Re: [ZION] The September Six Today
At 07:44 PM 8/19/2003, Jon wrote: What I find interesting is that of those whose works I have read, I found only Gileadi to be inspired, long before I knew that he had been ex'ed. My understanding of Isaiah expanded tremendously when I read his first book (well, the first one of his that I read). The others left me cold. Isn't it interesting that it was he and he alone who humbled himself. Jon Avraham Gileadi's best and most inspired book, in my opinion, was, _The Book of Isaiah: A New Translation with Interpretative Keys from the Book of Mormon_. But more specifically, the 93 page introduction where one is introduced to the various interpretative keys. Whatever Gileadi's past mistakes might have been, I too am impressed by his humility. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . in the future the opposition from Satan will be both more subtle and more open. While in some ways it may be more blatant, it will be masked with greater sophistication and cunning. We will need greater spirituality to perceive all the forms of evil and greater strength to resist it. (President James E. Faust, CR, April 2003) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The September Six Today
At 07:08 AM 8/20/2003 -0600, St Steven wrote: At 07:44 PM 8/19/2003, Jon wrote: What I find interesting is that of those whose works I have read, I found only Gileadi to be inspired, long before I knew that he had been ex'ed. My understanding of Isaiah expanded tremendously when I read his first book (well, the first one of his that I read). The others left me cold. Isn't it interesting that it was he and he alone who humbled himself. Jon Avraham Gileadi's best and most inspired book, in my opinion, was, _The Book of Isaiah: A New Translation with Interpretative Keys from the Book of Mormon_. But more specifically, the 93 page introduction where one is introduced to the various interpretative keys. Whatever Gileadi's past mistakes might have been, I too am impressed by his humility. I, too, have the utmost respect for Brother Gileadi's insights into such an important work as Isaiah. I refuse to go the route of speculating. By his works I will know him. The others that were talked about gave me feelings of having pushed my hand into a warm bucket of 3 month old milk. ELF // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] The September Six Today
Jon Spencer: [on Gileadi] My understanding of Isaiah expanded tremendously when I read his first book ... Isn't it interesting that it was he and he alone who humbled himself. ___ It is my understanding that, though part of his writing was considered controversial by some, there were other issues involved in his departure from the Church which he resolved, resulting in his return. His link to the September Six may well be tenuous. I do not mention this to start a discussion about him, because he is not on this list and I do no plan to talk about it. I would simply like to echo your comment about the difference between his experience and the experience of the others, which was quite noticeable in the article John quoted. There is much to say for listening to our priesthood leaders and being humble, no matter what the circumstances. Larry Jackson The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
[ZION] The September Six Today
Read this today, and thought there might be some here who are interested in this news story by Peggy Fletcher Stack from the Sunstone Symposium. --- Exiles in Zion Lynne Kanavel Whitesides, disfellowshipped for her feminist writings and public statements (Paul Fraughton/The Salt Lake Tribune) By Peggy Fletcher Stack The Salt Lake Tribune It has been 10 years since six Mormon intellectuals were rebuked and tossed out of the LDS Church in a single month for challenging its teachings on feminism, authority and history. The punitive actions, likely orchestrated by leaders in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, forever melded the scholars and writers into a club they never intended to join. They even had a common name -- the September Six -- whispered by intellectuals and trumpeted by the news media. Since that moment, however, they have taken divergent paths. Avraham Gileadi, an Old Testament scholar who has spent his life researching and writing about the biblical prophet Isaiah's prophecies about our time, kept the lowest profile. He was rebaptized into the LDS Church in 1996 and continues to write for a Mormon audience. His most recent book, Isaiah Decoded, is on sale at church-owned Deseret Book. The other five agreed to share their post-excommunication struggles at this week's Sunstone Symposium, which ends tonight at the Sheraton Centre Hotel in downtown Salt Lake City. The speeches were filled with allusions to death and rebirth. It's like attending your own funeral, said D. Michael Quinn of his excommunication for writing about disturbing elements of Mormon history. Or like taking off a really tight shoe, said feminist Lynn Kanavel Whitesides. I lost my faith. I didn't renounce it, said lawyer Paul Toscano. I just lost it -- like losing one's eyesight after an accident, and not just religious faith, but faith in the power of my words to make a difference. Lavina Fielding Anderson, excommunicated for publishing a list of attacks on intellectuals by LDS leaders, has compared herself to a coin perched