RE: [WSG] London Web Standards Conference
Quoting Mike Foskett [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Just getting the boss to agree to pay and then I'm happy mike -Original Message- From: Patrick Griffiths [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] @media 2005: Web Standards Accessibility is coming... http://www.atmedia2005.co.uk Patrick I'm still trying to convince the big honchos to pay for me to go to SXSW (we have a small budget) :( http://2005.sxsw.com/interactive/ the @media site looks sweet, congrats Patrick! · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ! ! b l u e w e b d e s i g n e r email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ firefox : http://getfirefox.com/ · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Fwd: RE: [WSG] how so I stop all the postings coming to my email box?
WSG's feed page (http://webstandardsgroup.org/rss.cfm) gives me this error when I viewed it (FF 1.0PR, Win XP): + + + + + + + + + + + CODE + + + + + + + + + + XML Parsing Error: not well-formed Location: http://webstandardsgroup.org/rss.cfm Line Number 250, Column 100: description![CDATA[gt; Is there any way to force word wrap, even on single ---^ + + + + + + + + + + + /CODE + + + + + + + + + + don't know what it means. later, Zulema · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ! ! b l u e w e b d e s i g n e r email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ firefox : http://mozilla.org/products/firefox/ · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · - Forwarded message from Peter Firminger [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:36:36 +1000 From: Peter Firminger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] how so I stop all the postings coming to my email box? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Casey, While answering your question I am also answering some other enquiries I have had recently so it's of interest to all (otherwise I'd answer off list). Joining WSG simply means joining the WSG mailing list. That's all there is (well, you can also add resources to the website as a member). I don't know what people expect for nothing. A badge or jacket? A secret handshake? Yes, digest mode will gather all the emails sent in a day and give them to you in one email. Probably a good idea to try it and see what it does. Most people with any list experience know what digest mode is, so I didn't think it needed explanation. It's quite clear in the terms of joining that you are joining a mailing list and the join message from the list server confirms it further. I'll look at the language and adjust if I think it's unclear. We don't have boards to read, we have a mailing list and given the complexity of the subject, there is often a lot of list traffic. This means that it's working as intended and nearly 1100 people around the world get answers to many questions and read some interesting debates on important issues like the correct use of elements within HTML and XHTML (semantics) and the appropriate uses of the languages. We get private emails from many members thanking us and saying how much the discussions have helped them, even though they didn't ask the initial question. I'm really not sure what you were expecting (boards?) but this is a mailing list, and seemingly a very effective one. Having said all that, when I get some time (or when someone offers to pay me while I do it 'cause I do have to eat and paying work comes first) I am looking at adding some fields to the member database so that you can be a member and not be on the mail list. This however means you won't be able to post to the list. We will give you some methods to read the list without receiving it in your mailbox. These include the current methods: The members archive ( http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/archive.cfm ), the public archive ( http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg%40webstandardsgroup.org/ ) and an RSS feed ( http://webstandardsgroup.org/rss.cfm ) you can read in something like FeedDemon. The date/time order in these is a little off but they seem to work fine. No, there will not be a NewsGroup, a forum or a message board. The only method of getting help will be the mailing list as that is the root of this group. Personally, the mail list (with some filters in the email client) works perfectly for me. Others choose a web-based email account (yahoo, hotmail or gmail) for reading the list posts. I have been testing the RSS feed and it's really no different. For those that have asked about list features, SmarterMail 2.0 has now been released and I'll be installing it soon so we may get a better Digest mode and hopefully (I haven't seen whether they implemented our suggestions) see the end of HTML email on the list altogether. Finally, let me point out that Russ and I (and the other core members) cannot watch the list every minute of the day. We have businesses to run and clients to keep happy. So not getting an answer within an hour is really not surprising from a group (not club) with no membership fees. Also, we are in an entirely different time zone to you in Arizona (though our server is actually in Phoenix), all the core group are in eastern Australia. Welcome to the group Casey, I hope this clears up your questions. Regards, Peter Firminger - End forwarded message - Hi Casey, While answering your question I am also answering some other enquiries I have had recently so it's of interest to all (otherwise I'd answer off list). Joining WSG simply means joiningthe WSGmailing list. That's all there is (well, you can also add resources to the website as a member). I don't know what people expect for nothing. A badge or jacket? A
Re: [WSG] FWD: remove p widows/orphans?
