Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links (and accessibility)
On 10/23/07, Moira Clunie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/19/07, Michael MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: not much good for someone using a device without sound From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Or Golan I'm guessing that a person who uses a screen reader has sound on his device. Not necessarily - screen reader software can output to synthetic speech and/or to refreshable braille. Some people use a screen reader with a refreshable braille display and no sound. Moira Is there a place I can read about that technology (screen readers with refreshable braille)? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
On 10/19/07, Michael MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: not much good for someone using a device without sound I'm guessing that a person who uses a screen reader has sound on his device. I'm not saying use only sound, but more like using a gif that has your email in it, and when you click on it sound comes out. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Screen readers run on top of normal browsers like IE of Firefox Didn't know that this is how screen readers work. Well, the best way to let visually impaired people see your email, is just do something the spambots can't get and the ones you want to gets the email will get it. Simply put it as an audio file. Record yourself reading your email, the spambots can't get it and the people using screen readers will simply click on the audio file and listen to the email, just as if it was written there. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Encoded mailto links
Why not simply display the email address as a simple mailto only when the browser is a screen reader? On 10/17/07, Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 17/10/07 (14:16) Patrick said: Fix your spam issues at the mail server + mail client end, not at the web page end, would be my advice. David said: I, long ago, gave up trying. Methods are either highly ineffective, or block out users you want as well as spam bots. I take the view that email addresses are going to end up on spam lists eventually no matter what I do, and just run spam filtering software. So the general consensus would seem to be forgeddabowdit. I wondered if that would be the result, but I'm surprised that there isn't a workaround -- only because almost everything else that I thought would be impossible some clever person has found a way to do. To join with Andrew Maben, however, I'd be curious to know whether spambots decode encoded entity text, eg: 'user' becomes '#117;#115;#101;#114;' (ignore quote marks). I assume that they can read them perfectly easily -- browsers can, after all -- but it'd be good to know for sure. Same question for screen readers. -- Rick Lecoat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
Target are saying If you are blind, you are worthless. We only take money from people who aren't like you. In a physical environment the equivalent would be turning them away at the door. Would you tolerate that if it was based on gender, religion or race? That's not what Target are saying. It's like a deaf person comes into their store and requests for assistance but no one speaks the sign language and he can't lip read. Is it discrimination not to have a sign-speaking person in your store just in case a deaf person comes in? we have to force corporations to do good things. It doesn't sound right. Why should anyone be forced to do the right thing? You can't force anyone to be nice, generous and good-natured, you can only encourage that. Forcing people to do the right thing is wrong. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
Target are saying If you are blind, you are worthless. We only take money from people who aren't like you. In a physical environment the equivalent would be turning them away at the door. Would you tolerate that if it was based on gender, religion or race? That's not what Target are saying. It's like a deaf person comes into their store and requests for assistance but no one speaks the sign language and he can't lip read. Is it discrimination not to have a sign-speaking person in your store just in case a deaf person comes in? we have to force corporations to do good things. It doesn't sound right. Why should anyone be forced to do the right thing? You can't force anyone to be nice, generous and good-natured, you can only encourage that. Forcing people to do the right thing is wrong. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
Target are saying If you are blind, you are worthless. We only take money from people who aren't like you. In a physical environment the equivalent would be turning them away at the door. Would you tolerate that if it was based on gender, religion or race? That's not what Target are saying. It's like a deaf person comes into their store and requests for assistance but no one speaks the sign language and he can't lip read. Is it discrimination not to have a sign-speaking person in your store just in case a deaf person comes in? we have to force corporations to do good things. It doesn't sound right. Why should anyone be forced to do the right thing? You can't force anyone to be nice, generous and good-natured, you can only encourage that. Forcing people to do the right thing is wrong. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
even if making their site accessible to the blind costs target 0 dollars and 0 work, even if they need to just flip a button and bang - their site is accessible, it doesn't mean the law should force them to do it. what i really don't understand is why did the blind people sued target..if target doesn't want to make their site accessible it's their right to do it. there is no reason for the government to force its will on a private company. you can and you should make the stores accessible to everyone, but telling the stores how to make their sites is like telling them what services should the staff give to the people who come in. it's like Andreas said, the company is allowed to choose what service it wants to give to the public. if a company doesn't want to make a site, they are allowed to. but if they make a site, it doesn't mean they have to make it available to everyone. if they choose to make a Spanish site so that they won't have to have people who speak spanish in the shop, but still be able to sell to the Hispanic community, is it discrimination against english-speakers? On 10/4/07, Karl Lurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russ, time to step in the ring perhaps? On 10/4/07, Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yes for an old site I no longer need. but been too busy fixing sites that people actually need and use. fair nuff. you gonna sue me? On Oct 3 2007, at 23:33, Chris Wilson wrote: If you are going to argue for standards and accesability, follow your own advice first. Captain table layout over here. You don't even have alt tags on your images. Hypocritical aren't ya? Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.joiz.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard
You are right, there is no reason in the world not to make your site accessible. It's easy and it is cheap, and it makes your site better. The question is, why should we force anyone to do it? No one makes his site non-accessible out of discriminating motives. They do it because they are either lazy or ignorant. Ignoring a request to fix the site is still not discrimination, it is simply not caring. Target's managers are dumb, but they didn't do anything illegal. On 10/4/07, Joseph Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please compare like with like. Target and your local grocery store are not a valid comparison. target were approached, had the issue politely explained, were shown suggestions as to how it could be fixed, were given both financial and legislative reasons to do so and decided to say no. I don' wwanna stop usin' slaves coz they's cheaper to manage than cattle and they work in my financial favour. My farm, my business, my decision, so get off my land! So take your northern ways back to New York with ya! ...h. The legislature is supposed to be a check on business poractices for the benefit of the populace in general. On Oct 04, 2007, at 02:00, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Breton Slivka Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2007 10:34 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: A: [WSG] Target Lawsuit - Please Make Yourself Heard Target is a business, and they ain't in the business of making art. We are talking about a business that, despite one of the comments on that blog, HAS made a concious decision to exclude a portion of the populace from using their website. I know this because I've seen the reasoning before. Who cares about blind people? they're a small part of the population anyway. Let's just make the whole thing flash. Yes, they are a business. They are trying to make money. Like all of us. All of their decisions were conscious and based on the premise to make money: use flash for marketing purposes. Save money by getting in a crappy web development company. Save money by not targeting a select group of people. So what? Are you blaming them for running a business? We all have to make these kind of decisions: how do we save money, who are the customer groups we are trying to address... If you don't make those decisions you are a crappy business person and your business won't exist for very long. Whether their decisions were right or wrong in our eyes is not the point. They have got the right to make those decisions because they are a private company. Would anybody go and sue the local grocery store for having an inaccessible website? No. Because nobody would expect them to spend much time or money or effort into building a website that works. So where do you draw the line? If a company earns millions of dollars then they should suddenly have to be liable for making their websites accessible? But if the company only earns a few thousands of dollars then it's all fine? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** == Joe Ortenzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
