Umesh, > It is true that there are quite a few poor upper caste people -- like > Rajputs and Brahmins -- but many are such becos they want to continue the > family tradition -- and not do any "menial work" done earlier by Dalits --- > I know many many such people. They need to change their attitude (many have > already done -after their earlier generation became bankrupt) and start > earning.
Wow! Umesh. So, how would one characterize the condition of the Dalits. According to your logic, if the Brahmins performed menial tasks their lot would be better. The why is the Dalit position not been uplifted - as they are performing those very menial tasks that you prescribe? IMHO, poverty is a viscious circle whether they are Brahmis or Dalits and it is difficult to get out. Your logic sounds very much a logic one hears from Americans when they say ' Why do people in India go hungry - why don't they eat the beef thats roaming freely?' Brahmins don't automatically perform menial tasks (even if their life depended on it) for the same reasons Hindus do not automatically eat beef (even if their lives depended on it) or Muslims, pork. --Ram da On 12/23/05, umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ram-da, > > As you rightly mentioned there are particular groups among Dalits who are > all poor and deserve to be uplifted. I would say that ALL Dalits who do not > pay any income tax (as a measure of their income levels) should be the ones > who be definitely given benefits of reservation in education, jobs and > promotion. > > I'm sure there are quite a few of them. However, if someone is very poor he > or she cannot even educate the children - lacks books, uniform, fees, travel > costs, extra curricular costs etc - they would need finanacial help also. > > Of the rest - those who are having assets - say above Rs 50 lakh ( $100,000) > can be kept out of the ambit entirely. > > In the middle layer can be given broken up into various levels of benefits. > > > It is true that there are quite a few poor upper caste people -- like > Rajputs and Brahmins -- but many are such becos they want to continue the > family tradition -- and not do any "menial work" done earlier by Dalits --- > I know many many such people. They need to change their attitude (many have > already done -after their earlier generation became bankrupt) and start > earning. > > Your advice is welcome. > > Umesh > > Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Umesh, > > What you quote below is really an example of corruption by some IAS > officials. > But overall GOI policy should not be subsidizing castes (specially > when the Constitution says 'all are equal'). > The weak in any society need a helping hand, but in India the > definition of weak is blurred. For example, a lower caste of immense > financial assets does not need any help, as opposed to a say an > unemployed, poor higher caste. > > It just doesn't make sense. One of my class mates happened to belong > to ST. His father was a big shot in the State Gov.. And of course, he > needed all the help from scholarships to freebees in admissions and a > cushy job. Then there was this other guy, who also belonged to SC/ST. > His father was a big ooh-ah in the Congress, and the son today is a > biggy in State Gov. He is now reputed to be one most corrupt in Govt. > > Did these guys need help? Spiritually maybe. So, how do you justify > 'reservations' solely based on caste. Now, as I mentioned before, > there may be instances where people belonging to some particular caste > are all in the same boat - ie. lack of eduactional opportunities, job > prospects etc. The GOI must identify such groups and provide the help. > > But blanket policies of such reservations just tends to uplift a whole > section of people (whether they deserve it or not) at the expense of > others, who may actually deserve it. > > Who, in your opinion, deserve quotas? > > As for private schools - the Government should not mandate quotas from > private enterprises. India's past experience with socialism hasn't > worked out very well for it, it is slowly testing the waters for a > capitalist society and such ventures into private enterprise doesn't > bode well. > > --Ram da > > On 12/23/05, umesh sharma wrote: > > Ram-da, > > > > I do promote reservations for students in private schools - but as is > > evident Minority Schools (incl. Catholic schools -which are generally > > considered better than others) are kept out of the ambit. In Bhopal for > > example, Campion School (a Jesuit institution) was given whole of Sector 6 > > of Arera Colony by the IAS officials for school campus for free!! -since > > they were the ones whose children who would benefit. The local schools > > continued to run in hovels. Then I stayed in a house near Sector 7. > > > > A similar move seems to be in progress where the children of Dalits would > > flock Non-Catholic schools only -- and the rich politicians and > bureaucrats > > would be free to send their children to Catholic schools . Just like US > > where the whites chose to leave inner cities so that their children do not > > mingle with poorer and black children --similarly