Apple-Crop: brown rot on nectarines
We seem to have a brown rot problem in our JuneGlo nectarines. Has anyone had any experience in going in and cutting out the terminal growth tips which have an infected fruit and shows dieback looking like fireblight on apples? Also, does the brown rot fungus get into the wood? Frank Carlson Carlson Orchards, Inc. Harvard, MA. 01451
Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic
Organic is still the quick and easy approach for lots of people who worry about food safety issues, but there's some interesting stuff appearing in the mass media. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/27/opinion/27alexander.html?_r=1 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/weekinreview/22bittman.html On Jul 21, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Smith, Tim wrote: This reporter has a fresh outlook. http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-calcook1-2009jul01,0,2885942.story Timothy J. Smith WSU Extension
Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic
I have a mixed reaction to this article. This article almost reads as if it says the world isn't black and white, so forget organics. That seems rather short sighted. The truth is that organic fruits and veggies are not only better for your health, but they're also better for the environment. The organic pesticides have a much shorter half-life. The truth is also that generally, organic fruits and vegetables have better flavor. Walk into a safeway and try it out on the apples, it never fails. But things aren't so easy at farmers markets and roadside fruit stands. It's also true that there are small scale non-organic farmers that really grow outstanding fruits, and me, personally, even though I am a die-hard organic fruit buyer, I do lower my standards to accommodate them. I will not walk away from delicious moorpark apricots if they're not certified organic, We have many local growers that are not certified, but make an extra effort to use as little pesticide as possible, and they should not be punished by the consumer. My orchard also has the sandy nutrient poor soil that the article uses as an example, and yes, even though I try to be organic on the pesticides, I complement organic manure and fish emulsion with ammonium nitrate and potassium nitrate whenever a tree shows major nitrogen deficiencies. I don't sell my produce, but if I did, I'd probably give up the chemical fertilizer because organic fruit commends a higher price. With that being said, I will walk away from the tasteless non-organic fruits and vegetables at the grocery store. They're disgusting, might as well sell cardboard. But when I go to a health food store that sells organic produce, the difference is striking: the organic produce is so much better it's not even in the same league. So yes, there it is definitely true that organic tastes way better! So just because the world isn't black and white, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. it's not an either/or situation, organic is in fact better, but it's also about making exceptions. Rules about what to do or not to do don't serve anyone well. Humans are given brains for a reason: to use them and not be on automatic pilot operating by some rules like a computer program: consumers need to open their eyes, and make decisions case by case, especially at the farmer's market, because every vendor, every person, and every day is unique. Here in the West, organic farming isn't really so hard. But on the East coast, there are so many bugs that it makes it almost impractical to be organic lest the consumer is willing to eat ugly looking fruit. In my opinion, therein lies the problem: we are turning into a plastic society, everything has to be antiseptic and perfect looking. And that's the main reason I probably will never sell any of my fruit from my 200 tree orchard. I know people who threw in the towel because they got so fed up to see people walk away from incredibly good tasting but not perfect looking fruit to buy the bland fruits just because they're big and pretty. To me, an oddly shaped, heavily ribbed, russeted apple is a delight to the eyes, and I can't wait to sink my teeth into it. Another great example: lately, I've been eating a nice crop of Espagne pears, a French Summer pear that blets like a medlar, a.k.a. turns brown and mushy when ripe, but the brown mush is an incredible delight to the senses, like pie filling, like a nectar of the Gods, a cross in between a medjool date and a pear. Do you think I can easily find an American out there who'd be willing to eat that? Nope, they prefer their tasteless cardboardy bartlett pears, except maybe the chefs are upscale restaurants, who serve a more open minded clientele. So let the people who are on automatic pilot go and buy their produce at safeway, the rest of us can go and delight in our ugly, russeted, scabby but scromtuously delicious fruit, organic is prefferable, especially if you don't care what the fruit looks like, but go ahead and cheat a little. :) From: Smith, Tim smit...