Marco Feichtinger writes:
> How can I pxe boot other machines, without my file server acting as dhcp se=
> rver for the whole network?
It might be possible, but not worth the effort. And with the blackbox
DHCP server in that router, it's likely impossible.
If your file server is up all the
This is great news, but just before I start throwing money your
way, it would be nice to know what you're planning to do with it.
Other than the announcements about the creation of the foundation
itself, and now this, it as been pretty much radio silence about
what you're planning to get up to.
Yaroslav K writes:
> Do we know what=E2=80=99s up with 9p.io, the current sources host?
Pings (v4 and 6) to nearby addresses work, so it looks like the
host itself is down.
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Thaddeus Woskowiak writes:
> Has anyone written any code to deal with SCPI, Standard Commands for
> Programmable Instruments, on plan 9?
I did a couple of years ago, for the same reason: programmable PSUs and
to suck data down from an ocsilloscope. It never worked well, and I
have since lost the
hiro writes:
> > should each system role get his own user?
> > Like one user for file servers, one for auth, one for venti, and one for =
> cpu
> > servers.
My was has always been to have a file system user and an auth server
user that are used ONLY for those roles.
As for CPU servers, it really
Waaay back in Nov 2020 Skip sent a note to the list about some
preliminary work on a RISC-V port. Now that my VisionFive-2 dev
board has arrived I'm itching to try to get Plan9 running on it.
Has any progress been made since that last update?
Duckduckgo isn't happy with the above site's tls cert. Did it
expire? Or is something more nefarious happening ...
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ibrahim via 9fans writes:
> While on wait I'm intending to port the freebsd bluetooth stack (netgraph) =
> to plan9. I would be surprised if no one started such a project till now so=
> if someone shares this goal I would be interested in a cooperative work.=20
Huh. I'd never thought about
Alex Musolino writes:
> Seems so: https://github.com/iru-/9p4
Oh now that's slick! < 200 lines of code.
Thanks for the pointer.
--lyndon
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A short update on the RS-485 network project ...
I ordered up an assortment of RS-485 "hats" and USB serial ports
to play with. I also have an Axxon LF1006KB PCIe card that will
go into the CPU server as the "gateway" for the 485 network. It
should already work with the uartpci driver, but I'll
Just curious if anyone has attempted a 9P implementation in Forth?
This could be fun to play around with on things like Atmel AVRs.
I've had it to -->here<-- with the Arduino programming environment,
so *anything* different would be a joy :-)
--lyndon
--
I booted 9legacy from a usb image and all is well. But ... how
am I supposed to get this installed on the machine's hard drive?
I can't find any sign of the installer scripts.
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When you do the initial install, interrupt the boot sequence and type
console=0 as the documentation describes. Install the system as usual,
then reboot and log in again using the consoole=0 dance. Once you're
logged in you can mount the 9fat partition (9fs 9fat) and then edit
/n/9fat/plan9.ini
A few thoughts after chewing on this for a day ...
I think the major architecture components break down like this:
1) a simple protocol wrapper to enable streaming of 9p over arbitrary
transports (e.g. USB, i2c, spi, rs485).
2) an addressing scheme that plugs into dial() and ndb.
3)
> The 9front /sys/src/9/zynq port is aiju board's kernel.
This reminds me to ask ... what did people get up to using their
aiju boards for? Sadly, mine has been sitting on the shelf collecting
dust for much too long. I did some early fiddling about, mostly
to learn the fpga toolchain, but then
da...@boddie.org.uk writes:
> I am using 5a/tc/tl to build bare metal code for a STM32F405 MCU thanks
> to some hints from Charles Forsyth.
Could you post some notes on how you're doing that? This is something
I'd like to take for a spin.
--lyndon
--
Bakul Shah writes:
> - make it very easy to create hardware gadgets by
> providing a firmware/hardware building block that
> talks 9p on the host interface side & interfaces
> with device specific hardware.
Amen! I've been thinking about something like this for years.
My specific use case
David du Colombier writes:
> If it works with 9front, the issue is definitely on our side.
> Our Virtio drivers are very close to 9front's, so I suspect
> the issue may be somewhere else.
