (14dbi + 22dbm = Max EIRP 36db for PTMP) with a bit less cross pol rejection than the others. From past experience, in any MIMO product in general, using PTP, I've observed that maximizing the Cross pol isolation is very advantageous to gain a highest performing links. (so pols dont interfere with each other at high modulations). In general, I'd get numbers like anything less than 35db isolation would result in quality loss. BUT... I've never tested with Ubiquiti yet. So my question here is Have people been successful using the smaller 16/17db Sector antennas successfully with MIMO? I can do the math and RF engineering, and I can predict that the larger 19/20 db antenna's have much better cross pol rejection, and combined with the third party shield made for them, to increase Front to Back ratio signficantly, they are an ideal choice for serious cell site deployments. But, for less critical smaller area deployments, I can see the adantage of using the smaller antennas to save space vertically. So just wondering what experience others are having with the 16/17db Ubiquiti Sectors. To be clear, the gain of the antenna is NOT my concern here. I interested in whether the Cross Pol rejection is good enough on shorter sector antenna to gain good MIMO quality. Note: short antenna speced at 22db cross pol isolation, whereas taller antenna speced at 28db cross pol. Tom
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet?
There is a tendency among installers to assume that if they are close they can get away with less antenna. If they understand the relationship between gain and pattern they will be less likely to make this mistake. Sometimes we can be 1 mile from the antenna but since it's 3500' up we are looking at the bottom of the lobe and consequently the available gain from the 17dB antenna is closer to 6dB. - Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet? .If you do the calculations, you may be surprised as to how much coverage you can get with the narrow beam width... (it is function of AP height as well)... The only time you run into a problem, is when you are trying to do a 1/4mile or 1/2 mile link and 10mile link off the same panelbut then again, doing something like such also has other issues associated with it.. Since the radios are in-expensive... do the 1/4 mile / 1/2mile or even 1 mile link with something like a Nanobridge (10 dish)... and leave the panel along for the longer links. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/11/2010 12:02 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Yeah, yeah, same thing. So you're not seeing coverage issues with the narrow vertical beam width of the higher gain antenna? I'd think something that narrow to be difficult to do short and long links. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/11/2010 10:47 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Do you mean the narrow vertical beam width ? If you do the calcs, you will see that it is actually good to have this... With electrical down tilt built in most of the time the antenna is getting mounted 'flush'. in our case at lower heights we are doing an up-tilt It also allows you to 'reduce' your coverage area, but using additional down tilt... in-other words it has not been a show stopper. Actually, the small antenna size has been extremely well received by building owners... who are concerned about the aesthetics of a large antenna on top of their roof or side of the bldg. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy InternetTelecom On 8/11/2010 10:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: What are you seeing with the slim elevation radiation pattern? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/11/2010 12:19 AM, Robert West wrote: Working fine for me as well. Depending on the terrain, we use the smaller sectors as well as the larger ones. Small sectors going 6+ miles in flat open ground, larger ones are going 12+. With some trees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet? Hi Tom, Call me naive...not quiet sure what you are asking. specifically... We have a number of the smaller Ubiquiti Sectors in use Prior to your email it never occurred to me that I have to worry about cross pol rejection with MIMO antennas... But on the other hand I am also not trying to put 10miles link using those antennas All I can say they work perfectly fine.. :) Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/10/2010 7:32 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: The Ubiquiti dual pol antennas have been around for a while now. Has anyone gained any real world testing results regarding difference in performance for MIMO based on which antenna used. The two Ubiquiti sector types 16/17db versus 19/20db models have signficantly different specs on Cross pol rejection. As well, NanoStation makes a good 45 deg sector, at 14db, (14dbi + 22dbm = Max EIRP 36db for PTMP) with a bit less cross pol rejection than the others. From past experience, in any MIMO product in general, using PTP, I've observed that maximizing the Cross pol isolation is very advantageous to gain a highest performing links. (so pols dont interfere with each other at high modulations). In general, I'd get numbers like anything less than 35db isolation would result in quality loss. BUT... I've never tested with Ubiquiti yet. So my question here is Have people been successful using the smaller 16/17db Sector antennas successfully with MIMO? I can do the math and RF engineering, and I can predict that the larger 19/20 db antenna's have much better cross pol rejection, and combined with the third party shield made
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet?