@wsu.edu To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:53:14 AM Subject: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic This reporter has a fresh outlook. http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-calcook1-2009jul01,0,2885942.story Timothy J. Smith WSU Extension
Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic
Dare I add this. What the article lacks is what the organic movement hopes the public never learns, and that is the fact that the movement has deliberately mislead, often times outright lied to the public to forward its financial goals. The public overwhelmingly believes that organic means either not sprayed, not sprayed with pesticides , not sprayed with toxic pesticides or not sprayed with anything toxic. Or that because it is natural, it is benign. The organic industry has done nothing to right this misconception. I can't say that I blame them. Certainly if the truth were known, the advantage would be lost. Imagine if the average Joe or Mary spent a day pruning, or thinning in an orchard sprayed 2 days ago with sulfur or better yet, lime sulfur. Perhaps a reporter or two should be encouraged to do so. Pot stirred. Mo Tougas Tougas Family Farm Northborough, MA On Jul 21, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Dave Rosenberger wrote: Sorry, Alex, but all conventional pesticides produced in the past three decades have a MUCH shorter half-life than copper which is approved for organic. Also, I agree that organic farming is much easier in desert climates. However, it appears to me that western organic growers (and conventional farmers as well) have been and continue to be largely dependent on federally subsidized and/or state-funded water systems. The water management systems in western irrigated agriculture may have had less environmental impact that the wide- spread use of DDT from the 1940's through the 1960's, but it would be interesting to know the comparative environmental costs of the two systems. Pesticides that were developed in the past two decades have relatively short residual life-spans or half-lives. The water management systems used to produce the vast amounts of food that come from western irrigated farmland continue to drain water flows that formerly maintained wild salmon populations and other aspects of healthy stream ecology. So which system is ultimately more damaging if the ideal is to maintain healthy natural systems? Flavor comparisons are very difficult because everyone's preferences are different. I certainly agree that produce in chain-store retail outlets often lacks flavor, but in my opinion, that fact has little to do with organic vs. non-organic. It has a lot more to do with which cultivars and selections will hold up to our long-distance and impersonal food handling systems. Finally, I'll repeat my two main arguments against organic: First, lists of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable for organic production have evolved from a mish-mash of nonscientific tradition and folklore with little or no scientific basis for those decisions. Second, organic foods generally are not available to those in the lower socio-economic quadrant of our society because it costs too much. The constraints on organic agriculture (perhaps with the exception of corporate farms in desert climates) almost guarantee that organic food will be more expensive because production costs are higher and/or productivity per acre is lower. (I know that higher cost and/or lower productivity is not always the case for organic ag, but it is still largely true. Therefore, don't bother replying with the examples of the exceptions!) Everyone has a right to pay more for the food of their choice if they can afford it, just as everyone has a right to drive a gas- guzzling Hummer if they can afford that. However, I detect similar levels of socio-economic arrogance and an attitude of I don't want to know the truth about real environmental costs among those who swear by organic foods and those who drive Hummers. I'll support everyone's right to choose, but I object when proponents of organic foods and/or Hummers suggest that the whole world would be better if we all subscribed to those activities. I have a mixed reaction to this