On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote:
Let's see, up to 431 subscribers wading through a trainwreck of comment
thread vs one Ed Lin taking the time to present his case in a clear
fashion ...
Right, that wasn't very helpful of me.
A summary:
There's a difference
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349
OK, just so you know I'm pretty pissed off how this is being handled.
But that's not helping anyone so let's get back to the technical
details and see how we can solve this.
There is quite a demand for that feature, apparently the most
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Matthew Bassett li...@mbassett.net wrote:
I hope I am not raising something that has already been addressed in the
archives of this mailing list, but...
A few links:
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/welcome-window
@everyone in this thread: Thanks for the great response!
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote:
I don't understand why you think a single OS for multiple form factors
counts as getting something right. The success of iOS, Mac OS X, and
Android strongly
It's always interesting to see with what solutions others come up to
exactly the same problems. In the last days both Microsoft and Apple
let us cast a closer look at their next OS versions.
If you missed them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MnEndww2YQ and shorter
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Tony Pursell
a...@princeswalk.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
Not true, I'm afraid. Applications that use the global menu have their
title and, if hovered over, their menus shown on the menu bar when they
are highlighted.
The title will be redundant once spread view
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote:
What about adding numbers a la the launcher item as super is continually
held down? That way, it's easy to tell which number keys activate which
window.
The problem here is that with super+num there's one number per app,
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Tony Pursell
a...@princeswalk.fsnet.co.uk wrote:
Ok, I can understand that, and I also know that you can use the arrow
keys and Return/Enter to select a Window, but it took me a long time of
experimenting to find out what to do. Possibly something that a naive
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Remco remc...@gmail.com wrote:
I think we can ignore feelings of belittlement of adventurous people.
They would feel belittled by automatic codec install, bash command
installation suggestions; everything that helps new users.
Oh my, are you serious?
There is a
In the spread view and workspace view Win+Num still works, adding
another numbering scheme would be quite confusing.
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On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 5:29 PM, GonzO go...@worlord.com wrote:
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 9:45 AM, huffyli...@gmail.com wrote:
Wow, that's harsh.
It's also just my personal opinion ;)
Is it? I mean, how many people use Focus follows pointer?
I haven't seen anyone with that config in a dog's
Truth be told, I never used focus FFP more than a few times out of
curiosity. I'd be interested why people turn it on and how it helps
them with their workflow.
In GNOME there are two relevant settings. One immediately focuses the
window beneath the pointer. Additionally you can make the window
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:04 PM, John Lea john@canonical.com wrote:
On 29/05/11 18:41, Niklas Rosenqvist wrote:
Ok, should I post these in ayatana-design or should I be more specific?
When deciding where to file Unity bugs:
1) If the bug is related to user facing functionality, or the
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:34 PM, Philipp Wendler
ubu...@philippwendler.de wrote:
Hi,
I use focus-follows-mouse, and I find it very annoying when I have to
work longer times on machines that don't have it enabled. I don't use
the raise window feature.
()
Thank you for this detailed
On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote:
Nice, not so obvious aspects of FFP are:
- It eliminates the click-through question (does a click on a widget of an
unfocused window just focus the window, or also count as click on the
widget?)
This could be solved, see
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
What of my points could be added to LP so that we don't get duplicate
entries? And does adding feature requests to LP really do any difference?
Well, I think all of them that aren't on there yet, which is
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad
joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote:
When a window is maximized, the menu and window buttons are moved
to the top panel and the window title shares space with the window menu,
displaying the menu when you hover and the title when you don't.
I
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Omer Akram om26er.l...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, 2011-05-27 at 14:45 +0200, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote:
Next. What is the main reason for wanting the global menu in the first
place?
Here, there reason was explained:
Great post! Thank you for the nice mockups too!
Absolutely no idea if this is considered realistic but lets hope so.
I really have no critical feedback (so far) just a few amendments:
Compiz should get some love
see Remember window positions
https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05613.html
There's some oftopic in at the beginning, considerer yourself warned.
You can skip to the marking.
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 6:00 AM, GonzO go...@worlord.com wrote:
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 8:49 PM, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote:
With all due respect: I do not think your cases are all
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Adrian Maier syra...@gmail.com wrote:
You are right about the lack of verdict. The fact that some people dislike
it doesn't necessarily mean that the default behavior must be
immediately changed.
