And what exactly does it mean to you?
(Faced with this, Muse would currently just interpret the chord up to the
first thing outside its limited syntax, so E/A is played as E, D/A is played
as D).
Laurie
- Original Message -
From: Mike Whitaker [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Did I miss it as it flew by or are you going to tell us what the proposed
standard (or STANDARD) meaning for D/A etc. should be?
My own guess is that D/A means any combination of the notes D F# and A in
any octaves, so long as it contains at least one of each note and the lowest
note of all of
Nice advert.
I guess I should remind people that Muse is a graphical music editor that
imports and exports ABC and costs only £20 which is around $35 for those in
the USA. I suppose while we're doing adverts I should add how it can also
translate ABC into guitar tablature (or mandolin,
, 13. April 2002 01:05 schrieb Laurie (ukonline):
Nice advert.
:-)
the USA. I suppose while we're doing adverts I should add how it can also
translate ABC into guitar tablature (or mandolin, balalaika bouzouki etc).
I have mentioned exactly this to the co-mando (mandoline players' email
list
graphically
Rick writes:
| Laurie (ukonline) wrote:
|
| No, sorry - no Linux version.
|
| (You mean Linux doesn't have a Windows emulation subsystem!!)
|
| Shudder!!! (To the backdrop of loud wailing and gnashing of teeth!!) ;-)
Well, actually, it does have several. Wine and Lindows come to mind
Buddha Buck wrote off-list (the best place) to the effect that
snip
One thing I hear from your comment is that the MS Apps folks had access to
pre-release API's to base their apps on.
snip
Which meant that the MS App folks got a head-start on development on the
new versions
snip
and I replied
,
so lots of strathspeys get played there.
wil
-Original Message-
From: Laurie (ukonline)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 4/16/2002 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [abcusers] Wanted: a good strathspey for fiddle in Bb
Dishonest answer: Yes - but then you have to mess about with it until
it
plays well
Oh, Lord! I never realised that Bretons had been treated like that!
Laurie
- Original Message -
From: Quiniou Rene [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [abcusers] jcabc2ps and mystery breton tune
Kerfank means camp of mud. The
Muse will play them. (Muse is not alone in this, in fact I think there are
lots of programs that will).
Laurie
- Original Message -
From: Karl Dallas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: [abcusers] Chords
Very interesting. Is there
The title appears to be nonsense, the rest is Russian with the odd English
word. I only had a quick look, but I think it was advertising mass-mailing
tools. The first thing after the heading said Buy our disk. You will get
a truly something marketing mechanism.
The something represents
Hmmm ... Y'know; that might not be too difficult. For the x note
heads, it would have been nice if 'x' hadn't been already taken up as
an invisible rest; it would have made an intuitively-correct modifier
for this purpose. Maybe we could use '*' for this purpose, so the *e
would be an e
There isn't much use of 'x' as a non-printing rest (yet).
There's enough that I implmented the damn thing and I don't want to start
unimplementing it and making exceptions.
Laurie
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I think I'd be in favour of something that went in K: to say what follows
are to be interpreted as percussion symbols. It seems to me that what the
key signature does is to define how the following notes are to be
interpreted (this one is sharp, that one is not and so forth) and it's
merely a
On Fri, 24 May 2002, Laurie (ukonline) wrote:
Well as Muse already has diamond, cross square (oh, and the usual
ellipse)
for note heads, the answer is about minus three years for the
formatting,
GUI editing, printing, etc.
How does the abc look for this in muse?
It doesn't! Muse has
Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wroteI don't care how my abc playes,
and looking back on the descussion about ^f-|f a couple of months ago
obviously abc2midi is only to be considered a toy, so I guess the rest of
the comunity feels the same as me...
polite cough
abc2midi is not the only
Frank Evil Grin Nordberg challenged Can anybody come up with a clear and
consise definition (in twenty words
or less) of the difference between musically relevant and purely notational
features?
A difference between two pieces of notation is musically relevant if and
only if it means they should
My vote is
1. Deprecated
2. Transfer fixed time to keep total constant (sorry Phil)
I have no idea what Muse does - I kinds hope it screams murder!.
L.
- Original Message -
From: Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 2:13 PM
Subject: [abcusers]
Phil Wrote
Laurie wrote My vote is 1. Deprecated...
Er, what are you proposing to deprecate?