article. This article almost reads as if it says the world isn't black and white, so forget organics. That seems rather short sighted. The truth is that organic fruits and veggies are not only better for your health, but they're also better for the environment. The organic pesticides have a much shorter half-life. The truth is also that generally, organic fruits and vegetables have better flavor. Walk into a safeway and try it out on the apples, it never fails. But things aren't so easy at farmers markets and roadside fruit stands. It's also true that there are small scale non-organic farmers that really grow outstanding fruits, and me, personally, even though I am a die-hard organic fruit buyer, I do lower my standards to accommodate them. I will not walk away from delicious moorpark apricots if they're not certified organic, We have many local growers that are not certified, but make an extra effort to use as little pesticide as possible,
Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic
Nonsense! Copper concerns me, but what is the harm of lime sulfur? Are you telling me I should stop going to my favorite sulfur hot Springs which are loaded with the stuff? Aside of the rotten egg smell, I don't see the harm with lime sulfur. I use this stuff all the time, it has not harmed me, it's actually good for the skin if diluted properly. Lime sulfur is used for pets too, takes care of parasites. http://www.nextag.com/lime-sulfur-dip/compare-html Keep it out of your eyes and don't drink it, and you will be fine. Different forms of sulfides are also used in dandruff shampoos. I would not take a bath in any water with dissolved inorganic pesticides, but lime sulfur, I'd put that in my jacuzzi to simulate the hot Springs. BTW, here in the West, fighting inorganic pesticide use is old hat, the fringe has moved on to find new causes and is now fighting the organic pesticides. So maybe you guys could all chime in and pretty soon we won't be able to use anything. From: Mo Tougas m...@tougasfarm.com To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 3:36:49 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic Dare I add this. What the article lacks is what the organic movement hopes the public never learns, and that is the fact that the movement has deliberately mislead, often times outright lied to the public to forward its financial goals. The public overwhelmingly believes that organic means either not sprayed, not sprayed with pesticides , not sprayed with toxic pesticides or not sprayed with anything toxic. Or that because it is natural, it is benign. The organic industry has done nothing to right this misconception. I can't say that I blame them. Certainly if the truth were known, the advantage would be lost. Imagine if the average Joe or Mary spent a day pruning, or thinning in an orchard sprayed 2 days ago with sulfur or better yet, lime sulfur. Perhaps a reporter or two should be encouraged to do so. Pot stirred. Mo Tougas Tougas Family Farm Northborough, MA On Jul 21, 2009, at 5:06 PM, Dave Rosenberger wrote: Sorry, Alex, but all conventional pesticides produced in the past three decades have a MUCH shorter half-life than copper which is approved for organic. Also, I agree that organic farming is much easier in desert climates. However, it appears to me that western organic growers (and conventional farmers as well) have been and continue to be largely dependent on federally subsidized and/or state-funded water systems. The water management systems in western irrigated agriculture may have had less environmental impact that the wide-spread use of DDT from the 1940's through the 1960's, but it would be interesting to know the comparative environmental costs of the two systems. Pesticides that were developed in the past two decades have relatively short residual life-spans or half-lives. The water management systems used to produce the vast amounts of food that come from western irrigated farmland continue to drain water flows that formerly maintained wild salmon populations and other aspects of healthy stream ecology. So which system is ultimately more damaging if the ideal is to maintain healthy natural systems? Flavor comparisons are very difficult because everyone's preferences are different. I certainly agree that produce in chain-store retail outlets often lacks flavor, but in my opinion, that fact has little to do with organic vs. non-organic. It has a lot more to do with which cultivars and selections will hold up to our long-distance and impersonal food handling systems. Finally, I'll repeat my two main arguments against organic: First, lists of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable for organic production have evolved from a mish-mash of nonscientific tradition and folklore with little or no scientific basis for those decisions. Second, organic foods generally are not available to those in the lower socio-economic quadrant of our society because it costs too much. The constraints on organic agriculture (perhaps with the exception of corporate farms in desert climates) almost guarantee that organic food will be more expensive because production costs are higher and/or productivity per acre is lower. (I know that higher cost and/or lower productivity is not always the case for organic ag, but it is still largely true. Therefore, don't bother replying with the examples of the exceptions!) Everyone has a right to pay more for the food of their choice if they can afford it, just as everyone has a right to drive a gas-guzzling Hummer if they can afford that. However, I detect similar levels of socio-economic arrogance and an attitude of I don't want to know the truth about real environmental costs among those who swear by organic foods and those who drive Hummers. I'll support everyone's right to choose, but I object when proponents of
Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic
Effect of sulfur, lime sulfur on predators Childers, C. C., Villanueva, R., Aguilar, H., Chewning, R., and Michaud, J. P. 2001. Comparative residual toxicities of pesticides to the predator Agistemus industani (Acari: Stigmaeidae) on citrus in Florida. Experimental and Applied Acarology. 25:461-474 Holb IJ, DeJong PF and Heijne B (200a) Efficacy and phytotoxicity of lime sulfur in organic apple production. Annals of Applied Biology 142: 225–233. Prischmann, D. A., James, D. G., Wright, L. C., Teneyck, R. D., and Snyder, W. E. 2005. Effects of chlorpyrifos and sulfur on spider mites (Acari: Tetranychidae) and their natural enemies. Biological Control. 33:324-334 Teodoro, A. V., Fadini, M. A. M., Lemos, W., Guedes, R. N. C., and Pallini, A. 2005. Lethal and sub-lethal selectivity of fenbutatin oxide and sulfur to the predator Iphiseiodes zuluagai (Acari: Phytoseiidae) and its prey, Oligonychus ilicis (Acari: Tetranychidae), in Brazilian coffee plantations. Experimental and Applied Acarology. 36:61-70 and effect of copper on environment... Avery, A. 2006. The Truth About Organic Foods. 1er ed. Henderson Communications, L.L.C. Avery, D. T., and Institute, C. F. G. F. I. (. 2001. Nature's Toxic Tools: The Organic Myth of Pesticide-free Farming. Hudson Institute. Eijsackers, H., Beneke, P., Maboeta, M., Louw, J. P. E., and Reinecke, A. J. 2005. The implications of copper fungicide usage in vineyards for earthworm activity and resulting sustainable soil quality. Ecotoxicol Environ Saf. 62:99-111 Available at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15978295 [Accessed December 2, 2008]. Filser, J., Fromm, H., Nagel, R., and Winter, K. 1995. Effects of previous intensive agricultural management on microorganisms and the biodiversity of soil fauna. Plant and Soil. 170:123-129 Available at: http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/BF02183060 [Accessed December 3, 2008]. Flores-Velez, L. M., Ducaroir, J., Jaunet, A. M., and Robert, M. 1996. Study of the distribution of copper in an acid sandy vineyard soil by three different methods. European Journal of Soil Science. 47:523-532 Friis, K., Damgaard, C., and Holmstrup, M. 2004. Sublethal soil copper concentrations increase mortality in the earthworm Aporrectodea caliginosa during drought. Ecotoxicology and Environmental Safety. 57:65-73 Jamar, L., Aubinet, M., Fievez, T., Magein, H., and Lateur, M. Soil microbial activity and earthworm abundance in orchards under conventional and organic growth management systems. Ma, W. C. 1984. Sublethal toxic effects of copper on growth, reproduction and litter breakdown activity in the earthworm Lumbricus rubellus, with observations on the influence of temperature and soil pH. ENVIRON. POLLUT.(A ECOL. BIOL.). 33:207-219 Merrington, G., Rogers, S. L., and Van Zwieten, L. 2002. The potential impact of long-term copper fungicide usage on soil microbial biomass and microbial activity in an avocado orchard. Australian Journal of Soil Research. 40:749-759 Neuhauser, E. F., Loehr, R. C., Milligan, D. L., and Malecki, M. R. 1985. Toxicity of metals to the earthworm Eisenia fetida. Biology and Fertility of Soils. 1:149-152 Available at: http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/BF00301782 [Accessed December 3, 2008]. Paoletti, M. G., Sommaggio, D., Favretto, M. R., Petruzzelli, G., Pezzarossa, B., and Barbafieri, M. 1998. Earthworms as useful bioindicators of agroecosystem sustainability in orchards and vineyards with different inputs. Applied Soil Ecology. 