Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
On 26/02/2010 16:54, wpkg-users-requ...@lists.wpkg.org wrote: -- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:00:39 +1000 From: Peter Goughpmgo...@gmail.com To: Chris Wilcoxnot_rich_...@hotmail.com Cc: wpkgwpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org Subject: Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install? Message-ID: bc5993021002260400h5f14b25as891baaffdfd78...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 snip My advice would be to setup a test environment first, rollout wpkg to a select pilot group of patient users and then introduce the across the rest of your machines. BTW are users really able to install anything they want in your environment? Sounds like a recipe for potential disaster! We're a pretty small place, and I'm pretty new. Most of the software in question is stuff present when I started, and I'm not sure people will take well to having Windows reinstalled on their PCs. We already have a test environment of sorts - the computer suite open to the public has WPKG in use. But it's a general 'does this work well' test, rather than testing specific cases, and most of those PCs needed a fresh windows install anyway. Thanks everyone for the help. I think I can be reasonably confident wpkg won't clobber stuff. I'm always using latest versions, so I don't need to worry about WPKG replacing eg Fx 3.6 with Fx 3.5. Someone did mention a /noremove switch though. I presume this makes WPKG not remove stuff, ever. Since I'm unlikely to want to remove stuff using wpkg, how can I use this switch or an equivalent configuration option? - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
If the software has something that can be checked install checks are written
properly you can have a minimum version or something similar. In my environment
I want specific versions installed so as to be able to properly support my
environment so I specify exact version information as much as possible.
On the same note it is possible for WPKG to be used to remove software it
didn't install but I have found it is somewhat non-obvious and difficult. I've
done this on machines where I had only remote access and didn't want to give
the user local admin.
Here's how I've done it:
NOTES :
1] You must do this per machine.
2] You must have access to the local machine's c:\windows\system32\wpkg.xml
3] You need the uninstall command for the software in question.
Define a package for the software to be removed and add it to the specific
host's profile. In my case I was downgrading some people from Visio Pro to
Visio Std. Do not do install checks (you already know the software's there or
else why would you be removing it???). Here's the removal package for Visio
2003 Pro I made:
package id=RemVisio2003Pro name=RemVisio2003Pro revision=1
reboot=false priority=0
install cmd='c:\windows\system32\MsiExec.exe
/x{90510409-6000-11D3-8CFE-0150048383C9} /q'/
/package
Restart WPKG Service. Wait for it to finish processing the package (can be
confirmed via application event log). Stop the WPKG Service and delete the
wpkg.xml file on the client. Remove the package from the host profile of the
client PC and start the client's WPKG Service back up.
Kind regards,
Bill Prentice
K.T.J.R.
Striving for R.F.C. 1925 compliance
-Original Message-
From: wpkg-users-boun...@lists.wpkg.org
[mailto:wpkg-users-boun...@lists.wpkg.org] On Behalf Of Rainer Meier
Sent: Saturday, 27 February, 2010 07:38
To: pmgo...@gmail.com
Cc: wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org
Subject: Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
Hi Peter,
On 27.02.2010 13:07, Peter Gough wrote:
I only offer my advice based on my own experience which is that without
careful testing it is difficult to predict exactly what the
implementation of wpkg will have. I've certainly tripped up more than
once as a result of my own ill-conceived check conditions. This isn't
the fault of wpkg, which has done exactly what I've asked it to do, but
for somebody implementing wpkg in their own 'virgin' environment I think
it is important to spell out the potential for adversely impacting their
existing software installations.
Yes i think you're absolutely right that a complex system like WPKG could make
people believe that it sometimes does something which was not intended. Just due
to the fact that the user did not know about any effect of its acting.
Well, I think the topic here is well-clarified now and I hope Thomas is fine
with the answer and knows about the intended effects of using WPKG and probably
also about some side-effects he might experience.
