Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Dieter Maurer
Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-1-21 14:55 +0100:
 ...
  TARGET=Python 2.6.X
  ACCEPTABLE=Python 2.5
  Python 2.4.X would be basically not acceptable but could be used
  at your own risk using the --with-python option.
 ...
- - removing  ZClasses completely

But hopefully provided by a separate package, instead.



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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Dieter Maurer
Chris Withers wrote at 2009-1-22 09:38 +:
 ...
One thing that myself and Shane talked briefly about on this list was 
re-implementing the AST manipulation as dissallow-by-default filter 
rather than a straight manipulation. That way, unexpected stuff should 
be allowed by default.

The terms do not seem to match: disallow-by-default would mean
that unexpected stuff would be disallowed by default.



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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Dieter Maurer
Hanno Schlichting wrote at 2009-1-23 19:36 +0100:
Wichert Akkerman wrote:
 Previously Tres Seaver wrote:
 Andreas Jung wrote:
 - removing  ZClasses completely

This is done now.

Wow. This was quick!
Much quicker than fixing bugs reported in the collector :-(



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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Andreas Jung
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 25.01.2009 12:44 Uhr, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 Hanno Schlichting wrote at 2009-1-23 19:36 +0100:
 Wichert Akkerman wrote:
 Previously Tres Seaver wrote:
 Andreas Jung wrote:
 - removing  ZClasses completely
 This is done now.

 Wow. This was quick!
 Much quicker than fixing bugs reported in the collector :-(


Please stop bitching and fix your favorite bugs in the collector.
You have svn commit right *wink*

Andreas
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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Dieter Maurer
Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-1-25 10:21 +0100:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 25.01.2009 9:27 Uhr, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-1-21 14:55 +0100:
 ...
  TARGET=Python 2.6.X
  ACCEPTABLE=Python 2.5
  Python 2.4.X would be basically not acceptable but could be used
  at your own risk using the --with-python option.
 ...
 - - removing  ZClasses completely
 
 But hopefully provided by a separate package, instead.

Unless someone volunteers for doing a separate package: no.

I plan to provide such a package as dm.ZClasses or (maybe) Zope2.ZClasses
-- of course with some complaints against the Zope release management
in the documentation:

  *  cutting away useful features without any serious need

  *  lacking commitment wrt backward compatibility

  *  enforcing philosophical opinions (applications should be
 created programmatically not via configuration only (such
 as with ZClasses))



-- 
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[Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 8 OK

2009-01-25 Thread Zope Tests Summarizer
Summary of messages to the zope-tests list.
Period Sat Jan 24 12:00:00 2009 UTC to Sun Jan 25 12:00:00 2009 UTC.
There were 8 messages: 8 from Zope Tests.


Tests passed OK
---

Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.3.7 : Linux
From: Zope Tests
Date: Sat Jan 24 20:54:41 EST 2009
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2009-January/010927.html

Subject: OK : Zope-2.9 Python-2.4.5 : Linux
From: Zope Tests
Date: Sat Jan 24 20:56:13 EST 2009
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2009-January/010928.html

Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.5 : Linux
From: Zope Tests
Date: Sat Jan 24 20:57:43 EST 2009
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2009-January/010929.html

Subject: OK : Zope-2.11 Python-2.4.5 : Linux
From: Zope Tests
Date: Sat Jan 24 20:59:14 EST 2009
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2009-January/010930.html

Subject: OK : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.5 : Linux
From: Zope Tests
Date: Sat Jan 24 21:00:45 EST 2009
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2009-January/010931.html

Subject: OK : Zope-trunk Python-2.5.2 : Linux
From: Zope Tests
Date: Sat Jan 24 21:02:15 EST 2009
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2009-January/010932.html

Subject: OK : Zope[2.buildout]-trunk Python-2.4.5 : Linux
From: Zope Tests
Date: Sat Jan 24 21:03:45 EST 2009
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2009-January/010933.html

Subject: OK : Zope[2.buildout]-trunk Python-2.5.2 : Linux
From: Zope Tests
Date: Sat Jan 24 21:05:17 EST 2009
URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2009-January/010934.html

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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Dieter Maurer
Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-1-25 12:53 +0100:
 ...
 - removing  ZClasses completely
 This is done now.

 Wow. This was quick!
 Much quicker than fixing bugs reported in the collector :-(


Please stop bitching and fix your favorite bugs in the collector.
You have svn commit right *wink*

I will instead try to preserse useful functionality dropped without need from
the Zope core *wink*.



