[9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-28 Thread cigar562hfsp952fans 
Charles Forsyth  writes:

> It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence Geneva

Wes Kussmaul  writes:

> Instead, habitability of physical buildings is determined by building
> codes and professional licensing that are the product of participatory
> and duly constituted public authority.
>
> That's the role that Osmio sets out to play in non-physical digital
> indoor spaces.

Oh, I see.  But if that's their goal, their homepage does a terrible job
of describing/explaining it.  That site (at least the English version of
it) gives the impression that it's an actual (physical) city.  That
explains the confusion.

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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-27 Thread ori 
> A few steps down the line, I managed to use the second Internet link
> to provision data for the mobile backup link (2), by which time the
> Internet link (would you believe that both Internet services run on a
> long distance wi-fi connection?) had been restored. And that is when I
> noticed that the Plan 9 DNS server had reached 100, then 200 opened
> file handles as reported by the kernel console.

Sounds like an fd leak; I'd grep around for open() calls,
and see if any were missing a close in if the open fails.

You can get some hints at what's been opened by looking
in /proc/$pid/fd -- there'll probably be a bunch of things
open to the same file.


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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-27 Thread Wes Kussmaul 



On 10/26/20 8:39 PM, Thaddeus Woskowiak wrote:

I believe the issue here is that some people have interpreted your
osmio.ch suggestion as a solution to Lucio's DNS issues.


Apologies for my part in the confusion.



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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-27 Thread Lucio De Re 
Just to bring the subject back: it seems the DNS server fails when the
connectivity it relies on is restored. At least, that is how I
interpret what happened this morning.

K some point, my attempts to browse the web failed and looked a lot
like a hostname lookup failure, so I applied my now regular
sledge-hammer to kill and restart the server (1). That failed in its
objective so I actually figured the Internet link had failed.
Coincidentally, the mobile data link had run out of credits, so that
failed too - nothing seems simple around here.

A few steps down the line, I managed to use the second Internet link
to provision data for the mobile backup link (2), by which time the
Internet link (would you believe that both Internet services run on a
long distance wi-fi connection?) had been restored. And that is when I
noticed that the Plan 9 DNS server had reached 100, then 200 opened
file handles as reported by the kernel console.

It seems - I'm hoping someone here knows the DNS server code better
than my distant exploration of it - that a fresh instance of the
server is more robust against a network failure than one that has run
for some time. Presumably some kind of cache problem, as that would be
the significant difference. Myself, cache allocation and general
messing about is the type of code I try desperately to avoid having to
write, let alone debug.

(1) Miller informed me that the DNS server responds to a "restart"
command, but I discovered that if the "-s" option is used, the restart
isn't a complete one.

(2) Recently, I rearranged my small network. Out of necessity as I had
managed to mis-configure the core gateway and could not restore it in
a short time. It used to be that one Internet link did all the work,
with a few exceptions to get around ISP-dictated restrictions and
misconfigurations. Routing to the second link was used as the
anti-censorship measure.

When the primary link failed, removing the lower-cost default route
sufficed to bring the more expensive secondary into full operation. I
wasn't really concerned with failures of the secondary link, they
didn't really have much impact. To be honest, even failure of the
primary link didn't have much impact. Short failures, though, that
would otherwise go unnoticed, I now believe tickled the DNS server
into bad behaviour. Not too short, I don't think, but hardly worth
switching to the secondary.

Since I switched to what used to be the secondary link for all my
desktop work and reserved the primary for Netflix and my partner's
obsession with Trump's misdemeanours, the DNS server has shown a
different pattern of failures, all seemingly related to flakey
connectivity.

Lucio.

PS: those who raised the Osmio flag did so, in my opinion,
disingenuously. Wes has long been known to punt a socially-related
issue. Probably something that needs no further attention in this
thread.


