On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:39 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
> Fine my dude, you don't have to call us Plan 9, you don't have to want to use
> our code. However I ask that you be mindful in how you talk to new users and
> don't assume that they
have this same level of care for authenticity and "pure"
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:39 PM, Jacob Moody wrote:
> Are you interested in sharing code between your fork and us? If you have no
> intention of making your fork freely available then I don't think
there is really much of a point in having some sort of compatibility layer.
Of course I am
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:32 PM, ori wrote:
> it's a sad system that can't even host its own sources.
If you are running a network for your work there is nothing sad about placing
services on different OS'es. I'm using fossil-scm for about one decade had
never problems it has nearly zero
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:01 PM, hiro wrote:
> did you ever hear of the git
implementation that ori has implemented?
It was placed on the latest 9legacy CD and I'm not needing/using it. I'm using
fossil-scm which replaced cvs for me. Fossil is running on a linux machine in
my network and is
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 3:35 PM, G B wrote:
> Then you are still driving a Benz Patent-Motorwagen built in 1885, which is
> regarded as the first practical modern automobile instead of driving
> something newer like a Mercedes Benz S-Class or Lexus or Acura since these
> newer automobiles
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 1:26 PM, hiro wrote:
> at this point all you're doing is speculation at best, it's verbose
and spammy, and full of untruths. I do not welcome it, please stop
generating noise.
You don't have to read nor to reply to my posts. The amount of noise you create
exceeds mine
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 1:11 PM, hiro wrote:
> i mean contributing to the plan9 team. i don't share in your
discrimination of 9front vs. non9front code.
i bet if all of us can be gainfully employed to work on "real plan9"
we can all stop contributing to 9front. please enlighten me who my
future
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 12:40 PM, sirjofri wrote:
> For me, it's "all plan9 systems", which includes belllabs plan9, 9legacy,
> 9front and so on. That's one of the reasons I name 9front "a plan9 system",
> not "the plan9 system", because there are a few different distributions/forks.
The
> if you notice missing copyright messages: please send a patch. i have
no clue what is required, but if you represent freetype or truetype or
can imagine their legal requirements, please help us out there. it
will be highly appreciated. btw, i hear about this for the first time.
This was an
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 11:57 AM, sirjofri wrote:
> So, you could say, plan 9 from bell labs is the last released version, 4th
> edition. The others (9legacy, 9front, ...) are also plan 9, just not plan 9
> from bell labs.
I personally prefer to call my fork based on plan9. I didn't write or
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 11:39 AM, hiro wrote:
> are you contributing the team? and paying the team?
If you asked me. I don't use 9front or any of your contributions why should I
pay for or contribute to your team ?
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> I would make a big difference between what plan 9 is and what the licenses
> are. Software doesn't care about licenses. People do (and they should!).
>
> So what is plan 9 even? Can we compare it to UNIX™ or unix or posix? Who
> knows...
>
> I guess I could say a lot more about that topic,
> I don't want to depend on anything. Your method is just adding other
> dependencies to ghostscript if you start with ps, and other
> dependencies, if not ghostscript, including C++ code that is inability
> to port on Plan9, if you use pdf.
>
I don't have any dependences remaining you
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 7:33 AM, ron minnich wrote:
> So, Ibrahim, I can not agree with your statement here.
I missed that they combined LPL licensed code instead of combining GPL licensed
one. Thanks for the insides and sorry for the late response.
> For the ghostscript thing, and for the record (noting that, in this
> area, I have put my code-money where my mouth is):
>
> I too want to get rid of Ghostscript. The path adopted is the
> TeX/METAFONT way with the following:
>
> - A PostScript interpreter can be, functionnally, divided in two
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 8:21 AM, Jacob Moody wrote:
> I was making fun of your bragging because you implicated more installs
> equated to higher quality.
I never said that more installs equate higher quality and I never said that the
quality of your code sucks or my code quality is better.
> You have apparently not read our licensing document at
> /lib/legal/NOTICE, which explicitly names the terms of the original Plan
> 9 code, and assigns the MIT license only to changes produced by 9front.