the rich and powerful in > > India have managed to appease Dalits (by promising them reservations) and > > minorities by keeping minority run schools out of the ambit of reservation > > for Dalit students. > > > > But as the Parliament said -- the law is a work-in-progress hopefully the > > details would be worked out. > > > > Umesh > > > > > > Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > C'da, > > > > > >Why all the other justifications. > > > > > > *** For political reasons -- to assert one's own religion's > > > superiority over another's. > > > > That may actually be true in case of human sacrifice. But in the case > > of mute animals, is it because 'we just can'? > > > > A cursory gloss over religious texts (all religions) one can find > > numerous examples where the powerful make sure the weaker pay the > > penance. And that, I suspect is one reason that the caste system is > > still thriving today. > > > > Even though many understand that it is bad - that understanding > > exludes their inter-personal dealings with others in marriages, dowry, > > job opportunities etc. > > > > Now, it is not that ONLY brahmins are to blame for this. Take the > > example of 'reserved seats' in ALL schools (private or public) as > > mandated by the Center. > > The reserved seats obviously are for the supposedly 'underprivileged' > > classes (castes). SC/ST groups have been demanding this for a while. > > So, now, how well one does is not significant, it What caste one > > belongs that is important? > > > > The question of 'reservations; should be based on (a) academics and > > (b) on family income. It ought not to be based on caste. > > > > But I do believe that there may be some castes (like the Gonds of MP) > > who are on the whole at the short end of the stick. These are people > > with little or no income and also belong to some obscure caste. They > > of course need help. > > > > --Ram > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/23/05, Chan Mahanta wrote: > > > THat was a very fine set of observations Ram. > > > > > > >Why all the other justifications. > > > > > > *** For political reasons -- to assert one's own religion's > > > superiority over another's. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 1:18 PM -0600 12/23/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > >Umesh, > > > > > > > >My views aren't worth a dime - in any case here are some: > > > > > > > >Humans have always eaten meat -like any other carnivora. We are hard > > > >wired into that. In fact, Brahmins of yore also ate meat (and beef), > > > >but many don't today. > > > > > > > >Vegitarianism is good (at least for health it seems) - if one can do it > > > > > > > >>Animal sacrifices -at Kamakhya or at Amer fort Jaipur -- are done > > > >"Jhatka style" - >killing with one blow of the sword/knife. > > > > > > > >I hope that does not justify killing animals just to appease the Gods? > > > > > > > > >one should speak out against eating meat altogether --rather than > > > >singling out > > > >> killing of animals for sacrifices (and later eaten) -and not when > they > > are > > > >> killed for food. > > > > > > > >Thats a good point. Humans eat meat primarily because animals are > > > >lower in the food chain. All other reasons are given in order to > > > >varnish that primal need. > > > >I do not believe any God would demand the life of one living species > > > >so that another species may be blessed. All of this has been written > > > >and handed down by humans (not animals) in their religious texts - > > > >where the weaker pay the price. > > > > > > > >> I was not ridiculing offerings made by "human volunteers" primarily > > keeping > > > >> in mind that Sri RamaKrishna (Vivekanand's Guru) also sought to cut > his > > own > > > >> head with a sword unless Goddess Kali showed her presence and he was > > > >> successful in obtaining her favors. > > > > > > > >Well!, if I did what RK did, I too would claim my continued existence > > > >on divine intervention - a la Robertson! > > > > > > > >Basically, there are some who will justify eating meat by quoting > > > >religion or something. And there are others who will do these things > > > >because they are 'less educated' to believe in such hog wash. > > > > > > > >In the end humans do eat meat - all they need to say is that they just > > > >love eating meat. Why all the other justifications. > > > > > > > >--Ram da > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On 12/23/05, umesh sharma wrote: > > > >> Ram-da, > > > >> > > > >> Personally I do not like the taste of meat or eggs - but if it is > > dressed in > > > >> spices it become palatable. I statrted eating meat only in my final > > year at > > > >> college -since noone eats even eggs in my family. > > > >> > > > >> However, I uphold the rights of meat eaters to kill and eat animals > or > > > >> poultry. If they first offer it to God -and then eat it - so much the > > better > > > >> for them. Animal sacrifices -at Kamakhya or at Amer fort Jaipur -- > are > > done > > > >> "Jhatka style" - killing with one blow of the sword/knife. Even it > were > > > >> Halal or Kosher style animal