Re: [WSG] Print Style Sheet Inconsistencies
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Chris Stratford wrote: 1) Printing IGNORES all background attributes... This is understandable - but I didn't realise this until just now... So my LI background elements weren't printing (or showing in Print Preview which is how I check what it looks like) A small consolation: you can set your browser to print background colours and images. But yes, out of the box, these will indeed not be printed. 2) FireFox Ignores Custom LI background elements (the proper method with: list-style-image: url(../media/ul_li_point.gif); - not using a background image) This is very annoying, because basically if you want to include the custom element in a print now - I need to put the image inside the li... This must be a bug or a mistake on Moz's behalf?? IE will print the background LI element - which is good! I think that is the way it should be? Or is there a reason why Moz has done this? This is only a stricter enforcement of 1). It's a bit schizophrenic of IE to give users the option not to print background colours and images, but then happily still doing it for things like LI. In my mind FF is correct here. I dont know if I explained it correctly - or if you understoood what I meant. But the problem I am having is the LIST BULLET are printing in IE, but not FF... Why wouldn't FF print List Bullets? I believe that the bullets are crucial to the operation of ULs... I may aswell use a p tag with some br /s. Anyone else have anything to say on the topic? -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Print Style Sheet Inconsistencies
From: Chris Stratford I dont know if I explained it correctly - or if you understoood what I meant. But the problem I am having is the LIST BULLET are printing in IE, but not FF... Ah ok, I thought you had used trickery with background images. Fair enough, it looks like a wrong-ish interpretation on FF's part (by the look of it, it just ignores *any* images set via CSS). Why wouldn't FF print List Bullets? I believe that the bullets are crucial to the operation of ULs... I may aswell use a p tag with some br /s. To work around it at the moment, may be worth doing a separate print stylesheet which reverts to normal default bullets rather than list style images. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Site Checking
Hi Folks, This is my first message to the list, but I have been watching for a little while. Weldon to the Administrators for maintaining a good list, and to the posters for keeping the list so busy! Anyway, the company I work for (Netring) has starting producing web standards complaint sites since I started working for them in July. I now think it would be good to allow you guys to check some of the sites we have been doing over the last couple of weeks to see if there is anything we are missing. I have no doubt that there ways we can improve our techniques, so please let us know. These sites are all on our development server, so the links might not stay alive for people looking through the archives of this list: http://dev.netring.co.uk/teifiscaffolding/ http://dev.netring.co.uk/cardi%5Fgrain/ http://dev.netring.co.uk/lloydmotors/ Regards, Phil Baines www.wubbleyew.com/blog Netring media and technology website: www.netring.co.uk The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/2004
Re: [WSG] Site Checking
On 2 Dec 2004, at 9:19 PM, Phil Baines wrote: web standards complaint sites Cool. Is this for complaining about sites that aren't compliant? N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Checking
web standards complaint sites Cool. Is this for complaining about sites that aren't compliant? N HAha! Good catch Obviously it should have been web standards compliant sites. Thanks for helping me laugh at myself :) Phil -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/2004 The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Checking
Couple of suggestions: * Place link to Home at left, not right, of menu bar * Replace ALT text in menu bar with text of link rather than accesskey ref * I like your field hilighting on forms but the Send button should be vsually different from the fields * Always mark mandatory fields and advised users at tip of form how the mandatory fields are identified Cheers Graham Cook Standards Manager - Content Integrity Data Online Telstra Technology -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Phil Baines Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 9:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Site Checking web standards complaint sites Cool. Is this for complaining about sites that aren't compliant? N HAha! Good catch Obviously it should have been web standards compliant sites. Thanks for helping me laugh at myself :) Phil -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/2004 The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Checking
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 10:19:19 -, Phil Baines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Folks, This is my first message to the list, but I have been watching for a little while. Weldon to the Administrators for maintaining a good list, and to the posters for keeping the list so busy! snip / The first things that caught my attention are the file sizes of the images. Not everybody's on broadband yet... Clean code, except for two silly things I checked in Teifi's site: a name=content class=skipTonbsp;/a The attribute name should be replaced by id, and the link may have some content to keep in logical for screen readers and css-less people. And by using an id, you can also kill the class. And what's up with the span/spans in your code? Lloyd Motors look nice, but again some code silliness. I don't know if you want to put anything in #footer, but it seems it's only there for clearing purposes. (Tip: http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html) Overall I like it. -- Cheers, Rob. » http://zooibaai.nl ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
Nick Lo wrote: During development when referring to HTML (and perhaps CSS) with a client do you use the term code or the more pedantically correct, though perhaps less recognised, term markup ? My own preference is: XHTML -- mark-up CSS -- styling JavaScript, PHP, etc... -- code ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
What's in a name? Read this and find out: http://computerworld.com/departments/opinions/sharktank/0,4885,97840,00.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Checking
@ Rob: The first things that caught my attention are the file sizes of the images. Not everybody's on broadband yet... Some of the Cardi Grain ones yeah, but I dont think that the other two sites have any really big images. Some of them will probably go under some high optimisation before going live. Thanks. Clean code, except for two silly things I checked in Teifi's site: a name=content class=skipTonbsp;/a The attribute name should be replaced by id, and the link may have some content to keep in logical for screen readers and css-less people. And by using an id, you can also kill the class. This is meant to be an Anchor for the 'Skip to content' links earlier on in the code. As far as my knowledge leads me to believe, and ID attribute will not work in place of the NAME attribute for an Anchor (or at least it wont for older browsers). Also, according to this - http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/tagpages/a/a-bookmark.htm - Either the HREF or NAME MUST be present in an Anchor tag. And what's up with the span/spans in your code? Ahh, I take it that you are referring to the Teifi site. They are for clearing. If I can get the 'Easy Clearing' to work, then I will replace them. Lloyd Motors look nice, but again some code silliness. I don't know if you want to put anything in #footer, but it seems it's only there for clearing purposes. (Tip: http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html) Thanks for the compliment. Your right, #footer is empty at the moment, but there is a good chance that there will be some content in it later on. Also, it needs a background image, which is something I wont be able to apply using the 'Easy Clearing# method. Overall I like it. Thank you very much. Regards, Phil Baines -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/2004 The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Checking
@ Graham Cook: * Place link to Home at left, not right, of menu bar Good usability point. Thanks. I take it you were referring to the Scaffolding site, I have changed this, and I am making the logo a link to the home page also (something I normally always do, but forgot in this case). * Replace ALT text in menu bar with text of link rather than accesskey ref This is not actually ALT text, but a TITLE attribute on each link. I was under the impression that it is good Accessibility to state the access key reference in a TITLE for Anchors so that Screen Readers can read it. Putting the text of the link into the TITLE would be pointless because the screen reader would be repeating itself. Thanks anyway though. * I like your field hilighting on forms but the Send button should be vsually different from the fields This is a very good usability point. I will look into it. * Always mark mandatory fields and advised users at tip of form how the mandatory fields are identified This is also a good point, and something I am going to be updating soon. Thanks. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/2004 The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Checking