If you think that's the case then I need to build out enough local
infrastructure to be able to build
David du Colombier writes:
> I think the issue is elsewhere, since I've tried on QEMU with
> both Virtio 1.0 and Virtio legacy and it worked as expected
> (386 and amd64 kernels).
That could very well be. vmm(4) is still relatively young, so the
bug could very well be there. I think at this
It gets a bit further -- now it actually panics :-P
: lyndon@orthanc:/u/vm; vmctl start -c clare
Connected to /dev/ttyp2 (speed 115200)
Boot failed: not a bootable disk
PBSR... F5CD 00B2
Plan 9 from Bell Labsi8042: kbdinit failed
no vga; serial console only
disk loader
cpu0:
David du Colombier writes:
> I've just imported Virtio 1.0 support to 9legacy.
> Lyndon, please try the latest CD image and let me know if it works for you.
Hah! You beat me to it ;-) ISO downloading now, stay tuned ...
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Are any of you running 9legacy under the vmm hypervisor on OpenBSD?
The kernel boots, but complains that it cannot find any fixed disks
and panics.
I was able to boot 9front, so it looks like 9legacy's virtio
drivers might be lagging a bit?
--lyndon
--
Dworkin Muller writes:
> I have physical issues with trying to perform fine-grained mouse
> operations (uncontrollable small hand tremors).
[ ... ]
> So, my question is, are there any viable alternatives for use with
Joining the conversation late ... sorry. Have you thought about
mounting a
Steve Simon writes:
> until last year I still had a dual Atom machine which worked nicely but
> is a propper desktop machine even though its a mini ITX.
I have at least a half dozen mini-ITX boards lying around that I
can fall back on. The problem is I seem to have lost most of the
cases and/or
kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp writes:
> For the usb issue, amd64(9legacy) does not support usb mouse/keyboard,
> only ps2 keyboard/mouse. Is there any such machine having PS/2
> interface around?
Pretty much everything supports BIOS mapping from USB->PS/2. This is
one of the many reasons I was
hiro writes:
> sure you want just one sata disk for a fileserver? or is the worm all on bl=
> uray?
One disk is fine for now. The blu-ray is for backing up the arenas,
and yes, I'll deal with the xhci driver issues myself. (I can use
slower USB ports until I get that part running.)
--lyndon
Time to build out some proper infrastructure at home, and the
first order of business is the file+auth server. I don't need
screaming fast performance, just something basic, and I have been
looking at some of the current crop of small form factor desktops,
along the lines of the Intel NUC. (But
tlaronde pointed me at the APL that shipped in the contrib
directory in 4.3BSD. In hindsight I suspect that was the
version I spun up at Athabasca U way back when (1989ish).
I was quite surprised to see that a substantial chunk of it
managed to compile 'out of the box' on OpenBSD 6.8 (albeit
o...@eigenstate.org writes:
> git clone --single-branch \
> --branch Research-V4-Snapshot-Development \
I must be blind. I completely glossed over 'single-branch'.
But I might have to go back to the SCCS archive on the CDs,
anyway, since Spinellis' repo doesn't seem to
Steffen Nurpmeso writes:
> It can even be as small as
>
> #?0|kent:unix-hist$ du -sh .
> 179M.
>
> when not including all the new FreeBSD things (for which i at
> least track the FreeBSD git repository directly):
Okay, so what's the magic incantation to clone just that subset
of
tlaro...@polynum.com writes:
> There are various versions of an APL interpreter and, amongst these,
> a version by Ken Thompson, Ross Harvey, Douglas Lanam.
>
> Is that this one you are looking for?
That sounds like the one. It's entirely possible the version I
started with came from one of the
Long ago and far away I built/ran Thompson's APL (from the V7 source
tape IIRC) on one of the VAXen. This was very much pre-ANSI C code,
but the Ultrix 1.1 compiler handled it fine.
About 15 years ago I dusted off the source and started converting
it to ANSI C, but I got distracted and have
Charles Forsyth writes:
> it's also on bitbucket not github mainly for historical reasons but I also
> can never decide which I dislike more.