sacrifice -as done by Muslims or Jews -- > > one > > > >> should speak out against eating meat altogether --rather than > singling > > out > > > >> killing of animals for sacrifices (and later eaten) -and not when > they > > are > > > >> killed for food. > > > >> > > > >> It is surprising that I have been to many many temples where even > mice > > > >> cannot be killed and ofcourse never a monkey. Cows, elephants and > even > > ants > > > >> and trees like Peepal (Indian fig) are not to be harmed -- but on the > > other > > > >> hand there are people who like to make offerings in form of animal > > life. > > > >> > > > >> I was not ridiculing offerings made by "human volunteers" primarily > > keeping > > > >> in mind that Sri RamaKrishna (Vivekanand's Guru) also sought to cut > his > > own > > > >> head with a sword unless Goddess Kali showed her presence and he was > > > >> successful in obtaining her favors. Maybe there are others who want > to > > chose > > > >> that route. On the other hand, there are Tantriks (invoking evil) who > > make > > > >> people kill other humans. Thats evil. > > > >> > > > >> Umesh > > > >> > > > >> Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > >> Umesh, > > > >> The subject of such sacrifices (human or animal) is a present day > > > >> phenonmena in many parts of the world. In my opinion whether > religions > > > >> sanction such practices is really immaterial. The question should be > : > > > > > Do we, as modern-day humans, need to hark back to religious texts, > and > > > >> take cover to justify such outdated and inhumane practices? > > > >> Human sacrifice is probably few and far between, but the practice of > > > >> slaughtering animals to appease some God or the other is much more > > > >> common. But why should we stop there, even the way we humans treat > > > >> animals is just deploarable. > > > >> As an example, in the US, new-born calves are suspended in air for > > > >> about 4-6 months before being cudledged with a baseball bat in > Spring. > > > >> The bat is really used to tenderrize the veal. The industry, of > course > > > >> denies this, but some years ago, Life Magazine had a full illustrated > > > >> story on this. Pigs, chickens etc are all penned in such a way as to > > > >> increase yield. A chicken, it seems, gets a 8" X 11" space all its > > > >> life to lay eggs and increase meat yield till its slaughtered. A hog > > > >> gets only enough space to move backward or forward a few inches. A > > > >> Chicago mall kept a huge ape in a small room for public viewing (as > no > > > >> zoo would take him) for something like 20 years. In Texas, we are > > > >> proud to have what is called 'canned hunting'. In such a hunt, exotic > > > >> animal can be shot at close range for a good price. Of course, the > > > >> 'hunter' is in no possible danger. > > > >> > > > >> If this is the condition in the US, one shudders to think how animals > > > >> fare in many other countries. > > > >> > > > >> I am no animal rights nut, and do love my meat & potatoes, but > > > >> humanity should now well understand that we have a 'contract', albeit > > > >> unwritten, with animals. That is, even though we expect them to give > > > >> us meat & skin, we ought to treat them humanely as possible. > > > >> Lastly, we ought to also be able to treat our less fortunate brothers > > > >> more humanely. On every visit to India it still saddens me to see > > > >> countless poor pulling heavy loads (like beasts of burden). Thela > > > >> wallas, rickshaw wallas etc have yet to realize the dreams so many of > > > >> the middle and upper class in India enjoy. > > > >> Sorry for going off into another direction. > > > >> -- Ram da > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On 12/22/05, umesh sharma wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > I have been reading the Bible last night -infact the whole night to > > learn > > > >> about ancient Israelite history -and the practices mentioned in the > > texts. I > > > >> would list my observations in another post - but I must say I did not > > find > > > >> any difference among Hindu texts and Bible - in terms of violence, > > > >> animal/human sacrifice and God/Vishnu/Jehovah appointed Kingships. I > > was > > > >> intrigued after watching the H1story channel www.history.com last > night > > > >> which quoted the Bible for ancient Middle Eastern militarty history. > > > >> > > > > >> > Umesh > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Chan Mahanta wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > >One suggestion might to first 'educate' the educated, and then one > > can > > > >> think of >the masses :). > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > ****Well said Ram. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > At 2:18 PM -0600 12/22/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > >> > Umesh, > > > >> > > > > >> > When you say 'official', don't we mean government sanctioned? As > far > > as I > > > >> know, in India it is illegal to sacrifice human or animal. As far as > > animals > > > >> go (like Kamakhyya) no Govt. will take upon itself to impose the law > on > > a > > > >> mass of worshipers who are hell-bent on taking the lives of innocent > > animals > > > >> to appease their Gods. This practice is just abbhorent. The same goes > > for > > > >> sacrificing cows/goats/camels at ID festivals. > > > >> > > > > >> > Many religions (except possibily Bhuddism) sanction such > sacrifices. > > This > > > >> is just another way where the meek are taken advantage of. > Christianity > > > >> (main stream) though, it seems has come a long way. The phrase > > 'sacrificial > > > >> lamb' fortunately exists only in language usage and not practiced. > > > >> > But there are offshoots of Christianity, like the Santa Ria, which > > can > > > >> easily give many Kamakhyya worshipers a run for their money. > > > >> > > > > >> > Sadly, the practice it seems is also prevalent with some of the > > educated > > > >> and elite. Many educated people also sacrifice goats at Kamakhyya > > frequently > > > >> to atone for their sins. > > > >> > > > > >> > As far as girls being exempt, here is a news item that will make > one > > think > > > > > again. > > > >> > > > > >> > One suggestion might to first 'educate' the educated, and then one > > can > > > >> think of the masses :). > > > >> > > > > >> > --Ram da > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > PATNA, India: Police in the eastern Indian state of Bihar on Friday > > dug up > > > >> the remains of two teenage girls alleged to have been killed by their > > father > > > >> in a ritual human sacrifice earlier this week. Kishor Kunal, a police > > > >> official at Runisaidpur in Sitamarhi district, 160 km north of state > > capital > > > >> Patna, said 18-year-old Renu Kumari and 13-year-old Anu Kumari were > > killed > > > >> with a sword and then their limbs were cut into pieces. > > > >> > > > > >> > ---------------------- > > > >> > > > > >> > "This is a case of human sacrifice during the festival," Kunal > said. > > > >> Police said the father had fled since the incident in Vasudeopur > > village. > > > >> The human sacrifices were part of the recent 10-day Hindu festival of > > > >> Dassera when people pray to Durga, a goddess who symbolises strength > > and > > > >> power, according to police and villagers. > > > >> > > > > >> > Police said a 40-year-old villager was also killed in Mahauli > village > > in > > > >> Muzaffarpur district, 85 km north of Patna in an incident related to > > human > > > >> sacrifice. "A man came running with a spear, yelling "Jai Ma Durga" > and > > > >> slashed the head of the person sitting at a tea stall," said > > Akhileshwar > > > >> Das, deputy superintendent of police. > > > >> > > > > >> > He said infuriated villagers chased the man and thrashed him with > > rods and > > > >> sticks until he died. The man confessed, while he was being beaten, > > that he > > > >> had pledged to sacrifice a person to appease the gods. Source: > > SunnahOnline > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On 12/21/05, umesh sharma wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > I see that it is sone obscure ritual -- fed by "human volunteers" > not > > as > > > >> hapless victims -as in case of animals or cannibalism. Interestingly > > females > > > >> are excluded. in any case even committing suicide or euthanesia is > > illegal > > > >> now. > > > >> > > > > >> > Umesh > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Barua25 wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > Umesh: > > > >> > Yes. Human Sacrifice was official if you mean its record in Hindu > > > >> Scriptures. In fact see the following news few years back how some > > people > > > >> are trying to revive it even now. > > > >> > RB > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Indian temple revives 'human sacrifice' > > > >> > > > > >> > Human sacrifice was thought to have died out > > > >> > > > > >> > By Rahul Karmakar > > > >> > in Guwahati, north-eastern India > > > >> > Followers of a Hindu cult in India's north-eastern state of Assam > > have > > > >> revived the ancient practice of human sacrifice. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > A willing human being is difficult to find these days > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Temple researcher Dr Pradeep Sharmah > > > >> > > > > >> > But in the absence of human volunteers, devotees at the Kamakhya > > Temple > > > >> near the state capital Guwahati are using six-foot effigies made of > > flour > > > >> for the rite. > > > >> > Steeped in secrecy, human sacrifices to the Mother Goddess Shakti > > were > > > >> thought to have died out completely. > > > >> > The revival of the "Nara bali" practice a few years ago would have > > > >> remained under wraps had it not been for an academic researching the > > temple, > > > >> one of India's holiest pilgrimage sites. > > > >> > The cult followers had apparently wanted live humans to revive the > > gory > > > >> tradition, but opted for an effigy instead fearing a backlash. > > > >> > Ancient worship > > > >> > "A willing human being is difficult to find these days," said Dr > > Pradeep > > > >> Sharmah, director of the Vivekananda Kendra Institute of