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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Andreas Jung
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 25.01.2009 12:56 Uhr, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-1-25 10:21 +0100:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 25.01.2009 9:27 Uhr, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-1-21 14:55 +0100:
 ...
  TARGET=Python 2.6.X
  ACCEPTABLE=Python 2.5
  Python 2.4.X would be basically not acceptable but could be used
  at your own risk using the --with-python option.
 ...
 - - removing  ZClasses completely
 But hopefully provided by a separate package, instead.
 Unless someone volunteers for doing a separate package: no.
 
 I plan to provide such a package as dm.ZClasses or (maybe) Zope2.ZClasses

Thanks for stepping up.

 -- of course with some complaints against the Zope release management
 in the documentation:
 
   *  cutting away useful features without any serious need
 
   *  lacking commitment wrt backward compatibility
 

We had this discussion about the future of ZClasses already several
time. Point taken but I have little interest discussing the same topic
over and over again. ZClasses have been deprecated in Zope 2.10 and now
they are gone. Users of ZClasses have enough options and a lot of time
for modernizing their apps. We don't want and need to support any cruft
until doomsday.

Andreas


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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Martijn Pieters
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:56, Dieter Maurer die...@handshake.de wrote:
 I plan to provide such a package as dm.ZClasses or (maybe) Zope2.ZClasses
 -- of course with some complaints against the Zope release management
 in the documentation:

  *  cutting away useful features without any serious need

  *  lacking commitment wrt backward compatibility

  *  enforcing philosophical opinions (applications should be
 created programmatically not via configuration only (such
 as with ZClasses))

Oh, please come off it. You have checkin rights and could have stepped
up to maintain the code. This is not about enforcing philosophical
choices, this is about being pragmatic. If the feature was truely
useful, more developers would be maintaining and fixing it. Obviously
the complexity of keeping it working is outweighing it's usefulness.

-- 
Martijn Pieters
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: relstorage/trunk/ Corporation - Foundation

2009-01-25 Thread Benji York
On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Shane Hathaway sh...@hathawaymix.org wrote:
 Log message for revision 94997:
  Corporation - Foundation

AFAIK, the IP hasn't been transfered yet.  I'm not sure what the
implications of using Foundation are at this point.

 Changed:
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/__init__.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/adapters/common.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/adapters/mysql.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/adapters/oracle.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/adapters/postgresql.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/config.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/relstorage.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/tests/alltests.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/tests/reltestbase.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/tests/speedtest.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/tests/testmysql.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/tests/testoracle.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/tests/testpostgresql.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/relstorage/zodbconvert.py
  U   relstorage/trunk/setup.py

 -=-
 Modified: relstorage/trunk/relstorage/__init__.py
 ===
 --- relstorage/trunk/relstorage/__init__.py 2009-01-25 02:36:33 UTC (rev 
 94996)
 +++ relstorage/trunk/relstorage/__init__.py 2009-01-25 02:43:49 UTC (rev 
 94997)
 @@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
  
 ##
  #
 -# Copyright (c) 2008 Zope Corporation and Contributors.
 +# Copyright (c) 2008 Zope Foundation and Contributors.
  # All Rights Reserved.
  #
  # This software is subject to the provisions of the Zope Public License,
-- 
Benji York
Senior Software Engineer
Zope Corporation
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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Hanno Schlichting
Andreas Jung wrote:
 On 21.01.2009 14:55 Uhr, Andreas Jung wrote:
 
 - complete eggification (apparently pretty much done)

I tried to make an old-style full-tarball release yesterday and ran into
a problem. The setup.py in the created tarball references the 'src'
folder in some steps, which isn't available in the full-tarball release
(it's all in old lib/python). As setup.py is also used for the cmmi
dance, you couldn't build or install from the generated tarball.

At least the idea so far has been to replace the Zope2 SVN trunk in its
current form with the Zope2-egg structure at which point the above needs
to work.

 We have to define what eggification means exactly. By now the
 Zope2.buildout seems to work fine with Python 2.4-2.6. I think
 we want to see Zope2 being easy_install-able. This means basically:
 
  - a source code release of Zope 2 can be done using (python2.X setup.py
 sdist (upload)
  - a user can easy_install Zope 2 from PyPI
 
 Hurdle:
 
  - setup.py defines all dependencies without version information
(which is kept in the versions-zope2|3.cfg files. In order
to make the version information available information I added
the setup2.py file to the Zope2.buildout/trunk codebase
(for experimenting). However this approach does not work with
the dev packages like zope.app.locales. Also working with
 zc.sourcerelease won't solve this issue. Any idea how to deal
with that?