Thanks for the discussion ;-)
br,
Rainer
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Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
Hi Tomas, Someone did mention a /noremove switch though. I presume this makes WPKG not remove stuff, ever. Since I'm unlikely to want to remove stuff using wpkg, how can I use this switch or an equivalent configuration option? I do not recommend to use this switch in production. Mainly due to the reason that if you use this switch, then WPKG will also not remove software if this is your intention. For example you might replace mail client X by mail client Y so you remove mail client X from the profile and add mail client Y instead. If you use the /noremove switch then WPKG will skip the uninstall commands for mail client X and will therefore not remove it. This is especially a problem if mail client Y conflicts with mail client X. You might just use this option in a test environment first and have a look at your event log or WPKG logs to check if WPKG would have executed any remove instructions. If you are confident that it will not (and I promise it will not) then remove the /noremove switch again. The switch can either be attached to the command line instruction when wpkg.js is invoked (typically by WPKG client) or set in config.xml. I strongly recommend to set it in config.xml so you can switch off the noremove option later without having to re-deploy new settings to your clients because the switch is then only set on server side in config.xml and not stored on each client. br, Rainer - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
Hi Peter, Simply put if for some reason I decide to rollout Firefox v3.5 to all of my clients but some of my users have already installed v3.6 then wpkg may install the older version over the top of the newer version assuming I use a check condition that specifies the file version as v3.5.. In this scenario wpkg.js would check for the v3.5 file and when it doesn't find it then it would attempt to install v3.5 using the install commands in the package definition file, regardless of whether v3.6 is installed or not. But in this case I would consider this to be exactly the expected behavior. You're assigning a Firefox package to the profile which is assigned to a specific host. So you want to make sure this host has Firefox 3.5 installed. So WPKG will assure assuming you pass the necessary commands to WPKG. It would also be possible to ALLOW people to install new versions by defining the checks accordingly (allow version 3.5 or higher). So from my point of view your scenario does not apply at all to the question whether WPKG will touch software not under its control or not. At the time you assign the Firefox package to the host it's under WPKG control (no matter which version might be on the host already). Then it's also clear that WPKG will remove Firefox once you remove the package from the profile in the future. But this case is the package under WPKG control use case and not related at all to the case of Tomas where he asked if a completely unrelated package will be touched by WPKG. I understood the question in a way that he wants to know if WPKG will uninstall Microsoft Office if he has a Microsoft Office package in packages.xml but it's not assigned to the host but installed on the host already. The answer to this question is simply No because WPKG will not look for Microsoft Office on this system as long as the package is not assigned to the host. WPKG will only take control of software packages which are assigned to the host at any point in time. br, Rainer - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
Yes, all true and well worth clarification. I only offer my advice based on my own experience which is that without careful testing it is difficult to predict exactly what the implementation of wpkg will have. I've certainly tripped up more than once as a result of my own ill-conceived check conditions. This isn't the fault of wpkg, which has done exactly what I've asked it to do, but for somebody implementing wpkg in their own 'virgin' environment I think it is important to spell out the potential for adversely impacting their existing software installations. On 27 February 2010 19:23, Rainer Meier r.me...@wpkg.org wrote: Hi Peter, Simply put if for some reason I decide to rollout Firefox v3.5 to all of my clients but some of my users have already installed v3.6 then wpkg may install the older version over the top of the newer version assuming I use a check condition that specifies the file version as v3.5.. In this scenario wpkg.js would check for the v3.5 file and when it doesn't find it then it would attempt to install v3.5 using the install commands in the package definition file, regardless of whether v3.6 is installed or not. But in this case I would consider this to be exactly the expected behavior. You're assigning a Firefox package to the profile which is assigned to a specific host. So you want to make sure this host has Firefox 3.5 installed. So WPKG will assure assuming you pass the necessary commands to WPKG. It would also be possible to ALLOW people to install new versions by defining the checks accordingly (allow version 3.5 or higher). So from my point of view your scenario does not apply at all to the question whether WPKG will touch software not under its control or not. At the time you assign the Firefox package to the host it's under WPKG control (no matter which version might be on the host already). Then it's also clear that WPKG will remove Firefox once you remove the package from the profile in the future. But this case is the package under WPKG control use case and not related at all to the case of Tomas where he asked if a completely unrelated package will be touched by WPKG. I understood the question in a way that he wants to know if WPKG will uninstall Microsoft Office if he has a Microsoft Office package in packages.xml but it's not assigned to the host but installed on the host already. The answer to this question is simply No because WPKG will not look for Microsoft Office on this system as long as the package is not assigned to the host. WPKG will only take control of software packages which are assigned to the host at any point in time. br, Rainer - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
Hi Peter, On 27.02.2010 13:07, Peter Gough wrote: I only offer my advice based on my own experience which is that without careful testing it is difficult to predict exactly what the implementation of wpkg will have. I've certainly tripped up more than once as a result of my own ill-conceived check conditions. This isn't the fault of wpkg, which has done exactly what I've asked it to do, but for somebody implementing wpkg in their own 'virgin' environment I think it is important to spell out the potential for adversely impacting their existing software installations. Yes i think you're absolutely right that a complex system like WPKG could make people believe that it sometimes does something which was not intended. Just due to the fact that the user did not know about any effect of its acting. Well, I think the topic here is well-clarified now and I hope Thomas is fine with the answer and knows about the intended effects of using WPKG and probably also about some side-effects he might experience. Thanks for the discussion ;-) br, Rainer - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:33:20 + From: jetsho...@o2.co.uk To: wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org Subject: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install? Will wpkg uninstall software it did not install, if said software is installed on the computer, has an entry in packages.xml, but is not in the relevant profile? The desired behaviour for myself is that wpkg _not_ do that. Since users are allowed to install their own software if they want. WPKG will only manage software it installs/uninstalls, it will not touch user installed software. Chris _ Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us now http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/- wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