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 12:13:16 -, Phil Baines [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clean code, except for two silly things I checked in Teifi's site: a name=content class=skipTonbsp;/a The attribute name should be replaced by id, and the link may have some content to keep in logical for screen readers and css-less people. And by using an id, you can also kill the class. This is meant to be an Anchor for the 'Skip to content' links earlier on in the code. As far as my knowledge leads me to believe, and ID attribute will not work in place of the NAME attribute for an Anchor (or at least it wont for older browsers). Also, according to this - http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/tagpages/a/a-bookmark.htm - Either the HREF or NAME MUST be present in an Anchor tag. According to this HTML 4.0 spec (http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/struct/links.html), ID is allowed on anchors as well for the same purpose. Also, the DTD tells me ID has replaced the HTML NAME in XHTML (http://66.102.9.104/custom?q=cache:v8_T7ASDsDQJ:www.w3.org/People/mimasa/test/schemas/xhtml-basic10-f2.xsd.txt+name+id+anchor+xhtml+1hl=enie=UTF-8). Hey, I'm just a n00b. -- Cheers, Rob. » http://zooibaai.nl ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Checking
@Rob Hey, I'm just a n00b. Hey, we are all n00bs in some way, learning something new every day. I will look into this, and see what comes out of it. You might be right about the spec, but sometimes we have to trade off between the spec, and what browsers actually support. Thanks for your help. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/2004 The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] colgroup alignment issue
Mike,
Comes a bit late as I'm sure you've move on, but I think you would
still find this interesting.
http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1070385285count=1
Cheers,
Chris.
On 12/11/2004, at 3:15 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We have encountered alignment issues between our target browsers.
The code example below only works within IE, all other browsers
default to standard left alignment.
#datatable col.dt_currency { /* Use for columns containing currency
values only. */
text-align: right;
}
snip /
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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RE: [WSG] Code or Markup
Going to Merriam-Webster: Code, n. 1 : a systematic statement of a body of law; especially : one given statutory force 2 : a system of principles or rules moral code ... 5 : a set of instructions for a computer Markup, n. 1 : an amount added to the cost price to determine the selling price; broadly : PROFIT 2 : a U.S. Congressional committee session at which a bill is put into final form before it is reported out. Mark up, v. 1 : to put a markup on Markup language, n. 1 : a system (as HTML or SGML) for marking or tagging a document that indicates its logical structure (as paragraphs) and gives instructions for its layout on the page for electronic transmission and display. I think that we computer professionals do terrible things to language. We make nouns into verbs (do maintenance instead of maintain) and vice-cera. Historically, marking up is an action but the tokens used are now called markup. SGML, XHTML, etc. are languages with defined grammars, just like Cobol. Instead of using a Common Business Oriented Language, we use a markup languages. We don't say that Cobol code is business, it's code used for business purposes. So I would say that XHTML is the code we use to markup. XHTML even follows the paradigm that there is a source document that is consumed by a process to create a target document. That and with the definitions above, this would indicate that XHTML is code. After reading this, I must ask myself, what the hell does this have to do with Web Standards? Have we broken the code of the list? ;-) Mark back to work W. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
Well, speaking again as a print designer, markup is a typesetting industry term meaning applying styles (yes style tags) to text (and has been for a very long time). Used to be, you'd mark up text to send to the typographer. They'd apply that markup to text in whatever technology was employed at the time (hot metal to phototype). With desktop publishing wiping out that industry, anyone who styles text (read content) is marking it up--whether in Word or BBedit, WordPress or Dreamweaver. I'd say that CSS is a markup language developed to separate markup from coding, Which is why CSS works together with XSLT to style XML. I don't know the history. Was CSS developed first for XSLT/XML and then applied to HTML? Or vice versa? Best regards, Marilyn Langfeld http://www.langfeldesigns.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.301.598.3300 business phone +1.301.598.0532 fax +1.202.390.8847 mobile On Dec 2, 2004, at 8:08 AM, Mark Wonsil wrote: Going to Merriam-Webster: Code, n. 1 : a systematic statement of a body of law; especially : one given statutory force 2 : a system of principles or rules moral code> ... 5 : a set of instructions for a computer Markup, n. 1 : an amount added to the cost price to determine the selling price; broadly : PROFIT 2 : a U.S. Congressional committee session at which a bill is put into final form before it is reported out. Mark up, v. 1 : to put a markup on Markup language, n. 1 : a system (as HTML or SGML) for marking or tagging a document that indicates its logical structure (as paragraphs) and gives instructions for its layout on the page for electronic transmission and display. I think that we computer professionals do terrible things to language. We make nouns into verbs (do maintenance instead of maintain) and vice-cera. Historically, marking up is an action but the tokens used are now called markup. SGML, XHTML, etc. are languages with defined grammars, just like Cobol. Instead of using a Common Business Oriented Language, we use a markup languages. We don't say that Cobol code is business, it's code used for business purposes. So I would say that XHTML is the code we use to markup. XHTML even follows the paradigm that there is a source document that is consumed by a process to create a target document. That and with the definitions above, this would indicate that XHTML is code. After reading this, I must ask myself, what the hell does this have to do with Web Standards? Have we broken the code of the list? ;-) Mark back to work W. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Checking
Phil Baines : http://dev.netring.co.uk/teifiscaffolding/ http://dev.netring.co.uk/cardi%5Fgrain/ http://dev.netring.co.uk/lloydmotors/ _ Hi Phil Nice layouts. I'm seeing problems in two of the sites in Opera 7.4. In the Teifi Scaffolding I see the word Navigation in caps sitting behind the logo at top left. Also the words Valley Scaffolding Slogan Goes Here sitting across the top of the image of the men on the scaffolding. Also the mouse over colour doesn't work in Opera - I can see it in IE6. In the Cardi Grain site, although the top navigation links are spread across the page, I cannot mouse over them, but underneath the Home link, the Products, Links, Contact Us and Tell a Friend links appear again in a vertical list and they are clickable. Also, the strap line 'Buy into a fragrant...' shows twice in the header, the second and lower one sitting right across the logo. Hope this helps Rowena ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessibility Checklist in Simple English
I don't know if this is plain english. The W3C has a check list for WCAG. http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/full-checklist.html They also publish a set of quicktips. These are very plain english. They can come on a card. They can be ordered for free from the W3C. http://www.w3.org/WAI/References/QuickTips/ The W3C Web Accessibility Initiative also has a curriculum that they have on their web site. http://www.w3.org/WAI/wcag-curric/oversam.htm Sincerely, Justin Thorp Web Developer and Accessibility Specialist Academic Computing Network Services Michigan State University Herrod, Lisa wrote: Hi list I need to do some brief training at short notice on the WCAG priority 1 checkpoints and was just wondering if anyone had seen it in simple english. ie. for people who really don't have any coding experience? thanks in advance Lisa Regards Lisa Herrod Usability Analyst 02 9467 5047 --- ...OLE_Obj... Sydney Melbourne 112 Alexander Street28 Drummond Street Crows Nest NSW 2065 Carlton South VIC 3053 P: 02 9467 5000 P: 03 9669 1700 F: 02 9467 5020 F: 03 9669 1799 www.testingcentre.com This e-mail is confidential, intended solely for the addressees, and may be legally privileged. If you're not the intended recipient, any access, copying, distribution, or action taken or omitted relying on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Images in Nav, Splash Screens.