Culture > > (VKIC). > > > >> > He said priests had already been heavily criticised by animal > rights > > > >> groups for their use of animals in ritual sacrifices, hence their > > decision > > > >> to use human effigies instead of the real thing. > > > >> > Dr Sharmah was inducted into the inner circle of a handful of > > "Shakta" > > > >> priests after he won their trust. > > > >> > "The sacrifice is made at midnight, on the day of Ashtami during > the > > > >> 10-day autumnal Durga Puja," said Dr Sharmah. > > > >> > But it can also be carried out on any day specified by divine > forces. > > > >> > "The ancient worshippers believed that the person to be sacrificed > > was > > > >> sent by god, and as a rule a woman would never be put to the altar," > Dr > > > >> Sharmah said. > > > >> > The Kamakhya Temple attracts some 10,000 devotees per day, but > > certain > > > >> aspects of the temple's ceremonies - including sacrifices - have been > > kept > > > > > closely-guarded secrets. > > > >> > No witnesses > > > >> > The administrator of the Kamakhya Trust, Bharati Prasad Sarma, said > > that > > > >> no outsiders were ever allowed to witness a sacrifice. > > > >> > Thousands of devotees worship at the temple > > > >> > > > > >> > "It is believed that if anyone tries to see the act, evil is > bestowed > > upon > > > >> him by the Mother," he said. > > > >> > The administrator said the schoolboy son of a temple priest, or > > panda, > > > >> fell blind last year when he tried secretly to watch a ceremony. > > > >> > The pandas say that only a chosen few are eligible to conduct a > > sacrifice. > > > >> > Research shows that human sacrifice at Kamakhya was first revived > 75 > > years > > > >> ago, but was discontinued a few years later. > > > >> > A 1933 journal of the Assam Research Society says that living > people > > were > > > >> sacrificed until the reign of King Gaurinath Singha between 1780 and > > 1796. > > > >> > Records of earlier periods at the Department of Historical and > > Antiquarian > > > >> Studies indicate that the practice was widespread in Assam. > > > >> > See also: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > 15 Mar 02 | South Asia > > > >> > India's secularism under threat? > > > >> > 07 Mar 02 | Country profiles > > > >> > Country profile: India > > > >> > Internet links: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Templenet > > > >> > > > > >> > The BBC is not responsible for the content of external internet > sites > > > >> > > > > >> > Top South Asia stories now: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Karachi bomb suspects arrested > > > >> > Pentagon team to examine bomb error > > > >> > Bangladesh floods maroon thousands > > > >> > Sri Lanka truce violations recorded > > > >> > Al-Qaeda 'may have killed minister' > > > >> > Regional media views Afghan killing > > > >> > More arrests in Pakistan gang rape > > > >> > England crash to defeat > > > >> > Links to more South Asia stories are at the foot of the page. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: umesh sharma > > > >> > To: assam@assamnet.org > > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 5:33 PM > > > >> > Subject: Re: [Assam] An Opposite Prespective of Human Sacrifice > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Rajen-da, > > > >> > > > > >> > by oficial i mean -- Animal sacrifice has been mentioned in Hindu > > > >> scriptures, as well as those of Islam and Christianity -- I do not > > recall a > > > >> similar descritpion of human sacrifice. > > > >> > > > > >> > Umesh > > > >> > > > > >> > Rajen Barua wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > I did not know that human sacrifice was officially sanctioned > > anywhere in > > > >> India > > > >> > > > > >> > It all depends what do you mean by the word "officially". Same > thing > > can > > > >> be said of animal sacrifice that is going on now. Do you say animal > > > >> sacrtifice is "officially" sanctioned? > > > >> > RB > > > >> > > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: umesh sharma > > > >> > To: Rajen Barua ; assam@assamnet.org ; Chan Mahanta > > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:44 PM > > > >> > Subject: Re: [Assam] An Opposite Prespective of Human Sacrifice > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > I did not know that human sacrifice was officially sanctioned > > anywhere in > > > >> India . Though Tantriks and their followers still do practice it > > > >> intermittently and generally someone's child is sacrificed --and the > > > >> generally illterate parent and the priest caught and punished. > > > >> > > > > >> > Umesh > > > >> > > > > >> > Rajen Barua wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > Chandan: > > > >> > Welcome back. > > > >> > Well it was an anonymous piece found somewhere probably in > connection > > with > > > >> the Aztecs civilization of the past. > > > >> > I just forwarded it with the title "An Opposite Perspective etc" to > > the > > > >> net to see member's reaction. > > > >> > The fact of the matter is that we had human sacrifice in Kesai > Khati > > > >> Temple till the 18th century. Temple