My experience is that this is *mostly* true. For example if you decide to roll out v1 of a package but a user has already manually installed v2 and your check only looks for v1 files then you could potentially have a situation where wpkg tries to install the older version on top of the newer version. This would happen when your check conditions fail even if the software is already installed. My advice would be to setup a test environment first, rollout wpkg to a select pilot group of patient users and then introduce the across the rest of your machines. BTW are users really able to install anything they want in your environment? Sounds like a recipe for potential disaster! On 26 February 2010 21:50, Chris Wilcox not_rich_...@hotmail.com wrote: Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 11:33:20 + From: jetsho...@o2.co.uk To: wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org Subject: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install? Will wpkg uninstall software it did not install, if said software is installed on the computer, has an entry in packages.xml, but is not in the relevant profile? The desired behaviour for myself is that wpkg _not_ do that. Since users are allowed to install their own software if they want. WPKG will only manage software it installs/uninstalls, it will not touch user installed software. Chris -- Got a cool Hotmail story? Tell us nowhttp://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
Will wpkg uninstall software it did not install, if said software is installed on the computer, has an entry in packages.xml, but is not in the relevant profile? The desired behaviour for myself is that wpkg _not_ do that. Since users are allowed to install their own software if they want. WPKG does __not__ manage software, which is not part of the profile for the computer. WPKG will manage software, which it did not install, but is part of the profile of the computer. WPKG does __not__ scan the installed software and remove anything, which does not match the profile of the computer. --- Stefan - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
-Original Message- Will wpkg uninstall software it did not install, if said software is installed on the computer, has an entry in packages.xml, but is not in the relevant profile? The desired behaviour for myself is that wpkg _not_ do that. Since users are allowed to install their own software if they want. WPKG does __not__ manage software, which is not part of the profile for the computer. I believe that statement isn't quite accurate. WPKG will manage software that is part of the profile, but also software that has been part of the profile and was later removed from it. At least, as long as the client has seen the prior version of the profile, and you don't use the /noremove switch. Or am I wrong here? WPKG will manage software, which it did not install, but is part of the profile of the computer. WPKG does __not__ scan the installed software and remove anything, which does not match the profile of the computer. To be honest, I don't completely trust WPKG in this respect. I have never been able to conclusively determine any scenario, but I could have sworn I had seen WPKG remove software that had never been part of the profile (even after we discussed it on this list a couple months ago). In the end, for me it has not become much of an issue for me - I simply don't add packages for those things I want to be certain about. - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
Hi Kevin, On 26.02.2010 23:19, Kevin Keane wrote: WPKG does __not__ scan the installed software and remove anything, which does not match the profile of the computer. To be honest, I don't completely trust WPKG in this respect. I have never been able to conclusively determine any scenario, but I could have sworn I had seen WPKG remove software that had never been part of the profile (even after we discussed it on this list a couple months ago). This would be quite magic since there is no code in wpkg.js to scan for software which is not within the profile assigned to the host and which was never part of the profile. So WPKG does never touch any part of the system which is not under its control (means not within the profile at any time). WPKG also never executes commands you didn not specify within the package definition. So if you do not have any commands which could make WPKG to remove Firefox it will never be able to remove it. Even if you have a Firefox package in your packages.xml which is NOT assigned to the host WPKG will never ever run any of these commands unless you assign that package to the host at least once. If you find a reproducible case where WPKG would invent some code/commands please let me know, I would be very interested to analyze it. br, Rainer - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
Re: [wpkg-users] Will WPKG uninstall software it did not install?
Agreed but this isn't the scenario I was describing. Simply put if for some reason I decide to rollout Firefox v3.5 to all of my clients but some of my users have already installed v3.6 then wpkg may install the older version over the top of the newer version assuming I use a check condition that specifies the file version as v3.5.. In this scenario wpkg.js would check for the v3.5 file and when it doesn't find it then it would attempt to install v3.5 using the install commands in the package definition file, regardless of whether v3.6 is installed or not. That's why I was recommending being very careful when writing check conditions and running a full test and a small pilot group first before implementing wpkg. On 27 February 2010 09:22, Rainer Meier r.me...@wpkg.org wrote: Hi Kevin, On 26.02.2010 23:19, Kevin Keane wrote: WPKG does __not__ scan the installed software and remove anything, which does not match the profile of the computer. To be honest, I don't completely trust WPKG in this respect. I have never been able to conclusively determine any scenario, but I could have sworn I had seen WPKG remove software that had never been part of the profile (even after we discussed it on this list a couple months ago). This would be quite magic since there is no code in wpkg.js to scan for software which is not within the profile assigned to the host and which was never part of the profile. So WPKG does never touch any part of the system which is not under its control (means not within the profile at any time). WPKG also never executes commands you didn not specify within the package definition. So if you do not have any commands which could make WPKG to remove Firefox it will never be able to remove it. Even if you have a Firefox package in your packages.xml which is NOT assigned to the host WPKG will never ever run any of these commands unless you assign that package to the host at least once. If you find a reproducible case where WPKG would invent some code/commands please let me know, I would be very interested to analyze it. br, Rainer - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users - wpkg-users mailing list archives http://lists.wpkg.org/pipermail/wpkg-users/ ___ wpkg-users mailing list wpkg-users@lists.wpkg.org http://lists.wpkg.org/mailman/listinfo/wpkg-users
