Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all SIDENOTE to Mislav (or anyone who can answer)
On 10/24/06, somercamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Mislav, on a side note, when you say all at once, do you mean one after another or is there a javascript et. al. that enables simultaneous bookmarking? I mean simply one after another. I take heavy advantage of tag surfing and constantly have many tabs open. When I'm sure I want to save the things I'm reading, I repeatedly click on the tag icon of the official extension. That opens up many windows of the posting form, through which I go all at once tagging them and submitting. So when I'm doing a bigger research, my fans and friends not using Del but which are subscribed to my feed can get pretty overwhelmed with the information. I don't believe in automated bulk posting even if it existed in a form of a script. I can't rely on a bot tagging stuff for me, I simply must do it by hand for each resource. -- Mislav http://del.icio.us/mislav [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all
We current do that on registration. You want us to have that on every post too? How about the API, etc? The problem is deeper than you think, unfortunately. _ From: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of somercamb Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:23 AM To: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all if that is the answer, then why not create an anti-spam keyword feature where you're forced to enter a word shown in a graphic, like so many websites and bloggers do already --- In ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com , smileandnodmonkey jm- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The answer I keep seeing (and I've asked for this, too) is that it would encourage spammers to import lots of bookmarks and make them public in one easy step. Personally, I think if the spammers are preventing the users from getting features they need, then the spammers have already won. But I wish we could at LEAST have the ability to SEE all of our private links at once, like with a system:private tag or something. --- In ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com , somercamb somercamb@ wrote: Is there a way to simultaneously change all bookmarks to private or shared, rather than one by one? I essentially want to share all of them except for a few, so I would SHARE all of them and then go back to the select few and make them private. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all
Hi Joshua, Joshua Schachter wrote: We current do that on registration. You want us to have that on every post too? How about the API, etc? The problem is deeper than you think, unfortunately. I think the suggestion is not to do it on every post, but on every batch sharing operation. I guess it wouldn't help much, though, as we are not talking about robots, here, but humans. I have two suggestions: - use the anti-spam keyword idea, as suggested by somercamb, and limit the batch operation to only 20, 50 or 100 bookmarks at a time. This way, for someone legitimately sharing a new import, it would be a bit annoying, but not so much. For a massive spammer, it would be really annoying - keep a record of batch operation. That way, if spam is reported on such an operation, you could roll it back There is one question I'm wondering: what kind of spam are we talking about here, for what volume? Cheers, Ben _ From: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of somercamb Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:23 AM To: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all if that is the answer, then why not create an anti-spam keyword feature where you're forced to enter a word shown in a graphic, like so many websites and bloggers do already Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all
On 10/23/06, somercamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: if that is the answer, then why not create an anti-spam keyword feature where you're forced to enter a word shown in a graphic, like so many websites and bloggers do already I already explained, but you didn't understand. CAPTCHAs prevent atomated spambots to post comments (on some blogs), register for services and similar things. There are many clever ways spammers figured out to get their bots around CAPTCHAs, but even if they do they are considerably slowed down - they planned to hit these HTML forms hundreds or even thousands of times. On del.icio.us import, to posion tag listings with thousands of spam sites you need only one hit (file upload, to be exact) and that's why their bots don't even matter - spammers can easily take several minutes of their time and upload the file by hand, circumventing any robot-blocking methods del.icio.us team have put up. The trouble here is defining spam on social bookmarking sites. Spam is easily recognized on blog comments, wikis, but on social bookmarking sites like Del the whole point is to submit links to other sites! That means everyone who's using Del is a kind of a spammer - our links appear on our pages, in tag listings, in other people's feeds... Sometimes I stumble upon a bunch of cool JavaScript resources at once and I tag them all at once, resulting in even 10-20 new links in a short amount of time. To some people who are not interested in JavaScript that is spam, but to most of the people on Del it isn't, since it is one of the most popular topics. Some of my friends already complained about me spamming them with Ruby on Rails links :) So new Del users want to share hundreds, sometimes thousands of their cool links at once by importing from their browsers, other social services... That's OK, we want to allow that, do we? But spammers want to do exactly that, too - they only want to share their cool sites about poker, viagra, mortgage loans (and similar) with us. They want to do it because people then go to those sites and actually buy viagra, play poker and takeloans. And not only spammers make money by sharing links - many people get money too as ad revenue by submitting links to their own sites and articles they wrote. We can't blame them for that. If we can first define spam on social bookmarking sites, only then we can start talking about slowing it down or even blocking it. Joshua, did/does del.icio.us have problems with automated postings or spamming by hand? Did the team take some measures to detect those? Are users blocked when they make too much simultaneous posts? We'd like to hear your experiences. -- Mislav [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all
I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense. Horrible UI, too. For what it's worth, the two other reasons for forcing privacy on the imports are: a) people frequently have corporate-internal sites that shouldn't be exposed and need to be checked by hand b) various places would get spammed by valid but boring links from the various browser defaults. I like the idea of seeing all private items (perhaps an automatically added tag) and want there to be an easier way to modify items in bulk. We do see a great deal of spam activity currently. Joshua _ From: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Sib Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 1:21 PM To: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all Hi Joshua, Joshua Schachter wrote: We current do that on registration. You want us to have that on every post too? How about the API, etc? The problem is deeper than you think, unfortunately. I think the suggestion is not to do it on every post, but on every batch sharing operation. I guess it wouldn't help much, though, as we are not talking about robots, here, but humans. I have two suggestions: - use the anti-spam keyword idea, as suggested by somercamb, and limit the batch operation to only 20, 50 or 100 bookmarks at a time. This way, for someone legitimately sharing a new import, it would be a bit annoying, but not so much. For a massive spammer, it would be really annoying - keep a record of batch operation. That way, if spam is reported on such an operation, you could roll it back There is one question I'm wondering: what kind of spam are we talking about here, for what volume? Cheers, Ben _ From: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of somercamb Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:23 AM To: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all if that is the answer, then why not create an anti-spam keyword feature where you're forced to enter a word shown in a graphic, like so many websites and bloggers do already [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all
