Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
[`] ZWJ [\] ZWNJ +1 I agree with reasoning of Dipankarda and Runa regarding hasanta. Cheers, Golam - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 5/9/07, Golam Mortuza Hossain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [`] ZWJ [\] ZWNJ +1 I agree with reasoning of Dipankarda and Runa regarding hasanta. Great, so most of us seems ok with above one! :-) Any more changes? Best, -Jamil - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 5/9/07, Runa B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: das wrote: On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 14:43 -0400, Golam Mortuza Hossain wrote: Since, usability is the main issue, I also agree with Deepayan on relocation of 'hasant'. [ \ ] intuitaviely resembles more like actual hasanta than current [ / ]. This point has occurred to me too, time and again. If [\] does anything, that should be 'hasanta'. But there is a problem. While typing, all the more used things should always be within the three main rows. Use of 'hasanta' is not at all that common in modern Bangla, but the other job that is done by [/] now is conjoining, and that is pretty common, almost once every word in average, or even more than that. And moving just the little finger of the right hand helps in keeping up the speed, that will not be true for [\], every time for a conjoined letter right palm will get physically moved, when the bases of both the palms are fixed on the table, that is the natural position of the palms, and the healthy one for typing for long periods of time (ergonomic too). By just stretching the right little finger you cannot get [\]. You have to move it. This is true for both the keyboards I use, the TVS-Gold (it is a quite reputed one) and even the cramped keyboard of the Acer Aspire 3002 laptop. So, I think it will be true for any keyboard. This speed thing is so very important for the heavy bulk Bangla writers. So, I think, in no way it will be prudent at all to give the conjoining function to the [\] key. I absolutely support Dipankarda's views here about the hasanta. Moving it to \ is an inconvenient way of writing conjuncts. Secondly, about DS' query regarding (in)frequent usage of ZWJ: Sayam's blog entry regarding the matter is pretty much conclusive http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings/2007/04/09/ra-japhala-in-bengali-bn-and-unicode-50/ Unicode rules prescribe the usage of ZWJ (and not ZWNJ) for writing ra-japhala. quote-from-blog/book …Unicode Standard adopts the convention of placing the character U+200D ZWJ immediately after the ra to obtain the ra-yaphaala… /quote-from-blog/book Yes, my point was (and still is) that this use of ZWJ is very very infrequent compared to the use of ZWNJ. At one point you suggested that we have ZWNJ on a shift key and ZWJ on a non-shift key, and I was trying to understand your reasons for that. Since ZWNJ is also used by Uniscribe's older versions perhaps the Again, we seem to have a misunderstanding. Your implication seems to be that ZWNJ no longer has any valid use. Is that what you are trying to suggest? following scheme can be adopted to keep both on non-shift keys: [`] ZWJ [\] ZWNJ I'll be perfectly happy with that. -Deepayan - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 5/8/07, das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 11:14 -0700, Deepayan Sarkar wrote: Hope that helps. Yeah, it helped. Thank you for this. Why don't you write a good Bangla primer on these things and related matters? Can you suggest me a bit more documentation on Unicode and Bangla, not very technical though, I am no developer. Not those on the unicode-org site. Is there any? Good but simple and short? Why don't you write one in Bangla? The trick is not in writing a guide, the trick is to make people read it. Where would you suggest I put it? Sometimes answers-on-demand are just easier :-) -Deepayan - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 13:24 -0700, Deepayan Sarkar wrote: The trick is not in writing a guide, the trick is to make people read it. Where would you suggest I put it? Sometimes answers-on-demand are just easier :-) No, I am sorry. People really read when they need it. The GNU-Linux book that I wrote in Bangla was kept on the GLT site for a long time. Around two years. Then, when we got the information that a lot of copies are getting printed out in different colleges, we decided to publish in hard copy primarily because the cost of a book for a student will be much less than a print-out. And, this Unicode and Bangla together is going to be there for a very very long time to come. A lot of people will start learning what it is. Why the Dictionary project of GMH does excite me that much? We are yet to enter into an electronic age, at least in Bangla, most probably because we lack an OCR, breaking the crucial text-database linkage. The whole Bangla lineage is entirely absent electronically. But, it will come, together with this Unicode thing that you people are doing here. Websites and database sites full of Unicode Bangla text: this is the future: we will need it, and as we need, people will read the primer too. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 4/30/07, das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 15:18 +0600, Jamil Ahmed wrote: [ `] = ZWNJ [~] = ZWJ +1 Anyone else? DS/SDG/RunaB/Golam/Others?? (Can't remember a single instance when needed it while writing any Bangla text) :) - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
Jamil Ahmed wrote: On 4/30/07, das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 15:18 +0600, Jamil Ahmed wrote: [ `] = ZWNJ [~] = ZWJ +1 Anyone else? DS/SDG/RunaB/Golam/Others?? I guess I had proposed this..mostly for the ra-japhala issue as mentioned by sayam. [~] = ZWNJ [ `] = ZWJ I'd still go with this. The ZWJ is currently on shift+= (or +) and it'll be easier to write, if it doesn't need a shift key. regards Runa - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 08/05/07, das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: '~' for ZWNJ FYI, the tilde (four of it) is used for signing ones user name in wikipedia. Note: Couldn't follow the thread, missed the entire conversation. -- ভাল থাকেন mak --- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 5/8/07, Runa B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jamil Ahmed wrote: On 4/30/07, das [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 15:18 +0600, Jamil Ahmed wrote: [ `] = ZWNJ [~] = ZWJ +1 Anyone else? DS/SDG/RunaB/Golam/Others?? I guess I had proposed this..mostly for the ra-japhala issue as mentioned by sayam. [~] = ZWNJ [ `] = ZWJ I'd still go with this. The ZWJ is currently on shift+= (or +) and it'll be easier to write, if it doesn't need a shift key. I'm not sure I understand. Are you proposing that we have the rarely used (only for ra-japhala) ZWJ bound to a non-shift key and the fairly common ZWNJ bound to a shift key? Why? Why are we not trying to use [\]? It seems pointless to have it free. -Deepayan - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 4/25/07, Deepayan Sarkar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, why is hasanta / and not \ ? Since, usability is the main issue, I also agree with Deepayan on relocation of 'hasant'. [ \ ] intuitaviely resembles more like actual hasanta than current [ / ]. Moreover, It seems that people want both ZWJ and ZWNJ in non-shift charracters. so I suggest [ ` ] = ZWJ( like roof... both under the same roof ... JOINER) [ / ] = ZWNJ ( like wall...a wall between them ... NON-JOINER) [ \ ] = HASANTA( Closely resembles actual hasanta...) :-) As it could be a major upgrade for Probhat layout, it would be nice if people post their other concerns/comments/usability issues that they might have!! Cheers, Golam - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 09/05/07, Golam Mortuza Hossain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As it could be a major upgrade for Probhat layout, it would be nice if people post their other concerns/comments/usability issues that they might have!! If possible think about the dot / fullstop / period symbol; to get this either go to numeric keypad, or change the layout into English again. -- ভাল থাকেন mak --- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 5/8/07, mak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 09/05/07, Golam Mortuza Hossain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As it could be a major upgrade for Probhat layout, it would be nice if people post their other concerns/comments/usability issues that they might have!! If possible think about the dot / fullstop / period symbol; to get this either go to numeric keypad, or change the layout into English again. I would say | (vertical bar) is the more intuitive daanri symbol, but then we'll have to find something for double-daanri. Here's another idea that may or may not be worth pursuing: X has (or at least had) this concept of groups -- in fact what used to happen when you switched a layout was you moved to a new group. (I'm speaking in the past tense because there has been some restructuring with the Xorg move and I'm not sure if this has changed). The interesting thing was that even though a single keystroke could only emit one character, it could also change the group. I used this feature to fake a finite state machine