Sorry - too hasty. Deprecate or between unequal length notes such as
FF2 or F2F.
As to how much time to transfer - well given that it's already deprecated
this is getting picky - I'd just say some.
abcm2ps allows
!0!C!1!D !2!E!3!F !4!G!5!A !+!B c
to display nice numbers above staff and
the w: field to display them below...
The above looks pretty hideous and if you put the fingerings in w:, where do
you put the words?
Laurie
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Frank asked I really wonder what the results from other abc applications
are.
Well, (deep breath) Muse didn't like it a lot.
It generates a bug report saying ABC ties don't match Muse ties. Please
report this bug to me. That is one of quite a learge number of messages in
Muse that are never
Atte: speed? I think I'm faster in abc than I used to be in encore, but I'm
not sure...
Phil: When using a graphical music editor to type music in from a score,
this is what you spend most time doing:
*Look at the score, see that the next note is A and it's 1/8.
etc
OUCH! Get Muse!
OK - I
JC's tune finder is magic.
For instance I was at the last M27 Megabop which Rufus Returns played at.
They played one number I really liked but I was unable to learn it there and
then (no Mozart, I). I went to Chipenham Folk Festival last weekend and
someone played it in the English Session in
I have performed magic on stage in the past. There was of course always a
mundane behind-the-scenes explanation of what appeared to happen, there was
some effort needed to implement the tricks, some people to whom credit was
due, etc.
It's definitely magic.
Laurie
- Original Message -
Too true! I remember having a *lot* of fun with Muse over just such
pixellation-on-screen and spacing problems in the early days.
L.
- Original Message -
From: Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
...
Acrobat Reader doesn't understand music, and (for example) doesn't know
that staff lines MUST
I haven't messed with music in pdf enough to be sure if it can happen, but
if a staff line is only a single row of pixels then simple-minded algorithms
can sometimes drop the row altogether and that is a complete disaster.
Incidentally, I make sure that I keep the master copies of the music for
Yes - I am absolutely sure that it was not in the master copy because I made
a complete fool of myself telling him that he should have printed one copy
and photocpied it. He said that is what had been done. I said no way or
words to that effect and he said that as he had done it himself,
I tend to use Essential Dictionary of Music Notation by Tom Gerou and
Linda Lusk. ISBN 0-88284-768-6
It's clear and it's short.
- Original Message -
From: Bob Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2002 12:12 AM
Subject: [abcusers] Music Engraving Today
Interesting. The thing that has bothered me for a long time is whether
being able to have files dropped on you is worth a megabyte of download
time.
When I built Muse I avoided MFC because the instant you touch it the file
size goes up by a megabyte (it may be more). Now it may be possible to
| - add keyboard shortcuts for every command (or for the most used
| at least)
|
| Yes, although with over 100 menu commands there aren't enough
| keys to go round.
I think I counted that Muse has about 70 shortcuts defined (so there's heavy
use of Ctrl+this and Shift+that). It would be a very
From: Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
!snip
!
!Here are a few more application-level things that might make life
!easier:
!We need:
! * transposition (which understands the mode of what's being
! transposed)
!
!snip
Why does transposition need to understand the mode?
Am I missing
Laurie Why does transposition need to understand the mode?
Laura Currently, the abc2midi transposer only understands the key
signature. So if I have a piece in D dorian, and I transpose it up 3 half
notes, the transposed output is in Ab. It should be in F dorian.
Oh, is that all?
I would
| Of course if a key signature had a note flatted and the music had it
| double-sharped then (1) a triple-sharp would be needed and (2) the input
| file is silly anyway so who cares?
|
| No (1) is wrong because accidentals are absolute, rather than relative.
Beg to differ. If it was flatted in
One reason for preferring sharps for guitar chords is that if they are
actually to be played on a *guitar*, you can always move a shape up the neck
by a fret, so that I can immediately think of several ways to play A#. Of
course they need barlocks, but there's not always a way round that. On
The attitude that I take in Muse is that Muse does beaming automatically, so
I disregard the beaming information in the ABC. I can argue both sides of
this, but the argument for this action is that fundamentally ABC is about
describing the music, not the printed page. What Muse does is to
If you ever try importing a MIDI file you rapidly realise that this is a
simple case.
Any non-Balkan time signature has a standard division into beats and
subdivisions (beyond some point it's just continual dividing by two).
You pad up to the next whole beat in steadily increasing multiples.
