Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Pei Wang
In my case (http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/), that scenario won't happen --- it is impossible for the project to fail. ;-) Seriously, if it happens, most likely it is because the control process is too complicated to be handled properly by the designer's mind. Or, it is possible that the

Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Stefan Pernar
Dear Ben, On 9/25/06, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) The design is totally workable but just requires much more hardware than is currently available. (Our current estimates of hardware requirements for powerful Novamente AGI are back-of-the-envelope rather than rigorous

Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, Just out of curiosity - would you mind sharing your hardware estimates with the list? I would personally find that fascinating. Mant thanks, Stefan Well, here is one way to slice it... there are many, of course... Currently the bottleneck for Novamente's cognitive processing is the

RE: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Peter Voss
Looking at past and current (likely) failures trying to solve the wrong problem is the first place, or not having good enough theory/ approaches to solving the right problems, or poor implementation However, even though you specifically restricted your question

Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Sergio Navega
In my way of seeing things, when projects reach that "non salvageable" status, one is likely to find serious theoretical errors, possibly made in the beginning of the journey. That's a problem we cannot avoid, because we all don't know precisely what it is that we must do to achieve general

RE: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Andrew Babian
Peter Voss mentioned trying to solve the wrong problem is the first place as a source for failure in an AGI project. This was actually this first thing that I thought of, and it brought to my mind a problem that I think of when considering general intelligence theories--object permanence. Now, I

Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Ben Goertzel
However, in the current day, I would say that we can list some principles that any successful project must comply. Anyone want to start the list? Sergio Navega. Sergio, While this is an interesting pursuit, I find it it much more difficult than the already-hard problem of articulating some

Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Sergio Navega
From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] However, in the current day, I would say that we can list some principles that any successful project must comply. Anyone want to start the list? Sergio Navega. Sergio, While this is an interesting pursuit, I find it it much more difficult than the

Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Sergio Navega
From: J. Storrs Hall, PhD. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (4) wasting time on symbol grounding. (this wouldn't be a problem for a 10-year, $50M project but the question was to us and for 5 years.) A computer has direct access to enough domains of discourse (such as basic math) that there's no need to try

Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread J. Storrs Hall, PhD.
On Monday 25 September 2006 16:48, Ben Goertzel wrote: My own view is that symbol grounding is not a waste of time ... but, **exclusive reliance** on symbol grounding is a waste of time. It's certainly not a waste of time in the general sense, especially if you're going to be building a robot!

Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Nathan Cook
Ben, I take it you're using the word hypergraph in the strict mathematical sense. What do you gain from a hypergraph over an ordinary graph, in terms of representability, say?To return to the topic, didn't Minsky say that 'the trick is that there is no trick'? I doubt there's any single point of

Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Russell Wallace
On 9/26/06, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, what I would say in response to you is: If you presume a **bad**KR format, you can't match it with a learning mechanism that reliablyfills one's knowledge repository with knowledge...If you presume a sufficiently and appropriately flexible KR

Re: [agi] Failure scenarios

2006-09-25 Thread Richard Loosemore
Ben Goertzel wrote: Hi, The real grounding problem is the awkward and annoying fact that if you presume a KR format, you can't reverse engineer a learning mechanism that reliably fills that KR with knowledge. Sure... To go back to the source, in