Re: RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-29 Thread Eric Burton
A succesful AGI should have n methods of data-mining its experience for knowledge, I think. If it should have n ways of generating those methods or n sets of ways to generate ways of generating those methods etc I don't know. On 8/28/08, j.k. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 08/28/2008 04:47 PM, Matt

Re: RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-29 Thread Abram Demski
I like that argument. Also, it is clear that humans can invent better algorithms to do specialized things. Even if an AGI couldn't think up better versions of itself, it would be able to do the equivalent of equipping itself with fancy calculators. --Abram On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 9:04 PM, j.k.

Re: RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-29 Thread j.k.
On 08/29/2008 10:09 AM, Abram Demski wrote: I like that argument. Also, it is clear that humans can invent better algorithms to do specialized things. Even if an AGI couldn't think up better versions of itself, it would be able to do the equivalent of equipping itself with fancy calculators.

Re: RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-29 Thread William Pearson
2008/8/29 j.k. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 08/28/2008 04:47 PM, Matt Mahoney wrote: The premise is that if humans can create agents with above human intelligence, then so can they. What I am questioning is whether agents at any intelligence level can do this. I don't believe that agents at any

Re: RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-29 Thread Matt Mahoney
It seems that the debate over recursive self improvement depends on what you mean by improvement. If you define improvement as intelligence as defined by the Turing test, then RSI is not possible because the Turing test does not test for superhuman intelligence. If you mean improvement as more

Re: RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-29 Thread j.k.
On 08/29/2008 01:29 PM, William Pearson wrote: 2008/8/29 j.k.[EMAIL PROTECTED]: An AGI with an intelligence the equivalent of a 99.-percentile human might be creatable, recognizable and testable by a human (or group of humans) of comparable intelligence. That same AGI at some later

Re: RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-29 Thread William Pearson
2008/8/29 j.k. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 08/29/2008 01:29 PM, William Pearson wrote: 2008/8/29 j.k.[EMAIL PROTECTED]: An AGI with an intelligence the equivalent of a 99.-percentile human might be creatable, recognizable and testable by a human (or group of humans) of comparable

Re: RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-29 Thread j.k.
On 08/29/2008 03:14 PM, William Pearson wrote: 2008/8/29 j.k.[EMAIL PROTECTED]: ... The human-level AGI running a million times faster could simultaneously interact with tens of thousands of scientists at their pace, so there is no reason to believe it need be starved for interaction to the

RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-28 Thread Matt Mahoney
Here is Vernor Vinge's original essay on the singularity. http://mindstalk.net/vinge/vinge-sing.html The premise is that if humans can create agents with above human intelligence, then so can they. What I am questioning is whether agents at any intelligence level can do this. I don't believe

Re: RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-28 Thread Mike Tintner
Thanks. But like I said, airy generalities. That machines can become faster and faster at computations and accumulating knowledge is certain. But that's narrow AI. For general intelligence, you have to be able first to integrate as well as accumulate knowledge. We have learned vast amounts

Re: RSI (was Re: Goedel machines (was Re: Information theoretic approaches to AGI (was Re: [agi] The Necessity of Embodiment)))

2008-08-28 Thread j.k.
On 08/28/2008 04:47 PM, Matt Mahoney wrote: The premise is that if humans can create agents with above human intelligence, then so can they. What I am questioning is whether agents at any intelligence level can do this. I don't believe that agents at any level can recognize higher