Guido said :...Sorry for not providing the original Russian lyrics,...,
I'll be glad
to accept them.
I'm trying to get a Russian friend of mine to supply them and if she comes
up with the goods I'll type them in.
L.
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
The penny has just dropped. (It's hard reading these transliterations).
It's the Lord's Prayer!
Otche is approximately atyets (stress the yets) = father.
Nash = our.
I bet you can now manage to translate all the other words and if you count
the lines carefully you might even know whether to
LaurieSure, but I've seen quite a few tunes with K:D and then every
single C in the piece naturalised. In those cases invariably the
description
is half right - the tonic D is right, but the mode is wrong.
Eric so does it means the right notation was to write K:Dm ?
Probably K:Ddor
Dm tends
Thanks.
Muse2 (hopefully out in another month or so) has prettier notes.
The restriction on different notes starting at the same time has gone away.
that probably blows away some of your tab problems too.
The options for setting up tab generation are probably going to be fixed in
the release
Yawn.
Sigh.
Look. If you think you are the only fellow allowed an opinion then you are
crazy, so I'll presume that you don't think that and you agree that others
can have theirs. That includes me. You are for ever (and it has got
boring) quoting people out of context and misquoting people.
Actually I have to say that my original intention when producing Muse was to
be able to produce music so that I could read it (I am not the best of
sight-readers so it has to be fairly clear) and someone standing behind me
reading over my shoulder could read it - because that happens in gigs
... And the English think that English is the language that the English
speak!!
Laurie
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Ages ago Eric said programs should ... - follow the general convention for
shortcuts (ctrl + c for
copy, ctrl + a for select all etc.)
I'm just looking at this in Muse. The problems is that a clip has a musical
context described in Muse by Clef, Key signature, transpose, capo and
accidentals
Let's see; Scotland does have its own parliament now, but it doesn't have
its own army or navy, so it must be a dialect (and an inferior one at
that ;-).
I'd better wait and see what Jack and Phil say - but there seem to me to be
many Scotsmen that consider their variant of English a
According to Gerou and Lusk in their Essential Dictionary of Music Notation,
Because of the ease in reading of beams, the use of flags in vocal music -
in relation to the lyric - has become obsolete. So I guess it's at least
contentious. (Out of 161 pages they devote 12 whole pages to beams).
My recollection was that someone else started it but gave a transcription
which did have silence, but did not have exactly the right length of
silence. Whether it is 4'11 or 4'13 is clearly incredibly (sic) important
and I do hope I didn't get the wrong one.
Laurie
- Original Message -
I'm incredibly mortified. I apologise for my ignorance. Are all three
movements the same length? Do they add up to 4'33 or is that the length of
each?
This is a real challenge for a player program. I presume that an authentic
computer performance must come up with some sort of opening noise
Do you explicitly require that it plays music that is in NWC format?
Laurie
- Original Message -
From: Guido Gonzato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: ABC users ML [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 10:22 AM
Subject: [abcusers] a request to talented programmers
hello,
Windows users have
I have to agree with Henrik.
My experience is that many musicians (including some quite good ones who
really ought to know better) do one of two things. They either say an Edor
tune is in D (which is silly as it spends it's time flirting briefly with D
and then homing back to E just as a piece
Tonic is important because it says where the tune is going.
Mode is important because it says how the tune is going to get there.
If a tune is in an open key (no white notes on the harpsichord) then in the
major (or Ionian) mode the obvious harmony is the three chord trick C,
G7 and F. The
Well there are a few odd pieces that one or two list members have unearthed
that seem to be really the Greek phrygian mode in that they resolve on to a
chord which is a triad starting from the tonic. e.g. in EPhr that's E G B
or an E minor chord. They know more than I do. I don't understand
John Chambers wrote ...That phrygian major sounds a lot like what the
people to the south and east of Spain call hejaz and klezmer musicians
call freygish. Phrygian with a raised 3rd ...
Yes. In Ephr, the ^G from the E major in the harmony creeps into the tune
now and again. But for most
Actually Muse isn;t locked up quite that badly - it will turn ABC into
tadpoles on the screen. What it won't do is play or print.
Maybe I should make Muse2 so that it will *play* ABC for free.
(It's a one-line change so I may be able to find the time).
L.