No, I was afraid of what could I find inside. Been hard enough to convince my customer I was not going to take it as an example. Since then I've learned not to ask prospective clients what kind of website they would like to have... Bennie Shepherd wrote: Did ya sign up so you could enter? :o) P.S. they're denim fabric wholesalers, I think. Dejan Kozina Web Design Studio Dolina 346 (TS) I-34018 Trst/Trieste - Italy tel./fax: +39 040 228 436 cell.: +39 348 7355 225 http://www.kozina.com/ e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] begin:vcard fn:Dejan Kozina n:Kozina;Dejan org:Dejan Kozina Web Design Studio adr:;;Dolina 346;Dolina;TS;I-34018;Italy email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;work:+39 348 7355 225 tel;fax:+39 040 228 436 tel;home:+39 040 228 436 tel;cell:+39 348 7355 225 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://www.kozina.com/ version:2.1 end:vcard
RE: [WSG] Code or Markup
Marilyn asks: Was CSS developed first for XSLT/XML and then applied to HTML? Or vice versa? SGML existed first and DSSSL was used to style, but for a nice history see: http://www.webreference.com/authoring/style/sheets/cssseparate/chap1/1/index .html Mark W. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Site Checking
When checking the sites in opera, I noticed that the Lloyd Motors one isn't displaying properally in Opera. The background image for the body doesnt display on the bottom as required. This is the CSS I have: background:#F2F5F9 url(images/bodyBg.png) repeat-x bottom; Any ideas how to fix this in Opera folks? Scrap that folks; I fixed it by applying the styles to the HTML tag instead of the body tag. Thanks anyway! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.289 / Virus Database: 265.4.4 - Release Date: 30/11/2004 The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and/or publication of this E-mail message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail message in error, please notify us immediately. Please also destroy and delete the message from your computer. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Apologies
I gather my having read receipts on has caused loads of messages to hit the list my apologies. Thats a lesson learnt. Rowena
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
Thanks, Mark. That helps me understand my own confusion. The term markup has a profusion of uses! So all of the 'mls (html, xhtml, xml, sgml) are considered markup languages, but the markup is of content, not presentation and CSS is the presentation style language (which designers of yore called markup, just to confuse things a bit). And markup has other meanings, depending on context. Whew! Best regards, Marilyn Langfeld http://www.langfeldesigns.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 2, 2004, at 9:52 AM, Mark Wonsil wrote: Marilyn asks: Was CSS developed first for XSLT/XML and then applied to HTML? Or vice versa? SGML existed first and DSSSL was used to style, but for a nice history see: http://www.webreference.com/authoring/style/sheets/cssseparate/chap1/1/index .html Mark W.
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
Was CSS developed first for XSLT/XML and then applied to HTML? Or vice versa? CSS was developed for HTML. Hakon Lie, co-autor of CSS, doesn't like XSL-FO. http://people.opera.com/howcome/1999/foch.html SGML existed first and DSSSL was used to style Wow, compared to DSSSL CSS is s easy and clean. Back to code vs markup: For me code is reserved for languages that aspire to be turing-complete. These at least should have data storage (variables) and flow control instructions (if, loops or goto). Everything else, including XML and CSS, is data for me. -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 15:40:08 -, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back to code vs markup: For me code is reserved for languages that aspire to be turing-complete. These at least should have data storage (variables) and flow control instructions (if, loops or goto). Everything else, including XML and CSS, is data for me. Oh. I agree with previously mentioned statement: markup is subset of code. Not every code is programming language (this I'd reserve for turing complete). And if XML is data,what is inside XML tags? Anyway, this is waaay off-toppic. Regards, Rimantas ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Mozilla / Safari Workaround
Managed to get other php pages working properly, but having (different) issues on both Moz Safari for the following page: http://www.funkdub.info/index.php - the background is staying punched up. Cant see where the code or css is going wrong. ...would be interested to see if anyone could suggest a fix, as this is letting the rest of the site down :( Cheers Ya'll ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Siter Review Please
Title: RE: [WSG] Siter Review Please OUCH! Mr. Meyer has a If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all rule on his list. Is that in effect here as well?? Perhaps a recommendation to http://webdesign-L.com would have been nicer... At 4:42 PM +1100 12/2/04, Cook, Graham R wrote: In one word - crap! basic problems include: ... And that's just a start from a cursory look From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 1:47 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Siter Review Please I just want to get some feedback about aesthetics and design on my site if possible please and also the funcionality. Yes it is designed in tables but still I would like some criticism please. J.LinasDesign Graphic Designer http://www.jlinasdesign.com/ -- - Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist mlinc.com
RE: [WSG] Mozilla / Safari Workaround
Not going to fix all issues (like the two columns being slightly too wide to
fit),
but just concentrating on the background:
- as all your elements are outside of the normal document flow, your container
only has normal content up until it hits #main. to redress this, add
#footer { clear: both; } at the end of funkdub2.css (or add the clear rule in
your
current #footer definition)
- now, you'll notice how the dropshadow image goes right down to the bottom,
and the footer is in the right place. however, the black background is not
shining
through, as it's obscured by the actual dropshadow gif. simple fix: edit
dropthis.gif
and make the central bit (currently white) transparent. this way, the black of
the
container's background colour can show through
Hope this makes some kind of sense,
Patrick
Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
-Original Message-
From: Sam Hutchinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 02 December 2004 15:57
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Mozilla / Safari Workaround
Managed to get other php pages working properly, but having
(different)
issues on both Moz Safari for the following page:
http://www.funkdub.info/index.php - the background is staying
punched up.