:-)
The nice thing about having it in hg is that mercurial is part of
9front, so there's no need to muck about getting git installed.
--lyndon
[ Originally send to 9front-bugs, but this is applicable
across the board ... ]
This patch makes 'news -an' do the right thing.
/n/dump/2021/0122/sys/src/cmd/news.c:44,65 - news.c:44,72
void
main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
- int i;
+ int i, aflag = 0, nflag = 0;
+ int
hiro writes:
> only found out by accident,
Not sure what's going on. I sent a couple of messages to
9front and 9front-bugs yesterday that vanished into a black
hole ...
--lyndon
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I cleaned up my RFC/I-D viewer and mirroring tools and pushed them
up to /n/9pio/contrib/lyndon/rfc.tar. They're a bit more functional
than the existing /lib/rfc/grabrfc, and interface nicely with the
plumber.
Note that I have an /rc/bin/aux directory that I 'bind -a' to
/bin/aux in my global
I've always just used aan(8) + cfs(4) for this sort of situation.
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Don't forget 2ed ran on the ipaq (aka bitsy).
How much of the UI support survived the 2ed -> 3ed rewrites I don't
know. But reading through the 2ed source might be enlightening.
--lyndon
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The following is all hypothetical. I'm curious about how people
think auth(2)/factotum(4) could be adapted to support the use
case ...
factotum was intended to handle the authentication dance on behalf
of network apps. But in the case of things like IMAP, it really
just stores the client's
This gets github.com/9fans/plan9port building under FreeBSD 12.1
on arm64. Dunno if it breaks the other arm64 platforms ...
diff --git a/dist/buildmk b/dist/buildmk
index 07b223ac..65137556 100755
--- a/dist/buildmk
+++ b/dist/buildmk
@@ -7,6 +7,7 @@ OBJTYPE=`(uname -m -p 2>/dev/null || uname
I have a 2K display that Plan9 forces to 1920x1080 resolution.
Poking around 9/bcm/screen.c indicates that setting vgasize=WxHxD
should force the size, but adding a suitable entry in cmdline.txt
just gives me a blank display.
Before I dig deeper, is this expected to work? If it is I'll start
While running some silly benchmarks I discovered dc's '^' operator
limits exponents to ''. This seems arbitrary, perhaps a leftover
safety measure to keep things from eating all the CPU for days on
end on a slow machine? I upped the limit to 9 and the test
expression ran fine on a Pi4:
BSDCan is June 3-6 2020. There's a Postgres conference the week
before at the same venue, so I'll be in Ottawa from May 25 to June
12 (taking some vacation time after BSDCan). If anyone wants to
do an informal get-together, let's see what we can work out.
--lyndon
For BSDCan I say "unofficial" specifically because an "official"
BOF as part of BSDCan would require conference registration. An
"unofficial" BOF would be off-site (we can just meet at the usual
pub) the day after the conference ends.
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Lyndon Nerenberg writes:
> Maybe an unofficial get together around BSDCan in Montreal next spring?
Doh! BSDCan is in Ottawa, not Montreal. The suggestion still stands.
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Chris McGee writes:
> I am unlikely to be able to come unless it is north eastern US or Canada,
> maybe Toronto or Montreal. I know of at least one other Plan 9 tinkerer in
> the area.
Maybe an unofficial get together around BSDCan in Montreal next spring?
The Saturday after the conference ends?
> In that vein, here's a poll: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/VJNQYGC
The survey seems more cute than useful. E.g. there's a *big*
difference between "travel a couple of hours" and "anywhere." And
even though it's close by, I wouldn't consider travel to the US (a
couple of hours) due to the
Matthew Veety writes:
> Building anything on a raspberry pi is a bit of a chore. I highly=20
> recommend running go on your cpu server and/or local to your filesystem.=20
> The generated binaries seem to work fine.
Go does wonderfully when it comes to generating binaries for
non-native
Richard Miller writes:
> Before replacing my expiring inkjet printer I thought I'd ask
> the list: does anyone still use lp(1) nowadays, and are there
> printers currently on the market which work well with Plan 9?
As others have mentioned, life is far too short for CUPS.