- Original Message -
From:
I've been transcribing choruses of The Messiah. The voices are of course
monophonic, but piano accompaniments have all sorts of nasties. I have
found that shortest note determines when next note starts works well. You
can always add a rest or two if that's not what you wanted.
Laurie
-
Laurie:
I've been transcribing choruses of The Messiah.
Phil:
If you're doing something that complicated you have to be using multiple
voices anyway...to represent the two hands unambiguously.
Well Muse has a serious problem in using multiple voices for a piano part.
(I would guess Bryan's
Is it legal abc to have a rest in a chord?
For instance:
X:0
T:Example
L:1/8
M:4/2
K:G
[zG8 B8 d8]gfe dcBA G8
Failing that we really do need the number on the end like
X:1
T:Example
L:1/8
M:4/2
K:G
[G8 B8 d8]1gfe dcBA G8
Note that one might need single note chords with a length.
This leads
Muse as released does *not* use the shortest note wins rule. In fact it's
pretty restrictive which can make it a pain for keyboard users. At the
moment I'm doing a major rewrite (called Muse2) which is aimed at
1. Choral singers (better control over playback - done)
2. Keyboard players (live
Bryan wrote I know you've been away Laurie but this has been discussed at
some length for
over a week now. A variety of people have given their reasons and examples.
Perhaps if you would care to read the whole thread you could come up with
specific reasons why you disagree and why you think
[shrug] Well he asked for examples...
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I can't be bothered to argue the minutiae...
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How is that supposed to look and sound?
Muse makes it look and sound funny.
There is a slur mark on every note, caused by those () did you mean []?
And they are funny slurs because they just perch on one note rather than
combining several (because the other thing in the slur is invisible).
It
I apparently am now on my way to earning a PhD in 8 months. Cool! :-)
8 months is far too long for a PhD! I've had many offers of instant ones.
I'm hanging out for a D Phil.
Meanwhile I shall making a fortune stuffing envelopes and taking part in
100% legal pyramid selling schemes, cancelling
Curious. Did these work in the abc software you put them
together in? (How's that for a split infinitive?)
Actually that is not a split infinitive. You don't need to really bother
about them though. Some authorities on English (e.g. Fowler) say that
people make fools of themselves trying to
Frank wrote ... I bought ... a ... banjo tears ago...
Wonderful!!
I know that t and y are keyboard neighbours but I like to imagine it was a
Freudian slip.
Laurie
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Muse has the concept of a performance MIDI file or an exchange MIDI
file.
The implementation is nothing too special, but I think this concept is the
right way to go.
For instance, in an exchange MIDI file all the notes will be exactly the
lengths that you'd expect from looking at the dots (e.g.
Si vous vous interessez en l'Zchange des tounes en ABC, soit QuZbZcois ou
non, faites le ici!
Vous connaissez le tune finder do John Chambers?
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/FindTune.html
Ca peut vous etre utile.
[If you are interested in swapping tunes in ABC, whether quebecois or not,
If it didn't have to be ABC you could use Muse
http://www.musements.co.uk/muse
which has X, diamond, square or ellipse.
However if you then save as ABC that information would not be included in
the file.
Laurie.
- Original Message -
From: Guido Gonzato [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: abcusers
Muse2 is now in the final stages, (about three months late). I hope to get
it finished this week.
Still to go are some fixes for bugs that I found as I was writing the
on-line Help and the Registration mechanism.
So I am deciding what should be free and what should need paying for.
The following
If you really want it spelled out for a player program then you write it
with ties:
G7cBAB |1 Cc2-Fc2-Cc4 :|2 Cc2-Fc2-Cc4 |]
You have to decide whether you are writing for a machine or writing for a
human. (The former is a bit of a mugs game - done far too much of it and
they never say thank
Alas, no still Win32 only - (and that has taken me till 1am most nights,
maybe this is what these new drug developments like provigil are for...?)
Laurie
- Original Message -
From: Rick Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 11:52 AM
Subject:
...So please respect my right to be grumpy, anti-social, selfish and
bitter.
Yep. All the best anyway.
Once at a crisis point in my life I got an email from an Indian friend who
said always remember that some of Gods greatest gifts come in the form of
unanswered prayers.
Laurie
To
Thanks for your thoughts.
My current thinking is to just disable save, which would indeed give you
what you want. It looks like I will be implementing this Saturday so I just
have some time for some last minute thoughts and changes of mind [looks at
clock - oh, it *is* Saturday - well, after
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