Two things we need to discern: the concept of a global menu
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 2:15 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad
joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote:
I was very sceptical about the global menu to begin with, but I gave it
a try and now I really like it.
...
I have no problems with global menus.
It does take a little time to get used to, but I think the
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Martín Casco martinca...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree with you.. During the las cycle I've said here that icons lenses
were, and are, a waste of space.
Last cycle?
Ddid you get any opposing feedback? I can't come up with a single
reason why the current design was
It's just a gimmick that was copied from Win7. A lighter highlight
background would aid making running applications more visible.
See [Ayatana] Idea for improving visibility of running applications for more
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On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM, Calum Lind caluml...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone, I have a small feature request.
When looking for applications with just the keyboard I found that I still
need the mouse to expand the Dash to full screen.
I did look to see if there was such a shortcut but
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote:
What about integrating the Applications and Files Lenses into the Main
dash, and using separate icons for User-installed Lenses? There was a good
point brought up about why the main dash *shouldn't* be used for all
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 7:28 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad
joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you. Yes, I'll be happy to describe that, of course.
Thank you for that detailed reply! To sum it up:
- you don't use menus frequently so you prefer not having them clutter
your screen
- you often
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Calum Lind caluml...@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry what do you mean remember its state? I am asking about a keyboard
shortcut, that does not currently exist, to toggle Dash's expand to
fullscreen option.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/788783
What would the
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Arian van Gend aria...@gmail.com wrote:
I've started a Unity 11.10 design document to formalize the contributions of
the community to Unity design. It also covers improving the lenses and the
Dash. Maybe you could read it, and if someone feels like it, improve
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Spike Burch spi...@gmail.com wrote:
PS: is it just me, or are there no well designed e-mail clients for
our platform?
Are there for any platform?
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On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 1:16 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad
joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote:
On 26. mai 2011 22:53, Ed Lin wrote:
enough to warrant that spot. The top panel is misused as place to get
Why do you say it's misused?
Because it's the most valuable space anywhere on the screen to put
So this is half serious but something for you all to think about, if
the global menu is such a great idea and we weren't constraint by any
toolkit legacy problems...
http://i.imgur.com/xsD0v.png
Would you use this (without maximizing the window)?
Now think about what this would mean for
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
Like the many
applications showing system information like RAM: 50%, CPU: 70% which the
user wants to be able to see at all times without opening a lens from the
launcher.
That's nothing most users are
A very rough sketch based on your image and parts scraped from google images...
http://i.imgur.com/WMLYk.png
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/5/24 Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com
I hope I cleared that up as above. I probably should do
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote:
Why can't we let the top panel stay and hold the indicators?
1. Panels/notification bars are used in *every* major OS (Windows's is odd
at the bottom), from desktops like Ubuntu and OS X to mobile platforms like
On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/5/24 Ed Lin
A very rough sketch based on your image and parts scraped from google
images...
http://i.imgur.com/WMLYk.png
I understand your idea but to me it feels like a last resort make it just
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 1:15 AM, ello tenniswithshov...@gmail.com wrote:
But don't all designers take into account the title bar of the window?
Don't all the features you talk about appear under it? Since, when
maximised, the panel is the title bar, I don't see how this is a
concern. Have I
One thing I forgot: distraction. If you have several windows open on a
desktop you'll have to move outside the window you are currently
working in and both move your eyes and the cursor across other windows
(and maybe a distracting wallpaper or a cluttered desktop). Don't
think that matters?
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 11:28 PM, David Regev david.re...@gmail.com wrote:
The equation doesn’t break down here because you’re not supposed to put in
∞. Although the edge may theoretically be infinitely long, it’s not in
practice. Any human being aiming at the edge will stop within a certain
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
Here is the mockup:
http://i.imgur.com/sl8k6.png
If this won't work then maybe we could just move the whole top panel to the
bottom of the screen and have a intellihide function for it or merge it
with the
I already said this but I'll repeat it to prevent being misunderstood:
I maintain that Fitts's Law is absolutely accurate and helpful for
what it describes. The problem is that it doesn't describe all factors
necessary for a full assessment and is often applied in a too simple
and linear
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
Altogether four icons which I think would leave room enough for app
icons on smaller screens.