Justin, Now I have water to throw on the fire brought forth by the designers here! ;) I do understand that the br's are doing more harm then good, so thank you for offering your perspective as a designer. I always speak up when the designers ask for a break here or a break there and let them know the dangling text is unavoidable; it's like you say, A particular machine with ITS particular fonts, etc, etc. will always show slightly different results. *sigh* thanks again! Zulema · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · z u l e m a o r t i z w e b d e s i g n e r email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Quoting Justin French [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Zulema, First and foremost, I am a designer, so please take this advice from someone who understands really beautiful typography, but also understands when the web won't comply. This is definitely a case of don't bother. For starters, you're typesetting those orphans and widows on YOUR screen, with YOUR fonts, with YOUR resolution, with YOUR browser. The problem is, what looks perfect on your screen will be an absolute mess on someone else's, because your hard-coded br /'s will more than likely appear mid-line on someone else's system. This is an unavoidable reality which you need to accept and move on: br /'s are doing WAY more harm than good - they're not a typesetting tool, they're designed to be used in things like poetry, where a break in the flow of the text is intended. Most typographic resources discuss orphans and widows in reference to lines which are separated from the rest of their paragraph over a page break or column break. However in this case, I assume you mean single words that are pushed down to a line all by themselves, like the last word in a paragraph, right? Assuming this is what you want to prevent, then the quickest hack I can think of is to use a no break space (nbsp;) inbetween the last two words in each paragraph, forcing them to appear on the same line. However this isn't much of a solution. As you no doubt know, the problem with this is that sometimes forcing the 2nd-last word down as well will cause the preceding line to appear quite short, in which case you'd bump other words around until the paragraph was well-balanced. This is simply not possible with HTML, due to the lack of control you have over the user's environment and settings, and the fact that you can't *visually* look at the paragraph on everyone's screen and decide what's best -- it's out of your control. Modern DTP programs like InDesign currently make visual corrections to the line breaks in a paragraph automatically, so my suggestion here is to simply leave it alone, and let the browser's own line-wrapping mechanisms decide where to wrap. Over time, as browsers improve, it's my guess that they will handle line-wrapping, orphans, widows, etc, much like InDesign does, but until then, your br /'s are definitely doing more harm than good. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Fwd: remove p widows/orphans?
Hi, Is there a way to eliminate widows/orphans in paragraphs? Not when the html page is printed out, but when viewed in a browser. I wanted to know if anyone's run into this and knows how to fix/kludge/hack? (preferably something that would validate of course) If not, I'll keep on adding br /'s where necessary as I've done in the past. =:-O the horror!! thanks, Zulema · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · z u l e m a o r t i z w e b d e s i g n e r email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] CSS support table?
Hi all, Where can I find some sort of table that lists the CSS attributes and the browsers that support each attribute? I've found a few here and there, for example: -- www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/browser_support/basic_concepts.html or -- www.w3schools.com/css/css_reference.asp are there any others I should be looking at? thanks, Zulema · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Z u l e m a O r t i z w e b d e s i g n e r email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Design Philosophy
Jeremy, Can I copy your statement, paste it in Illustrator, make it prettty bold, and post it here at work on the bulletin board? Please?! Too many creatives here (at where I work) don't seem to understand this concept... thanks, Zulema · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ! ! b l u e w e b d e s i g n e r email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · Quoting Jeremy Flint [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On the web, you really have NO control over your site once it is public. Users have the ability to disable styles, images, apply different fonts and colors that override yours. The only thing you truly have control over is the information and the code behind it. All asthetic aspects of a site are open to whether a user wants to see them. - Jeremy Flint www.jeremyflint.com Alan Milnes wrote: I have seen some articles on the web that say we shouldn't care about how our web sites look as long as they use valid mark up language and separate content from presentation. Personally I want to design web sites that:- 1) Look good in standards compliant browsers. 2) Degrade gracefully in other browsers. 3) Are accessible to other devices (one of my readers uses Internet Television so this is a real practical issue for me). Is this a reasonable philosophy or is there something I have missed in this debate? Alan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
