Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-28 Thread John Dillon
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Gavin Andresen gavinandre...@gmail.com wrote: I feel like there is a lot of in the weeds discussion here about theoretical, what-if-this-and-that-happens-in-the-future scenarios. I would just like to point out

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-25 Thread Mark Friedenbach
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 There's no reason the signing can't be done all at once. The wallet app would create and sign three transactions, paying avg-std.D, avg, and avg+std.D fee. It just waits to broadcast the latter two until it has to. On 10/25/13 5:02 AM, Andreas

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-25 Thread Andreas Petersson
There's no reason the signing can't be done all at once. The wallet app would create and sign three transactions, paying avg-std.D, avg, and avg+std.D fee. It just waits to broadcast the latter two until it has to. i see several reasons why this is problematic. So how would that work in a

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-25 Thread Peter Todd
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 02:02:35PM +0200, Andreas Petersson wrote: Worth thinking about the whole ecosystem of wallets involved; they all have to handle double-spends gracefully to make tx replacement of any kind user friendly. We should try to give people a heads up that this is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-25 Thread Tamas Blummer
Two thoughts: 1. Please keep it simple, miner will override it either. 2. If block construction algorithm compares alternate chains and not individual transactions, then receiver can bump up the fee by spending the unconfirmed output again with higher fee, no need for replacement in the

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-25 Thread Jeremy Spilman
Do you think we're at the point where wallets have to be able to actively bid the fee using replacement due to block contention? I think a fee estimation API is just a data point. Depending on the properties of the estimator, and how that's presented in the UI, it could serve to either

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-25 Thread Peter Todd
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 12:35:34PM -0700, Jeremy Spilman wrote: Do you think we're at the point where wallets have to be able to actively bid the fee using replacement due to block contention? If Bitcoin continues to grow we probably will be at some as-yet-unknown point in the future. I think

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-25 Thread Gavin Andresen
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 5:51 PM, Jeremy Spilman jer...@taplink.co wrote: ** Gavin, can you confirm the best place to read up on the discuss fee estimation changes for v0.9? The blog post is the best place for high-level overview. The (closed for now, but it will come back) pull request is

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-24 Thread Mike Hearn
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: Quick thought on how to make blockchain-based fee estimates work better in the context of out-of-band mining contracts: have miners advertise in their coinbase's what fees were actually paid, as opposed to appear to have

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-24 Thread Peter Todd
On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 04:46:41PM +0200, Mike Hearn wrote: Well, miners are all supposed to be more or less equivalent - modulo differences in tx acceptance policies - so I'd hope that having out of bad fee mechanisms yet still broadcasting the TX isn't that common. If it was broadcasted, it

Re: [Bitcoin-development] Making fee estimation better

2013-10-24 Thread Gavin Andresen
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Peter Todd p...@petertodd.org wrote: Eligius has contracts to do transaction mining, and it's currently 10% of the hashing power. Yes, and I asked Luke what percentage of that 10% is OOB fee payments, and the answer is a small percentage. So: there are