>
> As the labs-provided code has been made available under different
> licenses, we have
The last post had some paste copy issues :
There are many companies who double license code. As the owners of such code
they are free to do this. Users can't relicense code as they please especially
not GPL licensed code.
If you download code that is GPL licensed you can't change the license
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 7:33 AM, ron minnich wrote:
> At no time in all this was there any evidence of incorrect behavior on the
> part of 9front. None. Zip. Zero. Zed. They have always been careful to follow
> the rules.
>
> Further, when people in 9front wrote new code, they released it
libttf was one example and because it made its way into 9legacy i inspected it.
> Are you implying that a majority of users are using Plan9 in a commercial
> setting? That seems a bit absurd.
> For personal use I think these license issues (if they do even exist) are of
> no concern. I think
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 5:09 AM, Jacob Moody wrote:
> When people suggest tossing that all out for a minimally patched 4e, I think
> some people
rightfully feel a bit annoyed. That's a lot of baby that goes out with that
bathwater.
It's Davids decission what he includes as patches for the
Sorry for the double post ...
try to use an older version of 9legacy cause after the integration of 9git in
the latest CD a full system compile will stop. I don't know why such software
which can't be considered a patch to the 4th edition became part of the src
tree instead of putting it in a
On Monday, 13 May 2024, at 4:17 AM, clinton wrote:
> If I were completely naive to actually running plan9 but with many clues
> about other operating systems and hardware, would it be better for me to
> install 9legacy on some mildly obsolescent but still quite serviceable and
> reliable
Out of curiosity regarding your problem at hand Lucio :
You could use 9vx on 9legacy to establish a connection directly. You said you
have an optical drive on your old machine so why don't you just use the 9legacy
CD ROM ? You could also put your drive in an external hd case and access it
I read this website which had one of the old mail adresses :
https://9p.io/wiki/plan9/how_to_contribute/index.html
another one had the link to Geoff's mail at bell-labs as admin.
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Sorry the receiver was
ge...@plan9.bell-labs.com
this was the link provided by the 9p.io page it wasn't webmas...@9p.io
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Delivery options:
I tried webmas...@9p.io
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On Friday, 26 January 2024, at 5:53 PM, David du Colombier wrote:
> I don't think you can have a contrib account on p9f, but you can get
a contrib account at 9p.io.
Do you know who I have to contact for registration ? The mail I sent to
p9f/9p.io couldn't be delivered.
I would like to share runtime images of my plan9 fork and also some code
changes which are not directly useful for plan9 but of interest for people
using plan9 to provide kiosk systems.
I tried to register at p9f and the mail I sent to the admin couldn't be
delivered. I searched for info
First of all, I have my own fork of plan9 which was/is used by a few hundred
users.
My fork is based on 9legacy. And I'm really surprised to regularly see this
discussion about a 'mainline' and the argumentation against 9front. Fact is :
9legacy provides patches and enhancements from 9front. I
Some time ago I wrote an email to p9f for registration of a user account in the
contrib folder but that mail never got delivered. Otherwise I would regularly
place a binare image for x86 for testing the effect of changes I made to the
kernel and userland regarding performance.
Regarding code
Thanks for your reply. This behavior only appeared while using shared memory in
form of segments. I already solved this problem by exchanging qlock, qunlock by
lock (canlock). I also didn't have any problems while using other forms of
memory constellations but while using shared memory segments
I have a function chan_send in which :
chan_send (...) {
qlock()
rwakeup(...)
qunlock()
}
If two such chan_send functions are called without a "task-switch" 9vx crashes.
A work around for this problem is to place a sleep(0) after qunlock to enforce
a task-switch
chan_send(...) {
qlock()
I'm using it on a daily base for development and as a server plattform.
9vx is my terminal, while I use geany editor from linux as an editor. 9p
filesystems can easily be started for data transfer with native 9legacy. The
only feature I miss in 9vx is the lack of some plan9 devices in my case
extended info to my last post in this thread ...
the code fragments have to be placed in 9/boot/xxx.c while xxx.c is the name of
your rootfile server file (paq.c embed.c ...).