For Plan9 printing I
Does anyone have a getcallerpc-arm64 that works with FreeBSD on
a Pi 3?
Charles Forsyth writes:
> At a glance it looked as though the MMUs for the on-chip stuff were more
> suitable for Unix Seventh Edition (no later) than "full" Plan 9.
Wouldn't Inferno be a better fit for these sort of devices?
In my experience these things are used primarily as I/O devices,
with
michaelian ennis writes:
> I found a second edition set on Abe books last year. They were not
> inexpensive.
Sadly, Abebooks became utterly useless several years ago, when it was
taken over by bots scraping each other listings and adding 5%.
Just curious if anyone has ported (or written) a tn3270 client?
--lyndon
It's time for a new laptop, one that will dual boot OpenBSD and
9front. Looking through the FQA, the hardware listed there is a
wee bit on the dated side. I'm curious to here peoples experiences
running on more current gear.
My requirements aren't too esoteric. I need something that will
take
fussy# hg diff sys/lib/sysconfig/proto/distproto
diff -r 3839b70da66a sys/lib/sysconfig/proto/distproto
--- a/sys/lib/sysconfig/proto/distproto Mon Apr 22 03:05:51 2019 +0200
+++ b/sys/lib/sysconfig/proto/distproto Mon Apr 22 18:11:54 2019 -0700
@@ -32,6 +32,7 @@
ndb d775
> I object to quadrupling the timeout. I am old and my eyesight sucks and
> one second is perfectly sane.
Shut the refrigerator door! You're running up long distance charges!!!
cinap_len...@felloff.net writes:
> err... thats precisely how it works. the ONLY difference is that the
> timeout is hardcoded to ONE second see: /sys/src/boot/pc/sub.c:304
Fine, but a ONE second timeout is insane. And it's NOT at all
clearly documented in the 9boot(8) manpage.
How about a FOUR
> err... thats precisely how it works. the ONLY difference is that the
> timeout is hardcoded to ONE second see: /sys/src/boot/pc/sub.c:304
ONE second, eh? I need to become much younger again ;-)
cinap_len...@felloff.net writes:
> the bootloader has a console where you can change any
> plan9.ini parameter, including bootfile=. read 9boot(8).
I described this badly. Let me try again.
Given a working fileserver config, I want something that does
'user=foo; nobootpromt=bar', but with a
Something I miss in 9front is the 'boot menu' functionality 9labs
had in plan9.ini. Being able to fall back to an alternative config
was a godsend when debugging fileserver setups. I'm curious why
that was removed from the 9front bootstrap code.
--lyndon
The 9front installer doesn't create the /lib/ndb/dhcp directory.
This makes ip/dhcpd silently fail when it tries to hand out dynamic
addresses.
Ignore me. I had stupid firewall rules in place that were
breaking things :-P
Something else I've noticed is that 9front-dick-tracy refuses to ssh to
FreeBSD 11 or MacOS 10.14 hosts when trying password authentication.
In both cases, 'ssh -d' reports the connection hangs up at 'ssh:
global request: hostkeys-000.openssh.com'.
I don't know if this worked before. This is my
cinap_len...@felloff.net writes:
> bit 7 is "illegal register access". try to print the pc from the ureg
> passed to the first argument in lapicerror() in /sys/src/9/pc/apic.c.
A quick printf hack says ureg->pc = 0x801103b3 mostly
(>99.9%), but a few other oddballs are:
cpu0 0x2400c8
cinap_len...@felloff.net writes:
> bit 7 is "illegal register access". try to print the pc from the ureg
> passed to the first argument in lapicerror() in /sys/src/9/pc/apic.c.
Okay. Likely not 'til the weekend though ...
I have a stack of Supermicro SYS-5018A-FTN4 servers upon which I'm trying to
spin up 9front.
For the most part they work, but one annoyance is the *endless* stream of
cpu0: lapicerror: 0x0080
messages the kernel prints out. Sometimes these originate from cpu1 as well.
The hardware has
clue...@tonymendoza.us writes:
> or and setup a mirror, but finding servers spec'd to run plan9 in
> the US seems impossible.