Well Said. Faisal Snappy Internet Telecom On 8/11/2010 12:22 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote: There is a tendency among installers to assume that if they are close they can get away with less antenna. If they understand the relationship between gain and pattern they will be less likely to make this mistake. Sometimes we can be 1 mile from the antenna but since it's 3500' up we are looking at the bottom of the lobe and consequently the available gain from the 17dB antenna is closer to 6dB. - Jerry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 9:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet? .If you do the calculations, you may be surprised as to how much coverage you can get with the narrow beam width... (it is function of AP height as well)... The only time you run into a problem, is when you are trying to do a 1/4mile or 1/2 mile link and 10mile link off the same panelbut then again, doing something like such also has other issues associated with it.. Since the radios are in-expensive... do the 1/4 mile / 1/2mile or even 1 mile link with something like a Nanobridge (10 dish)... and leave the panel along for the longer links. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/11/2010 12:02 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Yeah, yeah, same thing. So you're not seeing coverage issues with the narrow vertical beam width of the higher gain antenna? I'd think something that narrow to be difficult to do short and long links. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/11/2010 10:47 AM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Do you mean the narrow vertical beam width ? If you do the calcs, you will see that it is actually good to have this... With electrical down tilt built in most of the time the antenna is getting mounted 'flush'. in our case at lower heights we are doing an up-tilt It also allows you to 'reduce' your coverage area, but using additional down tilt... in-other words it has not been a show stopper. Actually, the small antenna size has been extremely well received by building owners... who are concerned about the aesthetics of a large antenna on top of their roof or side of the bldg. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 8/11/2010 10:50 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: What are you seeing with the slim elevation radiation pattern? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/11/2010 12:19 AM, Robert West wrote: Working fine for me as well. Depending on the terrain, we use the smaller sectors as well as the larger ones. Small sectors going 6+ miles in flat open ground, larger ones are going 12+. With some trees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet? Hi Tom, Call me naive...not quiet sure what you are asking. specifically... We have a number of the smaller Ubiquiti Sectors in use Prior to your email it never occurred to me that I have to worry about cross pol rejection with MIMO antennas... But on the other hand I am also not trying to put 10miles link using those antennas All I can say they work perfectly fine.. :) Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/10/2010 7:32 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: The Ubiquiti dual pol antennas have been around for a while now. Has anyone gained any real world testing results regarding difference in performance for MIMO based on which antenna used. The two Ubiquiti sector types 16/17db versus 19/20db models have signficantly different specs on Cross pol rejection. As well, NanoStation makes a good 45 deg sector, at 14db, (14dbi + 22dbm = Max EIRP 36db for PTMP) with a bit less cross pol rejection than the others. From past experience, in any MIMO product in general, using PTP, I've observed that maximizing the Cross pol isolation is very advantageous to gain a highest performing links. (so pols dont interfere with each other at high modulations). In general, I'd get numbers like anything less than 35db isolation would result in quality loss. BUT... I've never tested with Ubiquiti yet. So my question here is Have people been successful using the smaller 16/17db Sector antennas successfully with MIMO? I can do the math and RF
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet?