and created a modified probhat layout that had the same key bound to different code points depending on context. So, for example, vowel keys like u would be bound to উ in state 1 and ু in state 2. Pressing any consonant key would change the state to 2. Pressing any vowel key would change to state 1, etc. The advantage of this is that (1) it's more intuitive and (2) frees up more keys. I gave up on using this after moving to Xorg because my old layout changing commands didn't work any more and I couldn't figure out how to fix it. I'm not sure if it's at all possible now, but if it is and if others are interested, this could be the basis of an alternative layout. -Deepayan - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 5/8/07, Omi Azad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jamil Ahmed wrote: Yes, we can use [`] and [\], both without pressing shift key. :-)) If you are thinking for [\] then I suggest \ = ZWNJ :) Agreed. -Deepayan - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 11:14 -0700, Deepayan Sarkar wrote: Hope that helps. Yeah, it helped. Thank you for this. Why don't you write a good Bangla primer on these things and related matters? Can you suggest me a bit more documentation on Unicode and Bangla, not very technical though, I am no developer. Not those on the unicode-org site. Is there any? Good but simple and short? Why don't you write one in Bangla? - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 14:43 -0400, Golam Mortuza Hossain wrote: Since, usability is the main issue, I also agree with Deepayan on relocation of 'hasant'. [ \ ] intuitaviely resembles more like actual hasanta than current [ / ]. This point has occurred to me too, time and again. If [\] does anything, that should be 'hasanta'. But there is a problem. While typing, all the more used things should always be within the three main rows. Use of 'hasanta' is not at all that common in modern Bangla, but the other job that is done by [/] now is conjoining, and that is pretty common, almost once every word in average, or even more than that. And moving just the little finger of the right hand helps in keeping up the speed, that will not be true for [\], every time for a conjoined letter right palm will get physically moved, when the bases of both the palms are fixed on the table, that is the natural position of the palms, and the healthy one for typing for long periods of time (ergonomic too). By just stretching the right little finger you cannot get [\]. You have to move it. This is true for both the keyboards I use, the TVS-Gold (it is a quite reputed one) and even the cramped keyboard of the Acer Aspire 3002 laptop. So, I think it will be true for any keyboard. This speed thing is so very important for the heavy bulk Bangla writers. So, I think, in no way it will be prudent at all to give the conjoining function to the [\] key. -1 - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
das wrote: On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 14:43 -0400, Golam Mortuza Hossain wrote: Since, usability is the main issue, I also agree with Deepayan on relocation of 'hasant'. [ \ ] intuitaviely resembles more like actual hasanta than current [ / ]. This point has occurred to me too, time and again. If [\] does anything, that should be 'hasanta'. But there is a problem. While typing, all the more used things should always be within the three main rows. Use of 'hasanta' is not at all that common in modern Bangla, but the other job that is done by [/] now is conjoining, and that is pretty common, almost once every word in average, or even more than that. And moving just the little finger of the right hand helps in keeping up the speed, that will not be true for [\], every time for a conjoined letter right palm will get physically moved, when the bases of both the palms are fixed on the table, that is the natural position of the palms, and the healthy one for typing for long periods of time (ergonomic too). By just stretching the right little finger you cannot get [\]. You have to move it. This is true for both the keyboards I use, the TVS-Gold (it is a quite reputed one) and even the cramped keyboard of the Acer Aspire 3002 laptop. So, I think it will be true for any keyboard. This speed thing is so very important for the heavy bulk Bangla writers. So, I think, in no way it will be prudent at all to give the conjoining function to the [\] key. I absolutely support Dipankarda's views here about the hasanta. Moving it to \ is an inconvenient way of writing conjuncts. Secondly, about DS' query regarding (in)frequent usage of ZWJ: Sayam's blog entry regarding the matter is pretty much conclusive