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While embedding root-filesystems to create a live-USB using paqfs I found some
interesting behavior :
Starting your user file server with
*argp++ = "userfsrv";
*argp++ = "-S" ;
*argp++ = "ufsrv" ;
*argp++ = "-f" ;
*argp++ = partition ;
for(i=1;
After creating an image file with :
dd
disk/mbr
disk/fdisk
disk/prep
the resulting partition table in the mbr is buggy :
the chs values in the mbr are incompatible with bios.
bios uses the formula (c*H+h)*S+s-1 to calculate the lba values with H=256,
S=63 while c (cylinder), h(head),
The classic implementation of ramfs and many other user fileservers based on it
have a serious bug regarding the 9p protocol :
If you open a file for which you have Read/Execute Permission you are free to
write to that file by sending Twrite requests.
*
*
*rwrite doesn't check if the file was
While testing existing fileservers I found some problems (9legacy) :
1) paqfs :
Using a partion written by "mkpaqfs -u" as a root-fs with paqfs leads to "Bad
Header Code" / "Bad Trailor Code".
Are the current versions of mkpaqfs and paqfs incompatible ?
2) kfs/kfscmd
The manual for kfscmd
Thanks for your answer.
On Saturday, 5 November 2022, at 3:09 PM, ori wrote:
> The Tflush was successful: The Rflush does not indicate that a message was
cancelled, tit indicates that the server is no longer processing the request.
After your answer an read the manual pages a few times again and
Thank you for your clarifications Ori. From the perspective of kernel
filesystems what you wrote made things clear. But one question remains
regarding tflush and user fileservers :
On Saturday, 5 November 2022, at 5:31 AM, ori wrote:
> This situation is impossible -- you can always respond to a
On Saturday, 5 November 2022, at 12:41 AM, ron minnich wrote:
> I'd argue that this may be the most real-world-tested Tflush handler you'll
> see. I have seen Tflush handlers that just return, having done nothing, and
> it's possible that in many cases, that's good enough. But Chris's code is
>
Thanks for your reply Ron.
At least now I know that Tflush and Tversion in the middle of a running session
can really be beasts and this wasn't only my imagination.
I'm writing three filesystems for my applications needs. For the first the
whole tflush, tversion (which is far more dangerous
I have read the manuals and also searched for this question here without
finding an answer (perhaps I missed it) :
1) question about flush :
Lets say there was a pending message with tag=1234 and the client of my server
sent a flush message with a tag=1450. During the travel of the flush the
I'm interested if the results will be MIT or BSD2 licensed cause I want to
share the results with 9front, 9legacy. I contacted you off list.
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On Friday, 18 March 2022, at 9:07 PM, sirjofri wrote:
> If someone does some work on native 9p stuff for android I'd really love
some apk. I'm not an android dev, only did very few things on android
programming-wise.
After testing smb, ftpd and httpd approaches for my current problem I decided
On Friday, 18 March 2022, at 12:19 AM, sirjofri wrote:
> I personally use cifsd (on 9front) and on android totalcommander+smb
extension. It works perfectly fine without any issues across all my
android devices. I share some of the files with other users via tcp80
(behind tlssrv as https).
I'm
On Thursday, 17 March 2022, at 7:53 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> For android, you could try to resurrect previous work by Tim Newsham
based on Charles Forsyth's styx Java implementation:
Thanks for the tip but I'm looking for a solution where I don't have to provide
code for android or ios. I
1. My problem :
I need a way to exchange images, videos and audio with smartphones, tabletts
and usual computers which reside on the same wlan-router.
2. My solutions :
All my solutions have in common that I used qr to generate a qr code which
consists of the ip-adress and port on which to
While using ftpd in 9vx and qemu I got response messages "Permission denied" in
passive mode. This was caused in dialdata by dial(data,"20",0,0). While
correcting this problem I also enhanced the options of ftpd to make it possible
to use alternative ports instead of 20 for the data socket.