I have run 9front on VPSes at ARP Networks. These days 9front
should just work out of the box. ARP's support staff have been
very helpful tuning the underlying
Ethan Gardener writes:
> I got excited for a moment, but then I saw, "This server contains
> protocols that support Linux metadata, including permissions." It's
> going to be 9p2000.L or yet another incompatible fork of the protocol.
Is Upspin an alternative? (Not helpful if you're required to
Mayuresh Kathe writes:
> just so that i know, are you targeting plan9 users for your version
> of 'mh'? if yes, will they be interested in migrating away from the
> way they are working currently, i.e. with acme and upas?
Yes, and no.
Yes, in that I intend this MH to fully integrate with the
Mayuresh Kathe writes:
> i was looking for a non-captive user-interface email client like "mh" by
> rand corporation. i guess i'll either have to learn to use acme with
> upas or write my own "mh" replacement for plan 9.
A year-or-so ago I started working on my own version of MH, forked
from a
Brian L. Stuart writes:
> Don't laugh. I actually have a VT-220 on my file server.
You do a lot of manual code compiling and linking from the serial
console of your file server, do you? Then you deserve all the pain
that can possibly be inflicted upon you ;-)
--lyndon
Digby R.S. Tarvin writes:
> Oh yes, I read Eldon Halls book on that quite a few years ago. Meetings
> held to discuss competing potential uses for a word of memory that had
> become free.
> That one would be a challenging Plan9 port..
And yet Plan9 was not there to save the day. Such a pity.
Another case to ponder ... We're handling the incoming I/Q data
stream, but need to fan that out to many downstream consumers. If
we already read the data into a page, then flip it to the first
consumer, is there a benefit to adding a reference counter to that
read-only page and leaving the
hiro writes:
> don't you need sending ability, too for AIS?
No, a receive-only setup is very useful on a small boat. Where I
would like to go with this is to take the decoded AIS data as input
for "ARPA" style collision plots. I'm interested in the big boats
sailing through the straight. They
Skip Tavakkolian writes:
> I assumed you were using an RTL2832U (rtlsdr library).
I'm pretty sure they all do, under the hood.
> I was able to use dump1090 (same author as redis) to get ADSB data reliably
> on RPi/Linux a while back.
I have a pair of Flightbox ADS-B receivers I am using as references.
While mostly reliable, they can and do stutter along with the rest
of the alternatives on occasion.
--lyndon
hiro writes:
> But given the alternatives available back then, even the armv5 in the
> kirkwood, which was cheaper even before the rpi became popular, did
> the same job more stably, which is why i would never actually
> recommend the pi. And there are even more alternatives now.
I get that. But
Digby R.S. Tarvin writes:
> Agreed, but the PDP11/70 was not constrained to 64KB memory either.
> I do recall the MS-DOS small/large/medium etc models that used the
> segmentation in various ways to mitigate the limitations of being a 16 bit
> computer. Similar techniques were possible on the
> I have been able to copy 1 GiB/s to userspace from an nvme device. I should
> think a radio should be no problem.
The problem is when you have multiple decoder blocks implemented
as individual processes (i.e. the GNU radio model). Once you have
everything debugged, you can put it into a single
hiro writes:
> Does this include demodulation on the pi?
Yes. At least to a certain extent. The idea is to get from the
high-birate I/Q data so something more amenable to transmission
over an RS-422 (or -485) serial drop.
One example is for an AIS transceiver on a boat. By putting the
radio
cinap_len...@felloff.net writes:
> why? the *HOST CONTROLLER* schedules the data transfers.
I *DON'T KNOW*. It's just observed behaviour.
> a! we'r talking about some crappy raspi here... probably with all
> caches disabled... never mind.
Hah. An Rpi tips over with 1200 baud USB serial.
cinap_len...@felloff.net writes:
> > The big one is USB. disk/radio->kernel->user-space-usbd->kernel->applicati
> on.
> > Four copies.
>
> that sounds wrong.
>
> usbd is not involved in the data transfer.
You're right, I was wrong about 'usbd'. In the bits of testing
I've done with this, 'usbd'
hiro writes:
> from what i see in linux people have been more than just exploring it,
> they've gone absolutely nuts. it makes everything complex, not just
> the fast path.