Cant see where the code or css is going wrong.
...would be interested to see if anyone could suggest a fix,
as this is
letting the rest of the site down :(
Cheers Ya'll
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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[WSG] Is it Standard ?
Hi, I would like to know if I can insert image into list ? I have used this method by the past but in an article I read that it was not standard? w3 say nothing about that ? And you what do you think? Thanks in advance Berry ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Is it Standard ?
From: berry I would like to know if I can insert image into list ? I have used this method by the past but in an article I read that it was not standard? w3 say nothing about that ? The best way to find out if it's standard as per W3C is to run it through the validator http://validator.w3.org/ And in answer to your query: I don't see why it wouldn't be standard, provided you're coding it properly. Heck, you can stick paragraphs and such in list items, so why not images? ul liimg src=... alt=good alternate text goes here //li /ul Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] When Is It CDATA?
Hi, In the following why is it appropriate to classify the import rule as CDATA? style type=text/css media=screen /* ![CDATA[ */ @import url(c/core.css); /* ]] */ /style ___ Knowing is not enough, you must apply; willing is not enough, you must do. ---Bruce Lee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] When Is It CDATA?
Chris Kennon wrote: In the following why is it appropriate to classify the import rule as CDATA? style type=text/css media=screen /* ![CDATA[ */ @import url(c/core.css); /* ]] */ /style You use CDATA to tell an XML aware parser to ignore something (where ignore can either be interpreted by the parser as don't process, but leave it in or completely remove, depending on implementation). This is usually recommended for javascript and CSS when you're moving to XHTML (in the simplest case, ampersands and symbols in the javascript or CSS can cause validation errors, in the worst case - when serving as application/xhtml+xml or similar, they could make the whole document malformed and thus not display at all). Having said that, as you're only using an import rule, you could get rid of the whole CDATA shebang - provided that you don't add any other CSS later that may contain those characters). To be completely on the safe side, create a new CSS file which only contains the @import rule, and then link that in your document, circumventing the potential problem completely. -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is it Standard ?
I have tried it, and it isn't standard. Try p-ing it instead. berry wrote: Hi, I would like to know if I can insert image into list ? I have used this method by the past but in an article I read that it was not standard? w3 say nothing about that ? And you what do you think? Thanks in advance Berry ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessibility Checklist in Simple English
Hi, The New Zealand Government has a checklist for its web guidelines (which include accessibility). Not all of the checkpoints will be relevant to non-government sites, but they may be a useful starting point, and are in reasonably plain english. The latest version is being reviewed at the moment, but version 1 is still available. http://www.e.govt.nz/web-guidelines/compliance-checklist.asp http://www.e.govt.nz/docs/web-guidelines-2-1/index.html On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 08:51:16 -0500, Justin Thorp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is plain english. The W3C has a check list for WCAG. http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/full-checklist.html They also publish a set of quicktips. These are very plain english. They can come on a card. They can be ordered for free from the W3C. http://www.w3.org/WAI/References/QuickTips/ The W3C Web Accessibility Initiative also has a curriculum that they have on their web site. http://www.w3.org/WAI/wcag-curric/oversam.htm Sincerely, Justin Thorp Web Developer and Accessibility Specialist Academic Computing Network Services Michigan State University Herrod, Lisa wrote: Hi list I need to do some brief training at short notice on the WCAG priority 1 checkpoints and was just wondering if anyone had seen it in simple english. ie. for people who really don't have any coding experience? thanks in advance Lisa Regards Lisa Herrod Usability Analyst 02 9467 5047 --- ...OLE_Obj... Sydney Melbourne 112 Alexander Street 28 Drummond Street Crows Nest NSW 2065Carlton South VIC 3053 P: 02 9467 5000 P: 03 9669 1700 F: 02 9467 5020 F: 03 9669 1799 www.testingcentre.com This e-mail is confidential, intended solely for the addressees, and may be legally privileged. If you're not the intended recipient, any access, copying, distribution, or action taken or omitted relying on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants -- Sir Isaac Newton http://josephlindsay.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is it Standard ?
Indranil Dasgupta wrote: I have tried it, and it isn't standard. Try p-ing it instead. Sorry, but...how did you try it? How did you arrive at the conclusion that it isn't standard? It's perfectly valid (even up to XHTML 1.1)! ul liimg src=... alt=a good alt text //li /ul -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
Rimantas Liubertas wrote: And if XML is data,what is inside XML tags? Anyway, this is waaay off-toppic. A discription of the data. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is it Standard ?
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: It's perfectly valid (even up to XHTML 1.1)! If you use of object instead of img, it's valid even in XHTML2. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Mozilla / Safari Workaround
I'm about to leave, but can check it for you in about 6 hours or so. What's the address? I'm not sure any more.
Best regards,
Marilyn Langfeld
http://www.langfeldesigns.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1.301.598.3300 business phone
+1.301.598.0532 fax
+1.202.390.8847 mobile
On Dec 2, 2004, at 2:00 PM, Sam Hutchinson wrote:
That is some very kind advice Patrick, thanks.
I have implemented the fixes to the main index.php file, and have dropped
the newsfeeds for now as they were causing some serious validation issues.
The main index.php file now validates fully as valid xhtml and css and works
in Moz / Firebird as intended. Just have to give the homepage some proper
content and work on validating the rest of the site now :)
Anyone running latest Safari on mac that can check the page for me please?
Thanks again.
I love this list :)
Sam
-
http://www.funkdub.info/
http://www.sammyco.co.uk/
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Patrick Lauke
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 04:16
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Mozilla / Safari Workaround
Not going to fix all issues (like the two columns being slightly too wide to
fit),
but just concentrating on the background:
- as all your elements are outside of the normal document flow, your
container
only has normal content up until it hits #main. to redress this, add
#footer { clear: both; } at the end of funkdub2.css (or add the clear rule
in your
current #footer definition)
- now, you'll notice how the dropshadow image goes right down to the bottom,
and the footer is in the right place. however, the black background is not
shining
through, as it's obscured by the actual dropshadow gif. simple fix: edit
dropthis.gif
and make the central bit (currently white) transparent. this way, the black
of the
container's background colour can show through
Hope this makes some kind of sense,
Patrick
Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
-Original Message-
From: Sam Hutchinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 02 December 2004 15:57
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] Mozilla / Safari Workaround
Managed to get other php pages working properly, but having
(different)
issues on both Moz Safari for the following page:
http://www.funkdub.info/index.php - the background is staying
punched up.