On 10/27/20, Thaddeus Woskowiak  wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:11 PM Wes Kussmaul  wrote:
>>
>> Lucio's concern was about commercial enterprises bending Internet norms
>> to serve their bottom line at the expense of interoperation.
>>
>> Imagine if the physical city where you live allowed building codes to be
>> proprietary, and instead of public professional licensing of architects,
>> contractors, structural engineers and building inspectors you had
>> certification programs of those commercial enterprises.
>>
>> Instead, habitability of physical buildings is determined by building
>> codes and professional licensing that are the product of participatory
>> and duly constituted public authority.
>>
>> That's the role that Osmio sets out to play in non-physical digital
>> indoor spaces.
>>
>>
>> On 10/24/20 6:48 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
>> > It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence
>> > Geneva as location for various international organisations, and indeed
>> > as a setting for several TV series)
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > Wes Kussmaul  writes:
>> >
>> > > On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
>> > >> my situation is getting
>> > >> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by
>> > service
>> > >> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
>> > >> interoperation
>> > >
>> > > I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
>> >
>> > I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal
>> > homepage for
>> > a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
>> > government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?
>> >
>> > *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>> >  + participants
>> >  + delivery options
>> >  Permalink
>> >

Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-26 Thread Thaddeus Woskowiak 
On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 10:11 PM Wes Kussmaul  wrote:
>
> Lucio's concern was about commercial enterprises bending Internet norms
> to serve their bottom line at the expense of interoperation.
>
> Imagine if the physical city where you live allowed building codes to be
> proprietary, and instead of public professional licensing of architects,
> contractors, structural engineers and building inspectors you had
> certification programs of those commercial enterprises.
>
> Instead, habitability of physical buildings is determined by building
> codes and professional licensing that are the product of participatory
> and duly constituted public authority.
>
> That's the role that Osmio sets out to play in non-physical digital
> indoor spaces.
>
>
> On 10/24/20 6:48 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> > It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence
> > Geneva as location for various international organisations, and indeed
> > as a setting for several TV series)
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM  > > wrote:
> >
> > Wes Kussmaul  writes:
> >
> > > On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
> > >> my situation is getting
> > >> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
> > >> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
> > >> interoperation
> > >
> > > I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
> >
> > I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal
> > homepage for
> > a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
> > government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?
> >
> > *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
> >  + participants
> >  + delivery options
> >  Permalink
> > 
> --
> 
> *Wes Kussmaul*
> 
> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
> an Authenticity Enterprise
> 738 Main Street
> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
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> 

I believe the issue here is that some people have interpreted your
osmio.ch suggestion as a solution to Lucio's DNS issues.

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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-25 Thread Wes Kussmaul 


On 10/25/20 3:28 PM, hiro wrote:

On 10/25/20, Wes Kussmaul  wrote:

That's strange. What happens when you click?

Try optimocracy.org

is it coincidence that the IP this points to also hosts kussmaul.net
and assfag.com ?


Ugh. Not a coincidence, a mistake.

We use three hosting services; optimocracy.org is on one that hasn't 
been attended to in a while. I set it up myself and haven't bothered my 
very capable team with it.


Hiro, thank you for pointing this out. I'll have our hosting director 
move all our domains from that services and issue the coup de grace to 
our relationship with them.


I assure you, we have no connection to assfag.com and never heard of the 
domain before this.


Wes


*Wes Kussmaul*

*Reliable Identities, Inc.*
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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-25 Thread hiro 
On 10/25/20, Wes Kussmaul  wrote:
> That's strange. What happens when you click?
>
> Try optimocracy.org

is it coincidence that the IP this points to also hosts kussmaul.net
and assfag.com ?

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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-25 Thread Wes Kussmaul 

That's strange. What happens when you click?

Try optimocracy.org

On 10/25/20 2:54 PM, hiro wrote:

still not clicking, sorry. your argument is self-referencing at best.

--

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*Wes Kussmaul*

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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-25 Thread hiro 
still not clicking, sorry. your argument is self-referencing at best.

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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-25 Thread Wes Kussmaul 

https://www.osmio.ch/about-optimocracy.html

On 10/25/20 2:32 PM, hiro wrote:

i do not find. i looked into it, i guess my dictionaries have not been
updated with your insight.

On 10/25/20, Wes Kussmaul  wrote:

Look into it. You'll find that optimocracy has built-in methods that
make it difficult to influence things that way.