We just need new releases for all those packages. I'm willing to do
those, but need PyPi access to all of them [1]. I asked Stephan Richter
in a private mail for that already. If someone else can provide me with
access, that would be awesome :)

As a second step I think we should at least provide the versions.cfg
file in a public well defined location. Zope3 has this as
http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/versions.cfg and Plone has
http://dist.plone.org/release/3.2/versions.cfg

If we can make it part of the release process to make the versions.cfg
file available at maybe:

http://download.zope.org/zope2/2.12.0a1/versions.cfg

that would be a good first step. I see value in a simple minimal index
like Zope3 has in http://download.zope.org/zope3.4/minimal-3.4.0c7/ but
that needs someone to figure out the exact process to maintain it.

Hanno

[1] zope.copypastemove, zope.dublincore, zope.formlib, zope.sendmail,
zope.viewlet, zope.app.http, zope.app.locales

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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Laurence Rowe
Andreas Jung wrote:
 - complete eggification (apparently pretty much done)
 
 We have to define what eggification means exactly. By now the
 Zope2.buildout seems to work fine with Python 2.4-2.6. I think
 we want to see Zope2 being easy_install-able. This means basically:
 
  - a source code release of Zope 2 can be done using (python2.X setup.py
 sdist (upload)
  - a user can easy_install Zope 2 from PyPI
 
 Hurdle:
 
  - setup.py defines all dependencies without version information
(which is kept in the versions-zope2|3.cfg files. In order
to make the version information available information I added
the setup2.py file to the Zope2.buildout/trunk codebase
(for experimenting). However this approach does not work with
the dev packages like zope.app.locales. Also working with
 zc.sourcerelease won't solve this issue. Any idea how to deal
with that?

It's possible to have egg dependencies on development versions of other 
eggs so long as there is an svn egg link on the pypi page.

For example in zope.sqlalchemy's pypi page I include a link like to:

svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/zope.sqlalchemy/trunk#egg=zope.sqlalchemy-dev

And in the past I have had the trunk setup.py instal_requires include:

  'SQLAlchemy=0.5.0beta3dev-r4954', or  'SQLAlchemy=0.4.7dev',


Laurence

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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Laurence Rowe wrote:
 It's possible to have egg dependencies on development versions of other 
 eggs so long as there is an svn egg link on the pypi page.
 
 For example in zope.sqlalchemy's pypi page I include a link like to:
 
 svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/zope.sqlalchemy/trunk#egg=zope.sqlalchemy-dev
 
 And in the past I have had the trunk setup.py instal_requires include:
 
   'SQLAlchemy=0.5.0beta3dev-r4954', or  'SQLAlchemy=0.4.7dev',

Which also shows that using a setup.cfg to put revision numbers in dev
versions is extremely useful :)

Wichert.

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http://www.wiggy.net/   It is hard to make things simple.
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: relstorage/trunk/ Corporation - Foundation

2009-01-25 Thread Tres Seaver
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Benji York wrote:
 On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Shane Hathaway sh...@hathawaymix.org wrote:
 Log message for revision 94997:
  Corporation - Foundation
 
 AFAIK, the IP hasn't been transfered yet.  I'm not sure what the
 implications of using Foundation are at this point.

The ZF board voted this past week to execute the agreement:  I think all
that is left is the execution (aka wet signature) bit.


Tres.
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===
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Palladion Software   Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com
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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Dieter Maurer
Martijn Pieters wrote at 2009-1-25 13:29 +0100:
On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:56, Dieter Maurer die...@handshake.de wrote:
 I plan to provide such a package as dm.ZClasses or (maybe) Zope2.ZClasses
 -- of course with some complaints against the Zope release management
 in the documentation:

  *  cutting away useful features without any serious need

  *  lacking commitment wrt backward compatibility

  *  enforcing philosophical opinions (applications should be
 created programmatically not via configuration only (such
 as with ZClasses))

Oh, please come off it. You have checkin rights and could have stepped
up to maintain the code.

The last necessity to do something with ZClasses was for Zope 2.8.
Then, Jim did the work.

There was no need now to ditch ZClasses.

For me, it looks like hostility towards building applications via
menues rather than programming.

This is not about enforcing philosophical
choices, this is about being pragmatic. If the feature was truely
useful, more developers would be maintaining and fixing it. Obviously
the complexity of keeping it working is outweighing it's usefulness.

I do not see something obvious here.

I do not know how much work Jim has invested for Zope 2.8 but
I am almost sure that other efforts since then have at most
been in the order of hours (probably nothing at all).


