Re: [Apple-Crop] To head, or not to head: that is the tall spindle question.

[Michael Vaughn]

Doug,

I'm in my 10th yr. of Tall spindle.  I planted 1600 over two years and had
many of the same "problems" you describe with Feathers.  Many of my early
trees were practically devoid of branches. I stayed the course over yrs.3 &
4 allowing the trees to grow to the 10' height.  This worked perfectly by
yr 4 I produced a nice crop yr. 5 yielded over 22ton of apples.
Then, I started planting additional varieties in 80 to 100 tree blocks and
used Maxcell in multiple doses for two years where the feathers were thin.
It does seem to work.

However, some varieties have a penchant for growing up and not out leaving
3 & 4 ft sections of spindle with no branching.
I was given a study for "Northern Spey" that suggested making thin cuts in
early April in trunks around  suspected budding locations.  That gave us
some new growth and began to fill in nicely after two more years.

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Doug Nelson <
doug.nel...@nelsonmultimedia.com> wrote:

> Forgot to mention the picture I have attached is an example of one of
> these poorly feather trees. My wires are two feet apart so you can see that
> this tree is almost seven foot tall.
>
> On Jul 3, 2017 4:22 PM, Doug Nelson 
> wrote:
>
> I'm in my second year of growing apples. This year we planted 5000 apple
> trees tall spindle style. These will be used for upick.
>
> The nursery I bought from gave me about a thousand terrible trees with
> almost no feathers.
>
> I have sprayed heavily with Maxell to encourage lateral bud growth. Has
> not work that well.
>
> My Orchard is located right next to one of the Chicagolands largest
> commercial tree nurseries. The field manager of the nursery recently
> stopped by and told me he would encourage lateral growth by heading all of
> these poorly feathered trees.
>
> I know the rule with tall spindle is generally you never had the tree, but
> I think the assumption  is that you have a lot of feathers.
>
> Has anyone ever headed poorly feather trees to encourage lateral growth?
> What were your results?
>
>
>
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>
>


-- 
Michael D. Vaughn
Owner / Manager
Pie-In-the-Sky Orchards
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Re: [Apple-Crop] To head, or not to head: that is the tall spindle question.

[maurice tougas]

By the way

HI TERRANCE! Nice to hear from you. Is this your way of an announcement or
something? Missed you.

Mo

On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 5:11 AM, maurice tougas 
wrote:

> Doug
> We make whips work as well as feathered trees by growing the tree strongly
> the first couple years. Don't head, get them to 10' asap.I've found they
> fill in fine over the next two or three years. Whips won't produce as
> quickly as well feathered though. At times we are sold "feathered" trees
> which are actually "branched" trees that need to have branches removed so
> as to allow tree to gain height and allow for feather development. The only
> things I head, or pinch,  are feathers in top one third of tree to reduce
> auxin production and encourage more feathers below. Maxcel may help, but
> frankly I've done a couple of controlled trials and after year three can't
> find treated trees.
>
> Mo Tougas
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Doug Nelson  com> wrote:
>
>> Forgot to mention the picture I have attached is an example of one of
>> these poorly feather trees. My wires are two feet apart so you can see that
>> this tree is almost seven foot tall.
>>
>> On Jul 3, 2017 4:22 PM, Doug Nelson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm in my second year of growing apples. This year we planted 5000 apple
>> trees tall spindle style. These will be used for upick.
>>
>> The nursery I bought from gave me about a thousand terrible trees with
>> almost no feathers.
>>
>> I have sprayed heavily with Maxell to encourage lateral bud growth. Has
>> not work that well.
>>
>> My Orchard is located right next to one of the Chicagolands largest
>> commercial tree nurseries. The field manager of the nursery recently
>> stopped by and told me he would encourage lateral growth by heading all of
>> these poorly feathered trees.
>>
>> I know the rule with tall spindle is generally you never had the tree,
>> but I think the assumption  is that you have a lot of feathers.
>>
>> Has anyone ever headed poorly feather trees to encourage lateral growth?
>> What were your results?
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> apple-crop mailing list
>> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
>> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Maurice Tougas
> Tougas Family Farm
> Northborough,MA 01532
> 508-450-0844 <(508)%20450-0844>
>



-- 
Maurice Tougas
Tougas Family Farm
Northborough,MA 01532
508-450-0844
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Re: [Apple-Crop] To head, or not to head: that is the tall spindle question.