precariously on its edge, vulnerable to toppling one way or the other. That's the space I've claimed for myself, said Anderson, a writer and researcher who once worked for the church's official magazines. I'm not in, but I won't be out, either. It's a balancing act every day. Quinn, Anderson and Maxine Hanks, also excommunicated for her feminist writings, were lifelong Mormons. They still treasure that heritage and hold onto much that they once believed. Toscano and Whitesides were converts to the LDS faith and thus more disappointed by what they came to see as the church's failures. Here are their stories, in the order in which they were disciplined in September 1993. Lynn Kanavel Whitesides seemed the epitome of success. She was married in the temple, her husband was a doctor and they had three children. Whitesides was working for Sunstone and had a lot of friends. But she was miserable, she said. My life, the way it had been proscribed, was killing me. Whiteside was disfellowshipped (a kind of probation before excommunication) by her bishop for comments she made on television about how the LDS Church treated women. I exploded out of the church and my marriage and onto a very different path, looking for God and for myself, she said. I was angry. I was in a rage. The church was not delivering what I believed it had promised. The church seemed so masculine, without soft places to find comfort. The absence of the feminine not only makes a home lonely, she said. It's damaging to everybody in the house. Whitesides started on an inward journey toward God, with the help of a therapist and American Indian ceremonies. She stopped blaming her ex-husband, friends, the church and God, for what was wrong with her life. She found a new God -- not the God she imagined as a Mormon, who was looking a me through the barrel of a shotgun, but a loving presence who felt infinitely personal, she said. She read the New Testament with new eyes and found forgiveness and acceptance from a loving Jesus. About two years ago, Whitesides had a kind of vision in the west desert. It was a glimpse, and only a glimpse, of how amazingly beautiful God is. And that I was part of that incredible beauty, she said. Now I'm glad I was a Mormon and really glad I got kicked out. Paul James Toscano's only regret about being excommunicated for criticizing LDS general authorities was that his anger gave the church an excuse to disregard criticism and tighten further the grip of oppression that manacles the church. To him, Mormonism has become an archconservative culture built on the sand of family and tribal values with respectability as its chief cornerstone. Its adherents are less like living stones in the mystical temple of God and more like living stiffs in a morgue of quiet conformity. LDS Church founder Joseph Smith was flawed, lied and acted in self-serving
RE: [ZION] The September Six Today
Something that interests me is the common perception of these malcontents that their disaffection from the church is a punishment. The doctrine of the church regarding disfellowshipment and excommunication is that these actions represent the church's protection against apostasy, and the individual's opportunity to start on the road to repentance. While I suspect the first cause is well served, it seems that except for Brother Gileadi, they lacked the right attitude to approach repentance. There is probably an element of hypocrisy in any observations we might make on this matter. I hope I never have to face the decision between loyalty to an intellectual cause and loyalty to my faith in Heaven Father. May we prosper together and ever try to lift each other up. --- Jim Cobabe // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] The September Six Today
John - This was a very interesting article. It is certainly true that there are fallible men in our Church, and at all levels. I have my own stories of the actions of these men. However, this article was written as if all that was said is the truth. When I am irked at someone in the Church, I always ask myself the question Which commandment is it that I am having a problem keeping? I always find it, and peace follows. When others I know have left the Church (a very small number), I ask the same question. I usually know the answer. These people in general have a problem with their egos. They generally have a problem submitting for reasons they don't understand, when they should know that they will come to understand them. Those who have been to the temple have covenanted to keep the law of consecration. There is much more to this than just worldly goods, in my opinion. But I guess that is fodder for a different thread. What I find interesting is that of those whose works I have read, I found only Gileadi to be inspired, long before I knew that he had been ex'ed. My understanding of Isaiah expanded tremendously when I read his first book (well, the first one of his that I read). The others left me cold. Isn't it interesting that it was he and he alone who humbled himself. Jon - Original Message - From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:34 PM Subject: [ZION] The September Six Today Read this today, and thought there might be some here who are interested in this news story by Peggy Fletcher Stack from the Sunstone Symposium. --- Exiles in Zion // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