Kamakhya had this till the other > > day. > > > >> In Assam we used to have a system of "Boli", a guy assigned to be > > > >> sacrificed. In exchange he had unlimited freedom in society. etc > > > >> > Civilizations a behave in a mysterious way. What one find absurd > > today may > > > >> find absolutely normal in another day. The famous short story > 'Lottery' > > > >> tells it all too well. What about present suicide bombing. Everything > > > >> depends on what a society believe to be a decent thing. > > > >> > RB > > > >> > > > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > From: Chan Mahanta > > > >> > To: Rajen Barua ; assam@assamnet.org > > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 9:49 AM > > > >> > Subject: Re: [Assam] An Opposite Prespective of Human Sacrifice > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Rajen: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Who is the author of this perspective? Is it your idea, or is is it > > > > > something you are merely forwarding. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Not that the substance or lack of it is dependent on the ID of the > > > >> creator. But sometimes people post items in the net leaving an > > impression > > > >> that the poster created it, while actually it is merely a forwarded > > piece. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > It will help if you clarified. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > c > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > At 8:50 AM -0600 12/20/05, Rajen Barua wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > Benefits of Human Sacrifice > > > >> > One of the most obvious and even scientific benefits to > reintroducing > > > >> human sacrifice is population control. The population is growing at > an > > > >> alarming rate, and as much as measures are discussed to prevent it, > > little > > > >> is ever done about it. While I?m sure this wouldn?t nearly solve the > > > >> problem, it would help. If people were allowed to die, and it was > done > > in a > > > >> way that was spiritually meaningful and ritually beneficial, this > would > > be > > > >> helpful in solving the overpopulation problem. > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > A more socially oriented benefit would be the disposal of > criminals. > > It > > > >> would save the nation time and money to donate criminals to religious > > > >> organizations to be sacrificed. Each year, American prisons spend > more > > and > > > >> more money supporting criminals on death row- feeding and providing > > living > > > >> conditions for people who have been sentenced to die anyway! The > deaths > > of > > > >> these criminals would be far more meaningful than dying on the > electric > > > >> chair or in the gas chamber. Perhaps criminals could even be given > the > > > >> opportunity to choose which religion they would be given to, giving > > them the > > > >> opportunity to die for their own god. Many people today oppose the > > death > > > >> penalty in general, and would be horrified at this suggestion, but > > would it > > > >> truly be any worse? The death penalty still exists despite people?s > > > >> objections, and it doesn?t look like it?s about to cease existing any > > time > > > >> soon. In the end, isn?t it better that they are sacrificed to the > gods > > > >> rather than to the state? > > > >> > > > > >> > Not only may human sacrifice be used in disposing of criminals, but > > its > > > >> very presence could actually lead to lower incidents of violence in > our > > > >> society. While speaking of Cain?s murder of Abel in the Old > Testament, > > Rene > > > >> Girard states: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > ?The Bible offers us no background on the two brothers except the > > bare > > > >> fact that Cain is a tiller of the soil who gives the fruits of his > > labor to > > > >> God, whereas Abel is a shepherd who regularly sacrifices the first > born > > of > > > >> his herds. One of the brothers kills the other, and the murderer is > the > > one > > > >> who does not have the violence-outlet of animal sacrifice at his > > disposal. > > > >> This difference between sacrificial and non-sacrificial cults > > determines, in > > > >> effect, God?s judgment in favor of Abel? Cain?s ?jealousy? of his > > brother is > > > >> only another term for his one characteristic trait: his lack of a > > > >> sacrificial outlet.? > > > >> > > > > >> > In the society around us, outlets for violence are strongly > > discouraged. > > > >> Even things such as violent video games are demonized for allegedly > > creating > > > >> murderers. But what if Rene Girard?s statement is correct? It seems > > more > > > >> likely that the rise in crime rate is due to the constant suppression > > and > > > >> disapproval of violent themes in this society rather than their > > prevalence. > > > >> If we allowed ourselves violent outlets, including sacrifice, then > > people > > > >> would have less violence pent up inside them, suppressed and waiting > to > > > >> escape by any means that it can. 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