On Friday, 4 February 2022, at 4:30 PM, Kent R. Spillner wrote:
> In your experience do students appreciate being told what's best for them? ;)
My platform isn't one for teaching programing its for teaching other subjects
like math, electronics, statics and so on. It's neither my goal nor the
On Wednesday, 2 February 2022, at 7:22 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> This one statement: "Berkeley stopped their distribution of BSD
systems right after they were forced to remove the toolchain." is
completely wrong. I just asked the people who were there, on TUHS, and
they confirmed my memory: DARPA
On Sunday, 30 January 2022, at 10:00 PM, ron minnich wrote:
> That happened about 10 years earlier. The effort I am talking about
with jmk was 2013; the dustup with Theo was circa 2003:
Thanks for sharing those facts.
On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 3:26 PM, David Leimbach wrote:
> I haven’t
On Sunday, 30 January 2022, at 8:55 AM, tlaronde wrote:
> The lacking piece is the end: converting DVI to something else than PS
and extending DVI to include drawing primitives so that there is a
"MetaPost" generating DVI (Metadraw). The other points are already
addressed.
Perhaps xdvi is a good
On Sunday, 30 January 2022, at 2:45 AM, ron minnich wrote:
> The late jmk and I labored over a period of many months in 2013 to get
Plan 9 out under a BSD license. In the end, the copyright holder at
that time required that we distribute it, via UC Berkeley, under the
GPL. No choice. It was that
What I meant was that there is no sense in sharing the code for a special
purpose kiosk app.
For people who are interested search for
gpl infringement tv boxes
You will find many examples of companies who took gpl too lightly and got sued
by FSF. The more users a product has which used GPL
On Sunday, 30 January 2022, at 12:14 AM, sirjofri wrote:
> Maybe I misunderstood something about licensing stuff but, can't you just
distribute the working build product (binaries etc, without source) to
the TV set (or kiosk) and keep the source in a completely separate open
space, under some
On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 11:14 PM, Bakul Shah wrote:
> Note that djvu would compress things very nicely. A full page
300dpi magazine color page that may be 25MB uncompressed will
compress down to 40K-80K or so and be very legible, much more
so compared a similar sized jpeg compressed
On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 10:42 PM, hiro wrote:
> Proof of concepts have value, too :)
It's quite funny what kind of stuff somebody might dig up in 2 decades
and learn something unexpected from it, happens here all the time.
I'm not saying I will personally have a need for the system, but
On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 10:18 PM, Steve Simon wrote:
> Someone doesn’t like GPLs, can we not just accept this and not tell them they
> are wrong.
And if they wish not to release the source for their work, again that is their
decision.
Thanks for your support. I mean it.
I don't get
On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 9:44 PM, hiro wrote:
> if the odd one out of the students learns plan9 you think that's not
worth their while? then why do you use plan9 yourself? i would have
loved to have a teacher in uni that uses plan9.
I don't can't and won't hide the fact that my virtual
On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 7:58 PM, cinap_lenrek wrote:
> on the other hand, calling the ghostscript interpreter as a
external program, i dont think that would force your program
kiosk to be gpl licensed (for example page(1) would be in
the same situation... it calls all kinds of external
On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 7:12 PM, Grant Defayette wrote:
> Honestly I really don't see the issue with an 800mb network image. These
> kiosk machines and network should be able to handle that with no issues and
> it should fit on a disk easily. What constraint are you trying to solve? You
On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 5:56 PM, Bakul Shah wrote:
> Also note that plan9 c compilers are likely no faster than tcc. And there will
> be other challenges.
My kiosk application using plan 9 and its compilers is already working. There
were no problems changing from llvm to plan9
On Saturday, 29 January 2022, at 2:24 PM, hiro wrote:
> i don't buy the argument that source code would be too big. for just
one subject in school i had to download many gigabytes of quartus,
over a decade ago. our source is nowhere near that big.
A kiosk application for educational purposes in
On Friday, 28 January 2022, at 10:59 PM, hiro wrote:
> why should it be closed source?
you're gonna seriously put the effort to remove all the traces of source files?