And those are the Linux folks doing thier thing. The reading I'm
doing right now is related to the pessimizations page
Bakul Shah writes:
And funny you should mention this!
> Some of this process/memory management can be delegated to
> user code as well.
At $DAYJOB we would really like to have application process control
over the kernel scheduler, as this seems to be the only realistic
way to avoid the (kernel)
hiro writes:
> > Dealing with the security issues isn't trivial
> what security issues?
Passing protocol buffer like objects around user space, that might
affect how the kernel talks to hardware. E.g. IPsec offload into
hardware. You don't want user-space messing with that sort of
context,
hiro writes:
> Huh? What exactly do you mean? Can you describe the scenario and the
> measurements you made?
The big one is USB. disk/radio->kernel->user-space-usbd->kernel->application.
Four copies.
I would like to start playing with software defined radio on Plan
9, but that amount of data
Bakul Shah writes:
> One thing I have mused about is recasting plan9 as a
> microkernel and pushing out a lot of its kernel code into user
> mode code. It is already half way there -- it is basically a
> mux for 9p calls, low level device drivers, VM support & some
> process related code.
Ethan Gardener writes:
> Is there an implementation of APL or a related language for Plan 9?
For pure APL, I don't think so. Long ago I ran the Thompson APL
interpreter on our Ultrix VAX. It was built from source, but I
forget which tape it came from. It would have been one of V7 or
4.2BSD,
Has anyone has managed to boot any of the plan9 variants under FreeBSD's bhyve
hypervisor? Just curious to hear about any success/fail experiences.
--lyndon
What has kept me running fossil+venti is the ease of backing up the file
server. Copying the venti arenas offsite is trivial. And Geoff put
together glue to write sealed arenas to blu-ray as well.
I don't see any simple way to do that with cwfs*. Or hjfs. I am very
curious to know how the
I struggle to understand how version control is not more actively used.
It's not particularly necessary when you have global state with
snapshots provided by a shared WORM fs.
I always thought that argument was a bit suspect. And with the loss of
sources.bell-labs.com, it's apparent why.
Maybe it's not impossible that someone would come up with a way to input
text using a pen over a screen that's even more efficient and convenient
than a keyboard. So far, such technology just doesn't exist.
Dust off the handwriting code that was done for the bitsy.
Forsyth's Plan-9k had some development in mid 2017.
Where did that go? I remember there were some changes there I was quite
interested in, but I lost the reference to the repo source before I had a
chance to do anything with the updates.
RPi's aren't "the" answer,
Exactly. There is no "one" answer. Hardware, peripherals, operating
systems ...
The "linux is everything" crowd is what's leading to the decimation of
technological advancement these days.
Why do people even buy RasPis?
1) Serial port console servers. A Pi2 + StarTech USB 8-port serial is an
inexpensive way to talk to console serial ports on routers, switches,
firewalls, etc.
2) DHCP/TFTP servers used to remote PXE install the big iron in our data
centres.
3)
The interesting thing (for me) was that
the SMART data from the drive gave it an all clear right to the end. But
unlike the SSDs, there was plenty of behavioural warning to remind me to
have the backups up to date and a spare at the ready...
FWIW, of the three-four dozen or so drives I have
I wrote up a crib sheet covering exactly this a couple of months ago, but
it was on a VPS server whose filesystem I thoroughly trashed and is now
pushing up the daisies. I will dig around and see if I stashed a copy on
another machine. If not, I can re-create it easily enough, but not for a
Ouch. I'd hate to think the work I did on that is somehow associated
with 9front.
Let's leave the pettiness behind.
Yes, when sources was doomed, I enthusiastically set it up, although I
think it was bitbucket not github,
And the reason I liked the bitbucket repo is because it's accessible using
hg, for which we have a Plan9 port that does get some TLC thanks to the
9front folks.
Everyone is naming sites to check out, but which one has the right
contents, is being maintained, and will be stable?
Didn't Charles Forsyth have a github or similar such repository with a
copy of the Labs sources? That was even seeing sporadic updates? I'm
sure I browsed it last fall, but
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