[agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Jim Bromer
One of the problems that comes with the casual use of analytical methods is that the user becomes inured to their habitual misuse. When a casual familiarity is combined with a habitual ignorance of the consequences of a misuse the user can become over-confident or unwisely dismissive of criticism

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Abram Demski
Jim, There is a large body of literature on avoiding overfitting, ie, finding patterns that work for more then just the data at hand. Of course, the ultimate conclusion is that you can never be 100% sure; but some interesting safeguards have been cooked up anyway, which help in practice. My

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Steve Richfield
Jim, YES - and I think I have another piece of your puzzle to consider... A longtime friend of mine, Dave, went on to become a PhD psychologist, who subsequently took me on as a sort of project - to figure out why most people who met me then either greatly valued my friendship, or quite the

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Jim Bromer
Hi. I will just make a quick response to this message and then I want to think about the other messages before I reply. A few weeks ago I decided that I would write a criticism of ai-probability to post to this group. I wasn't able remember all of my criticisms so I decided to post a few

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Ben Goertzel
Well, if you're willing to take the step of asking questions about the world that are framed in terms of probabilities and probability distributions ... then modern probability and statistics tell you a lot about overfitting and how to avoid it... OTOH if, like Pei Wang, you think it's misguided

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Matt Mahoney
--- On Sat, 11/29/08, Jim Bromer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not sure if Norvig's application of a probabilistic method to detect overfitting is truly directed toward the agi community. In other words: Has anyone in this grouped tested the utility and clarity of the decision making of a

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Charles Hixson
A response to: I wondered why anyone would deface the expression of his own thoughts with an emotional and hostile message, My theory is that thoughts are generated internally and forced into words via a babble generator. Then the thoughts are filtered through a screen to remove any that

Re: [agi] who is going to build the wittgenstein-ian AI filter to spot all the intellectual nonsense

2008-11-29 Thread Charles Hixson
A general approach to this that frequently works is to examine the definitions that you are using for ambiguity. Then to look for operational tests. If the only clear meanings lack operational tests, then it's probably worthless to waste computing resources on the problem until those

Re: [agi] If aliens are monitoring us, our development of AGI might concern them

2008-11-29 Thread Charles Hixson
Well. The speed of light limitation seems rather secure. So I would propose that we have been visited by roboticized probes, rather than by naturally evolved creatures. And the energetic constraints make it seem likely that they were extremely small and infrequent...though I suppose that

Re: [agi] Re: JAGI submission

2008-11-29 Thread Charles Hixson
Matt Mahoney wrote: --- On Tue, 11/25/08, Eliezer Yudkowsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shane Legg, I don't mean to be harsh, but your attempt to link Kolmogorov complexity to intelligence is causing brain damage among impressionable youths. ( Link debunked here:

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Jim Bromer
In response to my message, where I said, What is wrong with the AI-probability group mind-set is that very few of its proponents ever consider the problem of statistical ambiguity and its obvious consequences. Abram noted, The AI-probability group definitely considers such problems. There is a

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Jim Bromer
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To me the big weaknesses of modern probability theory lie in **hypothesis generation** and **inference**. Testing a hypothesis against data, to see if it's overfit to that data, is handled well by crossvalidation and

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Ben Goertzel
Whether an AI needs to explicitly manipulate declarative statements is a deep question ... it may be that other dynamics that are in some contexts implicitly equivalent to this sort of manipulation will suffice But anyway, there is no contradiction between manipulating explicit declarative

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Ben Goertzel
Could you give me a little more detail about your thoughts on this? Do you think the problem of increasing uncomputableness of complicated complexity is the common thread found in all of the interesting, useful but unscalable methods of AI? Jim Bromer Well, I think that dealing with

Re: [agi] Mushed Up Decision Processes

2008-11-29 Thread Jim Bromer
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Steve Richfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim, YES - and I think I have another piece of your puzzle to consider... A longtime friend of mine, Dave, went on to become a PhD psychologist, who subsequently took me on as a sort of project - to figure out why

[agi] Seeking CYC critiques

2008-11-29 Thread Robin Hanson
What are the best available critiques of CYC as it exists now (vs. soon after project started)? Robin Hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hanson.gmu.edu Research Associate, Future of Humanity Institute at Oxford University Associate Professor of Economics, George Mason University MSN 1D3, Carow

Re: [agi] Seeking CYC critiques

2008-11-29 Thread Stephen Reed
Hi Robin, There are no Cyc critiques that I know of in the last few years. I was employed seven years at Cycorp until August 2006 and my non-compete agreement expired a year later. An interesting competition was held by Project Halo in which Cycorp participated along with two other