--- Start of forwarded message ---
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2024 09:44:58 +0300
Message-Id: <86jzj0djbp@gnu.org>
From: Eli Zaretskii
To: r...@gnu.org
Cc: a...@alphapapa.net, y...@rabkins.net, emacs-de...@gnu.org
In-Reply-To: (message from Richard
Stallman on Fri, 07 Jun 2024
b version hasn't been updated in a while, I can do that later
> this week or so.
Thank you.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
if I can get ii fixed in Trisquel.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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?
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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e hyphen?
I installed the other fixes.
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throw hurdles in the way, such as non-free
code,
> captchas, 2FA, or gatekeepers - those are all part of the web culture
This is a very interesting point.
I will show it to someone who might write about it.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https:
t problem alike. But
there are various manners of treatment that we could apply to them
all. This point is important, and we should make that clear to the
reader.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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dging repos does not imply that
we try to dictate to everyone what they can do.
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erse would want to see. That way we could look at
this question more clearly.
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s, such as encouraging bad practices.
I think the current classification of these two is correct, but we
should talk about the gravity of the B2 failure in a way that clearly
makes this distinction.
And yes, we should say that about each site that fails B2. Perhaps we
should say that
o heed our adcice, they ca do whatever they
like. If they disagree with some critera, they don't need our
explicit permission to disregard those.
However, for those that want to heed our advice, we sh0uld give them
the same advice we give each other.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallma
about this.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
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r needed...?
Let's not adopt the term "pre-standard". It presumes that a
disagreement with POSIX stanrdads can only occur because someone has
not yet changed to "obey" the standard. Thay may be the case,
nowadays, but let's not presume it is true without exception.
--
uld you state that in a more unambiguous way?
Does "VLA" mean "variable length arrat"?
Whatever feature it means, what specificallky is the way you suggest
handling it, and why?
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
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ces on the new release.
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done that.
However, I wouldn't okject to an A+ criterion of "no nonfree JS at all
in the pages" or "no JS at all in the pages."
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
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d
post links to?
Even better, to move it to a more fredeom-respecting repository.
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d
post links to?
Even better, to move it to a more fredeom-respecting repository.
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
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directory.)
Are the GCC developers discussing these questions? If not, please
send them a bug report about this so they start doing so.
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e with
anything useful. What do others thing of this question?
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
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e with
anything useful. What do others thing of this question?
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
directory.)
Are the GCC developers discussing these questions? If not, please
send them a bug report about this so they start doing so.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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ink it would be good to make clear and concrete recommendations.
But ther ecan be more than one option of policy that a package's
maintainers could choose to follow.
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e to finish pending patch
reviews before making any sort of release. That might be a good
compromise between the strictest approach (see above)
and no rule about this specific point.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Sof
those
> blessed by the user.
Could you make that last part more precise and clear>
> > What is an "OS package manager"?
> A popular OS package manager is Debian 'apt'
Thanks, now I know what you meant.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GN
those
> blessed by the user.
Could you make that last part more precise and clear>
> > What is an "OS package manager"?
> A popular OS package manager is Debian 'apt'
Thanks, now I know what you meant.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GN
e proposed
changes in make disclean and may propose changes in our coding
standards.
When considering any such change, we still should consider the question:
will this actually prevent cracks, or will it rather give crackers
an additional way to check that their activities can't be detected.
-
e proposed
changes in make disclean and may propose changes in our coding
standards.
When considering any such change, we still should consider the question:
will this actually prevent cracks, or will it rather give crackers
an additional way to check that their activities can't be detected.
-
, or increased
the likelihood of spotting it. For instance, checking m4
files against standard sources. and maybe some others.
So let's not discard completely the idea of preventing
the XZ crack.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder,
, or increased
the likelihood of spotting it. For instance, checking m4
files against standard sources. and maybe some others.
So let's not discard completely the idea of preventing
the XZ crack.
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder,
rom gnulib and
> > compared to the copy in gnulib, the nonempty diff would have been
> > suspicious.
I have a hunch that some effort is needed to do that comparison, but
that it is feasible to write a script to do it could make it easy.
Is that so?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https:
rom gnulib and
> > compared to the copy in gnulib, the nonempty diff would have been
> > suspicious.
I have a hunch that some effort is needed to do that comparison, but
that it is feasible to write a script to do it could make it easy.