Cant see where the code or css is going wrong.
...would be interested to see if anyone could suggest a fix,
as this is
letting the rest of the site down :(
Cheers Ya'll
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
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The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
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Re: [WSG] Mozilla / Safari Workaround
Marilyn Langfeld wrote: I'm about to leave, but can check it for you in about 6 hours or so. What's the address? I'm not sure any more. http://www.funkdub.info/ -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] When Is It CDATA?
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 17:58:57 +, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris Kennon wrote: In the following why is it appropriate to classify the import rule as CDATA? style type=text/css media=screen /* ![CDATA[ */ @import url(c/core.css); /* ]] */ /style You use CDATA to tell an XML aware parser to ignore something (where ignore can either be interpreted by the parser as don't process, but leave it in or completely remove, depending on implementation). this isn't strictly true really. CDATA in XML is actually slightly more complex than that. In the example sometagThis is text or something/sometag This is text of something is actually PCDATA (Parsed CDATA). The CDATA tag as above tells the parser not to parse the contained CDATA, so that the parser dosn't choke on any of the tags (or what might appear to be the start / end of tags) inside the selection. Of course how browsers handle that is a whole nother can of worms. Excellent point on that if it is only that @import statment, the CDATA declaration is pretty much unessasary. ~j -- Jonathan T. Sage Theatrical Lighting / Set Designer Professional Web Design [HTTP://www.JTSage.com] [HTTP://design.JTSage.com] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] What's right
Hello -
As I playing with my blog the other day, I came accross this type of
thing. I'm curious which of these two examples is more correct. In
both cases, the intent is to replace a text header link with a
clickable background image. (stripped down a bit too)
HTML:
div id=headera href=link.htmlspanLink Text/span/a/div
CSS:
#header { postion etc, background-image: }
a#header { same size as header }
#header span { visibility: hidden; }
*or*
HTML:
div id=headera href=link.htmldivLink Text/div/a/div
CSS:
#header { postion etc, background-image: }
a#header { same size as header }
#header div { visibility: hidden; }
Just curious what thoughts on this might be. Thanks.
~j
--
Jonathan T. Sage
Theatrical Lighting / Set Designer
Professional Web Design
[HTTP://www.JTSage.com]
[HTTP://design.JTSage.com]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] What's right
A div is a block element, a span is an inline element as is an anchor.
An anchor cannot contain a block element, so nesting a div inside an a
will cause a validation error.
In this case a ref=link.htmlspanlink/span/a is correct.
cheers Terrence Wood.
On 2004-12-03 9:11 AM, Jonathan T. Sage wrote:
Hello -
As I playing with my blog the other day, I came accross this type of
thing. I'm curious which of these two examples is more correct. In
both cases, the intent is to replace a text header link with a
clickable background image. (stripped down a bit too)
HTML:
div id=headera href=link.htmlspanLink Text/span/a/div
CSS:
#header { postion etc, background-image: }
a#header { same size as header }
#header span { visibility: hidden; }
*or*
HTML:
div id=headera href=link.htmldivLink Text/div/a/div
CSS:
#header { postion etc, background-image: }
a#header { same size as header }
#header div { visibility: hidden; }
Just curious what thoughts on this might be. Thanks.
~j
--
You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have
nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Re: [WSG] When Is It CDATA?
Jonathan T. Sage wrote: You use CDATA to tell an XML aware parser to ignore something (where ignore can either be interpreted by the parser as don't process, but leave it in or completely remove, depending on implementation). this isn't strictly true really. CDATA in XML is actually slightly more complex than that. Drat...sorry, got myself tangled up and confused. Was thinking of comments !-- -- within CDATA, which can be completely dropped by the user agent depending on implementation. At least I think that's what I was thinking... And for those interested, but too lazy to look for it, the actual W3C definiton http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#sec-cdata-sect CDATA sections MAY occur anywhere character data may occur; they are used to escape blocks of text containing characters which would otherwise be recognized as markup. CDATA sections begin with the string ![CDATA[ and end with the string ]] -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] What's right
Jonathan T. Sage wrote:
HTML:
div id=headera href=link.htmlspanLink Text/span/a/div
CSS:
#header { postion etc, background-image: }
a#header { same size as header }
#header span { visibility: hidden; }
that second line should be #header a { ... }
div id=headera href=link.htmldivLink Text/div/a/div
Invalid, as DIV is a block level element and can't be contained inside an
inline element like A.
So the first one, using the SPAN, is the right one of the two. Suggest
also ensuring that you have something like
#header a { display:block; etc etc }
as an inline element can't be assigned dimensions properly, otherwise.
--
Patrick H. Lauke
_
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
[latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
http://redux.deviantart.com
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Re: [WSG] What's right
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:28:31 +, Patrick H. Lauke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jonathan T. Sage wrote:
HTML:
div id=headera href=link.htmlspanLink Text/span/a/div
CSS:
#header { postion etc, background-image: }
a#header { same size as header }
#header span { visibility: hidden; }
that second line should be #header a { ... }
hmm. ok, of course you are right. My next question is, what writing
a declaration like a#id, what is happening? Certinally don't wanna
throw out a it works so it must be right, since it is obviously not
correct - but the question begs to be answered, why does it work? is
that in some way implying display:block? or is it turning the entire
div into an anchor? Very odd.
working (FF / IE6 anyway) example at http://jtsage.com/apathy - I'll
leave it for a few hours before I change it. (also should be noted
that it validates as is).
thanks much for the responses. This list has a wonderful quality of
making me question what I think I know... somewhere along the way I
think I may be picking up some real useful knowledge
~j
--
Jonathan T. Sage
Theatrical Lighting / Set Designer
Professional Web Design
[HTTP://www.JTSage.com]
[HTTP://design.JTSage.com]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WSG] What's right
I presume that writing
#header a { same size as header }
is better
a#header { same size as header }
a#header probably will not work because a tag is after div #header tag.
it is the same for the span tag
#header a span { visibility: hidden; } than #header span { visibility:
hidden; }
Berry
Hello -
As I playing with my blog the other day, I came accross this type of
thing. I'm curious which of these two examples is more correct. In
both cases, the intent is to replace a text header link with a
clickable background image. (stripped down a bit too)
HTML:
div id=headera href=link.htmlspanLink Text/span/a/div
CSS:
#header { postion etc, background-image: }
a#header { same size as header }
#header span { visibility: hidden; }
*or*
HTML:
div id=headera href=link.htmldivLink Text/div/a/div
CSS:
#header { postion etc, background-image: }
a#header { same size as header }
#header div { visibility: hidden; }
Just curious what thoughts on this might be. Thanks.