This kiosk app is meant for students in math, electrotechnics, mechanics ...
its a closed area network where only registered
A well established example for direct rendered frame support is the SHM
extension of X11. There you can create a shared memory in your application and
render directly into this. Afterwards you switch buffers without any transfer
of image data. The image is directly rendered on the screen if the
On Friday, 28 January 2022, at 3:11 PM, Philip Silva wrote:
> I didn't deep-dive yet into the internals of it, but isn't it that when
> combining the images at the end, that transfer of the initial images with
> lots of data basically happens only once? It seems to me devdraw can be quite
>
On Friday, 28 January 2022, at 10:55 AM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
> As far as I can tell this would require practically zero core
changes to the system as it is built entirely on existing
primitives already offered.
What you are suggesting is a higher level filesystem and libdraw
On Friday, 28 January 2022, at 4:23 AM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> None of these prohibit redistribution. Feel free to delete them from
your copy.
I'm intending to distribute a closed source binary release as a kiosk
application which will be used as a graphical terminal for students. So
anything
On Friday, 28 January 2022, at 8:53 AM, vic.thacker wrote:
> Hmm. Have you considered using Inferno?
I gave it a try long ago but I don't want to use it. The reason is the
involvement of limbo. I prefer system code to be written in a language that I'm
using now for decades and where I can
On Friday, 28 January 2022, at 6:22 AM, ori wrote:
> It'd probably make sense to generalize: 'service=foo'
in plan9.ini could run /bin/^$foo^rc.
This is an excerpt for one experimental gdi from profile
...
ramfs
font = /lib/font/bit/lucida/unicode.10.font
upas/fs
fn cd { builtin cd $* && awd }
I developed a kiosk version of plan9 (based on 9front and legacy9) and am about
to develop a single user desktop system. Those can coexist with the existing
plan9 system.
I named the new service targets kiosk and desktop. Both work without rio.
Currently I used initdraw, initmouse,
Thanks for your hint ori,
After searching for Copying, Copyright, Licence I found these problematic
commands (libs) :
Xen (9f)
diff (9f,l9)
patch (9f, l9)
ghostscript (9f, l9)
mp3dec (9f, l9)
lzip (l9)
9f ... 9font
l9 ... legacy9
I'm not sure how problematic icclib could be. Clause 4 could be
I'm lucky cause I don't need ghostscript, page (depending on it) the fonts. I'm
using a framebuffer renderer instead of rio for my tiny kiosk version of
9front.
My code depends on the bootloader, the drivers, kernelcode, libraries from
9front. Especially the WiFi-drivers, usb support ramfs
Thanks hiro.
Regarding ghostscript :
In plan9-2e this was written in README.Plan9
> Aladdin Ghostscript has been licensed to be included with the
> release of Plan 9. Minor changes were made to the sources to
> accommodate a couple of restrictions in the APE library and to
> produce Plan 9
I noticed that I can't distribute fonts and ghostscript as part of a plan9
(9legacy, 9front) system due to their licensing terms.
Does anybody know about code, libraries, binaries, documentation present on the
latest 9legacy or 9front iso's which are outside the newly applied MIT-licence ?
For everyone interested :
On 64 bit debian systems you need to install the X11 compatibility libraries
with
sudo apt-get install libx11-dev:i386
sudo apt-get install libxext-dev:i386
The same syntax is for the other libraries mentioned by David necessary.
Afterwards it compiles without
Thanks for your fast reply,
I'll try to find the way to install X11 compatibility libraries for debian 64
bit systems.
>
> a) When I typed fshalt I got an error that I don't have permissions to
> call /bin/echo. It seems like echo from the host system was called
> instead of echo
While looking for a way to exchange files between a linux system and an hosted
virtual machine running plan9 I found vx32 and 9vx. I couldn't master to
compile it under a 64 bit Linux cause libX11 was missing as a compatible 32 bit
library so I installed a 32 bit linux and everthing compiled
Would it be possible for the plan 9 foundation to assemble an iso file with all
parts of plan 9 and contributed code as downloadable from the website where in
the root folder the new MIT license could be placed so that developers exactly
know what is really part of this new license ?
As an
First of thank you for your replies and sorry that I couldn*t reply immediatly.
Anthony :
I forgot the partition part in the command cause plan9 didn't recognize the
ext2 partition in a virtual drive created with fdisk from my linux command
line. There where only the entries raw and ctl below
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