See "Governance" at osmio.ch.

On 10/25/20 9:33 AM, hiro wrote:

participatory as in big cases of cash money

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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-25 Thread hiro 
i do not find. i looked into it, i guess my dictionaries have not been
updated with your insight.

On 10/25/20, Wes Kussmaul  wrote:
> Look into it. You'll find that optimocracy has built-in methods that
> make it difficult to influence things that way.
>
> See "Governance" at osmio.ch.
>
> On 10/25/20 9:33 AM, hiro wrote:
>> participatory as in big cases of cash money
> --
> 
> *Wes Kussmaul*
> 
> *Reliable Identities, Inc.*
> an Authenticity Enterprise
> 738 Main Street
> Waltham, MA 02451 USA
> t: +1 781 790 1674
> m: +1 781 330 1881
> e: w...@reliableid.com 
> 
> Learn About Authenticity 
> 
> This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise
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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-25 Thread Wes Kussmaul 
Look into it. You'll find that optimocracy has built-in methods that 
make it difficult to influence things that way.


See "Governance" at osmio.ch.

On 10/25/20 9:33 AM, hiro wrote:

participatory as in big cases of cash money

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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-25 Thread hiro 
participatory as in big cases of cash money

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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-24 Thread Wes Kussmaul 
Lucio's concern was about commercial enterprises bending Internet norms 
to serve their bottom line at the expense of interoperation.


Imagine if the physical city where you live allowed building codes to be 
proprietary, and instead of public professional licensing of architects, 
contractors, structural engineers and building inspectors you had 
certification programs of those commercial enterprises.


Instead, habitability of physical buildings is determined by building 
codes and professional licensing that are the product of participatory 
and duly constituted public authority.


That's the role that Osmio sets out to play in non-physical digital 
indoor spaces.



On 10/24/20 6:48 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence 
Geneva as location for various international organisations, and indeed 
as a setting for several TV series)


On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM > wrote:


Wes Kussmaul  writes:

> On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
>> my situation is getting
>> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
>> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
>> interoperation
>
> I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/

I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal
homepage for
a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?

*9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
 + participants
 + delivery options
 Permalink


--

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an Authenticity Enterprise
738 Main Street
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t: +1 781 790 1674
m: +1 781 330 1881
e: w...@reliableid.com 

Learn About Authenticity 

This message is confidential. It may also be privileged or otherwise 
protected by work product immunity or other legal rules. If you have 
received it by mistake, please let us know by e-mail reply and delete it 
from your system; you may not copy this message or disclose its contents 
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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-24 Thread Calvin Morrison 
Didn't they sell bearings to the Nazis?

- an actual swiss citizen

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020, at 6:48 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence Geneva 
> as location for various international organisations, and indeed as a setting 
> for several TV series)
> 
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM  wrote:
>> Wes Kussmaul  writes:
>> 
>> > On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
>> >> my situation is getting
>> >> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
>> >> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
>> >> interoperation
>> >
>> > I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
>> 
>> I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal homepage for
>> a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
>> government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions 
>  + participants 
>  + delivery options 
>  Permalink 
> 

Calvin
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Re: [9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-24 Thread Charles Forsyth 
It's a virtual city in Switzerland, which is famously neutral (hence Geneva
as location for various international organisations, and indeed as a
setting for several TV series)

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM  wrote:

> Wes Kussmaul  writes:
>
> > On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
> >> my situation is getting
> >> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
> >> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
> >> interoperation
> >
> > I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/
> 
> I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal homepage for
> a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
> government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?

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[9fans] Re: Flakey DNS server

2020-10-24 Thread cigar562hfsp952fans 
Wes Kussmaul  writes:

> On 10/7/20 12:08 AM, Lucio De Re wrote:
>> my situation is getting
>> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
>> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
>> interoperation
>
> I suggest taking a look at https://www.osmio.ch/

I don't get it.  That Web site appears to be the municipal homepage for
a city in Switzerland that uses digital certificates as official
government-recognized ID.  What does that have to do with anything?

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