http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings/2007/04/09/ra-japhala-in-bengali-bn-and-unicode-50/ Unicode rules prescribe the usage of ZWJ (and not ZWNJ) for writing ra-japhala. quote-from-blog/book ” …Unicode Standard adopts the convention of placing the character U+200D ZWJ immediately after the ra to obtain the ra-yaphaala…” /quote-from-blog/book Since ZWNJ is also used by Uniscribe's older versions perhaps the following scheme can be adopted to keep both on non-shift keys: [`] ZWJ [\] ZWNJ regards Runa - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 15:18 +0600, Jamil Ahmed wrote: [ `] = ZWNJ [~] = ZWJ +1 (Can't remember a single instance when needed it while writing any Bangla text) - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
[ `] = ZWNJ [~] = ZWJ ?? On 4/29/07, S M Mahbub Murshed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with Omi Bhai. I raised this issue earlier and DS (IFAIR) argued that we should stick to the standard. S M Mahbub Murshed - Original Message From: Omi Azad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 4:46:52 AM Subject: Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat I think we need ZWNJ more than ZWJ. Whenever we want to de-activate the Hasanta, we need to press ZWNJ and we need ZWJ only for RaJaphola. So ZWNJ should come without pressing Shift key where ever the position is. On 4/28/07, Jamil Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/26/07, Sayamindu Dasgupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/26/07, Runa B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Golam Mortuza Hossain wrote: Since we are discussing on the subject of keyboards, I think it might be a nice time to propose a change in Probhat. The ZWNJ character is mapped to -, and this is, IMHO, not a nice thing(tm). +1. Yeah!! This is spot-on. I also agree with Murshed. Both - and + should be kept as it is. My suggestion would be to use [ `] = ZWJ [^] = ZWNJ how about [ `] = ZWJ [~] = ZWNJ and instead of , [^] accommodates ঞ,. +1 +1 If no body objects, then we can submit patch against x.org? Best, `Jamil - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core -- Omi Azad Contributor Bangla Computing and Localization Projects: Ankur: http://www.ankurbangla.org Ekushey: http://www.ekushey.org - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 4/26/07, Sayamindu Dasgupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/26/07, Runa B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Golam Mortuza Hossain wrote: Since we are discussing on the subject of keyboards, I think it might be a nice time to propose a change in Probhat. The ZWNJ character is mapped to -, and this is, IMHO, not a nice thing(tm). +1. Yeah!! This is spot-on. I also agree with Murshed. Both - and + should be kept as it is. My suggestion would be to use [ `] = ZWJ [^] = ZWNJ how about [ `] = ZWJ [~] = ZWNJ and instead of , [^] accommodates ঞ,. +1 +1 If no body objects, then we can submit patch against x.org? Best, `Jamil - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
I agree with Omi Bhai. I raised this issue earlier and DS (IFAIR) argued that we should stick to the standard. S M Mahbub Murshed - Original Message From: Omi Azad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 4:46:52 AM Subject: Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat I think we need ZWNJ more than ZWJ. Whenever we want to de-activate the Hasanta, we need to press ZWNJ and we need ZWJ only for RaJaphola. So ZWNJ should come without pressing Shift key where ever the position is. On 4/28/07, Jamil Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/26/07, Sayamindu Dasgupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/26/07, Runa B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Golam Mortuza Hossain wrote: Since we are discussing on the subject of keyboards, I think it might be a nice time to propose a change in Probhat. The ZWNJ character is mapped to -, and this is, IMHO, not a nice thing(tm). +1. Yeah!! This is spot-on. I also agree with Murshed. Both - and + should be kept as it is. My suggestion would be to use [ `] = ZWJ [^] = ZWNJ how about [ `] = ZWJ [~] = ZWNJ and instead of , [^] accommodates ঞ,. +1 +1 If no body objects, then we can submit patch against x.org? Best, `Jamil - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core -- Omi Azad Contributor Bangla Computing and Localization Projects: Ankur: http://www.ankurbangla.org Ekushey: http://www.ekushey.org - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
[Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