~j
--
Jonathan T. Sage
Theatrical Lighting / Set Designer
Professional Web Design
[HTTP://www.JTSage.com]
[HTTP://design.JTSage.com]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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[WSG] i want to unsubcribe plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
From: "Jonathan T. Sage" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] What's "right" Date:
Thu, 2 Dec 2004 15:11:08 -0500 Hello - As I playing with my blog the other day, I came accross this type of thing. I'm curious which of these two examples is more correct. In both cases, the intent is to replace a text header link with a clickable background image. (stripped down a bit too) HTML: div id="header"a href=""spanLink Text/span/a/div CSS: #header { postion etc, background-image: } a#header { same size as header } #header span { visibility: hidden; } *or* HTML: div id="header"a href=""divLink Text/div/a/div CSS: #header { postion etc, background-image: } a#header { same size as header } #header div { visibility: hidden; } Just curious what
thoughts on this might be. Thanks. ~j -- Jonathan T. Sage Theatrical Lighting / Set Designer Professional Web Design [HTTP://www.JTSage.com] [HTTP://design.JTSage.com] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger Download today it's FREE!
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Re: [WSG] What's right
Jonathan T. Sage wrote: hmm. ok, of course you are right. My next question is, what writing a declaration like a#id, what is happening? it will only work of there is an A element with that particular id, otherwise it will be ignored. Certinally don't wanna throw out a it works so it must be right, since it is obviously not correct - but the question begs to be answered, why does it work? is that in some way implying display:block? or is it turning the entire div into an anchor? ah, but in your live page http://www.jtsage.com/apathy/ you have assigned a separate id of headie (please note spelling) to your link div id=headera id=headie ... and that's why a#headie (and not header like you mentioned in your original email) does work. To sum it up: you can remove the id on the a, and change a#headie to #header a -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] i want to unsubcribe plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Sorry, but...idiot! -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] What's right
hmm. ok, of course you are right. My next question is, what writing
a declaration like a#id, what is happening? Certinally don't wanna
throw out a it works so it must be right, since it is obviously not
correct - but the question begs to be answered, why does it work? is
that in some way implying display:block?
Not at all. This is just a selector. It selects element a which has id
equal to id. Only that.
Read about selectors:
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html#id-selectors
Various selectors may be joined together to select more specific element
in document.
#id and a#id basically are the same, because only one element can have
certain id, BUT each selector has its 'specificity' value which affects
cascade: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/cascade.html
a#id {color: green;}
#id {color: red;}
a id=id will be green. Not many webmasters actually know why Cascading
Style Sheets are cascading :)
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
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Re: [WSG] What's right
of course. my mistake completely. remember doing that now of course.
thanks again
~j
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 21:24:17 -, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
hmm. ok, of course you are right. My next question is, what writing
a declaration like a#id, what is happening? Certinally don't wanna
throw out a it works so it must be right, since it is obviously not
correct - but the question begs to be answered, why does it work? is
that in some way implying display:block?
Not at all. This is just a selector. It selects element a which has id
equal to id. Only that.
Read about selectors:
http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html#id-selectors
Various selectors may be joined together to select more specific element
in document.
#id and a#id basically are the same, because only one element can have
certain id, BUT each selector has its 'specificity' value which affects
cascade: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/cascade.html
a#id {color: green;}
#id {color: red;}
a id=id will be green. Not many webmasters actually know why Cascading
Style Sheets are cascading :)
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
--
Jonathan T. Sage
Theatrical Lighting / Set Designer
Professional Web Design
[HTTP://www.JTSage.com]
[HTTP://design.JTSage.com]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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**
[WSG] designing for the cell phone and PDA
Is there anyone out there that has had some success building a style sheet to make their web site look good on a pocket pc or cell phone? I'd like to add this feature to our site but I haven't had much luck. Are there any successes or failures out there? Thanks Ted Drake Web Content Editor CSA Travel Protection http://www.csatravelprotection.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Site Checking
Return Receipt Your [WSG] Site Checking document : was Mike Lindsay/NSO/CSDA received by: at: 2004-12-03 09:24:57 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
Rimantas Liubertas wrote: price currency=EUR20/price So price and /price constitute data. 20 - somehow describes the very same data that is: price ... and /price. While, yes, 20 can be said to describe price, it is more accurate to say that price and EUR describes 20. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] [ADMIN] Listdad rave (please don't reply on list)
Hey list, A number of things to cover. Please read on. New Zealand: I am stunned by the RSVPs for the upcoming meeting in Wellington. By my reckoning, over 50 people will attend next Thursday evening and it's their first meeting. You Kiwis! Always a surprise up your sleeves. Mike Brown and Terry Wood have certainly earned their places in the WSG core team. If only my passport was current... That's going to be some party! Next year is going to be very interesting for meeting groups. We will be starting Perth and Canberra in the new year and there have been quite a few other cities suggested in the survey (see below). __ Texas: If you're in the Dallas or Fort Worth region, you should have received an off-list email about a potential meeting. I have only had two responses so far so please let me know if you're interested or if you're not interested so I know not to ask again ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Traffic: With over 100 posts a day lately, it's time again to ask that we cut down on frivolous posts. One of the most frequent complaints we get is about the signal-to-noise ratio on the list. Please stay on topic, no matter how clever your reply is. Send it back to the sender for a laugh, not the list please. We're not trying to stifle on-topic posts in any way. Signal is good, noise is bad. (Community is good too... Laughter is the best medicine (*(c) Readers Digest?)... Torn now... Noise is bad, let's leave it there.) If you have a question, please ask it, that's what the list is for. If you're just thanking someone for their input, do it directly. We can all assume you are being courteous and don't need to see it on the list. Also: * Turn off read receipt requests when posting to WSG. This is a daily problem for me as I get most of the receipts (to the list's reply address). * If you're going away over the holiday season and will be setting a vacation message, please unsubscribe before you do or send me an email ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) asking to be temporarily suspended and then remind me when you return to reinstate your subscription. We will terminate the membership of any member that has Out-of-office or vacation messages without notice from now on. * Please try to remember to set your message to plain text. HTML email causes sooo many issues on a list. We are still waiting for SmarterTools to give us the option of forcing only the plain text component of posts to the mailing list. This may be a while yet. __ Subject lines: Far too many Site check please (or similar) subject lines lately. People are happy to check your site and report back (hopefully directly to you and not the list unless there is a real lesson for everyone to learn and certainly NOT Looks fine to me replies) but it would help if you point out in the subject exactly what you need help with. So, Site check - webboy.net - Nav may be an issue is far better than just Site check (and no, I don't want an appraisal of my website, we know it needs work but it's way down the list :) ___ Validation: Please remember to validate your mark-up/css and repair any errors before asking for help (unless you need help with the validator results) and please supply a link to the site/page AND the css file (if the css isn't contained in the head of the same page). This is a very important step. A lot of the problem you are wanting solved may well be caused by invalid mark-up. It also shows others that you are making a concerted effort and are not asking people to do your coding for you. ___ Survey: If you haven't already responded, can I remind you about the WSG Member Survey. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=44544720503 (yes we know but the reporting this system does is excellent) The results of this survey will help shape the future of the group and the suggestions we are getting are fantastic. We have had responses from about 10% of the membership (by numbers) and the bigger the sample and range of ideas, the better the result. If there's something you don't (or do) like, please use this opportunity to let us know. We will be making significant changes to the website and membership process over the holiday season, and many of the changes will come from the suggestions in the survey. If you don't speak up now, your suggestions will not be part of the process. ___ Spirit: Play nice on the list please. Telling someone their site is crap is not nice (even if it is crap) and we will not be tolerating on-list rudeness any more. It's far easier to dump an ill-mannered poster than to put up with it and the successive posts (on- and off-list). As suggested, If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing. The only type of criticism on the list should be constructive criticism. That is all... P ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See
Re: [WSG] i want to unsubcribe plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Yeah - we get the point guys - THREAD CLOSED On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 15:49:29 -0800, Francesco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 21:10:35 +, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Sorry, but...idiot! My sentiments exactly. What is up with people who write pl instead of please? Aaarrgh. Francesco Sanfilippo, Developer / Designer --- Blackcoil Productions - http://blackcoil.com URL123 Link Service - http://url123.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Mark Stanton Gruden Pty Ltd http://www.gruden.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is it Standard ?
Well, I used it in my site, and it gave errors. Maybe I'm wrong! Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Indranil Dasgupta wrote: I have tried it, and it isn't standard. Try p-ing it instead. Sorry, but...how did you try it? How did you arrive at the conclusion that it isn't standard? It's perfectly valid (even up to XHTML 1.1)! ul liimg src=... alt=a good alt text //li /ul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] please take me off the list for right now thanks
J.LinasDesignGraphic Designerhttp://www.jlinasdesign.com/
Re: [WSG] Code or Markup
Title: Re: [WSG] Code or Markup In the document editing and proofing field (obviously related to the typesetting industry as its natural precursor in the workflow chain), markup is the word used to describe an editors or a proofreaders copy editing symbols. Corrections are made by hand using a specialised symbol set and then handed off to the relevant person to implement the document is said to be marked up for correction. Getting further off topic here ... Cheers, Kevin On 3/12/04 12:29 AM, Marilyn Langfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, speaking again as a print designer, markup is a typesetting industry term meaning applying styles (yes style tags) to text (and has been for a very long time). Used to be, you'd mark up text to send to the typographer. They'd apply that markup to text in whatever technology was employed at the time (hot metal to phototype). With desktop publishing wiping out that industry, anyone who styles text (read content) is marking it up--whether in Word or BBedit, WordPress or Dreamweaver. I'd say that CSS is a markup language developed to separate markup from coding, Which is why CSS works together with XSLT to style XML. I don't know the history. Was CSS developed first for XSLT/XML and then applied to HTML? Or vice versa? Best regards, Marilyn Langfeld http://www.langfeldesigns.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.301.598.3300 business phone +1.301.598.0532 fax +1.202.390.8847 mobile -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/
[WSG] Southern Hemisphere Users....
Hi You Lot, You are generally a different audience to the UK daytime users, and I always read your posts with interest with my first morning coffee. I'm about to goto bed, but would apppreciate a site feedback / test for http://www.funkdub.info/... I've got the homepage validating to W3C now (and a few of the sub-pages have a fair bit to go), but what I am currently interested in is: - whether anyone experiences issues cross browser - looking for some mac feedback - what people's thoughts are as to the design / presentation - any constructive criticism that can be offered The site itself is a blend of XHTML, CSS, PHP, WordPress PHP BB and its all just about nearly validating. Oh and anyone with an opinion on music is more than weclome to join the community (/banter), there are a few CSS guys knocking about in there :) Right goodnight. Or good morning I suppose. :) Sam - http://www.funkdub.info/ http://www.sammyco.co.uk/
Re: [WSG] designing for the cell phone and PDA
Ted Drake wrote: Is there anyone out there that has had some success building a style sheet to make their web site look good on a pocket pc or cell phone? I'd like to add this feature to our site but I haven't had much luck. A recent article at ALA talked about it. (http://alistapart.com/articles/pocket/) htmldog had a survey of media type support. (http://www.htmldog.com/ptg/archives/55.php) In addition to Opera, Openwave (http://www.openwave.com/) has a simulator which you can download (I've downloaded it, but haven't had a chance to test it yet.) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Using small in a p
I have a line of text placed in a p//p that I would like to shrink. Can I use small//small? if so, how? Angus MacKinnon MacKinnon Crest Saying Latin - Audentes Fortuna Juvat English - Fortune Assists The Daring Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc. http://www.choroideremia.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] designing for the cell phone and PDA
You also have to live in a magic world where they use the correct style sheet, although mobile devices are better on this front than they were. Ted Drake wrote: Is there anyone out there that has had some success building a style sheet to make their web site look good on a pocket pc or cell phone? I'd like to add this feature to our site but I haven't had much luck. Are there any successes or failures out there? Thanks Ted Drake Web Content Editor CSA Travel Protection http://www.csatravelprotection.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using small in a p
I believe small is valid in HTML 4 but cannot find reference in XHTML at all. Which are you using? On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 18:37:22 -0800, The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a line of text placed in a p//p that I would like to shrink. Can I use small//small? if so, how? Angus MacKinnon MacKinnon Crest Saying Latin - Audentes Fortuna Juvat English - Fortune Assists The Daring Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc. http://www.choroideremia.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using small in a p
On 3 Dec 2004, at 1:37 PM, The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store wrote: I have a line of text placed in a p//p that I would like to shrink. Can I use small//small? if so, how? I'd advise wrapping the text you want to shrink in a span, giving that span a class or id, and contolling the font size from your CSS file using the class or id as a hook. HTH N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is it Standard ?