Hi Tom, Call me naive...not quiet sure what you are asking. specifically... We have a number of the smaller Ubiquiti Sectors in use Prior to your email it never occurred to me that I have to worry about cross pol rejection with MIMO antennas... But on the other hand I am also not trying to put 10miles link using those antennas All I can say they work perfectly fine.. :) Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/10/2010 7:32 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: The Ubiquiti dual pol antennas have been around for a while now. Has anyone gained any real world testing results regarding difference in performance for MIMO based on which antenna used. The two Ubiquiti sector types 16/17db versus 19/20db models have signficantly different specs on Cross pol rejection. As well, NanoStation makes a good 45 deg sector, at 14db, (14dbi + 22dbm = Max EIRP 36db for PTMP) with a bit less cross pol rejection than the others. From past experience, in any MIMO product in general, using PTP, I've observed that maximizing the Cross pol isolation is very advantageous to gain a highest performing links. (so pols dont interfere with each other at high modulations). In general, I'd get numbers like anything less than 35db isolation would result in quality loss. BUT... I've never tested with Ubiquiti yet. So my question here is Have people been successful using the smaller 16/17db Sector antennas successfully with MIMO? I can do the math and RF engineering, and I can predict that the larger 19/20 db antenna's have much better cross pol rejection, and combined with the third party shield made for them, to increase Front to Back ratio signficantly, they are an ideal choice for serious cell site deployments. But, for less critical smaller area deployments, I can see the adantage of using the smaller antennas to save space vertically. So just wondering what experience others are having with the 16/17db Ubiquiti Sectors. To be clear, the gain of the antenna is NOT my concern here. I interested in whether the Cross Pol rejection is good enough on shorter sector antenna to gain good MIMO quality. Note: short antenna speced at 22db cross pol isolation, whereas taller antenna speced at 28db cross pol. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Butch Evansbut...@butchevans.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB1100 On Tue, 2010-08-10 at 16:48 -0400, Chuck Hogg wrote: It's the same. All these distributors NAME their gear as their own devices. One distributor will support you without the added fees, and the other will charge you the fees. It's cheaper at Titan. When I owned QuickLink Wireless, it was these types of things that separated us from other distributors; how the customer was supported. This is exactly the point I was making. Titan is a great company to work with (this is from my own experience). My company is good to work with as well, though I didn't mention that. There are several companies out there that sell this (and other) hardware. The only difference is the company you end up dealing with. For some, Dennis is their choice..there is NO secret sauce in the routers themselves. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet?
Working fine for me as well. Depending on the terrain, we use the smaller sectors as well as the larger ones. Small sectors going 6+ miles in flat open ground, larger ones are going 12+. With some trees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ubiquiti antenna testing yet? Hi Tom, Call me naive...not quiet sure what you are asking. specifically... We have a number of the smaller Ubiquiti Sectors in use Prior to your email it never occurred to me that I have to worry about cross pol rejection with MIMO antennas... But on the other hand I am also not trying to put 10miles link using those antennas All I can say they work perfectly fine.. :) Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/10/2010 7:32 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: The Ubiquiti dual pol antennas have been around for a while now. Has anyone gained any real world testing results regarding difference in performance for MIMO based on which antenna used. The two Ubiquiti sector types 16/17db versus 19/20db models have signficantly different specs on Cross pol rejection. As well, NanoStation makes a good 45 deg sector, at 14db, (14dbi + 22dbm = Max EIRP 36db for PTMP) with a bit less cross pol rejection than the others. From past experience, in any MIMO product in general, using PTP, I've observed that maximizing the Cross pol isolation is very advantageous to gain a highest performing links. (so pols dont interfere with each other at high modulations). In general, I'd get numbers like anything less than 35db isolation would result in quality loss. BUT... I've never tested with Ubiquiti yet. So my question here is Have people been successful using the smaller 16/17db Sector antennas successfully with MIMO? I can do the math and RF engineering, and I can predict that the larger 19/20 db antenna's have much better cross pol rejection, and combined with the third party shield made for them, to increase Front to Back ratio signficantly, they are an ideal choice for serious cell site deployments. But, for less critical smaller area deployments, I can see the adantage of using the smaller antennas to save space vertically. So just wondering what experience others are having with the 16/17db Ubiquiti Sectors. To be clear, the gain of the antenna is NOT my concern here. I interested in whether the Cross Pol rejection is good enough on shorter sector antenna to gain good MIMO quality. Note: short antenna speced at 22db cross pol isolation, whereas taller antenna speced at 28db cross pol. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Butch Evansbut...@butchevans.com To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] RB1100 On Tue, 2010-08-10 at 16:48 -0400, Chuck Hogg wrote: It's the same. All these distributors NAME their gear as their own devices. One distributor will support you without the added fees, and the other will charge you the fees. It's cheaper at Titan. When I owned QuickLink Wireless, it was these types of things that separated us from other distributors; how the customer was supported. This is exactly the point I was making. Titan is a great company to work with (this is from my own experience). My company is good to work with as well, though I didn't mention that. There are several companies out there that sell this (and other) hardware. The only difference is the company you end up dealing with. For some, Dennis is their choice..there is NO secret sauce in the routers themselves. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
