Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-08-05 Thread Richard Maxwell Underwood
Roman V. Shaposhnik writes: If we were to oversimplify things [then the] brain is, at its core, limited by a very fundamental biological constraint: speed at which cells can communicate. A sort of propagation delay if we were to use electronics as an analogy. It seems to be agreed

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-30 Thread tlaronde
On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:12:05PM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote: It is slightly depressing to think that the situation has not really changed since EWD wrote this in 1975. It will take some young whippersnapper of a Dijkstra or Hoare or Strachey or Iverson or Backus to find the critical insight

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-30 Thread Roman V. Shaposhnik
On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 13:35 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:12:05PM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote: It is slightly depressing to think that the situation has not really changed since EWD wrote this in 1975. It will take some young whippersnapper of a Dijkstra or

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-30 Thread Robert Raschke
I think useful parallel programming paradigms can very probably be abstracted from really big systems like a national health system or an army. How parallelism is employed in those systems, would be a good starting point for a deeper investigation. Especially a military system must have some very

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-30 Thread David Leimbach
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:35 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 12:12:05PM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote: It is slightly depressing to think that the situation has not really changed since EWD wrote this in 1975. It will take some young whippersnapper of a Dijkstra or Hoare

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-30 Thread Paweł Lasek
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 13:50, Roman V. Shaposhnik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 13:35 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The most efficient is to have tools that match the way our brains work (or not...). I'm not convinced our brains are parallel (at least mines are not). I

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-30 Thread andrey mirtchovski
Is the human thought process parallel? For _my capacities_, I have the impression that I'm more multitask than parallel. And context switch is expensive because there is not only explicit data, but also implicit and I'm not able, if I'm really doing something involved, to restore the previous

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-30 Thread tlaronde
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 08:50:28AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote: i don't see how csp is *not* parallel processing. as soon as you have more than 1 work process per client, i would call that parallel processing. It's a kind of parallelism, of course. But since it makes sense, it is not

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-30 Thread andrey mirtchovski
I disagree on philosophical grounds ;-) It's been one of the major engineering follies to always approach design from a just follow the nature standpoint. No wonder that before the Wright brothers everybody thought the best way to fly is to flap some kind of wings. off topic, but to note:

[9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-28 Thread andrey mirtchovski
found this snippet today and decided to share it with the list. every once in a while a look at how the rest of the world does things is beneficial :) I don't know about you, but every time I have to program with threads and shared resources, I want to remove my face incrementally with a salad

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-28 Thread tlaronde
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 11:11:19AM -0600, andrey mirtchovski wrote: found this snippet today and decided to share it with the list. every once in a while a look at how the rest of the world does things is beneficial :) I don't know about you, but every time I have to program with threads

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-28 Thread Pietro Gagliardi
On Jul 28, 2008, at 1:11 PM, andrey mirtchovski wrote: salad fork. Locks, mutexes, the synchronized keyword; all of these things can strike fear into the heart of a green developer. Most That's what you get for using Java. On Jul 28, 2008, at 1:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm unable to

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-28 Thread Russ Cox
Don Knuth: I'm unable to judge what ideas about parallelism are likely to be useful five or ten years from now, let alone fifty, so I happily leave such questions to others who are wiser than I. Pietro: By that time, ... If only I could tell him that without having to wait for the snail! I

Re: [9fans] current state of thread programming

2008-07-28 Thread Skip Tavakkolian
Don Knuth: I'm unable to judge what ideas about parallelism are likely to be useful five or ten years from now, let alone fifty, so I happily leave such questions to others who are wiser than I. Pietro: By that time, ... If only I could tell him that without having to wait for the snail!