Do you really think that? Four launchers are in my view a lot of extra
launchers. What I tried to achieve with
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:38 PM, David Regev david.re...@gmail.com wrote:
I have yet to see an actual study arguing against the efficiency of global
menus, not even for large modern monitors. If you want to take the return
trip into account and other such factors, feel free to do so. The
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 6:02 AM, Ralph Green sira...@gmail.com wrote:
If this is some kind of principle that guides the decision to use
the global menu, then it is time to change. I am quite experienced
with the mouse and how to use it. I use as much acceleration as is
reasonable. It would
On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
2011/5/20 Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com
alternatively:
keep the current button design of the workspace switcher and extend it
so you can add and remove certain special buttons such as the spread
view or show
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 8:39 AM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't see the limit as being a huge problem. I personally rarely have more
than 3 open at once.
Of course, one user's habits shouldn't be used as the judgement for an
entire UI. Would it bbe possible to allow for a
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:50 AM, David Stevenson da...@avoncliff.com wrote:
Viewed from a slightly different perspective, there is a view that the
existing menu layout is best for newbies and this list consists of
traditional power users which is why they don't like it.
I do not agree with
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
Ed Lin proposed several solutions to the global menu problem in the
ayatana thread Thoughts on Unity design. But one thing that people tend to
forget when talking about removing the global menu
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Bazon bazonbl...@arcor.de wrote:
No solution yet? Unbelievable, so I answered your issues right there.
I still believe toggeling between window title and menu ALWAYS on all
windows (not just the maximized ones) is the best and very consistent
solution.
My
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 10:03 AM, Ralph Green sira...@gmail.com wrote:
2. MPT seems to think the global menu is quicker, even on large
screens. That is certainly not my experience. ... The
question is how typical am I?
3. Why do people keep referring to Fitt's law. It does not apply to
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, GonzO Rodrigue worlord...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote:
There can be more said about it and there's been written a lot on the
list already. There's nothing really new to see here and I'm repeating
myself
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Mohamed Ikbel Boulabiar
boulab...@gmail.com wrote:
Just a small comment:
Compared to unity bar, the top bar isn't touch friendly, so any
mockup/suggestion that would fix this is very very welcome !
In case you haven't seen it yet, here's one without any top
switch to the desired window. What's up with
that?
Compiz being slow? Not by design, that's for sure.
2011/5/15 Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Brandon Watkins bwa...@gmail.com wrote:
Unity badly needs better ways to deal with applications that have
multiple
I'd love to see a justification for the current design but anyway, the
lenses and dash need to be combined into one single menu. There should
be one single search bar, one simple way to get there and one
unified result page. These results obviously need to be structured
better but having separate
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 4:44 AM, Jason Taylor killerkiwi2...@gmail.com wrote:
Are all these environment variables documented anywhere?
Don't think so. Here's a collection of the most common but not
specific to Unity. That would require an update to the documentation.
On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Pippa Kyle pippa.k...@canonical.com wrote:
Are you guys at UDS?
I wouldn't mind having an informal session/chat about app/windows centricity
management.
No, I really just started taking more interest in the Ayatana
discussions a few weeks ago and learned
On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:19 AM, James Jenner james.g.jen...@gmail.com wrote:
However, unfortunately there is one issue, which may be specific to my
circumstances. I have a large monitor (30 inches) running at a high
resolution. I am always opening multiple apps and positioning them on the
On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Toki Tahmid oxw...@gmail.com wrote:
The current launcher in Unity is app-centric - i.e. instead of window
controls (open a new window, minimize window, etc.), it shows the windows of
the application.
If the launcher was window-centric like the classic GNOME
On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Toki Tahmid oxw...@gmail.com wrote:
This is NOT a suggestion to turn launcher window-centric, just a thread to
discuss how it'd be.
Essentially a window-centric launcher is an oxymoron because launch
always means application, but read on.
On 7 May 2011 23:06,
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
I say we close this thread since it's a bug and not a design issue.
I really expected this to be labeled a feature and wontfix by GNOME
but having a bug open for now 6 years restored my faith
sufficiently...
On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 10:00 AM, Adrian Maier syra...@gmail.com wrote:
I am suggesting that right-clicking on running application has a
menu option Start new
You can already do that for applications that have been patched for
Unity, namely Firefox and middle-clicking on the launcher will
On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
Can't we continue the discussion here since we are already arguing here?