[maurice tougas]

Doug
We make whips work as well as feathered trees by growing the tree strongly
the first couple years. Don't head, get them to 10' asap.I've found they
fill in fine over the next two or three years. Whips won't produce as
quickly as well feathered though. At times we are sold "feathered" trees
which are actually "branched" trees that need to have branches removed so
as to allow tree to gain height and allow for feather development. The only
things I head, or pinch,  are feathers in top one third of tree to reduce
auxin production and encourage more feathers below. Maxcel may help, but
frankly I've done a couple of controlled trials and after year three can't
find treated trees.

Mo Tougas


On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 5:25 PM, Doug Nelson <
doug.nel...@nelsonmultimedia.com> wrote:

> Forgot to mention the picture I have attached is an example of one of
> these poorly feather trees. My wires are two feet apart so you can see that
> this tree is almost seven foot tall.
>
> On Jul 3, 2017 4:22 PM, Doug Nelson 
> wrote:
>
> I'm in my second year of growing apples. This year we planted 5000 apple
> trees tall spindle style. These will be used for upick.
>
> The nursery I bought from gave me about a thousand terrible trees with
> almost no feathers.
>
> I have sprayed heavily with Maxell to encourage lateral bud growth. Has
> not work that well.
>
> My Orchard is located right next to one of the Chicagolands largest
> commercial tree nurseries. The field manager of the nursery recently
> stopped by and told me he would encourage lateral growth by heading all of
> these poorly feathered trees.
>
> I know the rule with tall spindle is generally you never had the tree, but
> I think the assumption  is that you have a lot of feathers.
>
> Has anyone ever headed poorly feather trees to encourage lateral growth?
> What were your results?
>
>
>
> ___
> apple-crop mailing list
> apple-crop@virtualorchard.com
> http://virtualorchard.com/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
>
>


-- 
Maurice Tougas
Tougas Family Farm
Northborough,MA 01532
508-450-0844
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Re: [Apple-Crop] To head, or not to head: that is the tall spindle question.

[Terence Lee Robinson]

It is too late to head the trees back now, plus it is counter productive to 
head Tall Spindle trees.  The whole point of the tall spindle to develop a tall 
and narrow tree with weak laterals not strong laterals.   If you head them back 
you get strong lateral branches and trees with “scaffold” branches that grow 
too strongly for the 3 foot inrow spacing of the tall spindle. The lateral 
branches will naturally fill in over the first few years but with weak lateral 
branches instead of “scaffolds”.  Where trees did not have enough feathers at 
planting we have had good success with a spray 500-1000 ppm of Maxcel (This is 
5-10X the rate used for thinning) at 10-14 days after planting.  It works 
except when excessively cool in the spring.  Where there were not enough 
branches from the nursery or from the Maxcel after planting then we “notch” and 
paint or spray Maxcel anytime from  green tip to pink in year 2.

Terence Robinson
Dept. of Horticulture
Cornell University


From: apple-crop 
>
 on behalf of "kuffelcr...@kuffelcreek.com" 
>
Reply-To: Apple-Crop discussion list 
>
Date: Monday, July 3, 2017 at 8:31 PM
To: Apple-Crop discussion list 
>
Subject: Re: [Apple-Crop] To head, or not to head: that is the tall spindle 
question.

In our apple orchards in the tropics the endless season would result in
whips 12'+ tall if we didn't intervene.

