Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
Thanks all, I guess the many explanations explain just why I've never done it with pure CSS before. I'll go back to my javascript and have a coke and a smile. ;) On 31 Mar 2004, at 07:28, scott parsons wrote: Well it depends upon the exact behaviour desired, and the browsers you want to support, but something like this can be done with the :focus, :target or for win/ie the broken model of :active I wouldn't necessarily suggest that any of these methods are perfect, and would reccommend javascript but hey there are possibilities there s P.H.Lauke wrote: What you describe can only be achieved with javascript, if you want to avoid server calls and do it all in a single document...the page needs to keep track of which link has been pressed, for instance...something that CSS is not meant for... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster University of Salford www.salford.ac.uk * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
Nick I stand corrected... As I am a Mac user, where things are made to standards, I often forget that MSIE doesn't no how to render standards. ;-) ...just kidding. But we as a developer web standards community should proactively boycott MSIE. Leo On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, at 09:07 PM, Nick Cowie wrote: Seriously there is a lot you can do, but it will not work in IE without javascript. And seeing most people use IE, you might as well use javascript. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
P Your right... I blew that one in the details. Leo On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, at 09:14 PM, P.H.Lauke wrote: but that doesn't solve the original problem as far as I understood it. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
From: Leo J. O'Campo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] A good point... but if someone elects to turn off javascript they do it at their own disadvantage. *cough* accessibility *cough* Also don't forget that in some instances the specific setup/capabilities of machines is not up to the individual users (e.g. large corporates with draconian IT departments) Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster University of Salford www.salford.ac.uk winmail.dat
Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
Patrick First PLEASE do not display my email address to the open list. Thank you. *cough* accessibility *cough* Unless there is a reason I am not thinking of, I'd think people who want accessibility would keep javascript enabled. Also don't forget that in some instances the specific setup/capabilities of machines is not up to the individual users (e.g. large corporates with draconian IT departments) Javascript has been around for a long long time, so I doubt there are many draconian IT departments not using it. And if they aren't... well my comment stands. Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
Justin To say that anyone concerned with accessibility should have JavaScript enabled **utterly misses the point**. Accessibility is about providing access to the content for the widest possible number of users, regardless of how they're accessing it. Hmm.. well Justin your missing my point. I did not use those words. My point was if a page was designed for JavaScript to be used, then disabling it, is to your own disadvantage. A perfect example is the steady increase of browsers and tools for mobile phones and PDAs... most of them come without javascript (or at least a very limited subset), Your perfect PDA example is why we use alternative stylesheets to offer content to alternative media. Web standards advocate that content be separate for presentation and I'd proactively add navigation to that. By providing content in a way that can only be accessed with a javascript enabled web browser, you're making you content inaccessible to all users. A point I have never personally disagreed with. In fact I never use Javascript for anything when CSS or server side PHP can do the same thing. You may not care, but *that* is accessibility. I don't know where this came from... Justin I am physically disabled and as a person with disabilities, I ALWAYS care about accessibility and not just on web pages. Your mouseover-javascript-piece-of-magic-widget probably requires the fluid use of a mouse (which ignores the fact that not every one has perfect motor skills), probably has tiny fonts that break the layout when enlarged for visually impaired users, etc. This is just outright insulting to me because I don't use JavaScript for menus, so it's not mine your talking about, and personally I think the size of the type on this email or at most accessibility oriented web sites, is way too small. ;-) Leo * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