I think we should split it then, change the subject to something like
improving Unity for window-centric workflow (was: Idea for
On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
Is it really necessary to indicate which windows are hidden? I mean if you
cannot see it you can assume that it's hidden or somewhere else. Even if it
is hidden, it can still be accessed with alt+tab or
On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 5:55 PM, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote:
In Unity applications and windows largely behave more like OS X while
the classic desktop is more like Windows.
There is a dock which represents applications as opposed to windows.
It focuses windows of a running application
showhidden -bool
YES and check how many results you get.
That is why I'm still convinced that my original idea is the best
proposed solution so far. As Ed Lin pointed out it might be a problem in
getting the launcher to react on hover, but wouldn't it benefit the UX (User
Experience) greatly? Isn't
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
Here I have the finished mockup of how this configurable feature could
work. For the future, what is the best way to share images with the
ayatana mailing list? Is it by attaching the image to the email or
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
There you just pointed to the exact problem I'm trying to address! If you
look at the first frame of the mockup you see the current setup, the
programs that are running have an illuminated background together
On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 1:19 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
What you suggested is a far reaching, non-default behavior option
and I still fail to see the point of it.
That is because you still haven't read the discussion...
I've read every mail of it, I think even
On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 3:43 AM, Evan Huus eapa...@gmail.com wrote:
This debate is getting rather heated, and I'm getting quoted and
rephrased a fair bit. Let me take this opportunity to clarify both
what I actually think:
Unity is supposed to be considered 'application-centric'.
...
This
On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Mehdi Fattahi mah@gmail.com wrote:
My idea is that a Tasks button should be added to the launcher. When
clicked, it shows a bubble containing thumbnail previews of open windows.
The behavior is like scale but inside the bubble, thus no distraction and
no
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Phong Cao phn...@gmail.com wrote:
Gnome3 is, in almost every way, a usability regression. It simply takes
many times more work (clicks, drags, gestures, etc. etc.) to perform almost
any given action (opening an app, closing an app, finding an app, etc.
appear vertically on the title bar. Oh, and other system icons like mounted
USB/partition smaller and statically fixed at the bottom would be great.
@Ed, wondering for a while now, but what the hell is Fitts's Law? Menus on
title bar, period.
On 29 April 2011 07:07, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com
On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Phong Cao phn...@gmail.com wrote:
About Unity Gnome Shell... none of them is better than the other. It
depends on the users.
I am the kind of user that never open less than 5 windows at a time.
As I explained above:
1. Try to open 3 maximized windows of
There are several problems with this:
Drag-click on a menu: on current menus, even with the firefox button
one can press the mouse, the menu appears, move the mouse over desired
entry, release. This is quicker than click, move, click again.
Even if you don't do that, this is a very common user
You might have noticed me writing a lot about some quite fundamental
interface paradigms in Unity in the last days. I've limited myself to
rising questions and coming up with arguments against certain aspects
of Unity. Here I'll try to hint at some possible solutions both to my
own criticisms and
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 8:21 PM, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 21:19 +0200, Ed Lin wrote:
Secondly, it's broken. Opening another window of the same
class/role/whatever shouldn't put it exactly on top
,
Ed Lin
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On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:31 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist
niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, my name is Niklas Rosenqvist and I recently sent this message to
David Barth who forwarded it to a couple of people and I thought I
might post it here as well to see what reactions it might get. I'm
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 7:29 PM, Vishnoo v...@ubuntu.com wrote:
On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 21:19 +0200, Ed Lin wrote:
This is regarding
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/124315
Won't Fix in papercuts , but is tagged ayatana to be overseen in Ayatana
project
Any update
This is regarding https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/124315
Won't Fix in papercuts , but is tagged ayatana to be overseen in Ayatana
project
Any update on this?
I don't think it's necessary to argue why this functionality is so
important and there is no point in arguing
On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Caio Alonso caioal...@gmail.com wrote:
First of all, sorry for not knowing the right name of this window, I just
know it as the one that shows up when the Ubuntu button is clicked.
It's the Dash
In Unity applications and windows largely behave more like OS X while
the classic desktop is more like Windows.
There is a dock which represents applications as opposed to windows.
It focuses windows of a running application instead of launching a new
window and there is a single menubar per
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