Hello all, Since we are discussing on the subject of keyboards, I think it might be a nice time to propose a change in Probhat. The ZWNJ character is mapped to -, and this is, IMHO, not a nice thing(tm). It is extremely painful to constantly keep switching back and forth between US and Probhat just to type a -. This is even more painful in laptops because the numpad (alternative location of -) is not always easily activated in a laptop keyboard. My proposal would be to map ZWNJ to _ instead, since it is very infrequently used in Bangla. However, I am open to suggestions, and would be glad to hear from others on other possible assignments as well. Thanks and have a nice day, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
How'bout ` character? Its not used frequently. Similar issue can be raised for ZWJ as well. S M Mahbub Murshed - Original Message From: Sayamindu Dasgupta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:00:54 PM Subject: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat Hello all, Since we are discussing on the subject of keyboards, I think it might be a nice time to propose a change in Probhat. The ZWNJ character is mapped to -, and this is, IMHO, not a nice thing(tm). It is extremely painful to constantly keep switching back and forth between US and Probhat just to type a -. This is even more painful in laptops because the numpad (alternative location of -) is not always easily activated in a laptop keyboard. My proposal would be to map ZWNJ to _ instead, since it is very infrequently used in Bangla. However, I am open to suggestions, and would be glad to hear from others on other possible assignments as well. Thanks and have a nice day, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On 4/25/07, Deepayan Sarkar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ZWJ is no longer of any use (it was only used for khanda ta; Bengali doesn't have the concept of half-consonants, no matter what some people think). It should be removed if it was there. It seems, I can't write র্য (RA-Japhala) without using ZWJ in my feisty box. Can someone shed some light on latest convention for Reph-Ra-Japhala typing issue? Thanks in advance.. Cheers, Golam - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] [Proposal] Changing the assignment of ZWNJ in Probhat
On Wed, 2007-04-25 at 19:49 -0400, Golam Mortuza Hossain wrote: It seems, I can't write র্য (RA-Japhala) without using ZWJ in my feisty box. Can someone shed some light on latest convention for Reph-Ra-Japhala typing issue? র্য is written with 'r' + '-' + '/' + 'Z' র্য is written with 'r' + '+' + '/' + 'Z' র্য is written with 'r' + '/' + 'Z' [ Z is shift-z here in all the three cases] At least how it works on my Feisty Laptop and Desktop. Now, for the original point of the '-' (dash). This very syntax in Bangla, like some other ones, is a direct child of the Western syntax. And we use it exactly the way the Western syntax is used, even the concept of 'en' and 'em' dash are inherited from the West almost in a verbatim manner. So, then, the dash, there on the keyboard, does exactly that thing in Bangla what it was kept there for to do on the QWERTY keyboard in the first place. And still, we are going to pluck it away from there, and put somewhere else, while all the time the same symbol for the same work sits on the keyboard. Why, does it not seem forced? What are your reactions, Jamil, Runa and others? I am not sure why some friends here on the list want it like that. They must have their reasons. But, I am telling you my point. I really write quite a lot in Bangla. (And this 'quite' here is actually a British understatement, you can get that from www.saltlakesoft.com/dd-ts/bangla, and that is really a very small portion of my Bangla texts.) And if all my friends here decide on the 'displace-dash' project, I would finally have to resort on the same thing that Jamil has done quite a few times for me, that is, tweaking the 'Probhat' file, and de-displacing the dash again into its original place. Those people like me, who have to write really quite a lot, have to use touch typing, and that second lost every time I write a 'dash', after the day, adds up to considerable waste of time, together with the slowing down of the process and disturbing the thought-chain. And if you compare it with the 'non-joiners', how many times do we have to write those crooked conjoint consonants with non-joiners? Does it any way compare with the number of times we write the dash, or its 'em' and 'en' versions, that actually is very easily done with the 'autocorrect' function of the processor, replacing two dashes with an 'en' and three dashes with an 'em'. I think this mail was quite long. But, please take it as a voraciously Bangla writing old man's distress call. --- das - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