Is that so?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https:
think
this subissue pertains directly to that.
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please explain concretely what that means? Does it mean
that, for some purpose, it supports _only_ the xz compression format?
I removed autom...@gnu.org from this message because I don't think
this subissue pertains directly to that.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of
think
this subissue pertains directly to that.
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
please explain concretely what that means? Does it mean
that, for some purpose, it supports _only_ the xz compression format?
I removed autom...@gnu.org from this message because I don't think
this subissue pertains directly to that.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of
ting -- I don't know why it uses these compression liraries.
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ting -- I don't know why it uses these compression liraries.
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sts,
> instead of source or scripts to generate that data. In this case, that
> binary data was used to smuggle in heavily obfuscated object code.
If this is the crucial point, we could put in the coding standards
(or the maintainers' guide) not to do this.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://sta
sts,
> instead of source or scripts to generate that data. In this case, that
> binary data was used to smuggle in heavily obfuscated object code.
If this is the crucial point, we could put in the coding standards
(or the maintainers' guide) not to do this.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://sta
he packager would need to specify another key and use that to sign
the files perse modifies. Or maybe, to sign all the files in the
distribution.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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he packager would need to specify another key and use that to sign
the files perse modifies. Or maybe, to sign all the files in the
distribution.
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Just as long as we don't insist on perfect or nothing.
Because, as you said, no change in tools could protect perfectly
against this soft of devious sabotage.
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation
toconf and automake, what tools are involved here?
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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Just as long as we don't insist on perfect or nothing.
Because, as you said, no change in tools could protect perfectly
against this soft of devious sabotage.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation
toconf and automake, what tools are involved here?
--
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
y slow
because many packages need to be changed.
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y slow
because many packages need to be changed.
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
, but I want to
make sure the GNU Project is working on it.
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ct the bogus tar ball sooner? Or would it
have been likely to help the cracker be more careful about avoiding
such signs? Would they balance out?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
I
ct the bogus tar ball sooner? Or would it
have been likely to help the cracker be more careful about avoiding
such signs? Would they balance out?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
I
Congratulations on the new release.
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rification can be done with LibreJS.
That avoids the need for various humans to "human-verify" it.
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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gt; do we keep things progressing so they get completed?
For reviews of repo sites, we use the list repo-criteria-discuss@gnu.org.
I don't know of any other way, but it seems to be enough. We're waiting
for people to finish the work of evaluating codeberg.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallm
the configuration of the system excluded). Those probably
>belong in @file{$(localstatedir)}.
I was already editing the file, so I checked it in.
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
Thanks.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU
{$(localstatedir)}.
--
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
WHat you've done seems ok. Thanks.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org
Indeed, I now see it is not listed. So there is nothing to do there.
I thought it was listed.
The thing to say them _would have been_ to explain the situation with Vagrant
so that they could fix the directory not to describe it as free.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the
o because they don't allow putting links in the book
> description, or there might be some restrictions as far as I know.
Who are "they"?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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ation of Vagrant?
We need to stop linking to the place that distributes nonfree versions
of Vagrant.
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
like a reasonable plan.
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https://github.com/metalinjection/viagrunts/commits/main/ has commits
> from https://github.com/hashicorp/vagrant newer that 2023-08-10.
Can you report these problems to people who might fix them?
--
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from later Vagrant versions. But I don't know where to look for people
to do that job.
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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;
> Is this text still appropriate?
Not enirely. I will look at it.
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people how to handle parts of translations,
patches, and translations we have not yet approved.
Don't worry about it for now -- we will do it when needed,
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://f
the subdirectories of Junit vary from day to day?
Does it vary from machine to machine? That seems surprising to me.
--
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know how easy it is to build from source. And when they do that
> they often forget to also package the source code.
Are you saying that
only nonfree distros include Java programs
and they do so by treating them as nonfree software
even if in fact they are free?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (htt
nd Org format is now capable of doing this, I
will consider that good news.
> Another question is that having native Org mode constructs for
> manual-specific markup would make things less verbose and ad-hoc.
To handle GNU manuals using Org format would not require a feature
like that.
--
-free program, because doing so promotes surrender of
freedom.
See section References in the GNU Coding Standards.
--
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ago I raised this idea, but nobody wanted to work on it.
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the EFF's "best practices" are wise, as far as they go,
for avoiding other kinds of mistreatment.