Thanks for the lecture. Every item is stored with an intent somewhere between storing the saver's attention and attracting attention from other people. Normal users lean to the left on that axis, and spammers to the right. Unfortunately, the actual mechanism for both are largely indistinguishable and it is the intent that matters. Like I said, this is more than a minor annoyance for me and the team. _ From: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mislav Marohnic Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 1:21 PM To: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all On 10/23/06, somercamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:somercamb%40yahoo.com wrote: if that is the answer, then why not create an anti-spam keyword feature where you're forced to enter a word shown in a graphic, like so many websites and bloggers do already I already explained, but you didn't understand. CAPTCHAs prevent atomated spambots to post comments (on some blogs), register for services and similar things. There are many clever ways spammers figured out to get their bots around CAPTCHAs, but even if they do they are considerably slowed down - they planned to hit these HTML forms hundreds or even thousands of times. On del.icio.us import, to posion tag listings with thousands of spam sites you need only one hit (file upload, to be exact) and that's why their bots don't even matter - spammers can easily take several minutes of their time and upload the file by hand, circumventing any robot-blocking methods del.icio.us team have put up. The trouble here is defining spam on social bookmarking sites. Spam is easily recognized on blog comments, wikis, but on social bookmarking sites like Del the whole point is to submit links to other sites! That means everyone who's using Del is a kind of a spammer - our links appear on our pages, in tag listings, in other people's feeds... Sometimes I stumble upon a bunch of cool JavaScript resources at once and I tag them all at once, resulting in even 10-20 new links in a short amount of time. To some people who are not interested in JavaScript that is spam, but to most of the people on Del it isn't, since it is one of the most popular topics. Some of my friends already complained about me spamming them with Ruby on Rails links :) So new Del users want to share hundreds, sometimes thousands of their cool links at once by importing from their browsers, other social services... That's OK, we want to allow that, do we? But spammers want to do exactly that, too - they only want to share their cool sites about poker, viagra, mortgage loans (and similar) with us. They want to do it because people then go to those sites and actually buy viagra, play poker and takeloans. And not only spammers make money by sharing links - many people get money too as ad revenue by submitting links to their own sites and articles they wrote. We can't blame them for that. If we can first define spam on social bookmarking sites, only then we can start talking about slowing it down or even blocking it. Joshua, did/does del.icio.us have problems with automated postings or spamming by hand? Did the team take some measures to detect those? Are users blocked when they make too much simultaneous posts? We'd like to hear your experiences. -- Mislav [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all
Not on every post, etc., but perhaps in certain, discrete contexts, e.g., mass imports - which was, I believe, the case in question. On 10/23/06, Joshua Schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We current do that on registration. You want us to have that on every post too? How about the API, etc? The problem is deeper than you think, unfortunately. _ From: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of somercamb Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:23 AM To: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all if that is the answer, then why not create an anti-spam keyword feature where you're forced to enter a word shown in a graphic, like so many websites and bloggers do already --- In ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com , smileandnodmonkey jm- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The answer I keep seeing (and I've asked for this, too) is that it would encourage spammers to import lots of bookmarks and make them public in one easy step. Personally, I think if the spammers are preventing the users from getting features they need, then the spammers have already won. But I wish we could at LEAST have the ability to SEE all of our private links at once, like with a system:private tag or something. --- In ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com , somercamb somercamb@ wrote: Is there a way to simultaneously change all bookmarks to private or shared, rather than one by one? I essentially want to share all of them except for a few, so I would SHARE all of them and then go back to the select few and make them private. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all
Not a terrible idea. Hmm. _ From: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Sib Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 2:09 PM To: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all Another idea of a compromise: how about a state between private and shared, where imported bookmarks are accessible to people who specifically access your profile, but do not add up to the global stats. This way, people (like me...) who use del.icio.us more as a storing tool could consult their imported bookmarks without logging in. Joshua Schachter wrote: I'm not sure that makes a lot of sense. Horrible UI, too. For what it's worth, the two other reasons for forcing privacy on the imports are: a) people frequently have corporate-internal sites that shouldn't be exposed and need to be checked by hand b) various places would get spammed by valid but boring links from the various browser defaults. I like the idea of seeing all private items (perhaps an automatically added tag) and want there to be an easier way to modify items in bulk. We do see a great deal of spam activity currently. Joshua _ From: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Ben Sib Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 1:21 PM To: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all Hi Joshua, Joshua Schachter wrote: We current do that on registration. You want us to have that on every post too? How about the API, etc? The problem is deeper than you think, unfortunately. I think the suggestion is not to do it on every post, but on every batch sharing operation. I guess it wouldn't help much, though, as we are not talking about robots, here, but humans. I have two suggestions: - use the anti-spam keyword idea, as suggested by somercamb, and limit the batch operation to only 20, 50 or 100 bookmarks at a time. This way, for someone legitimately sharing a new import, it would be a bit annoying, but not so much. For a massive spammer, it would be really annoying - keep a record of batch operation. That way, if spam is reported on such an operation, you could roll it back There is one question I'm wondering: what kind of spam are we talking about here, for what volume? Cheers, Ben _ From: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of somercamb Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 9:23 AM To: ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [ydn-delicious] Re: sharing all / privatizing all if that is the answer, then why not create an anti-spam keyword feature where you're forced to enter a word shown in a graphic, like so many websites and bloggers do already [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