10:137-150 Tamm, L., Häseli, A., Fuchs, J. G., Weibel, F. P., and Wyss, E. 2002. Organic fruit production in humid climates of Europe: bottlenecks and new approaches in disease and pest control. In XXVI International Horticultural Congress: Sustainability of Horticultural Systems in the 21st Century 638, ISHS, p. 333-339. Van Rhee, J. A. 1977. Effects of soil pollution on earthworms. Pedobiologia. 17:201–208 On 21-Jul-2009, at 7:31 PM, Axel Kratel wrote: Nonsense! Copper concerns me, but what is the harm of lime sulfur? Are you telling me I should stop going to my favorite sulfur hot Springs which are loaded with the stuff? Aside of the rotten egg smell, I don't see the harm with lime sulfur. I use this stuff all the time, it has not harmed me, it's actually good for the skin if diluted properly. Lime sulfur is used for pets too, takes care of parasites. http://www.nextag.com/lime-sulfur-dip/compare-html Keep it out of your eyes and don't drink it, and you will be fine. Different forms of sulfides are also used in dandruff shampoos. I would not take a bath in any water with dissolved inorganic pesticides, but lime sulfur, I'd put that in my jacuzzi to simulate the hot Springs. BTW, here in the West, fighting inorganic pesticide use is old hat, the fringe has moved on to find new causes and is now fighting the organic pesticides. So maybe you guys could all chime in and pretty soon we
Apple-Crop: Copper data
I don't know if we will run out of manure, but stirring it is fun: Unlike most other agricultural chemicals, a significant weight of evidence exists that copper based fungicides impact on a wide range of soil biota. low Cu concentrations influence a number of soil processes including microbial activity, earthworm activity and bioturbation. Copper residues remain indefinitely, and will continue to influence the health of the soil. » L. Van-Zwieten, “Review of impacts on soil biota caused by copper residues from fungicide application.” Copper sulfate is very toxic to fish. toxic to aquatic invertebrates, such as crab, shrimp and oysters. Most animal life in soil, including large earthworms, have been eliminated by the extensive use of copper-containing fungicides in orchards pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper- sulfate-ext.html the order of toxicity, from most toxic to least toxic, was Cu Zn Ni Cd Pb. » E.F. Neuhauser, R.C. Loehr, D.L. Milligan, et M.R. Malecki, “Toxicity of metals to the earthworm Eisenia fetida,” Biology and Fertility of Soils, vol. 1, Nov. 1985, pp. 149-152. (Yes, copper is more toxix than... Lead and Cadmium) corrosive to the skin and eyes. It is readily absorbed through the skin and can produce a burning pain, along with the same severe symptoms of poisoning from ingestion. « liver disease after 3 to 15 years of exposure. » Do you think this is from a chemical pesticide? Think again = it's from the copper sulfate page. « 10 mg/kg of copper sulfate caused endocrine tumors in chickens» pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/carbaryl-dicrotophos/copper- sulfate-ext.html J.C. Pimentel et F. Marques, “Vineyard sprayer's lung': a new occupational disease,” Thorax, vol. 24, 1969, p. 678. (Yes, CANCER. From a nice, healthy, natural organic pesticide) Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Phytopathologiste Laboratoire de production fruitière intégrée Institut de recherche et de développement en agroenvironnement 335, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Case postale 24 Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P8 Tél. bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 224 Tél. laboratoire: 450 653-7368 poste 229 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275 Autre: 802-659-4282 Télécopie: 450 653-1927 Verger du parc national du Mont-Saint-Bruno 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Case postale 24 Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P8 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375 Courriel: vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Site Internet: www.irda.qc.ca Avez-vous réellement besoin d'imprimer ce courriel? Si oui, imprimez- le recto-verso! AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ Ce message peut contenir de l'information de nature privilégiée et confidentielle. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé ou croyez l'avoir reçu par erreur, nous vous saurions gré d'en aviser l'émetteur. Si ce message vous a été transmis par erreur, veuillez le détruire sans en communiquer le contenu à d'autres personnes ou le reproduire.