My mistake. :-[ Sorry. Indranil Dasgupta wrote: Well, I used it in my site, and it gave errors. Maybe I'm wrong! Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Indranil Dasgupta wrote: I have tried it, and it isn't standard. Try p-ing it instead. Sorry, but...how did you try it? How did you arrive at the conclusion that it isn't standard? It's perfectly valid (even up to XHTML 1.1)! ul liimg src=... alt=a good alt text //li /ul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Is IE/Mac still messing up my page?
Hi guys, According to my friend, her site is now displaying perfectly in Safari and I can see it looking just fine in a bunch of PC browsers (thanks Georg! :) ). It is, however, apparently still misbehaving in IE/Mac. Can I please get some verification of this, first of all? I know that her system is a little dodgy at the moment, so I'm not altogether trusting of what she sees. If she is in fact correct and IE/Mac is still playing silly buggers, can someone please send me screenshots and (even better) suggestions of how to fix it? I'd really like to knock this over as soon as possible. The site: http://www.onehouseproductions.com/ohp2/ CSS: http://www.onehouseproductions.com/ohp2/_styles/main_styles.css and http://www.onehouseproductions.com/ohp2/_styles/classes.css Cheers, Seona. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Is IE/Mac still messing up my page?
Seona, Looks fine in IE 5.2.3 here. Your fix must have worked. BTW, in both IE and Safari (so I presume in everything) there's a tiny glitch in the curve where the grey and white meet, above and below the home link. All the best. -Hugh Todd PS The links at the bottom of the main column look really tiny in IE, which does not seem to anti-alias the type at this size. It looks as though it's too small for the letterforms to be resolved properly, so although they're legible they look squashed and uncomfortable. :) Thanks for confirming that it's adrift. Now I just need to figure out why. I've tried changing the content div from position:relative to position:absolute (it worked for the side menu, so it seemed a reasonable thing to try). Has that made a difference? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] My site is broken in Opera
Hi Alan, I strongly suggest putting the binary stuff into a background image. Google etc. will hate what you have there as will screen readers. Interesting effect but not a good idea unless maybe you put it at the end of the code order. Personally, I'd lose it and use an image as a css background. Is that why you have the mathml doctype? Can't see that it is mathml at all. It's just 1s 0s and nbsp;s. No formulae or anything mathematical to be seen. It's valid but not necessary and may choke older browsers. Also, semantically very poor. Use HTML elements as they were designed. They are not just for (default) visual behaviour, they are structural. Headings have more weight and are used by machines (search engines, screen readers etc.) for real semantic purpose. A div is not the same as a p even though they are both block level elements. The default settings (for devices that ignore the css) will make is pretty well unusable. As with most things, be careful what you ask for. The reason we do what we do here is to stop the need for code forking (different page/stylesheets for different browsers). It's not a good thing to do as you don't know what will happen. How are you determining the user agent? Opera (by default) ids itself as IE and is indeed getting the IE stylesheet (though you mentioned other browsers so this is probably not the issue). My advice, back to basics. Lose all the internal divs (apart from the containers maybe) and use hn p etc. as they should be used and you won't have to style every little spacer div and have a huge stylesheet that really doesn't need to be there. This should solve the issue. By the way, there is absolutely nothing on that page that would require using separate stylesheets if it were semantically correct code. It's the complexity of your HTML that makes it hard for cross browser compatibility. Saying IE doesn't like web standards is in fact wrong. It does them quite well if you use them the right way. Just a few little things to be aware of, none of which should apply to your page. So: div class=entrytitlespan class=contentheadThe Wise Words of Google - 25 November 2004/span/div (etc... Not putting all that here) Should be just: h2The Wise Words of Google - 25 November 2004/h2 p Here's a list of what google thinks of me: /p p jellybean is herebr / jellybean is a perl object server with an http interfacebr / jellybean is a gdr dogbr / jellybean is an enchantingbr / jellybean is a cat pookabr / jellybean is preposition the doorbr / jellybean is about 12br / jellybean is here to help /p p I got this from a href=http://www.googlism.com/;googlism.com/a. /p Peter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Trick Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 4:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] My site is broken in Opera Hi, I finished a nice update for my website, added a browser detection script on my css because IE doensn't like web standards. Now my site works in all the browsers I have exept for Opera, and I don't know why, can anyone help me with this? the url is http://jellybean.uni.cc n.b. it uses style.css in firefox/mozilla, and styleie.css all other browsers All the pages on the site are valid xhtml+xml and both css files are valid. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] New Standards Compliant Website
Hey WSG, Just need a little assistance here. http://inspiro.neester.com/ Click on ABOUT. In IE the content panel seems to overlap the whole nav panel too... I know its to do with the image floating right. But how can such a thing be fixed? Cheers -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] New Standards Compliant Website
Sorry by the way i havnt finished styling the site yet. So no need to comment on the contact page and the others :) Cheers Chris Stratford wrote: Hey WSG, Just need a little assistance here. http://inspiro.neester.com/ Click on ABOUT. In IE the content panel seems to overlap the whole nav panel too... I know its to do with the image floating right. But how can such a thing be fixed? Cheers -- Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.neester.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] italian ATAG 2.0 analysis
Hello IOSHI have published an italian analysis of the WD ATAG 2.0 http://www.ioshi.org/pubblicazioni/analisi.WD-ATAG20-20040224.html Automatical translation (by google) http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ioshi.org%2Fpubblic azioni%2Fanalisi.WD-ATAG20-20040224.htmllangpair=it%7Cenhl=enie=UTF-8oe= UTF-8prev=%2Flanguage_tools Best regards Luca Mascaro ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] vertical scroll bar...
Steve Winter wrote: Is there any way to have a permanent left hand scroll bar in standards compliant browsers...?? This is to be considered a hack, but: have a look at forcing scrollbars experiment (inspired, and later used, by Jon Hicks) http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/49/ -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using small in a p
Paul Connolley wrote: I believe small is valid in HTML 4 but cannot find reference in XHTML at all. The easiest way to check is to open the DTD that is referenced in your doctype declaration and search for the word small. Or just create a test page and run it through the validator...call me lazy, but that's what I normally do ;-) -- Patrick H. Lauke _ redux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