I will look.
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ugh. "CC BY-SA 4.0" is answer enough.
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mplement the option
to treat all JS scripts as "nontrivial".
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rg never evaluates any code automatically
> without user explicitly asking for it.
I understand now. I agree, that is not an issue for this specific point.
--
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aid that there are
> security issues and that they are known.
Could you plesae post a pointer to a desciption of them?
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determines whether we COULD use a book.
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the @samp{'} character (single quote) in the character
constant, @dfn{escape} it with a backslash (@samp{\}). This character
constant looks like @code{'\''}. The backslash character here
Is there a newer Texinfo release which fixes this?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief
isable
> > librejs. Do you or anyone else know what this is about? I'm also cc'ing
> > rms since the issue description says "Request by RMS".
Icecat allows the user to enable or disable any extension
that is loaded. That can be used to disable LibreJS.
--
Dr Richard Stallman
ived or fetched Org
> files must be treated with some precautions, but it is another story.
I was not aware of this issue. Let's look at it concretely now so we
can determine what its implications are. Have people already written
a list of these precautions? If so, I'd like to see i
want to send files in Org format
and why would it be useful to formally label them?
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ure
> that the files are properly reviewed before sending them to
> emacs-devel (see above).
That is not specific, so it won't be helpful.
What constiutues proper review?
Is that stated earlier in the document? (I can't find the whole document.)
If so, maybe there is no problem.
--
Dr Richard
to be updated or otherwise fixed, or even
> bugs in Emacs. If you do not intend to provide fixes right away,
> please file a bug report promptly so someone can fix it soon.
> See the 'Bugs' section in the Emacs manual.
> ---
> Is that what you had in mind?
Yes.
--
iles*, or (2) isn't necessary, so that the function works
> properly even if JavaScript is disabled in the browser.
I think this is a good change. Does anyone argue against it?
How about if we copy the current C0.0 into level B?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNU
hat is the point.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
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f
the web site use PO to help them do it. The master version of each
page is in English and does not have PO markup; however, the
translators maintain a PO-annotated version of each page.
--
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Fou
/philosophy/the-moral-and-the-legal.html. It's
about how the legal level of an issue relates to the moral level,
particularly for issues about nonfree software.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https
been possible to build GCC from source without a working
C compiler. We can't hope to "fix" that, so let's not worry about it.
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terms of use
Clearly, packagin Mono would require checkin all this.
I don't think we need to discuss this further here and now.
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Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of
e.
https://gnu.org/malware/ and other things we have published
could be a good start towards this.
We can work on adding whatever we find to be missing.
But we must avoid saying that our list is complete so any behavior not
listed is good. We should say only that "as of now we don't know of
other
Mono on GNU/Linux?
If so, that could give us more reason to care about Mono on GNU/Linux
than we had in the past.
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Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
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long as that feature is inactive by default, and users who activate
it can specify specifically who it talks to and control what topics it
talks about, we don't object.
--
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Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
ssing has not been
entirely clarified. I got the idea, a few days ago, that we were
talking about managing development and release of translations of GNU
manuals. You seem to be bringing up a different issue.
Both issues are useful but we had better not mix them up.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (
d be good if they used different kinds of build mechanisms
so a volunteer could have a choice of what problem to work on.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Fam
quot;, that would imply it is not free software. I
get the impression you mean something other than that, but what
exactly does it mean?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
etween "is free" (verified at the time of review) for level C and
> satisfies-LibreJS for level B
Th enext step is to see what other people have to say about it.
I'm the one who makes the decision but other people's arguments will
affect my conclusions.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (h
go to
> Codeberg docs instead of the choosealicense website. Unfortunately,
> these fixes did not resolve the LibreJS flagging.
Can someone figure out why not?
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https:
hanges much the possibility of
> having only online info manuals.
Those words are alarming but vague. They seem to say that some
problems are impossible to prevent, but I can't tell what problems you
mean.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://g
ter of voting, but that could be a good idea.
"Satisfies LibreJS" could go in level B, leaving "is free" in level C.
> Is there a chance that the simple fix to the licenses URL link will
> address issues with LibreJS?
Try it and see!
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://
ld not "give them
credit for good intentions".
But it is good to give them helpful feedback and encouragement in
getting it right. We should tell them we're eager for them to
properly implement those good intentions.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of
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