You will now get an externally maintained ZClasses implementation
and I am quite confident that the necessary effort will be small 
(though larger of course then when it remained part of Zope).
If you like I report back or even better I document it.



-- 
Dieter
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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Andreas Jung
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 25.01.2009 20:09 Uhr, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 Martijn Pieters wrote at 2009-1-25 13:29 +0100:
 On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 12:56, Dieter Maurer die...@handshake.de wrote:
 I plan to provide such a package as dm.ZClasses or (maybe) 
 Zope2.ZClasses
 -- of course with some complaints against the Zope release management
 in the documentation:

  *  cutting away useful features without any serious need

  *  lacking commitment wrt backward compatibility

  *  enforcing philosophical opinions (applications should be
 created programmatically not via configuration only (such
 as with ZClasses))
 Oh, please come off it. You have checkin rights and could have stepped
 up to maintain the code.
 
 The last necessity to do something with ZClasses was for Zope 2.8.
 Then, Jim did the work.
 
 There was no need now to ditch ZClasses.
 
 For me, it looks like hostility towards building applications via
 menues rather than programming.


Please stop the discussion. The majority of Zope developers considers
the ZClasses programming model as not up2date and not flexible enough
when it comes to extensibility and scalability. That's why we don't want
ZClasses being part of Zope 2 anymore. This has been our message for
years. ZClasses are deprecated since Zope 2.10 and now it's time to say
goodbye.

 
 This is not about enforcing philosophical
 choices, this is about being pragmatic. If the feature was truely
 useful, more developers would be maintaining and fixing it. Obviously
 the complexity of keeping it working is outweighing it's usefulness.
 
 I do not see something obvious here.
 
 I do not know how much work Jim has invested for Zope 2.8 but
 I am almost sure that other efforts since then have at most
 been in the order of hours (probably nothing at all).
 
 
 You will now get an externally maintained ZClasses implementation
 and I am quite confident that the necessary effort will be small 
 (though larger of course then when it remained part of Zope).
 If you like I report back or even better I document it.

All ZClasses user will appreciate your work as we do stepping in but you
should accept that your opinion on ZClasses does not reflect the
majority of the other Zope developers.

Andreas
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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Dieter Maurer
Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-1-25 20:19 +0100:
 ...
Please stop the discussion. The majority of Zope developers considers
the ZClasses programming model as not up2date and not flexible enough
when it comes to extensibility and scalability.
That's why we don't want
ZClasses being part of Zope 2 anymore.

We see clearly: philosophical opinions -- not complexity of keeping
it working



-- 
Dieter
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Re: [Zope-dev] [Checkins] SVN: relstorage/trunk/ Corporation - Foundation

2009-01-25 Thread Shane Hathaway
Benji York wrote:
 On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Shane Hathaway sh...@hathawaymix.org wrote:
 Log message for revision 94997:
  Corporation - Foundation
 
 AFAIK, the IP hasn't been transfered yet.  I'm not sure what the
 implications of using Foundation are at this point.

Even so, I have no doubt that assigning the copyright to the foundation
is better than assigning to a corporation.

Shane

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[Zope-dev] CSRF/XSS: zope.formlib

2009-01-25 Thread Sidnei da Silva
Hello all,

I've been looking at the way CSRF protection is done in Plone
(plone.protect, using a @protect decorator), and also at the XSS
protection added to Zope (@postonly decorator) and was wondering if
something more generic could possibly be done for zope.formlib-based
forms, instead of requiring the use of a decorator.

A quick look though the code, makes seem like an Action could be added
to the Actions object such that the validator would do one (or both)
of those checks, and something similar to the render_submit_button()
which is registered as a @namedtemplate.implementation() would then be
used to render the hidden form field holding the CSRF token for that
specific action.

Does that sound like a reasonable implementation, or is it abusing the
framework?

-- 
Sidnei da Silva
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Re: [Zope-dev] Plans for Zope 2.12

2009-01-25 Thread Andreas Jung
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Hash: SHA1

On 25.01.2009 20:34 Uhr, Dieter Maurer wrote:
 Andreas Jung wrote at 2009-1-25 20:19 +0100:
 ...
 Please stop the discussion. The majority of Zope developers considers
 the ZClasses programming model as not up2date and not flexible enough
 when it comes to extensibility and scalability.
 That's why we don't want
 ZClasses being part of Zope 2 anymore.
 
 We see clearly: philosophical opinions -- not complexity of keeping
 it working


The ZClasses discussion is over - point.

Andreas
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