I'd cut them back to 5' tall and notch above every bud to encourage
lateral branching; this should have been done in April when they just
started to push. I'd probably still do this now, though I'm open to hearing
from others why you shouldn't.

Kevin Hauser
Kuffel Creek Apple Nursery
Riverside, California
Nakifuma, Uganda


On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 16:25:04 -0500, Doug Nelson
> 
wrote:
Forgot to mention the picture I have attached is an example of one of
these
poorly feather trees. My wires are two feet apart so you can see that
this
tree is almost seven foot tall.
On Jul 3, 2017 4:22 PM, Doug Nelson 
>
wrote:
I'm in my second year of growing apples. This year we planted 5000 apple
trees tall spindle style. These will be used for upick.
The nursery I bought from gave me about a thousand terrible trees with
almost no feathers.
I have sprayed heavily with Maxell to encourage lateral bud growth. Has
not
work that well.
My Orchard is located right next to one of the Chicagolands largest
commercial tree nurseries. The field manager of the nursery recently
stopped by and told me he would encourage lateral growth by heading all
of
these poorly feathered trees.
I know the rule with tall spindle is generally you never had the tree,
but
I think the assumption  is that you have a lot of feathers.
Has anyone ever headed poorly feather trees to encourage lateral growth?
What were your results?
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Re: [Apple-Crop] To head, or not to head: that is the tall spindle question.

[kuffelcreek]

In our apple orchards in the tropics the endless season would result in
whips 12'+ tall if we didn't intervene.  

I'd cut them back to 5' tall and notch above every bud to encourage
lateral branching; this should have been done in April when they just
started to push. I'd probably still do this now, though I'm open to hearing
from others why you shouldn't.

Kevin Hauser
Kuffel Creek Apple Nursery
Riverside, California 
Nakifuma, Uganda


 On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 16:25:04 -0500, Doug Nelson
 wrote:
> Forgot to mention the picture I have attached is an example of one of
these
> poorly feather trees. My wires are two feet apart so you can see that
this
> tree is almost seven foot tall.
> 
> On Jul 3, 2017 4:22 PM, Doug Nelson 
> wrote:
> 
> I'm in my second year of growing apples. This year we planted 5000 apple
> trees tall spindle style. These will be used for upick.
> 
> The nursery I bought from gave me about a thousand terrible trees with
> almost no feathers.
> 
> I have sprayed heavily with Maxell to encourage lateral bud growth. Has
not
> work that well.
> 
> My Orchard is located right next to one of the Chicagolands largest
> commercial tree nurseries. The field manager of the nursery recently
> stopped by and told me he would encourage lateral growth by heading all
of
> these poorly feathered trees.
> 
> I know the rule with tall spindle is generally you never had the tree,
but
> I think the assumption  is that you have a lot of feathers.
> 
> Has anyone ever headed poorly feather trees to encourage lateral growth?
> What were your results?
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Re: [Apple-Crop] To head, or not to head: that is the tall spindle question.

[Doug Nelson]

Forgot to mention the picture I have attached is an example of one of these
poorly feather trees. My wires are two feet apart so you can see that this
tree is almost seven foot tall.

On Jul 3, 2017 4:22 PM, Doug Nelson 
wrote:

I'm in my second year of growing apples. This year we planted 5000 apple
trees tall spindle style. These will be used for upick.

The nursery I bought from gave me about a thousand terrible trees with
almost no feathers.

I have sprayed heavily with Maxell to encourage lateral bud growth. Has not
work that well.

My Orchard is located right next to one of the Chicagolands largest
commercial tree nurseries. The field manager of the nursery recently
stopped by and told me he would encourage lateral growth by heading all of
these poorly feathered trees.

I know the rule with tall spindle is generally you never had the tree, but
I think the assumption  is that you have a lot of feathers.

Has anyone ever headed poorly feather trees to encourage lateral growth?
What were your results?
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