Leo, On 01/04/2004, at 1:49 PM, Leo J. O'Campo wrote: To say that anyone concerned with accessibility should have JavaScript enabled **utterly misses the point**. Accessibility is about providing access to the content for the widest possible number of users, regardless of how they're accessing it. Hmm.. well Justin your missing my point. I did not use those words. My point was if a page was designed for JavaScript to be used, then disabling it, is to your own disadvantage. And you're missing mine :D Usually disabling (or not having) JavaScript is not a conscious decision -- I know there would be a minority of technically knowledgeable web users who would specifically go into their Internet Options/Preferences and disable JS by choice, but this is definitely a minority. In most cases, my educated guess is that if JS is disabled or not available, it will be a choice made by someone else: - the useragent vendor (defaults to off, or not available at all) - an IT manager, department head, or some other paranoid management type - a 'power user' friend, colleague, who modified the settings for whatever reason - the owner of the computer (in the case of shared or public computers) As such, I don't blame the lack of JavaScript on the user. Therefore, any page which relies on javascript being enabled for it's functionality is inaccessible, and I blame THAT on the web developer and site owner, not the user. It's to the *website's* disadvantage, not the *user's*, because they've just turned away a reader/customer/client/friend. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
What you describe can only be achieved with javascript, if you want to avoid server calls and do it all in a single document...the page needs to keep track of which link has been pressed, for instance...something that CSS is not meant for... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster University of Salford www.salford.ac.uk winmail.dat
Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
What you describe can only be achieved with javascript However, you can show/hide text (and in some browsers images) using hover as shown here: http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo.html and here: http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/popups/demo2.html This isn't what you asked for, but it might be helpful depending on what you're really trying to achieve. Bill McAvinney * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
Patrick It can be done in CSS by toggling the display visibility with the a:hover and positioning. Leo On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, at 04:41 PM, P.H.Lauke wrote: What you describe can only be achieved with javascript, if you want to avoid server calls and do it all in a single document...the page needs to keep track of which link has been pressed, for instance...something that CSS is not meant for... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster University of Salford www.salford.ac.uk winmail.dat * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
Leo wrote: It can be done in CSS by toggling the display visibility with the a:hover and positioning. Except is does not work in that browser. (you know the one I mean Internet Exploder ) There are a number of tricks you can do with hover and CSS for people using CSS2 compliant browsers have a look at the suckerfish dropdowns on a list apart for a starting point and go from there, it is only limited by your imagination, hard work and how many people using the wrong browser ;-). Seriously there is a lot you can do, but it will not work in IE without javascript. And seeing most people use IE, you might as well use javascript. Nick * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
I beg to differ. If you re-read the thread starter, you'll see that the question was about clicking a link, and making one thing visible, clicking another, and another one becomes visible. You can't toggle things on/off via clicks, and then let the user move out of the element to do something on the rest of the page. It's true you can use :hover/:focus, but that doesn't solve the original problem as far as I understood it. P -Original Message- From: Leo J. O'Campo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 31/03/2004 02:18 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things) Patrick It can be done in CSS by toggling the display visibility with the a:hover and positioning. Leo On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, at 04:41 PM, P.H.Lauke wrote: What you describe can only be achieved with javascript, if you want to avoid server calls and do it all in a single document...the page needs to keep track of which link has been pressed, for instance...something that CSS is not meant for... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster University of Salford www.salford.ac.uk winmail.dat * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * N.X+i nZv+hymjl.f.wq(b(,)azX)i
RE: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
And seeing most people use IE, you might as well use javascript. Whether or not people use IE has nothing to do with whether or not they have javascript enabled or not. Available, yes...but not necessarily enabled. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster University of Salford www.salford.ac.uk http://www.salford.ac.uk winmail.dat
Re: [WSG] Show/hide layers without javascript (was: [WSG] How to do some things)
Well it depends upon the exact behaviour desired, and the browsers you want to support, but something like this can be done with the :focus, :target or for win/ie the broken model of :active I wouldn't necessarily suggest that any of these methods are perfect, and would reccommend javascript but hey there are possibilities there s P.H.Lauke wrote: What you describe can only be achieved with javascript, if you want to avoid server calls and do it all in a single document...the page needs to keep track of which link has been pressed, for instance...something that CSS is not meant for... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Webmaster University of Salford www.salford.ac.uk * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
